FlyTheNest

SpinningHugo

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Pleased to say that I have never voted for Shawcroft. A record I fully intend to maintain

I bet Ken, Jackie and George have though.

SpinningHugo

Probation is the most ludicrous idea so far, though Labour talked about "contestability" a bit, but didn't do it. Same as they did with Prison Service prisons, likely just saw it as a way of making the public sector improve. But do that too much and you'll end up having to follow through....

SpinningHugo

@Sh Let's just stick to what I said about the same people doing the same jobs i.e. services. That's outsourcing. And it has nothing to do with the production of goods which then are used by the public sector. 1. I am not sure what economic reason you have (or could have) for thinking outsourcing go...

SpinningHugo

Very amusing https://evolvepolitics.com/chairman-of-bankrupt-carillion-firm-was-a-corporate-responsibility-advisor-to-theresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; especially when you look at the details https://www.ft.com/content/8f14f694-faab-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a" on...

SpinningHugo

Always amusing to see politics as it really is revealed https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/head-labour-disciplinary-panel-ousted-11861188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; here is who Ms Shawcroft is, for those who like a good laugh https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...

SpinningHugo

@Sh Let's just stick to what I said about the same people doing the same jobs i.e. services. That's outsourcing. And it has nothing to do with the production of goods which then are used by the public sector. 1. I am not sure what economic reason you have (or could have) for thinking outsourcing go...

SpinningHugo

Arguments against outsourcing: 1. Loss of control 2. Paying the same money over inevitably leads to a lower paid workforce and/or lower numbers employed. Outsourcing company profits have to come from somewhere. 3. Leads to the pretence that there are fewer people working in the public sector than a...

SpinningHugo

1. Companies going bust is essential to how free market competition is supposed to work. We really do want some companies to go into insolvency and disappear. 2. At a very simple level, the reason that Carillion has gone bust is that it has been making losses on the services that it has been providi...

SpinningHugo

Miliband has barely fought for it from the backbenches. He deserves huge credit for opposing a referendum in 2015 but he's been far too worried immigration. I think he thinks he did his bit, and it is enough to post the occassional amusing thing on twitter. I suspect he also blames himself. Rightly...

SpinningHugo

Put another way, if the party were now being led by Ed Miliband, would the approach to Brexit have been the same? Obviously not. But then, it isn't that kind of party now, at all. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/jeremy-corbyn-has-big-majority-labour-s-nec-limits-his-power-rem...

SpinningHugo

@SH https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration Of course, but that doesn't remotely support the claim that "other EU states can c...

SpinningHugo

howsillyofme1 wrote:.

It would be really nice though if they actually engaged with people

Requiring others to read and comment on long screeds of stuff about how there is no such thing as the single market and so on, seems to place too heavy a burden on other board users.

SpinningHugo

So, we proceed as though we are leaving. I do not accept that the timescales laid out for leaving are inflexible. There is time. and whay is the basis for this belief? We identify which aspects of the EU people actually want to leave. The outcome will probably be that people want some control on fr...

SpinningHugo

PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

I leave it to you to welcome the new, belated, and too-late-to-be-of-any-use member of the Ed Miliband fan-club.

These things are, of course, relative. I had no problem voting for an Ed Miliband led party. It was, then, a social democratic party in the European tradition.

SpinningHugo

No it's to be smart. Something you obviously can't understand! Depends what you mean by smart. Electorally it is great. A brilliant strategy. Just disastrous for the UK, and especially the poorest. Lots of wubble about a "jobs first Brexit" opposing "Tory Hard Brexit" maximising...

SpinningHugo

Put another way, if the party were now being led by Ed Miliband, would the approach to Brexit have been the same? Obviously not. But then, it isn't that kind of party now, at all. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/jeremy-corbyn-has-big-majority-labour-s-nec-limits-his-power-rema...

SpinningHugo

No it's to be smart. Something you obviously can't understand! Depends what you mean by smart. Electorally it is great. A brilliant strategy. Just disastrous for the UK, and especially the poorest. Lots of wubble about a "jobs first Brexit" opposing "Tory Hard Brexit" maximising...

SpinningHugo

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour are surely hoping here that the government is forced by events into making such an unpalatable announcement first?
Precisely

ie Labour's policy is to be fractionally more Remainy than the Tories.

That is it.

Pathetic hardly covers it.

SpinningHugo

Ooof, the old soft left have been routed in the NEC elections. It is a new party. Some more MPs bound to quit now.

SpinningHugo

Giles Fraser, Deborah Orr, Nicholas Lezard and Paul Mason binned by the Graun.

Any others?

I rarely read the columnists nowadays, almost uniformly terrible.

SpinningHugo

Morning HSOM1 The clear divide on Brexit should now IMHO be between those that support Hard Brexit and the rest, being Soft Brexit and all shades of Remain. This really doesn't suit the Hard Brexit end of the Tories, the Progress bit of Labour or the Lib Dems does it? And they will try and cause tr...

SpinningHugo

What's it going to be then, eh? In the single market or out? Are we with those Labour MP's calling for clarity or are we sitting on the fence hoping for the best? Because I'll not vote Labour at the next GE if this nonsense continues. And I won't be alone. Vote Green. Perfectly acceptable on both t...

SpinningHugo

The key word in Smith's quoted comment may be "effectively", and there is a good chance Corbyn may agree. I don't agree as Corbyn seems to be going out of his way to deny this as an option. Stupidity? Because he is a longstanding Lexiteer? I prefer the latter explanation. One thing we do ...

SpinningHugo

He then made sure we were reminded that the Tories are in charge and Labour will respond when they present their proposals, something such a divided party is clearly a long way from doing. Hardly "government in waiting", is it? Then again, I'd be very happy for them to drop that talk, loo...

SpinningHugo

He then made sure we were reminded that the Tories are in charge and Labour will respond when they present their proposals, something such a divided party is clearly a long way from doing. Hardly "government in waiting", is it? Then again, I'd be very happy for them to drop that talk, loo...

SpinningHugo

He then made sure we were reminded that the Tories are in charge and Labour will respond when they present their proposals, something such a divided party is clearly a long way from doing. Hardly "government in waiting", is it? Then again, I'd be very happy for them to drop that talk, loo...

SpinningHugo

The EU would be delighted to have things as similar to now as possible. Change is major hassle. There are different customs unions already. The one with San Marino includes agricultural products. The ones with Turkey and Andorra don't. One with the UK would include them. That wouldn't have the exac...

SpinningHugo

This is the funniest thing I've read in ages. Thank you ;-) And so we obtain all the benefits of the single market and customs union without being in the single market and customs union how? By creating an identical thing on the self same terms with all the members of the single market and customs ...

SpinningHugo

Stuff like this from Corbyn on the single market is just flatly untrue, as we all know,and so I suppose it is something that Starmer hasn't (yet) sunk this low

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo

https://www.channel4.com/news/keir-starmer-benefits-of-the-single-market-are-crucial "Labour’s shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer discusses whether staying in the single market should be a long-term option for Labour." (Channel 4 interview with Krishnan Guru-Murthy) Good to hear him...

SpinningHugo

I don't think any debate about private outsourcing of public services in the UK would be complete without looking at water. It would be at the top of my list, way before trains (I'd put buses before trains as well) in terms of looking at to renationalise: http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/09/02/wha...

SpinningHugo

Critics of outsourcing can't have it both ways. "Carillon going bust shows outsourcing doesn't work." "Virgins profits shows outsourcing doesn't work." Carillon will almost certainly go into a CVA. The shareholders will lose. Just like with Railtrack. Not a problem unless you're...

SpinningHugo

Just as the 1950-70 were dogmatic nationalizing years, we are now in the 'free market delivers all' dogma - my standard view is that we are handing massive amounts of taxpayer money to private companies (many paying no tax in the UK) of foreign Governments because of this dogma The question is do t...

SpinningHugo

citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Critics of outsourcing can't have it both ways.
Critics and non-critics aren't getting anything but hosed.

The laughter never stops.

SpinningHugo

Critics of outsourcing can't have it both ways. "Carillon going bust shows outsourcing doesn't work." "Virgins profits shows outsourcing doesn't work." Carillon will almost certainly go into a CVA. The shareholders will lose. Just like with Railtrack. Not a problem unless you're ...

SpinningHugo

On a more positive note, I'm delighted with the appointment of a Minister for Buses. One thing that irritates me with rail is the delays with getting smart ticketing going across the network. The DfT (who've had big departmental cost cuts) ought to have got this done yonks ago. I don't know how har...

SpinningHugo

I may have said it before, but it bears repeating. The fatuous "focus on the ends" stuff is exactly the rhetorical device Corbyn uses on foreign policy. "What would you do about Syria and the butcher Assad?" "I favour peace and a political solution." We can all agree th...

SpinningHugo

I accept that most party members would like that to be the ultimate destination, they may not all agree on the best way of trying to get there however. I don't understand that either. Sounds like the usual woolly "focus in the ends" or ""we want no tariff barriers" balls MD...

SpinningHugo

The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS Brexit won't force any govt to destroy the NHS afterwards, either, and I'm getting sick of seeing remainers say it will as if that's a clinching argument, it's Project Fear all over again and it didn't work v...

SpinningHugo

I could go back to the Lib-Dems. I hear they're hiring. Most won't though. I agree with this https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/can-labour-keep-its-brexit-balancing-act" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Labour can behave as badly as they like, most don't c...

SpinningHugo

Curious isn't it? We who wish to be European and part of something larger than petty national concerns now have Nigel Farage speaking for us more than Jeremy Corbyn. In their desperation to keep hold of one vote base I fear Labour are losing another. I certainly won't vote for them again if they ke...

SpinningHugo

As so often Norman Geras got it right when discussing whether opposing Israel was necessarily anti-Semitic. (You only need to read the first few paragraphs). http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2009/04/i-guess-it-doesnt-matter-any-more.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...

SpinningHugo

The Tory tactic for the next election becoming clear. 1. Animals. This should not be underestimated. Foxes and ivory cost them. Gove with his plastics announcements is trying to reposition them on the environment. 2. Universities. Shifting the centrist Greening and Johnson to replace them with right...

SpinningHugo

To be fair to them PF they are looking at it from their point of view that sees a second referendum as being a way to stop Brexit.....I cannot be too pissed off with them because of that The problem then comes down to what a second referendum will look like and what could happen....Farage is not st...

SpinningHugo

As so often Norman Geras got it right when discussing whether opposing Israel was necessarily anti-Semitic. (You only need to read the first few paragraphs).

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/20 ... -more.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Labour is also expected to take the opportunity to bring on some of the MPs who joined the Commons in 2017, such as Laura Pidcock and Dan Carden.
Oh Christ.
Forget her political positioning just for a moment, Pidcock is clearly very talented.

Nah.

SpinningHugo

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Is that it?

Ruth Smeeth?

And which characteristic of Ruth Smeeth are you focusing on to suggest she lacks credibility on this question?

SpinningHugo

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/88558/jewish-group-urges-labour-sack-chris-williamson In happier days https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "I absolutely did not and never would bla...

SpinningHugo

The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/chris-williamson-quits-labour-frontbench-after-double-council-tax-call" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and bein...

SpinningHugo

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/88558/jewish-group-urges-labour-sack-chris-williamson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In happier days https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544" onclick="window.open(this.href);retu...

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