FlyTheNest

SpinningHugo

I've yet to read anything convincing from anyone about what Labour have wrong in their policies, leader or manifesto in 2015. Well I did write quite extensively about what was wrong with Labour's policy prescriptions on here. I know most (all) will have disagreed but we would have done better in Nu...

SpinningHugo

An entire set of arguments that are, I am afraid, so mind numbingly bad as to be embarrassing. Unless of course you are simply trolling the argument for fun, in which case Bravo. I would stick to political punditry if I were you. The idea you hold that it is wrong to limit the power of the state by...

SpinningHugo

Eurosceptic David Davis could oppose government on human rights reform Tory MP’s comments show growing backbench rebellion over plan that could lead to withdrawal from European court of human rights Lets hope enough of them see common sense and decency over this dangerously undemocratic proposal, t...

SpinningHugo

Eurosceptic David Davis could oppose government on human rights reform Tory MP’s comments show growing backbench rebellion over plan that could lead to withdrawal from European court of human rights Lets hope enough of them see common sense and decency over this dangerously undemocratic proposal, t...

SpinningHugo

Going to full fat Blairism at this point points, if nothing else, to poor judgement (which could be a recurring thing if these rumours have any truth in them) No, there doesn't seem to be any outstanding candidate right now - which probably means Burnham as the "least bad" option but hopi...

SpinningHugo

Not exactly helpful. Who do you think would bring in votes from a wider section of the population? What do you think of Tristram Hunt? (i) A woman. (ii) Hunt is a joke candidate. A woman for the sake of being a woman would be a disaster. Why is Hunt a joke? We just lost a load of votes to Ukip. Goi...

SpinningHugo

Not exactly helpful. Who do you think would bring in votes from a wider section of the population? What do you think of Tristram Hunt? (i) A woman. (ii) Hunt is a joke candidate. Do you have any particular woman\en in mind? Or do you mean Yvette Cooper - who won't be getting my vote, for the record...

SpinningHugo

I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?: And what a disaster that was. He won with keynote policies of (a) a graduate tax to replace fees and (b) a living wage Only faint echoes of (b) were retained once he won. And by ...

SpinningHugo

I also think Burnham and Cooper share a heavy responsibility for the defeat.

It was their job as senior people to go to Miliband at the latest a year ago and say they would resign unless he went. The frontbench were cowards.

SpinningHugo

I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?: And what a disaster that was. He won with keynote policies of (a) a graduate tax to replace fees and (b) a living wage Only faint echoes of (b) were retained once he won. And by ...

SpinningHugo

Still hoping that Stella Creasy can be persuaded to stand, tbh. And I do note that Liz Kendall refused to say yesterday that the solution to all Labour's problems was to return to the Blairite comfort zone (despite being bludgeoned to by Brillo Pad) So she might be worth watching, too...... I don't...

SpinningHugo

@SpinningHugo You ask "How do we persuade those who voted Tory to vote for us, who is the best person to do that?" The obvious answer to your question is that the best person to do that is a Tory. You might want to give that some thought. I don't agree. If the last 5 years didn't show you...

SpinningHugo

A few quick observations. 1) The vote for Labour did not collapse – it went up by 1.5% and the Conservatives vote went up by 0.5% 2) The number of votes needed per seat for Conservatives and Labour changed. Labour used to need less votes per seat and now it needs more. 3) The real game changers wer...

SpinningHugo

The BBC charter renewal comes up in 2016.

The BBC, like the Human Rights Act, will be gone by 2020.

As I have said before, if we had managed to elect a government that proposed to do nothing at all, it would have been better than what we are going to get.

SpinningHugo

And UKIP took 7,951 That is where Labour's problem is - if only you and they would realise it. Meanwhile, by hurling abuse at Greens, you are risking any chance of a future where we fight together to get rid of the Tories. Which is indeed an act of selfish, self important, sheer bloody don't-give-a...

SpinningHugo

Message for Tory Ukip Voters.jpg Someone like Eoin Clarke has his heart in the right place, but he is basically a fool. If you want to win back the 15m people who voted for other parties, you don't start by insulting them. This is where you and your man are making a big mistake Ed didn't lose becau...

SpinningHugo

Message for Tory Ukip Voters.jpg Someone like Eoin Clarke has his heart in the right place, but he is basically a fool. If you want to win back the 15m people who voted for other parties, you don't start by insulting them. You have to allow for the anger. I've never seen or heard our normally nonde...

SpinningHugo

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Message for Tory Ukip Voters.jpg

Someone like Eoin Clarke has his heart in the right place, but he is basically a fool.

If you want to win back the 15m people who voted for other parties, you don't start by insulting them.

SpinningHugo

First he has to create a British Bill of rights..... Good luck agreeing that. Then he has to get it through the commons, good luck with that. There are still a few sensible Tories who will vote that down. Are you sure about that? For something this barking, probably. The Tories have a working major...

SpinningHugo

, the "Scary Scots will rob you" thing was a BIG factor in this "surprise" result. 1. And guess who I blame for that bullshit lie being credible? With a leader perceived as being able to stand up to Sottish sectional interests, it would never have had any traction in the first p...

SpinningHugo

Ok, the wing of the party I belong to has had someone express the point more clearly than me on the policy mix "policies, even if individually popular, that, taken together, send us too far left." I can't see this really. I think the rail policy was OK, but if it had proposed renationaliz...

SpinningHugo

Toby Helm ‏@tobyhelm 2m2 minutes ago Tony Blair tells Labour: return to the centre ground to win again http://gu.com/p/48979 Inevitable I suppose. How does he define the centre ground? I don't think Miliband was particularly left wing. Cameron is on the fringe of right wing lunacy. I also think Bla...

SpinningHugo

Ok, the wing of the party I belong to has had someone express the point more clearly than me on the policy mix "policies, even if individually popular, that, taken together, send us too far left." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/tony-blair-what-labour-must-do-next-elec...

SpinningHugo

TechnicalEphemera -I don't agree on Progress, no. -Danczuk is not a useful MP, no. -Jones is an amusing polemicist, but not someone with any judgement whatsoever. He panders to our prejudices. He should not be taken seriously. If you are asking me to choose between Danczuk and Jones, I choose neithe...

SpinningHugo

@ SpinningHugo Winning to what end, though? Some politicians are career politicians. Some politicians have convictions which lead them to make their career in politics. There's a world of difference. The first 'end' is keeping the Tories out. Even if we had a government that did nothing at all for ...

SpinningHugo

Oh, and this is important.

You cannot shift the UK left from opposition. You can do it in government.

SpinningHugo

@ SpinningHugo Winning to what end, though? Some politicians are career politicians. Some politicians have convictions which lead them to make their career in politics. There's a world of difference. The first 'end' is keeping the Tories out. Even if we had a government that did nothing at all for ...

SpinningHugo

You don't think the Tories wouldn't have attacked David Miliband relentlessly over his links to Iraq and rendition? Of course they would. But mine was statement of fact. We elected the leader they wanted us to, and not the one they feared. It's not a fact, it's a straw man argument. It's meaningles...

SpinningHugo

RobertSnozers wrote: You don't think the Tories wouldn't have attacked David Miliband relentlessly over his links to Iraq and rendition?

Of course they would.

But mine was statement of fact. We elected the leader they wanted us to, and not the one they feared.

SpinningHugo

The single most significant criterion for leader we should use is "Who do the Tories not want us to elect?" and if that points at a 'Blairite', suck it up. Out of interest Hugo who do you think that would be? Well, this much I think will get uniform agreement. I would prefer someone untai...

SpinningHugo

The single most significant criterion for leader we should use is

"Who do the Tories not want us to elect?"

and if that points at a 'Blairite', suck it up.

SpinningHugo

Apart from 2010 (29.1%) Labour's vote share in this election (30.5%) was the lowest since 1922.

We needed a bigger tent people.

We need to realise that the entire Miliband project was a disastrous mistake.

SpinningHugo

Survation on what went wrong

http://survation.com/snatching-defeat-f ... f-victory/

SpinningHugo

SH the main driver was the failure to address the Labour overspending caused the crash myth early and repelling often. I realise in a partisan media environment that this was hard but that careless and profligate badge stuck. And the responsibility for that primarily lies with? Re-read http://www.t...

SpinningHugo

The advantages the Labour opposition had are enormous. They include (i) The collapse off the Liberal Democrats. Soon after the 2010 General Election, the Liberal Democrat vote more than halved. In 2010 the Liberal Democrats received 23% of the vote. In 2015 only 8% .The proximate cause of this chang...

SpinningHugo

By 2020 you will have to be 63 years old to have voted for a Labour leader who won, who wasn't Tony Blair.

We need to win. Criticising the electorate or the press is pointless.

SpinningHugo

I think the polls are wrong because the pollsters don't know what they are doing. I think they adjust samples using snake oil. Internet polling and phone polling seem equally useless. The entire industry is finished this morning. Their convergence on a uniformly wrong result looks deeply suspicious...

SpinningHugo

Banks, bookies, estate agents, seeing their share price rallying.

SpinningHugo

So Anatoly and Hugo - what's a realistic outlook for maximising any potential advantage of the current situation (slimness of Tory majority, etc), while minimising any long-term irreverisble (eg: Brexit) damage of the Tory/SNP partnership made in hell. I am afraid I only have downsides. First the T...

SpinningHugo

AngryAsWell wrote:
yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.

It just feels too raw just now.
Agree, I don't want a different leader.

I do. I think even Miliband will now accept that that is what we need.

SpinningHugo

Balls is partly to blame for what has happened, though. As he may realise himself now. There is another person with considerably more responsibility. Well, unsurprisingly that may be an area where we do not entirely agree...... I will just point out for now that Miliband had his best moments when h...

SpinningHugo

What is the average age of Tory MPs. Any oldsters in marginals?

Byelections may become interesting.

SpinningHugo

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Labour lost the Gower by 27 votes, TUSC got something like 120.

Well done. As for Ed Balls, I give up, I really do.
Balls is partly to blame for what has happened, though. As he may realise himself now.

There is another person with considerably more responsibility.

SpinningHugo

I am very upset about Balls.

SpinningHugo

You could have replayed Livingstone from 92 alongside his line from 2015. The same analysis. Wrong then, wrong now.

SpinningHugo

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
I think we lost because of the SNP factor.

.

I think it is very important that this view doesn't take hold (LIvingstone peddling it now).

Add on every Scottish seat, and we still lose.

We needed a bigger tent. not an even smaller one than those who wanted a break from Blair voted for in 2010.

SpinningHugo

So, if EdM resigns, who do you want to take over ? Personally I'm not sure there is anybody in the Shadow Cab that I'd vote for. I would vote for Dan Jarvis though. We needed 30+ seats that went Tory. We didn't get them because of the leader and the political strategy adopted. Charlie Whelan, and o...

SpinningHugo

Goodnight.

Let us hope they are short of 323. Not even looking good for that.

SpinningHugo

howsillyofme1 wrote:Nothing Labour could have done really

I do not agree.

SpinningHugo

If Galloway and Farage lose I'll be cheered a bit.

Not much though.

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