FlyTheNest

Atos complaints.

The first thing you have to do is write or email Atos Customer Relations. According to their policy, they must acknowledge your complaint within 2 working days of receipt.
They frequently don't, so you have to repeat the exercise; eventually you will get a letter which is likely to spectacularly miss the point, with information on how to "escalate" your complaint to the Independent Tier (sic).

Sometimes they will offer a small payment, £50 or so, to "settle" the complaint, saying this is a "consolatory payment" for "inconvenience".
They will not admit that they have done anything wrong.

Sometimes they will ask the Customer Relations Medical Adviser to review WCAs and reports of WCAs. They will not tell you they are doing this.
Whatever he/she says, even if the verdict is damning, they are not likely to show you the CRMA report unless you insist they do.

The IT is based at Atos Customer Relations HQ in Leeds. The Convenor to the IT is an Atos member of staff, who writes to you every month or so explaining why you have had no response to your query. The Atos Convenor is responsible for collating your files for submission to the IT.

The IT is responsible for judging how your complaint has been handled - nothing else.
If the IT thinks that your complaint involves anything "medical" it will appoint an Independent Medical Adviser to review the WCA reports.
It is very unlikely that the Convenor will supply all the relevant documents.

Eventually, you will receive the judgement of the IT - it will say whether they have found Atos to be fully or partially supported in its' handling of the complaint.
After you get this, it's back to Atos Customer Relations to find out what they intend to do about it. Usually it's a vague apology.

Atos convenes and administers the IT.
Atos hosts the IT.
Atos appoints the members of the IT and we are not allowed to know who they are.
Atos appoints the IT who appoints any further examiners.
Atos should act on the IT's findings, but doesn't a lot of the time.

My case -

I had a WCA in March 2011 which placed me in the WRAG. I was too ill to bother appealing at the time. Allocation to WRAG meant, at the time, at least 6 months of being looked after by a Jobcentre adviser with a series of 6 work-focused interviews.
None of this happened.

Exactly 12 weeks later, another ESA50 arrived. It was due for return by 2nd,August.
I sent it recorded delivery, with 7 pages of original medical documents, and a letter asking for my new address to be recorded.
An Atos HCP reviewed my case on 26th.July with zero evidence - he referred me for an assessment with a neurological specialist. I have no neuropathology.

Atos did not return my documents, despite repeated telephone and written requests.
The day before the WCA, I got a phone call from Atos who said they could not find my file and the WCA would have to be rebooked.

I made a formal complaint via email on 19th November 2011.
No response within deadline. I emailed again.
My files were found, and an Atos Customer Relations person said she would send my documents to me. She sent them to the wrong address, with a page missing - which contained my full diagnosis, treatment, investigations, prognosis, and future clinical management. Arguably the most important page in the bundle.
To date, that page has not been found.

Appointment letters etc. all went to the wrong address. This went on for months.
I obtained a judgement from the Information Commissioners' Office that Atos was in breach of 2 clauses of the Data Protection Act.

The next WCA was not fit for purpose, and again allocated me to WRAG.
After a few months of arguing with DWP, I got Support Group backdated to March 2011 for 18 months with no need to appeal. Mainly because I know the legislation better than the staff I was dealing with.

The result of all this nonsense is that I was denied my full entitlement of both ESA and DLA for more than a year. In total, it amounted to more than £1,200.

(At this point, I sent my case files to the Independent Case Examiner, whose remit is to deal with complaints against DWP - he does look at Atos' input but does not judge on it)

With this evidence that both WCAs were not satisfactory, the outstanding matter of the earlier complaint, and the ICO judgement, of I complained again, and was told that I would have to apply to the IT - unless I was willing to accept a consolatory payment of £50 to "settle" the complaint.

I applied to the IT in March. I received a letter every month from the Convenor apologising for the delay. The IT eventually dealt with my case in July.
The IT appointed an Independent Medical Adviser to look at the WCAs/reports etc.

The resulting reports, written in September, found -
Atos was partially supported in its' handling of my complaint, but the IT did not specify what was supported and what wasn't;
Atos was not supported in the escalation of my complaint, nor was it supported in the subsequent issues;
Atos failed to supply complete files to the IMA, who was not able to make any judgement on the case as he had no evidence.

The IT report was sent to Atos, who did nothing to address any of it.
The Convenor made no attempt to collate the files properly so that the IMA could scrutinise them. His report was damning, in that he castigated Atos for failing to supply the information necessary for a full investigation.
Atos Customer Relations made no attempt to contact me with an apology or explanation of their behaviour.

I wrote to the head of Customer Relations, who ignored me.
I wrote to his boss, who said she would not consider any further communication while I had an outstanding review with the Independent Case examiner.
I obtained confirmation from the ICE that Atos was not his remit; I told this person that I had an ICO judgement, the findings of the IT, and the IMA report; all of which confirmed that Atos had failed in many areas and that it was not acceptable for Atos to continue to deny all responsibility for what had happened.

This person offered me £200 to settle the complaint, and I was asked to sign a form which would prevent me from pursuing the complaint any further.

I declined this offer - I had been asking since November 2011 for an explanation and an apology; various problems arose subsequently; the investigation and IT review were compromised; the IT/IMA reports were not acted upon; and the senior staff in Customer Relations were avoiding dealing with me on spurious grounds.
I reiterated the substance of the (by now) many complaints, and asked for the umpteenth time for an explanation, an apology, and some action.

That communication was ignored, and I have heard nothing since.

The truth is that Atos has no intention of admitting anything.
They say things like "we are sorry our service to you has fallen short of our usual standards" but they will never admit they have done anything wrong.
They are very quick to offer a payment for inconvenience or worry, but they will never admit that they have not acted within their own charters.

They know perfectly well that to do so will open them up to a slew of official complaints, and they'd rather palm people off with a few quid to shut them up.
I won't deny that £200 would come in very handy - but I will not accept a payoff on their terms, and I will not give up until they have been held accountable.

I am expecting the final review of my case with the ICE in about 3 months time.

The ICE may well have a few things to say regarding Atos, even if he has no power to recommend that they do anything, it will mean that I can pursue my complaint against them with renewed vigour. I intend to make their lives very difficult.


THE GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!

I have it on unimpeachable authority that the office of the Independent Case Examiner will be taking over the (not) Independent Tier at some point this year.

That will mean that they will be able to deal with complaints involving both Atos and DWP in tandem, which is excellent news.

Hi Southern Hawker.

My MP was involved at the beginning - he wrote to Grayling, who wrote back to him.
The MP was very sympathetic, but did not grasp the complexities of the case. Grayling did no investigation into what had happened, and simply parroted the party line in his reply.
Waste of time.

The ESA50 came complete with a letter saying that only original documents would be accepted.
I rang DWP to check - they said that it had to be originals, photocopies were not acceptable as they could be tampered with. That's why I sent the package recorded delivery.

I did not set up a redirection with Royal Mail. No need. I live in a very rural area and the postie knows us all by name. I only moved next door.
Despite all that, I phoned both Atos and DWP with the changed details. I followed up with the same in writing. DWP instructed Atos to change the records, which they always do; their records were up-to-date, but Atos did nothing.
It took 2 official complaints, 5 letters, dozens of phone calls, and five months to get Atos to comply with an order from a government department to change their records. That's the point - and they have never apologised for it.

The complaint went to the ICE because that was what the Chief Operating Officer of DWP told me was the next stage in the process.
The ICE has already made a complaint to the Ombudsman regarding DWPs tardiness/obstruction in providing him with the documents he has repeatedly asked for. I have managed to get copies of my files directly from the BDC, so he has the copies now - he is very interested to find that the papers missing from what DWP gave him are ALL related to appalling decision-making and the handling of my complaint by senior management at both Atos and DWP.

The fact is that I got the correct decision, after a fight, some time ago, with full backdating, long before I decided to involve the ICE.
The reason I am pursuing this is because I refuse to allow these morons to treat me like this.

Atos has a very cavalier attitude to the protection of sensitive data. The ESA50s and medical evidence all goes to a Royal Mail sorting office, where it is opened by ordinary posties, and sent on to the relevant area. When Atos get it, they are supposed to treat it as confidential data with all the protections that implies.
The fact that they have no idea where a file is at any given point, knowing only that it isn't where it's supposed to be, is a clear breach of the DPA.
Then they go on to lose/misplace/misfile/remove arguably the most important document (the one which would convince any qualified professional like me (SRN, RMN, DipN, Dip HE)that the person named was actually quite ill), make no search for it, make no offer to pay for the cost of replacement, fail to inform the examining HCP that this evidence is missing, fail to tell the DWP that this evidence is missing, and describe this as "inconvenience" is simply reprehensible.
Atos insist that DWP are their data controllers, which is true. But as data processors, they have a responsibility to ensure the safe storage, transport, and collation of personal medical data, and they invariably pass any complaints about this back to DWP - even when they know that there is a judgement from the ICO that they are in breach of the DPA.

I want, in writing, an acknowledgement from Atos (and DWP - I'm going to write about that too) that they have made these errors (the data stuff is just a small part of it) and I want a full and frank apology. They have offered me £200 (the latest offer - I daresay it'll go up again) to settle this, previously they offered £50. They want me to go away, and they want to pay me to go away. What they will not do is admit what they've done.

They refuse to admit that they have breached the DPA, despite the ICO judgement.
They refuse to admit that the WCAs were unfit, despite their IMA saying they were.
They refuse to admit that complaints handling was poor, despite the IT saying so.
They have witheld evidence from the HCPs, from me, from DWP, from the ICE, and from their own Independent Tier (sic) and the Independent Medical Adviser.
They must be held accountable for this.

In all of their communications with me, they have not addressed these issues. They simply ignore them. The ICE has asked for all the letters they have sent to me - he is very interested in the wording, especially the letters which offer "consolatory" payments.
It'll be interesting to see what happens next.

The ICE can make certain recommendations regarding DWP, but even if he comments on the behaviour of Atos, as things stand he can't compel them to do anything.
I have every intention of going public with this eventually - and I believe that this is what Atos are worried about. Not that I've told them this, obvs.
I think they have a corporate policy of never admitting anything so that nobody can do anything to seek redress. They are aware that they are partially responsible, thanks to misleading and inaccurate reports, of depriving me of more than £1,000 in due entitlement to ESA and DLA, but as ever they pass this on to DWP who make the decisions.
They will never admit that they control the process throughout - the ESA50 is "scrutinised" by Atos; the nature, timing, and venue of the WCA is decided by Atos; the WCA is conducted by and reported on by Atos; the recommendation regarding group allocation is made by Atos; and if a decision maker is unsure about anything, they get "advice" from the Atos staff working at the BDC.



I will have another assessment at some point in the next few weeks/months, and I will not be treated like this again.
I have incurable and degenerative illness, and I have no capability for work - according to my GP, my consultants, my physio, and my CPN. I have documentation from an Occupational Health consultant from my last job in the NHS which states I should be retired on medical grounds; the Atos examiners at NHS Pensions have retired me on medical grounds.
The Atos examiner for DLA recommended an indefinite care award.
I've got evidence galore - but I'm under no illusions about my chances of ending up in the WRAG for the third time in as many years.

It may be the case that some people are satisfied with complaints they make to Atos.
I am not, and I will pursue this until I get them to admit what they have done.

There are 800,000 people claiming ESA. There remain a further million or so for conversion from IB.
All of those people will be "examined" by Atos.
I don't believe for a New York minute that my experience is that unusual - I'm inclined to think that people just give up when Atos blames DWP and vice versa.

I have conducted this complaint according to the procedure I was told was the correct one - I've gone through the layers of management, senior management, IT, etc. and at no point in the process has anyone mentioned the Ombudsman.

My MP is a LibDem. Which says it all, really.

)

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this.

Most people do not get any choice on how they are assessed.
Most people are told that if they do not attend their benefit will be stopped.
Most people have requests for home assessments and recordings refused.
There is plenty of evidence in all sorts of fora which supports this.
I think your experience is not usual.

Many IB claimants are finding that they are being moved directly to WRAG with no assessment at all beyond the ESA50. This cannot be right. Two reasons - first, if they have not been assessed since ESA was brought in for all new claims in 2008, their condition may have deteriorated and they may need more support (equally it could have improved, but without assessment, who knows?), and second, Atos have been paid to do these assessments, with an extra undisclosed sum from Grayling last year (he refused to say how much in the House) so they should do them and not put people into WRAG when they may not be capable of any work related activity or capable of lodging an appeal. Of course, that right will be changed soon.

I also would like to be "ill and happy" but I have lived for four years with constant worry, constant battling, assessments (4), reconsiderations (4), appeals (2), on and on it goes.
I think you have been quite fortunate, and I don't think that most people get the correct benefit as rapidly and painlessly as you have.

Re. Posties - I have nothing against posties, I am perfectly aware that they have regulations and supervision, and are not likely to breach confidentiality - the point is that documents intended for
perusal by "medical services" are opened and sorted long before they reach their destination.

I worked for DWP as a DEA for sometime. It has changed beyond recognition.

Your final paragraph has actually upset me - my statements are not predictions, they are the norm. The entire system is set up for claimants to fail, and I am not pursuing my issues with Atos and DWP for fun; nor am I setting out to upset or offend anyone. Or frighten them. If you follow the blogs like Sue's, surely you'd concede that all those people having constant problems can't all be wrong?


I had intended to write another thing on DWP complaints, but I don't think I'll bother.

Dame Anne Begg, MP. Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee - 4 Sept 2012

It is not enough for the government to say that the genuine claimant has nothing to fear. In too many cases, geneuine claimants are not scoring any points in their initial assessment. There is something fundamentally wrong with the system and the contract that Atos is delivering.
When the British Medical Assosiation votes at its conference to say that the work capability assessment is not fit for purpose, there is something wrong with the system.
When GPs are reporting an increased workload, not just as a result of providing reports but as a result of treating patients whose condition has worsened as a result of their WCA experience, there is something wrong with the system.
When my constituent, who has lost his job because he has motor nuerone disease, scores zero on his WCA and is found fully fit for work, there is something wrong with the system.
When that same constituent appears in front of a tribunal and in less than five minutes is awarded 15 points there is something wrong with the system.
When people with progressive illnesses are not automatically put in the support group, there is something wrong with the system.
When some people would rather do without the money to which they are absolutely entitled rather than submit to the stress of a WCA, there is something wrong with the system.
When someone with a severe illness has to fight for a year through an appeal to get the correct benefit, only to be called in almost immedately for another assessment, there is something wrong with the system.
When the recall and assessment happen the following year, and the following year, there is something wrong with the system.
When people feel so persecuted, there is something wrong with the system. To top it all they lose their contributory EXA after only a year if they are in the WRAG group.
When up to 40% of appeals are successful and there is no penalty for the company carrying the assessments, there is something wrong with the contract.
When so many appeals result in an award of ESA support group status when the original assessment was no points, there is something wrong with the system.
When there is no penalty for a high percentage of wrong decisions, there is something wrong with the contract.
When there is no incentive for assessors to get the assesssment correct first time there is something wrong with the contract.
It is time for the Government to act, because there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole system.

epheremid - please write it & post it up for the benefit of those that are going through all the crap you went through.

Wouldn't it be great if everyone had no reason at all to make a complaint ? If everyone's claim was straightforward & the DWP / Atos never lost the paperwork ?

We know for a fact however that this is very often not the case & tips on how to deal with the usually convoluted complaints procedure may be very helpful indeed.

I'll have a think, PK.

I don't want to be accused of frightening people.

I know the system very well, and not just from personal experience recently - I worked for DWP too. Different times, but bureaucracy doesn't change that much.

I have read every piece of legislation and guidance published by DWP over the past few years, and the procedures I describe are the ones laid down in those rules/regs.

I know about the Atos stuff, eg. the CRMA advice they get on the quality of WCAs, thanks to their appalling treatment of my own case and that of others.

They investigate complaints, and they tell you they're doing it - but they do not tell you if a CRMA is involved nor do they give you access to the reports. I only got mine because a friendly manager at DWP sent me a copy of mine.
The verdict was damning, and despite knowing I have this document, Atos continue to say that they have done nothing wrong. Which begs the question why have they offered £200 in "consolation"? They say this is for not being able to provide their customary professional service, and for "administration errors".
They also hide behind DWP by saying that they do not have to release the investigation details to "customers" because DWP are the data controllers - this is true, but they do not have the right to refuse to tell complainants how they are investigating.

I'll have another think about DWP complaints.

Probably.

Please....I would get on my knees but wouldn't be able to get up again so unless you want to see this old crock flailing about on the floor, get that post up !

OK PK.

I refuse to be responsible for further injury to your good crumbling self.

Manana.

I recently emailed a complaint into Atos over cancelled appointments, first one was for the 14th Feb 2013 which gave 5 days notice so as I was on holiday in a hot climate away from the British weather my brother called them to cancel the appointment which happened, next thing I recieved a questionare which was duly filled in and returned, waited some weeks and as my mother had died in Scotland I am ncotland to sort out her affairs but am waiting for a new appointment so I chased them up and after some phone calls got one for the 12th June then a letter rescheduling it to the 10th June then a letter cancelling that appointment, then another appointment for the 24th June to which today I recieved a letter cancelling that one again so I called them again and was informed that was because the examination centre was on the third floor they did not think it was suitable so are giving me a home visit but was told that this could be months away so yet again having to put my mothers family and my life on hold while they mess me about even further. I wonder if I have any recourse on them for all these problems ? Can they give you appointments with only a few days notice ? can they cancell with only a couple of days notice ? I attended one last may of 2012 after calling them and emailing them asking for suitable seating but when I arrived no suitable seating and had to stand in agony for almost half an hour only to be told that appointment was cancelled as nobody there to do it, I ended up in bed for three days afterwards in pain and not even an apology in fact not even reimbursed my costs for getting there

Hi davysmith.

I'm afraid I have no answer to your question but am asking on other forums.

Hope some one can respond helpfully for you,

I was send over here by HRH Yayah.

Atos are a law unto themselves, however, there is some potential.

First question: would you have been able to lay on the floor rather than standing, and would you have been more comfortable that way? If so, a person laying on the floor in their reception area is something that unsettles them great deal. However, DO NOT DO THIS if it will harm/hurt you in any way.

Requests for suitable seating will fall on deaf ears.

One thing I note with Atos is they like to say that if you can go to a hospital appointment, you can go to theirs. BUT, in my case, at hospital, they usually manage to find me a suitable place to lie down to wait. Atos don't. It would've been helpful to have told them that this is what you required rather than asking for suitable seating.....it kind of rams the point home.

Having said that, you now appear to be in the position of them agreeing to give you a home visit. This gives you an advantage over many others, though be careful because as soon as they knock on your door they will be monitoring you. Don't be making displays of independence. I'd advise recording proceedings (use excuse of not being able to write fast enough to take notes etc and cite it's a 'reasonable adjustment' to allow people with disabilities to take notes in alternative ways. In addition, ensure you have a 'witness' with you...and if anything needs fetching etc, get them to do it. This is no time to struggle to make the visitor a cup of tea....you'll succumb to the infamous 'pint of milk' test.

With regard to last minute cancellations, there's little you can do. Always worth a 'written' complaint as if you end up having a fight on your hands, it's all evidence of their poor conduct. Make sure you're explicit about the difficulties this causes you, with particular emphasis on any stress it causes you and the impact of this on your health as well as arrangements you have to make with carers etc and then have to cancel...again, citing the impact it has on you, your health and even your finances.

Can they spring a last minute home visit on you? I'd say it's more 'reasonable' than a last minute 'come to my office' appointment. But I would expect at least 48 hours notice and if you work or have other commitments that would be interfered with, pop that in your letter/email to them.

Always ensure you have copies of all communications you have with them. Only communicate with them by phone when you have to, and then confirm what was said in an email/letter afterwards.

I hope some of this is useful. Ephi will likely be able to tell you more on their obligation of advance warning of a visit. I'm not at work at the moment so don't have the usual access to resources on the subject.