Monday 11th April 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:40 am

Morning

http://www.theguardian.com/news/comment ... s-together" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Epoch-changing attitudes to wealth and tax are engulfing Cameron
Steve Richards

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:48 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fi ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fitness for work assessors 'mock the disabled' while earning up to £20,000 a month

AKA The real fraudsters

Capita do PIP assessments not about fit for work.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:54 am

http://centreforum.org/publications/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Children and Young People’s Mental Health: State of the Nation

Labour Press
It’s utterly outrageous that vulnerable children and young people are getting turned away from the help they so desperately need - Berger

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1426187 ... e-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:58 am

Morning folks,
Here's a cheery tweet from BBC Newcastle to start the day:

Newcastle's West End Food bank is thought to be the first in the country to start cooking meals for children at the end of their school day.

If i see any further details, I'll post them. Now I'm off to the bank to give my kids £300,000.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:12 am

Scrutinised to the nth degree,in the most intimate of details,guilty until proven innocent,beholden to "tax payer" and questioned as to sustainability as to the fundamentals of a reasonable life=necessary.

Tax-return =witch hunt.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:20 am

Blimey, I'm in agreement with JRM!

And Laura is back giving her spin. Phew, I was getting worried.

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:33 am

The Secret Barrister ‏@BarristerSecret 59m59 minutes ago
The Secret Barrister Retweeted Matthew Ryder
Quite.

Matthew Ryder
‏@rydermc
New criminal tax legislation in a rushed proposal specifically because PM under pressure over his own taxes.... What could go wrong?

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 59m59 minutes ago
Irs understood PM will not give further details in statement today of £72,000 in shares he sold at same time as Blairmore holding

Deflection tactics in full deployment.

Morning peeps.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:35 am

Morning!

Can anyone, really, possibly be satisfied that Dave is now going to introduce some decent tax legislation?

Apart from Laura K that is.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:36 am

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1h1 hour ago
Its understood "quite likely" Chancellor will publish his tax returns "within next few days"

Chancellors, PMs and Cabinet should have to provide full transparency over income, tax affairs etc - including unearned income. If you're making policy that affects the incomes of the public - you need to show your own interests.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:38 am

To be fair, Laura K is back with a decent set of Tweets.

I'm obviously not down with the kids enough, but what exactly does this mean?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:41 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

http://www.theguardian.com/news/comment ... s-together" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Epoch-changing attitudes to wealth and tax are engulfing Cameron
Steve Richards

That's a very good piece. No comments facility as yet. Hope that's just because it's too early for the moderators.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:44 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:To be fair, Laura K is back with a decent set of Tweets.

I'm obviously not down with the kids enough, but what exactly does this mean?

She's been saying for a while that normal government practices and co-ordinated planning re press - announcing and managing of issues etc - has been in complete disarray. Before it was the EU ref that had stopped people focusing on other matters and communicating properly with each other. I think she's saying that has been considerably worsened by this tax flare up and bad management of it ... they already weren't in a position to cope well with things and were completely unable to deal with this in the correct manner. Discipline and communication gone.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:45 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fi ... ar_twitter

Fitness for work assessors 'mock the disabled' while earning up to £20,000 a month

AKA The real fraudsters

Maximus, calling itself "The Centre for Health and Disability Assessments" (the name of the "company" that holds the DWP WCA contract) advertises jobs via http://www.indeed.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which carries ads via other employment agencies including Hays Healthcare.

Hays Healthcare is currently looking for RGNs and Chartered Physios to work for Maximus at the Centre...etc. via indeed.co.uk. Salaries start at £38,000 PA for people with 2 years post-graduate experience. That's £15K more than in the NHS.

The Hays advert has this at the bottom - "Hays are pleased to offer a £250 referral bonus to any successful applicants that you refer to us"which begs the question - if the referred applicant gets £250, how much does the referring agency get?

Whether the job is at The Centre for Health and Disability Assessments, the Fit for Work service, the Work Programme, or one of the many other areas that Maximus is now operating in, salaries are very generous - and the ethos is the same. All those jobs are based on "training" which is in-house and based on the bio/psych/social model warped to the Nth.degree.

Maximus is also advertising for Registered Medical Practitioners.
They have to have 2 years post-qualification experience, ie. be a junior doctor at Senior House Officer level. In the NHS, SHO salaries start at £28,000 and rise to a maximum of £40,000 or so, but after some years.
Maximus is offering starting salaries of £72,000 PA.

The only - and notable - exception to this is Remploy.

It is now owned by Maximus, and the disabled people who still work for Remploy and deliver "Experts by Experience" support to Care Quality Commission inspectors have had their pay cut.
They were, before Maximus bought out Remploy, paid £17/hour. Now they get £8.25/hour (£9.40 in London). The CQC pledged to pay the difference for the first 6 months of the contract.

There were 3 inspections contracts open to offers, and Maximus/Remploy got 2 of them. After the top-up on their wages from the CQC runs out (in a months' time) those Experts by Experience will be paid £1.05p more than the National Living (ie. minimum) Wage.

Heal the sick and save lives in our National Health Service, and you get paid the same as a junior manager in retail.

Harass ill people and support the government in making them destitute, and you get paid three times that.

This is Tory government.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:47 am

Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 9m9 minutes ago
Labour’s attack on Cameron is an attack on all Conservatives – and on succcess itself, writes Chris Grayling http://bit.ly/1RNVvEr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a man of the people he is - always in step with the mood. If he thinks this is just 'Labour's attack' - he is in cloud cuckoo land. He should listen to some of his own MPs who are getting it - for a change.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:48 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1h1 hour ago
Its understood "quite likely" Chancellor will publish his tax returns "within next few days"
Chancellors, PMs and Cabinet should have to provide full transparency over income, tax affairs etc - including unearned income. If you're making policy that affects the incomes of the public - you need to show your own interests.

If Gidiot publishes his tax returns, I'll be astonished.

Cameron hasn't published his, has he?

All the pratting about last week has given the millionaires in cabinet (ie, most of them) plenty of time to get an accountant to write a letter for them a la Slimy Dave.

It's all bollocks, and we will not see their tax returns.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:58 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:To be fair, Laura K is back with a decent set of Tweets.

I'm obviously not down with the kids enough, but what exactly does this mean?

Sounds like she's talking about the same type of Grid that Labour used to have - probably swept away with the same "Oh, it's Labour - must be useless".

I guess EU referendum was what all govt departments were going to focus on this week. Not any more...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:58 am

ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1h1 hour ago
Its understood "quite likely" Chancellor will publish his tax returns "within next few days"
Chancellors, PMs and Cabinet should have to provide full transparency over income, tax affairs etc - including unearned income. If you're making policy that affects the incomes of the public - you need to show your own interests.

If Gidiot publishes his tax returns, I'll be astonished.

Cameron hasn't published his, has he?

All the pratting about last week has given the millionaires in cabinet (ie, most of them) plenty of time to get an accountant to write a letter for them a la Slimy Dave.

It's all bollocks, and we will not see their tax returns.

If they only provide accountant's letters - the contrast with those who have published their actual tax returns will be even greater and won't go unnoticed. This will damage Osborne further if he doesn't provide robust information. McDonnell has already published his tax return - weeks ago. That turns out to have been a very astute move by him.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:09 am

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 5m5 minutes ago
When even Jacob Rees-Mogg is sayings MPs will have to publish their tax returns, you know the game is up - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 43cb76862e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

It's quite a turnaround from the man who told us a few days ago that Cameron had shut down the tax furore - move along now the entertainment is over. But he has acknowledged how wrong he was.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:27 am

Selective memory of the MIRAS touch.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:34 am

Vardy,Willet,Northern Powerhouse.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:39 am

Robert Peston ‏@Peston 6m6 minutes ago
.@George_Osborne would like to publish his tax return today but hard for @David_Cameron to approve coz could force all cabinet to publish

Eh?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:39 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Northern Irish women on abortion: 'people feel they can't trust anyone'
Fear and suspicion widespread after the prosecution of a young woman in Belfast whose flatmates reported her to police

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:51 am

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 9m9 minutes ago
With Zac continuing to trail some Tory voices are questioning the Crosby-inspired campaign @BrindDon http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... -campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:52 am

Matt Chorley ‏@MattChorley 4s4 seconds ago
EXC: Cameron urged to carry out “unforgiving” purge of Brexiteers after referendum http://bit.ly/23wnyMH" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bit of a contrast with yesterday's reports that Cameron is going to offer top jobs to Gove and Boris Johnson to try and repair party unity and save his sorry socks.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:53 am

Good morfternoon.

Re Inheritance Tax -

The point often missed (or deliberately ignored) is that it is not the dead person (who may well have already paid tax on what they leave behind) it's the person\s who benefit from what they inherit who are liable for the tax. So they are only paying tax once on what is effectively unearned income. Otherwise, people on PAYE could argue that they shouldn't be paying tax because their earnings have already been churned through the tax system as it applied to their employer.

Edited

To remove an "is"

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 9:55 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Robert Peston ‏@Peston 6m6 minutes ago
.@George_Osborne would like to publish his tax return today but hard for @David_Cameron to approve coz could force all cabinet to publish
Eh?

The emphasis is on Cameron and Osborne at the moment, so I don't see how that necessarily follows, though I can see, with the likes of Hunt and Hammond in cabinet, that there would be reluctance to see the fad going any further.

As for Rees-Mogg, it's easy for him to be nonchalant about it because he's already been in the spotlight over how he makes his money and there have been accusations in the press of conflicts of interest and so on. He's had his scrutiny already, so has little to fear in further exposure. He, unlike Dave, has never tried to hide the fact he is incredibly wealthy and makes money investing in unethical, though scrupulously legal, ways.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:01 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Re Inheritance Tax -

The point is often missed (or deliberately ignored) is that it is not the dead person (who may well have already paid tax on what they leave behind) it's the person\s who benefit from what they inherit who are liable for the tax. So they are only paying tax once on what is effectively unearned income. Otherwise, people on PAYE could argue that they shouldn't be paying tax because their earnings have already been churned through the tax system as it applied to their employer.

Wilfully ignored. It's not helped that the image of iht is part of the striver Conservatives target voters. Costing analysis of what a typical middle class family finances would change from the potential relowering of the iht threshold against a change in vat for example would be interesting.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:05 am

Labour Press Team ‏@labourpress 1m1 minute ago
The Tories have lost the argument on the Housing Bill @JohnHealey_MP https://tmblr.co/ZP11Jr24qyHuX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:10 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fi ... ar_twitter

Fitness for work assessors 'mock the disabled' while earning up to £20,000 a month

AKA The real fraudsters

Capita do PIP assessments not about fit for work.

Just seen from the Mirror report that this is going to be on a Dispatches programme. I hope Crabb is ready for an email from me and, I hope, quite a lot of other people.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:11 am

Stephen NolanVerified account
‏@StephenNolan
Breaking : UKIP tell Nolan show they will deport foreign doctors who get a parking ticket

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:31 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Morning

http://www.theguardian.com/news/comment ... s-together" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Epoch-changing attitudes to wealth and tax are engulfing Cameron
Steve Richards
That's a very good piece. No comments facility as yet. Hope that's just because it's too early for the moderators.

There will soon be the usual suspects along telling us that Corbyn is scruffy, and this is more important than anything else

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:37 am

Morfterbubbleafteralltinoon...

Well well well....tax haven problems? Couldn't happen to a more deserving cunch of bunts...not sure why #Camerontaxsongs isn't trending on Twitter (with its' 100 tweets every 10 minutes or so...probably gone the same way as #resigncameron, #panamapapers etc)...but my favourites are (and as ever, apologies if it's been mentioned before)...

'Imagine there's no haven'...or..."Is this the real life? Should they be taxing me?" - Bohemian Taxsody

...and so to a bit of link-monkeying...

The UK crime agency is demanding quicker access to the corporate records of secretive offshore companies in Britain’s overseas territories including the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.
Talks between the National Crime Agency, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and tax havens are continuing alongside the fallout from the Panama Papers. But no final agreement with the overseas territories has been reached.
Andy Lewis, head of the NCA’s bribery, corruption and sanctions unit, travelled to the Cayman Islands and the BVI in February, the agency said.
The British government’s ultimate aim is to establish a public register of companies, but the first priority is urgent access to records so police and tax authorities can investigate potential criminal activity.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... ss-records

...what was it that Ed and Labour committed to again? (from Feb 2015)...

“More than 18 months have passed since David Cameron promised to shine a light on the tax havens in UK overseas territories and Crown Dependencies – and their affairs are still shrouded in darkness. That may be good enough for him, but it will not satisfy me, or the incoming Labour government
“There is nothing pro-business about defending tax avoidance. The United Kingdom has a responsibility to open up the Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies which are held responsible for so much tax secrecy and avoidance.

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1102824 ... oks-in-six

...perhaps he could ask his buddies at HSBC to help....oh, wait a sec - what's this?...

Leaked files from law firm Mossack Fonseca – dubbed the Panama Papers – reveal the bank and its affiliates set up 2,300 shell companies in tax havens across the world to enable wealthy clients to avoid taxes.
Chief executive Stuart Gulliver used Panama to hide £5million of bonuses while the bank had ties to a billionaire cousin of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/arti ... -bank.html

So - let's get this straight - 1978....no capital flight allowed/1979...capital flight regulations relaxed (including the ability to invest overseas)/1979...Cameron Snr, along with many others, is heavily involved in the redesign of financial instruments...that are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO AVOID UK TAX LIABILITY....which are then made 'legal' by the British Government...leading neatly to where we are now, with the BVI for example....Virgin/Branson being paid squillions of public money to not bother to do very much with the NHS, paid to companies registered in the BVI with no transparency or tax liability - I may be simple and naive....but that is (and has always been) theft - and there's no real way out for them - I remember conversations at the time (83/84/85) referring to the fact that it was theft.

...and as for the Daily Heil and 'IHT is money that's already been taxed'...perhaps one of their fathful readers will explain in little small words (so benefit scrounger Dacre can understand it) what happens to money to and from pension pots.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:06 am

Sanders beat Clinton in Wyoming 56/44 on Saturday/Sunday.

New York,next Tuesday.

CNN have the next Dem.Debate on this Thursday/Friday,for those interested.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:11 am

HindleA wrote:Sanders beat Clinton in Wyoming 56/44 on Saturday/Sunday.

Yes. Glad to see the pics of Sanders munching a hotdog whilst Clinton merely admires the cheesecake. HRC is still polling way ahead in New York, the end of the race is nigh.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:19 am

...and what's this now?

Why was it that the Conservatives so quickly reneged on their own election promises to clamp down on those who make money offshore? No doubt they were torn between the need to stick to their word and their perception that tax havens help to keep the City of London open for business. But it is also tempting to be more cynical. Under British law, hedge funds are able to register in the Caymans—and make their deals tax-free through the islands. This is allowed even though most of those running the funds work thousands of miles away, mainly in central London. If you delve into the public records in the Caymans—as researchers for the Channel 4 Dispatches programme I have just produced did—you will find lists containing many hedge fund names, many of them based in London. Some of the names of owners of these funds can also be found on the electoral commission’s record of Conservative party donors.

Indeed, just a few weeks before the government U-turn on the Caymans, a number of British hedge-fund owners handed over large sums of money to the Conservative party, in the run-up to the general election. Some had also given up to six-figure sums to George Osborne to pay for his office in opposition. No laws have been broken. But would it be getting a little carried away to wonder if they were all in it together?

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/opini ... dispatches

...and what about Gidiot? Let's start with how he was viewed in Feb 2010 (OK, it's the Mirror, so they might not like him anyway)...

The confused expression that sits permanently on George Osborne's face has taken a lifetime to perfect.
From insecure child to ineffectual shadow chancellor, the heir to the 17th century baronetcy of Ballentaylor*, has faced constant ridicule and rejection.
He's the little rich boy who could never quite buy the approval of his peers, always on the outside looking in.

The son of Sir Peter George Osborne and Felicity Loxton-Peacock, he is the heir to a baronetcy that dates back to 1629 and he has a 15% stake in his family's wallpaper firm, Osborne & Little, which is worth, at a conservative estimate, £15million.
It's why eyebrows were raised among the party hierarchy when he became embroiled in the expenses scandal and was ordered to repay £1,666.
How, they said, could a future Chancellor and multi-millionaire overclaim mortgage payments on his second home (as well as putting in a £121 bill for servicing his Aga)?
He had form. A few years earlier the heir to the Osborne empire had offered donors the chance to fund his Commons office directly, a fact he failed to mention in the Commons register, which drew another rebuke from the standards watchdog.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ge ... tle-199507

...a bit of noise seems to be being made about the connection with the wallpaper empire....and not much to his in-laws....Lord Howell (pater-in-law), owner and distributor of fracking licences, at the top of Cuadrilla and Windsor Energy....no way they would have looked to maximise their tax advantage through overseas trusts...absolutely none.

Howell also lobbies on behalf of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which aims to bring non-departmental bodies together with international agency groups to the furtherance of the safe production of nuclear fuels. In 2015, Prime Minister David Cameron invited the Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party to undertake the first full State Visit to Britain, where the Premier was entertained to hospitality from the Queen at Buckingham Palace. One of the trade deals announced was a deal for China to build a new nuclear power station in Britain as part of the Conservative Government's Foreign Direct Investment program (FDI).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_How ... _Guildford

So is Clouncy really going to try a make a statement about how they're going to tackle tax havens?...or his and Gidiots tax affairs?...or the connections to their donors?....or the connections to their bankster chums?

The tin-foil hatter in me keeps wondering whether this is all some sort of elaborate Murkydochian ruse to isolate and remove Clouncy (so that he can swan off into the distance searching for fish to point at) and replace with a Brexiter....but no - that's to outlandish even for my taste!

* Oddly, Ballentaylor and Ballylemon appear to have no information about them anywhere....whether there's any land, income etc....and, of course, it's in Ireland....so is it possible to transfer assets within family circles?...and is there any value to the title? Of course not, there couldn't possibly be, Wolfie, don't be daft

ttfn

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:31 am

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 2m2 minutes ago
Dismay amongst some Tory MPs at Osborne hinting he will publish his tax return too. One said they would consider quitting if all MPs had to

Good.

And I will be quite happy to see the likes of Danczuk have to publish his tax returns as well.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:40 am

[quote="Willow904"]
The emphasis is on Cameron and Osborne at the moment, so I don't see how that necessarily follows, though I can see, with the likes of Hunt and Hammond in cabinet, that there would be reluctance to see the fad going any further.

With respect, Willow, I do not see this as a "fad".

I hope it is a movement towards what the Scandinavians call "jantelag", a situation in which no person is better (or worse) than others.

In Sweden, Finland, and Norway, the official tax returns of all citizens are published and are accessible to all.

Perhaps that's why, according to Norway's Aftenposten, CEO pay in Norway is 16 times that of ordinary workers in the vast majority of cases; there are very few senior people there who earn higher multiples.
People know how much the pay is for all types of work; they also have a government that curbs excessive pay, is a stakeholder in many large companies, and is careful to ensure that the public accept what they do.

In Germany, CEO pay is 90 times that of the worker; here in the UK a CEO gets 185 times the pay of the people who work for him.

I would like to see all the people who are paid by the public to be open about what they earn and where they get their money from.
If some of our governing elite are benefiting from income and/or donations from tax havens or anyone who benefits from them, I think we have a right to know about it.
They are enjoying the fruits of schemes or whatever that they claim they abhor and are pretending to legislate against; they are ignoring the public disapproval of their antics whilst claiming that those of us who protest are indulging in the politics of envy. It's time for a bit of fairness, and a lot of openness.

I don't care how rich Cameron is. I don't give two hoots if Osborne is rolling in it. But I do care, and object, to very rich people who may have got that way by any class of chicanery (and until they tell us we don't know if they're honest) telling me that taking much-needed income away from poor people to pay down the deficit and/or act as an incentive for them to find work that isn't there.

I hope this demand to see what the people we pay so handsomely to look after our best interests do with their dosh becomes law.
I hope this is not a "fad".

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:50 am

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 2m2 minutes ago
PM's spokeswoman: "those in charge of the nations finance should show transparency too" - re osborne tax publication

Cameron's increasing his popularity in the party with every move.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 12:01 pm

I've cut and pasted this from Bracknell Labour's website. There is also a photo of a truly pretty young girl, but as you know I can't do photos at the moment.

I don't often ask for people to share things of Facebook but this is the sort of thing that social media gets out that the censored news does not - so please pass it on if you feel you can.
This is my daughter - I am very proud of her. She is in her second year of a midwifery degree - a trainee midwife - a career she is passionate about. This morning she came home after her second consecutive 12 hour night shift having not had a break - at all - all night - not one. She hadn't even sat down - all night - not once ...never mind eaten. She handed me her meal that had travelled with her for both nights uneaten and said "I'm too tired to eat it now, it will have gone off. Will you throw it away please?" She looked terrible - and I looked into those eyes that you see here and I saw a desperation. She went upstairs and I shed a tear.
I would imagine that all the people on her course were as keen and as passionate as she was but she has lost count of the people who have dropped out.
The powers that be are breaking people - breaking people like my daughter, breaking junior doctors, breaking the ill people who they look after with the changes to benefits and the rest. Whilst we read about the rich - and how they live their lives...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 12:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 2m2 minutes ago
Dismay amongst some Tory MPs at Osborne hinting he will publish his tax return too. One said they would consider quitting if all MPs had to
Good.

And I will be quite happy to see the likes of Danczuk have to publish his tax returns as well.

I'm sure he would be delighted to

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 12:21 pm

Richard Benyon must be looking forward to the prospect of all MPs giving any info from their tax returns!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 12:37 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Willow904 wrote: The emphasis is on Cameron and Osborne at the moment, so I don't see how that necessarily follows, though I can see, with the likes of Hunt and Hammond in cabinet, that there would be reluctance to see the fad going any further.

With respect, Willow, I do not see this as a "fad".

I hope it is a movement towards what the Scandinavians call "jantelag", a situation in which no person is better (or worse) than others.

In Sweden, Finland, and Norway, the official tax returns of all citizens are published and are accessible to all.

Perhaps that's why, according to Norway's Aftenposten, CEO pay in Norway is 16 times that of ordinary workers in the vast majority of cases; there are very few senior people there who earn higher multiples.
People know how much the pay is for all types of work; they also have a government that curbs excessive pay, is a stakeholder in many large companies, and is careful to ensure that the public accept what they do.

In Germany, CEO pay is 90 times that of the worker; here in the UK a CEO gets 185 times the pay of the people who work for him.

I would like to see all the people who are paid by the public to be open about what they earn and where they get their money from.
If some of our governing elite are benefiting from income and/or donations from tax havens or anyone who benefits from them, I think we have a right to know about it.
They are enjoying the fruits of schemes or whatever that they claim they abhor and are pretending to legislate against; they are ignoring the public disapproval of their antics whilst claiming that those of us who protest are indulging in the politics of envy. It's time for a bit of fairness, and a lot of openness.

I don't care how rich Cameron is. I don't give two hoots if Osborne is rolling in it. But I do care, and object, to very rich people who may have got that way by any class of chicanery (and until they tell us we don't know if they're honest) telling me that taking much-needed income away from poor people to pay down the deficit and/or act as an incentive for them to find work that isn't there.

I hope this demand to see what the people we pay so handsomely to look after our best interests do with their dosh becomes law.
I hope this is not a "fad".

From The Guardian live blog:

One Tory MP said that the prime minister had been a “clot” in his handling of the row and had “gone a bit too far” in agreeing to publish his tax details, which would have a domino effect. Predicting that Mr Osborne would have to succumb to public pressure to do the same, the source said: “The fact is, Dave has put him in this position” ...

A second senior Conservative MP also said of the disclosure that it would be “difficult now the prime minister’s done it for others in the cabinet not to have to do it”, but added that it was regrettable. “It extends its reach to all those in public life and the key question is: where does it stop? BBC journalists, councillors, judges?”

Anyone who is likely to make judgement on, pass laws affecting us, or report about it, should be open to scrutiny.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:28 pm

Just noticed that the Parliament Channel is live at half three so Cameron shall be breaking a leg for a live audience. I want to see puppy eyes and his nose rubbed in it but more importantly I hope for serious issues of where we go from here but give it a few minutes though and puce, puff face will be back.

David: No government in history has said more to combat tax evasion and I shall say some more.

Jeremy: Yes but words are not enough. What are you going to do when you leave the House?

David: Well, I do need a piss.

Edit: rephrased should it ever be repeated.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:29 pm

Victory for campaigners as the DWP finally publishes long-awaited Universal Credit documents

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/04/ ... es-long-aw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:29 pm

Allie
‏@alliomack

Private Eye created an easily searchable online map of properties in England & Wales owned by offshore companies.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/mobi/registry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:34 pm

http://www.ukauthority.com/news/6115/qu ... service-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Questions hang over anti-fraud service IT

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Eh?
The emphasis is on Cameron and Osborne at the moment, so I don't see how that necessarily follows, though I can see, with the likes of Hunt and Hammond in cabinet, that there would be reluctance to see the fad going any further.

As for Rees-Mogg, it's easy for him to be nonchalant about it because he's already been in the spotlight over how he makes his money and there have been accusations in the press of conflicts of interest and so on. He's had his scrutiny already, so has little to fear in further exposure. He, unlike Dave, has never tried to hide the fact he is incredibly wealthy and makes money investing in unethical, though scrupulously legal, ways.
Rees-Mogg was of the opinion that there is no morality in tax behaviour - there's legal and illegal, and it's up to the government to decide what the law is. This goes against both the PM's and Chancellor's statements about the morality of certain kinds of tax avoidance, and Osborne's characterisation of 'aggressive tax avoidance'. He quoted someone or other who apparently declared that the state should not have the right to make someone pay the maximum amount of tax. Never mind that this is effectively the case for the vast majority of people who don't have the freedom to choose how much tax they pay.

It was an odd kind of interview. I started off agreeing with Rees-Mogg, to my astonishment, but later he reverted to type by breezily stating that he had set up offshore investment funds before, and that they were for 'sophisticated investors' to free themselves from a certain amount of regulation, but were absolutely not about tax. Then suggested that Cameron's actions were less bad than buying duty free.

From the summary, it looked like an surprisingly useful interview-apart from the ridiculous duty free comparison.

"Sophisticated" was a good one. I can never tell with him if he's tone deaf or on a wind up. His explanation that people invested offshore to avoid regulation was interesting. I thought Brown's light-touch regulation would have made that unnecessary.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:38 pm

5m ago 13:29
Corbyn has not been able to publish his tax return yet because he does not have a copy

Jeremy Corbyn has promised to publish his own tax return. But there has been a hold-up - because he does not have a copy. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I don't think there's anyone who would (honestly) say that there's anything sinister about this - but rather a cock-up, surely, if he can't come up with it in time for this afternoon. Can you imagine what hay David Cameron will make of it?

Edited to add

Although it has to be borne in mind that David Cameron hasn't made public his actual tax return. Maybe that's the best line to take (the best line of attack whatever the circumstances, probably).

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:41 pm

Re inheritance tax as a problem for Labour, could they suggest a higher rate over whatever threshold is chosen? Also, they might have some scope for lowering it from a million if they do what the Coalition planned- use the money for a care cap. I think there'll have to be something specific, and resonant with older voters.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 1:53 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Willow904 wrote: The emphasis is on Cameron and Osborne at the moment, so I don't see how that necessarily follows, though I can see, with the likes of Hunt and Hammond in cabinet, that there would be reluctance to see the fad going any further.

With respect, Willow, I do not see this as a "fad".

I hope it is a movement towards what the Scandinavians call "jantelag", a situation in which no person is better (or worse) than others.

In Sweden, Finland, and Norway, the official tax returns of all citizens are published and are accessible to all.

Perhaps that's why, according to Norway's Aftenposten, CEO pay in Norway is 16 times that of ordinary workers in the vast majority of cases; there are very few senior people there who earn higher multiples.
People know how much the pay is for all types of work; they also have a government that curbs excessive pay, is a stakeholder in many large companies, and is careful to ensure that the public accept what they do.

In Germany, CEO pay is 90 times that of the worker; here in the UK a CEO gets 185 times the pay of the people who work for him.

I would like to see all the people who are paid by the public to be open about what they earn and where they get their money from.
If some of our governing elite are benefiting from income and/or donations from tax havens or anyone who benefits from them, I think we have a right to know about it.
They are enjoying the fruits of schemes or whatever that they claim they abhor and are pretending to legislate against; they are ignoring the public disapproval of their antics whilst claiming that those of us who protest are indulging in the politics of envy. It's time for a bit of fairness, and a lot of openness.

I don't care how rich Cameron is. I don't give two hoots if Osborne is rolling in it. But I do care, and object, to very rich people who may have got that way by any class of chicanery (and until they tell us we don't know if they're honest) telling me that taking much-needed income away from poor people to pay down the deficit and/or act as an incentive for them to find work that isn't there.

I hope this demand to see what the people we pay so handsomely to look after our best interests do with their dosh becomes law.
I hope this is not a "fad".

You misunderstand me. What I was referring to as a "fad" was the propagandistic exercise of publishing self-selected pieces of financial information by the likes of Goldsmith and Cameron in a sudden frenzy of faux openness when it suits them. A system of public tax returns for public officials sounds great, but random offerings by random MPs feels like a fad to me. Corbyn has said he'd like to see much more to be declared in the resgister of members interests. I'd rather have something more concrete like that, than a similarly edited expose from Osborne which is designed to be titillating to satsify the masses rather than giving us the true transparency we need.