Saturday 16th & Sunday 17th April 2016

Post by **refitman** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 7:00 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 7:06 am

Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... rty-scheme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chancellor overruled Amber Rudd on changes to fuel poverty scheme

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 7:51 am

morning all. Snowing wetly and steadily here after a very cold night.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 8:39 am

Morning all.

This is definitely an "Oops!" post.

Teacher shortages 'of greater concern than full-scale academisation'

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation

Looming teacher shortages represent a bigger problem than turning every school in England into an academy, according to the head of one of the country’s largest and most successful academy chains.

Sir Daniel Moynihan, chief executive of the Harris Federation, which manages 37 academies in London, says rising house prices are making it almost impossible to keep talented teachers – and argues that education secretary Nicky Morgan’s determination to press ahead with full-scale academisation is a distraction.

“It’s always been an expectation that teaching is a respectable profession and you should be entitled to have somewhere to live,” Moynihan said in an interview with the Guardian. “But it’s not the case now, and nobody in politics is addressing it.

“That to me seems a far more fundamental thing to be worrying about than whether all schools should be academies by 2022.”

Moynihan expressed scepticism at the practicality of the government’s deadline of 2022 for every school to have moved to academy status, saying: “It’s really difficult to tell. It’s a big ask.”

Incidentally, he ruled himself out of being Wilshaw's successor - definitely wouldn't get it now having gone off-message with this.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 9:59 am

Morning.

38 Degrees did a survey asking their members how they would like to deal with the EU referendum. There was a consensus to "fact check" the "in" and "out" campaigns and attempt to provide impartial information. This is their first effort:

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campa ... heck-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]Mv22aRdLjKY[/youtube]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 10:51 am

Morning.

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 18m18 minutes ago
Consolation if Brexit happens would be reassessment of austerity-untouched £3bn subsides to rich farmers. Tory RT Davies gets £97,000 a year

Very much in two minds about this issue - farmer subsidies and Brexit and what might happen. Was having a chat with another local activist yesterday and he and I were both positing that it was very unlikely that the small Welsh hill farmers would do well out of any Tory controlled re jigged subsidies. We can't quite work out why a relatively high proportion of such farmers seem to back Brexit ...
There is a vague chance that there might be more chance of pointing out the unfairness of subsidies going to large landowners who may not be producing anything or doing much to conserve the environment if it became a more direct subsidy system post Brexit. But who knows - we certainly shouldn't rely on the 'most transparent government ever'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 10:58 am

Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson 1m1 minute ago
Went to Redcar to see what happens when your steelworks closes. Euroscepticism goes on the rise.

Life After Steel: Fear And Euroscepticism In Redcar
Redcar has lost its steelworks and Port Talbot could be next. What does this mean for the EU referendum?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/af ... gbb0Xm98Ja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 11:02 am

Good morfternoon.

Just a thought - perhaps 'most transparent government ever' is code for 'a lot more people are now beginning to see right through us'?

I read today that "Cuddly" Ken Clarke is being unhelpful re David Cameron's chances of surviving an "Out" vote. Probably not a good thing for the "In" side as it's more likely to make this referendum a vote about David Cameron's PM-ship. Which would be a very short-sighted way to treat it, in my view.

Cameron wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost EU vote, says Ken Clarke

Former chancellor says it would be ‘farcical’ if PM remained in office to negotiate a British exit from Europe (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ken-clarke

Edited to finish post - I was a bit previous

Edited again - far too previous, having (belatedly) proof-read it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 11:40 am

Japan earthquake - 7.3 magnitude
A lot of information in the article linked

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... i-advisory" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Morning, everyone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 11:56 am

Yes, but K Clarke has never been known for euphemism

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 12:24 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Just a thought - perhaps 'most transparent government ever' is code for 'a lot more people are now beginning to see right through us'?

I read today that "Cuddly" Ken Clarke is being unhelpful re David Cameron's chances of surviving an "Out" vote. Probably not a good thing for the "In" side as it's more likely to make this referendum a vote about David Cameron's PM-ship. Which would be a very short-sighted way to treat it, in my view.

Cameron wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost EU vote, says Ken Clarke

Former chancellor says it would be ‘farcical’ if PM remained in office to negotiate a British exit from Europe (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ken-clarke

Edited to finish post - I was a bit previous

Edited again - far too previous, having (belatedly) proof-read it

He's only stating the blindingly obvious, though. A lot of people would have already worked that out for themselves. For Tory voters fed up with calamitous Cameron it's inevitably going to be a factor, but no one on the left who supports "in" is going to vote "out" just to change Tory leader - they would have other reasons to prefer to leave the EU as well, so the emphasis is still on those who want to remain to ensure their arguments are compelling.

Does anyone think Boris will make a leadership bid if Cameron wins with only a very small margin? Or will he wait until Cameron stands down before the next election?

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 12:48 pm

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Just a thought - perhaps 'most transparent government ever' is code for 'a lot more people are now beginning to see right through us'?

I read today that "Cuddly" Ken Clarke is being unhelpful re David Cameron's chances of surviving an "Out" vote. Probably not a good thing for the "In" side as it's more likely to make this referendum a vote about David Cameron's PM-ship. Which would be a very short-sighted way to treat it, in my view.

Cameron wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost EU vote, says Ken Clarke

Former chancellor says it would be ‘farcical’ if PM remained in office to negotiate a British exit from Europe (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ken-clarke

Edited to finish post - I was a bit previous

Edited again - far too previous, having (belatedly) proof-read it
He's only stating the blindingly obvious, though. A lot of people would have already worked that out for themselves. For Tory voters fed up with calamitous Cameron it's inevitably going to be a factor, but no one on the left who supports "in" is going to vote "out" just to change Tory leader - they would have other reasons to prefer to leave the EU as well, so the emphasis is still on those who want to remain to ensure their arguments are compelling.

Does anyone think Boris will make a leadership bid if Cameron wins with only a very small margin? Or will he wait until Cameron stands down before the next election?

I think dave is gone by the summer recess whatever happens. It honestly wouldnt surprise me to see a GE before xmas - esp if its brexit that wins.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 12:52 pm

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Just a thought - perhaps 'most transparent government ever' is code for 'a lot more people are now beginning to see right through us'?

I read today that "Cuddly" Ken Clarke is being unhelpful re David Cameron's chances of surviving an "Out" vote. Probably not a good thing for the "In" side as it's more likely to make this referendum a vote about David Cameron's PM-ship. Which would be a very short-sighted way to treat it, in my view.

Cameron wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost EU vote, says Ken Clarke

Former chancellor says it would be ‘farcical’ if PM remained in office to negotiate a British exit from Europe (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ken-clarke

Edited to finish post - I was a bit previous

Edited again - far too previous, having (belatedly) proof-read it
He's only stating the blindingly obvious, though. A lot of people would have already worked that out for themselves. For Tory voters fed up with calamitous Cameron it's inevitably going to be a factor, but no one on the left who supports "in" is going to vote "out" just to change Tory leader - they would have other reasons to prefer to leave the EU as well, so the emphasis is still on those who want to remain to ensure their arguments are compelling.

Does anyone think Boris will make a leadership bid if Cameron wins with only a very small margin? Or will he wait until Cameron stands down before the next election?

True - he is only stating the blindingly obvious. But it's sort of "confirmation" for those who might have any lingering doubts. Also not good "mood music".

As for Boris Johnson -

If "In" is successful Boris Johnson might be in a very similar position (but not the same position) as DC would be should "Out" prevail, although he (Boris Johnson) will probably choose to ride on the crest of the wave of disaffection and cries of "Foul!" within the Conservative Party. But, on balance, I don't think he'll immediately challenge a narrowly winning David Cameron. He won't wait long, though. He'll leave an "honourable" gap, respect the democratic will of the UK electorate etc etc and then, within a year and a half, stick the knife in. That'd be my guess.

Edited to add -

Make that 8 months.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:19 pm

canuckuk ‏@canuckuk 5h5 hours ago
@RealNatalieRowe Out of curiosity,how old (roughly,so to speak) is Olivia King? #referencingWhittingdalelie

Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe 3h3 hours ago
@canuckuk 40's

Dame Alun Roberts
‏@ciabaudo
@RealNatalieRowe @canuckuk So that means they're the best part of 20 years apart. How can Whitto say they were much the same age?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:20 pm

Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe 1h1 hour ago
@lambretta125tv I'll be talking on the radio V soon. Let's just see what the Press leave out. Then I can fill in the gaps

Jill Parton ‏@jillparton 1h1 hour ago
@RealNatalieRowe @lambretta125tv When and where on radio? Can we listen in?

Natalie Rowe
‏@RealNatalieRowe
@jillparton @lambretta125tv I'll let you know tomorrow after Sunday Papers are out X

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:24 pm

My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

This is definitely an "Oops!" post.

Teacher shortages 'of greater concern than full-scale academisation'

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation
Looming teacher shortages represent a bigger problem than turning every school in England into an academy, according to the head of one of the country’s largest and most successful academy chains.

Sir Daniel Moynihan, chief executive of the Harris Federation, which manages 37 academies in London, says rising house prices are making it almost impossible to keep talented teachers – and argues that education secretary Nicky Morgan’s determination to press ahead with full-scale academisation is a distraction.

“It’s always been an expectation that teaching is a respectable profession and you should be entitled to have somewhere to live,” Moynihan said in an interview with the Guardian. “But it’s not the case now, and nobody in politics is addressing it.

“That to me seems a far more fundamental thing to be worrying about than whether all schools should be academies by 2022.”

Moynihan expressed scepticism at the practicality of the government’s deadline of 2022 for every school to have moved to academy status, saying: “It’s really difficult to tell. It’s a big ask.”

Incidentally, he ruled himself out of being Wilshaw's successor - definitely wouldn't get it now having gone off-message with this.

“It’s always been an expectation that teaching is a respectable profession and you should be
entitled to have somewhere to live,” Moynihan said in an interview with the Guardian. “But
it’s not the case now, and nobody in politics is addressing it."

Yes, housing is an entitlement.
Tory government isn't addressing affordable housing.
Others in politics are addressing affordable housing.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!

Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!
Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.

I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 1:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!
Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.
I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.

I agree with you about the timing of the General Election. It won't come early - at least not on the back of the Referendum result.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:01 pm

Sir Daniel Moynihan offers a radical proposal: changes to planning regulations and the offer of government
finance would allow Harris and others to build low-cost housing, which they could then rent out to key
workers, including teachers.

“What the government should be doing is allow schools and education providers – and maybe the NHS
too – to identify surplus land and provide the funds to build housing for public sector workers. We’ve
put up over £200m worth of school building – we’ve built them very efficiently. Why couldn’t we also
build low cost housing for teachers?"

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds like a workhouse compound

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.
I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.
I agree with you about the timing of the General Election. It won't come early - at least not on the back of the Referendum result.

Don't underestimate how badly Dave's government screw things up prior 2020 making an earlier GE tenable to other Tories.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:04 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Sir Daniel Moynihan offers a radical proposal: changes to planning regulations and the offer of government
finance would allow Harris and others to build low-cost housing, which they could then rent out to key
workers, including teachers.

“What the government should be doing is allow schools and education providers – and maybe the NHS
too – to identify surplus land and provide the funds to build housing for public sector workers. We’ve
put up over £200m worth of school building – we’ve built them very efficiently. Why couldn’t we also
build low cost housing for teachers?"

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like a workhouse compound

Tied cottages?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:08 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Sir Daniel Moynihan offers a radical proposal: changes to planning regulations and the offer of government
finance would allow Harris and others to build low-cost housing, which they could then rent out to key
workers, including teachers.

“What the government should be doing is allow schools and education providers – and maybe the NHS
too – to identify surplus land and provide the funds to build housing for public sector workers. We’ve
put up over £200m worth of school building – we’ve built them very efficiently. Why couldn’t we also
build low cost housing for teachers?"

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like a workhouse compound

Tied cottages?

Nurses homes? Which, of course, we used to have - attached to hospitals - until the land became enticingly profitable and they got sold off for development and short term bolstering of hospital funds.

Or, perish the thought, we could even have social housing built for key workers in highly priced areas and offer it to them at a reasonable rent / shared ownership. These are probably the very higher value homes the government would like to sell off now.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:09 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!
Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.
I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.

In a bitter tory civil war, all it takes is a vote of no confidence in the govt. I can quite easily see the beaten part of the tory leadership struggle bringing down the govt, whichever side wins.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:11 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Sir Daniel Moynihan offers a radical proposal: changes to planning regulations and the offer of government
finance would allow Harris and others to build low-cost housing, which they could then rent out to key
workers, including teachers.

“What the government should be doing is allow schools and education providers – and maybe the NHS
too – to identify surplus land and provide the funds to build housing for public sector workers. We’ve
put up over £200m worth of school building – we’ve built them very efficiently. Why couldn’t we also
build low cost housing for teachers?"

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like a workhouse compound

So Harris gets free flats for its staff?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:12 pm

But if Lab and the SNP say no, there won't be an election. I can't see Tories risking losing their majority.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:13 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Sounds like a workhouse compound

Tied cottages?
Nurses homes? Which, of course, we used to have - attached to hospitals - until the land became enticingly profitable and they got sold off for development and short term bolstering of hospital funds.

True. But (and I speak from a position of total ignorance of the finer details) weren't they run on rather different lines and provided not as "mainstream" housing?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 18m18 minutes ago
Consolation if Brexit happens would be reassessment of austerity-untouched £3bn subsides to rich farmers. Tory RT Davies gets £97,000 a year
Very much in two minds about this issue - farmer subsidies and Brexit and what might happen. Was having a chat with another local activist yesterday and he and I were both positing that it was very unlikely that the small Welsh hill farmers would do well out of any Tory controlled re jigged subsidies. We can't quite work out why a relatively high proportion of such farmers seem to back Brexit ...
There is a vague chance that there might be more chance of pointing out the unfairness of subsidies going to large landowners who may not be producing anything or doing much to conserve the environment if it became a more direct subsidy system post Brexit. But who knows - we certainly shouldn't rely on the 'most transparent government ever'.

Cutting subsidies likely to increase food prices.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:19 pm

Clarke had been a bellend.

Last thing we need is a referendum on Cameron.

Still, nice bit of straight talking character bollocks.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote: Tied cottages?
Nurses homes? Which, of course, we used to have - attached to hospitals - until the land became enticingly profitable and they got sold off for development and short term bolstering of hospital funds.
True. But (and I speak from a position of total ignorance of the finer details) weren't they run on rather different lines and provided not as "mainstream" housing?

I'm in no doubt Moynihan wants workers living in private rental housing he
and his mates own collecting rent from workers used by their corporations.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:21 pm

Anyway teacher shortage isn't all down to house prices. Not expensive in Stoke. Reckon it finds it hard to attract high achieving teachers though.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 18m18 minutes ago
Consolation if Brexit happens would be reassessment of austerity-untouched £3bn subsides to rich farmers. Tory RT Davies gets £97,000 a year
Very much in two minds about this issue - farmer subsidies and Brexit and what might happen. Was having a chat with another local activist yesterday and he and I were both positing that it was very unlikely that the small Welsh hill farmers would do well out of any Tory controlled re jigged subsidies. We can't quite work out why a relatively high proportion of such farmers seem to back Brexit ...
There is a vague chance that there might be more chance of pointing out the unfairness of subsidies going to large landowners who may not be producing anything or doing much to conserve the environment if it became a more direct subsidy system post Brexit. But who knows - we certainly shouldn't rely on the 'most transparent government ever'.
Cutting subsidies likely to increase food prices.

A fair amount of the subsidies are not related to food production at all though Tubby. What about the big subsidies going to the owners of the grouse / pheasant shooting estates? Thinking in particular of that estate up above one of the recently flooded areas in the north that also indulges in burning off the scrub / vegetation that might have helped slow down some of the run off in the deluge.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:25 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Anyway teacher shortage isn't all down to house prices. Not expensive in Stoke. Reckon it finds it hard to attract high achieving teachers though.

You're absolutely right. Teachers wanted to do the work of two people receiving the salary of one considered okay compensation a decade ago. Sorry, no.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:26 pm

Moynihan might also fancy playing at property development, being bored with schools.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:28 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 18m18 minutes ago
Consolation if Brexit happens would be reassessment of austerity-untouched £3bn subsides to rich farmers. Tory RT Davies gets £97,000 a year
Very much in two minds about this issue - farmer subsidies and Brexit and what might happen. Was having a chat with another local activist yesterday and he and I were both positing that it was very unlikely that the small Welsh hill farmers would do well out of any Tory controlled re jigged subsidies. We can't quite work out why a relatively high proportion of such farmers seem to back Brexit ...
There is a vague chance that there might be more chance of pointing out the unfairness of subsidies going to large landowners who may not be producing anything or doing much to conserve the environment if it became a more direct subsidy system post Brexit. But who knows - we certainly shouldn't rely on the 'most transparent government ever'.
Cutting subsidies likely to increase food prices.

No, food prices would rise due to the fact the UK imports more food than currently grows. UK subsidies to land owners aren't necessarily food growers or growers of food crops intended for human consumption.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:31 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Moynihan might also fancy playing at property development, being bored with schools.

That's exactly what he wants. It's in the article. The Tory patron supporter of academies, Philip Harris, is specifically mentioned by Moynihan as the possible builder of rental dwelling units for teachers and other workers.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:33 pm

frightful_oik wrote:But if Lab and the SNP say no, there won't be an election. I can't see Tories risking losing their majority.

You're probably right. But current government are so damn dumb who knows.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:39 pm

I see Plaid all voted against HS2. Sure it doesn't go into North West Wales, but trains from there couldrun into Crewe and on to HS2 to London and Birmingham from 2027. Looks short sighted to me. Probably just storing up a trope for Welsh Elections.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 2:46 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Anyway teacher shortage isn't all down to house prices. Not expensive in Stoke. Reckon it finds it hard to attract high achieving teachers though.
You're absolutely right. Teachers wanted to do the work of two people receiving the salary of one considered okay compensation a decade ago. Sorry, no.

He might be finding that word has got round about teachers not lasting long at Harris before moving on. If my mate's other half is right, they are very heavily monitored by trust staff. Lots of visits to check up on what they're doing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:14 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Anyway teacher shortage isn't all down to house prices. Not expensive in Stoke. Reckon it finds it hard to attract high achieving teachers though.
You're absolutely right. Teachers wanted to do the work of two people receiving the salary of one considered okay compensation a decade ago. Sorry, no.
He might be finding that word has got round about teachers not lasting long at Harris before moving on. If my mate's other half is right, they are very heavily monitored by trust staff. Lots of visits to check up on what they're doing.

Yes, I neglected to mention the strain of being under some unaccountable's thumb capable of anything.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:20 pm

From yesterday's Guardian -

Boris Johnson urges crowd to interrupt live Channel 4 broadcast (Guardian)

If you read the article, you'll be hard-pushed to fathom how he could possibly have been, until very recently, "undecided". He's plunged into full Ukip-style bonkers mode. Someone should challenge him on this now total, and un-nuanced conversion.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... f-politics

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:21 pm

Harris will be OK with their prestige and CV value.

But there's no way a whole system can be run like they do.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:24 pm

https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... the-month/

Are the petitions committee not happy?

Petition of the month is a new feature overseen by the staff of the Petitions Committee. Find out about some of the most famous campaigns in history and how they started with a petition.

John Bellingham and the assassination of Spencer Perceval (April 2016)
In 1812 John Bellingham, a Liverpool merchant, assassinated Prime Minister Spencer Perceval after an unsuccessful attempt to petition Parliament.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:43 pm

Boris wasn't "undecided" a while back - he was actually pro-EU.

He will take whatever position he thinks will suit his short term personal interests - and a largely incurious and deferential media lets him get away with it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:48 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:My change of mind on the timing was because of the local elections. Or would he wait to get one set out of the way to see which way the wind is blowing? Ok. I don't know. There are so many factors to consider!
Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.
I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.

Normally it would play out as new leader, lots of turmoil [almost a foregone conclusion] and then going to the country, but this lot aren't normal. They're going to hang on squealing and kicking come what may.

Whether it's good or bad for the country as a whole, won't enter the equation.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:51 pm

PorFavor wrote:From yesterday's Guardian -

Boris Johnson urges crowd to interrupt live Channel 4 broadcast (Guardian)
If you read the article, you'll be hard-pushed to fathom how he could possibly have been, until very recently, "undecided". He's plunged into full Ukip-style bonkers mode. Someone should challenge him on this now total, and un-nuanced conversion.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... f-politics

Didn't I read - last week? - that Boris met Dave and they negotiated a position for Boris in Dave's cabinet?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:54 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Sir Daniel Moynihan offers a radical proposal: changes to planning regulations and the offer of government
finance would allow Harris and others to build low-cost housing, which they could then rent out to key
workers, including teachers.

“What the government should be doing is allow schools and education providers – and maybe the NHS
too – to identify surplus land and provide the funds to build housing for public sector workers. We’ve
put up over £200m worth of school building – we’ve built them very efficiently. Why couldn’t we also
build low cost housing for teachers?"

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... demisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like a workhouse compound

They used to do that. For factory workers, the police, firemen, nurses, etc when people had a 'job for life'. Then they [Con? Lab?] sold it all off....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 3:59 pm

Temulkar wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Don't fret yourself PF. Sit back and relax while you can - all the anxiety and effort should come from the Tories rather than us for a welcome change. We just have to be ready if - as Tem says - a snap election is on the cards. It just might be depending on who wants to go for and gets the next Tory leadership.
I can't see a general election happening before 2020, or certainly not before the boundary changes are implemented. If Cameron loses the referendum and a new leader is elected to negotiate Brexit, democratically speaking they should go to the nation to seek a mandate for their plans, I'm just not sure they would. After all, they might not win.
In a bitter tory civil war, all it takes is a vote of no confidence in the govt. I can quite easily see the beaten part of the tory leadership struggle bringing down the govt, whichever side wins.

I caught a bit of the Ken Clarke interview. I got the impression there's so much turmoil within the Tory Party that the unthinkable will happen and they'll become unelectable again.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 16 Apr, 2016 4:00 pm

Sorry to hear about Mr OhSo's wait for treatment.
Must be so worrying for you both, and you have to keep morale up which isn't easy in the circumstances.