Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th April 2016

[HindleA]

Government Faces Labour Questions Over Universal Credit Risks
Labour is to table questions on the government’s flagship welfare scheme after documents obtained under freedom of information showed a risk of fraudulent activity and cyberattacks.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/gove ... .yuxo0yqVN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... udget-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Five cabinet ministers’ constituencies ‘least hit by council budget cuts’

[HindleA]

Dame Judi Dench snogging Al Murray's bottom, not a sight you see everyday.

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ark-porter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Health Secretary writes to Chair of the BMA

[Hobiejoe]

Dame Judi Dench snogging Al Murray's bottom, not a sight you see everyday.

I'm all for a cryptic post but dammit man, it's nearly 2am and a chap needs links not assertions!

[HindleA]

Think Shakespeare,ASSertions.

[rebeccariots2]

So Hunt has rejected out of hand the compromise solution proffered by Labour, the doctors unions and other key players re the junior doctors contract.

That's not going to do his credibility any good. He should at least have *appeared* to consider it before he rejected it. Good on Heidi Alexander for trying to be constructive. Bodes well for her I think. But crap reaction from Hunt leaves the junior doctors, the NHS and patients up the creek ...

Morning all.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Dear me

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... Sugar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sadiq-Khan-single-handedly-wrecked-Labour-Party-says-Lord-Sugar

It doesn't even make sense semantically, because apparently Khan and Corbyn are Laurel & Hardy, so he hasn't really done it single handed

[rebeccariots2]

Raw Story ‏@RawStory 4h4 hours ago
WATCH: Springsteen honors Prince with moving rendition of ‘Purple Rain’ at Brooklyn concert http://ow.ly/4n1ySV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

[rebeccariots2]

Dear me

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... Sugar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sadiq-Khan-single-handedly-wrecked-Labour-Party-says-Lord-Sugar

It doesn't even make sense semantically, because apparently Khan and Corbyn are Laurel & Hardy, so he hasn't really done it single handed

It really is senseless. Why on earth does Lord Sugar feel the need to do this? Though I'd probably rather not know the answer to that.

[mbc1955]

Dear me

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... Sugar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sadiq-Khan-single-handedly-wrecked-Labour-Party-says-Lord-Sugar

It doesn't even make sense semantically, because apparently Khan and Corbyn are Laurel & Hardy, so he hasn't really done it single handed

It really is senseless. Why on earth does Lord Sugar feel the need to do this? Though I'd probably rather not know the answer to that.

Amongst his other... "attributes", let's say... Lord Sugar is a very rich man.

Do very rich men want a left-leaning Labour Party, engaged in representing the rights and needs of ordinary people, you know, the ones Sugar makes his money out of?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

It's an obvious way of getting at Corbyn, given his past associations.

And the way only people in some way linked with Labour are being highlighted, when it is easily possible to find others expressing similar views, is deeply cynical.

But all the same, there is a bit of a problem out there. Some on the left espouse a highly simplistic "anti-imperialist" worldview which in some cases can slip into outright conspiracy theorising - prominent in which, of course, are assertions about "the Jews" and "Zionism" (and that "Israel" runs the US/the world)

There is also the undoubted strain of anti-semitism within the Islamic world, which is also to be found in British Muslims.

So in summary, it is being exaggerated by some for their own often highly transparent purposes - but it is still something we have to be vigilant about.

[Willow904]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

I've noticed a conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel's actions as a state, lately. It seems a deliberate conflation to attack Labour and left-leaners, simply for insisting on viewing the human rights of Palestinians on a par with the human rights of Israelis. The real difficulty for Labour is that anti-Semitism unfortunately does appear to be a continuing problem within British society. I've seen it myself concerning a work colleague and a programme I saw recently on Channel 4 which looked at racial attitudes was a real eye opener. People giving away free food samples on a high street were compared and it seemed people were happier to accept a free sample from a pretty girl in a head scarf than a young man in a skullcap. Given the recent widespread conflation of Islam and terrorism in the press and from politicians, it was surprising to realise the Jewish man appeared to face more prejudice (though not especially surprising the pretty girl was more successful at giving away samples!). I guess I was just surprised the Jewish guy faced prejudice at all, given the innocuous nature of the role and with the black guy also giving away his samples more quickly and without apparently facing the same levels of potential distrust. It wasn't a very scientific test, but given an incident I witnessed at work some years ago, it adds to the sense I have that anti-Semitism is a real issue that does need to be taken seriously.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Thanks for all the above. Thoughtful discussion, as I expected here of course

[ephemerid]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

It's an obvious way of getting at Corbyn, given his past associations.

And the way only people in some way linked with Labour are being highlighted, when it is easily possible to find others expressing similar views, is deeply cynical.

But all the same, there is a bit of a problem out there. Some on the left espouse a highly simplistic "anti-imperialist" worldview which in some cases can slip into outright conspiracy theorising - prominent in which, of course, are assertions about "the Jews" and "Zionism" (and that "Israel" runs the US/the world)

There is also the undoubted strain of anti-semitism within the Islamic world, which is also to be found in British Muslims.

So in summary, it is being exaggerated by some for their own often highly transparent purposes - but it is still something we have to be vigilant about.

It's interesting, this.

There were more than a few accusations of anti-Semitism levelled against some quarters in the run-up to the GE - I have to say that some of the "looks weird" stuff Ed Miliband had to put up with had a whiff of it at times.....
I suspect that most of this latest stuff is, as Anatoly says, more about having a pop at Corbyn than anything else; anti-just-about-owt can be found in most places if you're looking for it.

I spent a bit of time at a kibbutz in the 80's. Not long - I was staying with a friend who was working there. Most of the people there came from European countries who had settled in Israel after WW2. The younger ones were not observant in their religion at all.
I'm inclined to think that the demographics there now are very different; kibbutzim are not as numerous, large, or welcoming as they were when I was there, and there are many more quite orthodox settlements seemingly replacing them.
My friends at Beit Zera - young Israelis included - struck me as being pretty laid back, and surprisingly tolerant, of Palestinians in the main; things have changed a lot now, and I have lost a lot of sympathy for the Israeli "cause" thanks to attacks on Gaza.

It is not anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist to deplore what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. It's anti-Israeli policy.
Personally, I doubt that many people in the UK really understand the difference between anti-Semitism (Jew hatred) and anti-Zionism (opposition to any Jewish state anywhere) and I think certain people are more than capable of cynically accusing others of either or both when in fact all they are guilty of is expressing their protest against Israeli government policy.

Corbyn - and plenty of other people - fall squarely into the latter group. Whilst I think it's important that politicians should be careful how they express their views, I think some people have another agenda when they see anti-this or anti-that every time someone they disapprove of opens their mouth. La Mensch is a prime example.
There is more anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia, and outright racism) on the right of our politics. We have only to look at the antics of Goldsmith and Boris over the past few days/weeks to know that. The masks are slipping there; and personally I think that the rise of UKIP is based on that far more than it's based on the EU, and I also think that many Tory-leaning voters feel the same way. I can't prove that, obviously; it's just my feeling....

[nickyinnorfolk]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

I've noticed a conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel's actions as a state, lately. It seems a deliberate conflation to attack Labour and left-leaners, simply for insisting on viewing the human rights of Palestinians on a par with the human rights of Israelis. The real difficulty for Labour is that anti-Semitism unfortunately does appear to be a continuing problem within British society. I've seen it myself concerning a work colleague and a programme I saw recently on Channel 4 which looked at racial attitudes was a real eye opener. People giving away free food samples on a high street were compared and it seemed people were happier to accept a free sample from a pretty girl in a head scarf than a young man in a skullcap. Given the recent widespread conflation of Islam and terrorism in the press and from politicians, it was surprising to realise the Jewish man appeared to face more prejudice (though not especially surprising the pretty girl was more successful at giving away samples!). I guess I was just surprised the Jewish guy faced prejudice at all, given the innocuous nature of the role and with the black guy also giving away his samples more quickly and without apparently facing the same levels of potential distrust. It wasn't a very scientific test, but given an incident I witnessed at work some years ago, it adds to the sense I have that anti-Semitism is a real issue that does need to be taken seriously.

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

[Temulkar]

I'm not sure anti-semitism is on the rise, but I do think that those who hold really repugnant views are far more comfortable espousing them than 20-30 years ago, because of hte situation in the middle east generally, as well as palestine.

I do also think, as Robert says, that some people are quick to conflate opposition to Israel's himan rights record to anti semitism, which only pours fuel on the fire.

[howsillyofme1]

Morning all

Just watching Marr on catch-up and wondering how the BBC can justify giving this platform, unchallenged to a fud like him?

He is a Tory mouthpiece and has that over-weening self-confidence and arrogance of the metropolitan wine-swilling media circus we have elevated to importance

He came up with a lot of shite but as normal Marr let him get away with it and it was only the other newspaper reviewer who challenge the bollocks that was coming out of his mouth

Again there was the challenge on 'extremism' about Khan going completely unchallenged but he was allowed to defend his mate blood-haired Cockwomble!

I am very, very angry at the BBC at the moment and am only writing this after my wife complaining of me swearing at the tv with the risk of me chucking something at the screen!

[nickyinnorfolk]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

It's an obvious way of getting at Corbyn, given his past associations.

And the way only people in some way linked with Labour are being highlighted, when it is easily possible to find others expressing similar views, is deeply cynical.

But all the same, there is a bit of a problem out there. Some on the left espouse a highly simplistic "anti-imperialist" worldview which in some cases can slip into outright conspiracy theorising - prominent in which, of course, are assertions about "the Jews" and "Zionism" (and that "Israel" runs the US/the world)

There is also the undoubted strain of anti-semitism within the Islamic world, which is also to be found in British Muslims.

So in summary, it is being exaggerated by some for their own often highly transparent purposes - but it is still something we have to be vigilant about.

It's interesting, this.

There were more than a few accusations of anti-Semitism levelled against some quarters in the run-up to the GE - I have to say that some of the "looks weird" stuff Ed Miliband had to put up with had a whiff of it at times.....
I suspect that most of this latest stuff is, as Anatoly says, more about having a pop at Corbyn than anything else; anti-just-about-owt can be found in most places if you're looking for it.

I spent a bit of time at a kibbutz in the 80's. Not long - I was staying with a friend who was working there. Most of the people there came from European countries who had settled in Israel after WW2. The younger ones were not observant in their religion at all.
I'm inclined to think that the demographics there now are very different; kibbutzim are not as numerous, large, or welcoming as they were when I was there, and there are many more quite orthodox settlements seemingly replacing them.
My friends at Beit Zera - young Israelis included - struck me as being pretty laid back, and surprisingly tolerant, of Palestinians in the main; things have changed a lot now, and I have lost a lot of sympathy for the Israeli "cause" thanks to attacks on Gaza.

It is not anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist to deplore what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. It's anti-Israeli policy.
Personally, I doubt that many people in the UK really understand the difference between anti-Semitism (Jew hatred) and anti-Zionism (opposition to any Jewish state anywhere) and I think certain people are more than capable of cynically accusing others of either or both when in fact all they are guilty of is expressing their protest against Israeli government policy.

Corbyn - and plenty of other people - fall squarely into the latter group. Whilst I think it's important that politicians should be careful how they express their views, I think some people have another agenda when they see anti-this or anti-that every time someone they disapprove of opens their mouth. La Mensch is a prime example.
There is more anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia, and outright racism) on the right of our politics. We have only to look at the antics of Goldsmith and Boris over the past few days/weeks to know that. The masks are slipping there; and personally I think that the rise of UKIP is based on that far more than it's based on the EU, and I also think that many Tory-leaning voters feel the same way. I can't prove that, obviously; it's just my feeling....

I think also the false charge of anti semitism seemed to gain some traction regarding Ken Livingstone, when Crosby was running Johnson's campaign. It's not working now though, and part of the reason Ken lost was due to him simply being around too long. Arguably Labour might have won with a different candidate.

Of course Livingstone also had the freebie Evening Standard doing bash Ken articles day after day - the editor got a well paid job via BoJo's auspices afterwards, which was totally corrupt. Under a new editor the Standard apologised but I understand they're hostile to Sadiq. Generally speaking, and London tends to be cosmopolitan and left leaning compared to the UK as a whole, people are wiseing up to the dirty tricks.

[ephemerid]

Refugee children.....

Under the Dublin III regulations, which enable unaccompanied minors stranded in Calais to enter the UK if they have relatives here, the Home Office has allowed just 20 of them in since a court case in January which confirmed that these children must be allowed entry.
The Home Office spent £50,000 of our money fighting this case; at the same time, it used the regulations to deport more than 700 people. It is estimated that there are 24,000 unaccompanied child refugees across Europe. Tomorrow the Commons will vote on accepting 3,000.

Basically, until now, the government has used the Dublin III regulations to deport people but ignored the part that they don't like.

Save the Children has reported that of 13,000 children who arrived unaccompanied in Italy in 2015, 4,000 simply disappeared. Workers in Italy also identified a significant number of children with sexually-transmitted diseases, which is absolutely chilling.
As the weather gets warmer, we can expect many more people attempting to cross the Med in unseaworthy craft - some of them will make it, and some of them will be unaccompanied children who may also have been sexually exploited/abused.

We as a country must do more to help.

[nickyinnorfolk]

Morning all

Just watching Marr on catch-up and wondering how the BBC can justify giving this platform, unchallenged to a fud like him?

He is a Tory mouthpiece and has that over-weening self-confidence and arrogance of the metropolitan wine-swilling media circus we have elevated to importance

He came up with a lot of shite but as normal Marr let him get away with it and it was only the other newspaper reviewer who challenge the bollocks that was coming out of his mouth

Again there was the challenge on 'extremism' about Khan going completely unchallenged but he was allowed to defend his mate blood-haired Cockwomble!

I am very, very angry at the BBC at the moment and am only writing this after my wife complaining of me swearing at the tv with the risk of me chucking something at the screen!

Agree - Toby Young is a cretin. He's another example of the Dunning Kruger effect made flesh.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.

(Wikipedia)

[Willow904]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

I've noticed a conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel's actions as a state, lately. It seems a deliberate conflation to attack Labour and left-leaners, simply for insisting on viewing the human rights of Palestinians on a par with the human rights of Israelis. The real difficulty for Labour is that anti-Semitism unfortunately does appear to be a continuing problem within British society. I've seen it myself concerning a work colleague and a programme I saw recently on Channel 4 which looked at racial attitudes was a real eye opener. People giving away free food samples on a high street were compared and it seemed people were happier to accept a free sample from a pretty girl in a head scarf than a young man in a skullcap. Given the recent widespread conflation of Islam and terrorism in the press and from politicians, it was surprising to realise the Jewish man appeared to face more prejudice (though not especially surprising the pretty girl was more successful at giving away samples!). I guess I was just surprised the Jewish guy faced prejudice at all, given the innocuous nature of the role and with the black guy also giving away his samples more quickly and without apparently facing the same levels of potential distrust. It wasn't a very scientific test, but given an incident I witnessed at work some years ago, it adds to the sense I have that anti-Semitism is a real issue that does need to be taken seriously.

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

Oh, they were all handing out the same food, doughnuts or something, like an employee giving out free samples in a promotion. They were trying to gauge whether any of the four - a black man, a Muslim woman in a headscarf, a Jewish man in a skullcap and (the same) Muslim woman in full niqab only showing her eyes - would face any kind of prejudice. The woman in niqab took by far the longest to give away her free samples. It was interesting, though unscientific. And she did give away all her free food eventually, so plenty of people had no problem with her dress. In the current climate it was not a surprise that she faced some prejudice, but I was surprised a little by the Jewish guy, who took the second longest.

[Willow904]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

It's an obvious way of getting at Corbyn, given his past associations.

And the way only people in some way linked with Labour are being highlighted, when it is easily possible to find others expressing similar views, is deeply cynical.

But all the same, there is a bit of a problem out there. Some on the left espouse a highly simplistic "anti-imperialist" worldview which in some cases can slip into outright conspiracy theorising - prominent in which, of course, are assertions about "the Jews" and "Zionism" (and that "Israel" runs the US/the world)

There is also the undoubted strain of anti-semitism within the Islamic world, which is also to be found in British Muslims.

So in summary, it is being exaggerated by some for their own often highly transparent purposes - but it is still something we have to be vigilant about.

It's interesting, this.

There were more than a few accusations of anti-Semitism levelled against some quarters in the run-up to the GE - I have to say that some of the "looks weird" stuff Ed Miliband had to put up with had a whiff of it at times.....
I suspect that most of this latest stuff is, as Anatoly says, more about having a pop at Corbyn than anything else; anti-just-about-owt can be found in most places if you're looking for it.

I spent a bit of time at a kibbutz in the 80's. Not long - I was staying with a friend who was working there. Most of the people there came from European countries who had settled in Israel after WW2. The younger ones were not observant in their religion at all.
I'm inclined to think that the demographics there now are very different; kibbutzim are not as numerous, large, or welcoming as they were when I was there, and there are many more quite orthodox settlements seemingly replacing them.
My friends at Beit Zera - young Israelis included - struck me as being pretty laid back, and surprisingly tolerant, of Palestinians in the main; things have changed a lot now, and I have lost a lot of sympathy for the Israeli "cause" thanks to attacks on Gaza.

It is not anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist to deplore what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. It's anti-Israeli policy.
Personally, I doubt that many people in the UK really understand the difference between anti-Semitism (Jew hatred) and anti-Zionism (opposition to any Jewish state anywhere) and I think certain people are more than capable of cynically accusing others of either or both when in fact all they are guilty of is expressing their protest against Israeli government policy.

Corbyn - and plenty of other people - fall squarely into the latter group. Whilst I think it's important that politicians should be careful how they express their views, I think some people have another agenda when they see anti-this or anti-that every time someone they disapprove of opens their mouth. La Mensch is a prime example.
There is more anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia, and outright racism) on the right of our politics. We have only to look at the antics of Goldsmith and Boris over the past few days/weeks to know that. The masks are slipping there; and personally I think that the rise of UKIP is based on that far more than it's based on the EU, and I also think that many Tory-leaning voters feel the same way. I can't prove that, obviously; it's just my feeling....

I definitely think there's an element here from the right trying to deflect criticism of their own racism with insinuations that Labour are just as racist so can't complain about that kind of thing. Not sure it's working, though. Peter Oborne seems to have found some principles of late and is really calling the Tories out on their cynical London Mayor campaign. With the criticism coming from outside the Labour party, their Corbyn discreditation strategy becomes obsolete.

[howsillyofme1]

Marr again

For a very rare time I am going to agree with Theresa May but wtf is Marr playing at completely making up things about border controls.....? He was completely wrong but kept coming back to something about what he was mistaken about

What is the chance of someone actually pulling him up and telling him what a twat he is being?

Also his question about EU citizens needing a visa....perhaps we should also look that people leaving the UK for EU holidays will need a full visa....and how well will this go down with our attempts to get free trade; or is it only aimed at the people from the 'East' and the nice Europeans can come in?

Is he a signed up Brexiteer as his questioning was incredibly poor, not based on fact and biased? It is the hardest time I have seen him give a Tory....completely ignoring the twattish things they have done....and contrast with his treatment of Young earlier when he was backing him up.

The only way we will know who is in the country and who has access to services is via an ID card system...and we know how well that went last time

[ohsocynical]

Dear me

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... Sugar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sadiq-Khan-single-handedly-wrecked-Labour-Party-says-Lord-Sugar

It doesn't even make sense semantically, because apparently Khan and Corbyn are Laurel & Hardy, so he hasn't really done it single handed

It really is senseless. Why on earth does Lord Sugar feel the need to do this? Though I'd probably rather not know the answer to that.

Amongst his other... "attributes", let's say... Lord Sugar is a very rich man.

Do very rich men want a left-leaning Labour Party, engaged in representing the rights and needs of ordinary people, you know, the ones Sugar makes his money out of?

I think that's likely.

[ohsocynical]

Can anyone explain to me what's behind the increasing calls of antisemitism?

Are there real concerns? Or is it whipped up hysteria by the right?

It's not a major issue in Huddersfield! So I don't really get a feel for it.

It's an obvious way of getting at Corbyn, given his past associations.

And the way only people in some way linked with Labour are being highlighted, when it is easily possible to find others expressing similar views, is deeply cynical.

But all the same, there is a bit of a problem out there. Some on the left espouse a highly simplistic "anti-imperialist" worldview which in some cases can slip into outright conspiracy theorising - prominent in which, of course, are assertions about "the Jews" and "Zionism" (and that "Israel" runs the US/the world)

There is also the undoubted strain of anti-semitism within the Islamic world, which is also to be found in British Muslims.

So in summary, it is being exaggerated by some for their own often highly transparent purposes - but it is still something we have to be vigilant about.

It's interesting, this.

There were more than a few accusations of anti-Semitism levelled against some quarters in the run-up to the GE - I have to say that some of the "looks weird" stuff Ed Miliband had to put up with had a whiff of it at times.....
I suspect that most of this latest stuff is, as Anatoly says, more about having a pop at Corbyn than anything else; anti-just-about-owt can be found in most places if you're looking for it.

I spent a bit of time at a kibbutz in the 80's. Not long - I was staying with a friend who was working there. Most of the people there came from European countries who had settled in Israel after WW2. The younger ones were not observant in their religion at all.
I'm inclined to think that the demographics there now are very different; kibbutzim are not as numerous, large, or welcoming as they were when I was there, and there are many more quite orthodox settlements seemingly replacing them.
My friends at Beit Zera - young Israelis included - struck me as being pretty laid back, and surprisingly tolerant, of Palestinians in the main; things have changed a lot now, and I have lost a lot of sympathy for the Israeli "cause" thanks to attacks on Gaza.

It is not anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist to deplore what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. It's anti-Israeli policy.
Personally, I doubt that many people in the UK really understand the difference between anti-Semitism (Jew hatred) and anti-Zionism (opposition to any Jewish state anywhere) and I think certain people are more than capable of cynically accusing others of either or both when in fact all they are guilty of is expressing their protest against Israeli government policy.

Corbyn - and plenty of other people - fall squarely into the latter group. Whilst I think it's important that politicians should be careful how they express their views, I think some people have another agenda when they see anti-this or anti-that every time someone they disapprove of opens their mouth. La Mensch is a prime example.
There is more anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia, and outright racism) on the right of our politics. We have only to look at the antics of Goldsmith and Boris over the past few days/weeks to know that. The masks are slipping there; and personally I think that the rise of UKIP is based on that far more than it's based on the EU, and I also think that many Tory-leaning voters feel the same way. I can't prove that, obviously; it's just my feeling....

Take twenty thumbs up...

[ohsocynical]

I've noticed a conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel's actions as a state, lately. It seems a deliberate conflation to attack Labour and left-leaners, simply for insisting on viewing the human rights of Palestinians on a par with the human rights of Israelis. The real difficulty for Labour is that anti-Semitism unfortunately does appear to be a continuing problem within British society. I've seen it myself concerning a work colleague and a programme I saw recently on Channel 4 which looked at racial attitudes was a real eye opener. People giving away free food samples on a high street were compared and it seemed people were happier to accept a free sample from a pretty girl in a head scarf than a young man in a skullcap. Given the recent widespread conflation of Islam and terrorism in the press and from politicians, it was surprising to realise the Jewish man appeared to face more prejudice (though not especially surprising the pretty girl was more successful at giving away samples!). I guess I was just surprised the Jewish guy faced prejudice at all, given the innocuous nature of the role and with the black guy also giving away his samples more quickly and without apparently facing the same levels of potential distrust. It wasn't a very scientific test, but given an incident I witnessed at work some years ago, it adds to the sense I have that anti-Semitism is a real issue that does need to be taken seriously.

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

Oh, they were all handing out the same food, doughnuts or something, like an employee giving out free samples in a promotion. They were trying to gauge whether any of the four - a black man, a Muslim woman in a headscarf, a Jewish man in a skullcap and (the same) Muslim woman in full niqab only showing her eyes - would face any kind of prejudice. The woman in niqab took by far the longest to give away her free samples. It was interesting, though unscientific. And she did give away all her free food eventually, so plenty of people had no problem with her dress. In the current climate it was not a surprise that she faced some prejudice, but I was surprised a little by the Jewish guy, who took the second longest.

I wonder if it's because if you asked, a great many people will vaguely know Jewish people have a lot of religious rites and beliefs that involves food. Dairy, Kosher etc., but not knowing a lot about it, tend to generalise and become wary?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Though we don't like to admit it, Boris was at the peak of his popularity circa 2012 and any Labour candidate would have found it hard to unseat him in that year's election.

(though I agree dear old Ken didn't help himself in some respects)

Certainly the claim in certain self interested Blairite circles that Oona King (KL's rival for the Labour nomination then) would have won is risible.

A lightweight who BJ would have had for breakfast

[StephenDolan]

Though we don't like to admit it, Boris was at the peak of his popularity circa 2012 and any Labour candidate would have found it hard to unseat him in that year's election.

(though I agree dear old Ken didn't help himself in some respects)

Certainly the claim in certain self interested Blairite circles that Oona King (KL's rival for the Labour nomination then) would have won is risible.

A lightweight who BJ would have had for breakfast

And yet Johnson scraped home!

[AnatolyKasparov]

Johnson fought a complacent campaign, partly due to polls generally overstating his position (days before the election Populus had him winning 56-44 IIRC)

That is of course an interesting contradiction of the much overworked meme that polls "always" overstate Labour and underplay the Tories - and there are other examples too. It shouldn't be forgotten, also, that pollsters have become much more pro-Tory in their assumptions since the GE "debacle" a year ago.

[ohsocynical]

‘it does appear that the British Prime Minister is pushing to protect and enlarge the British Trust industry, at the expense of traditional banking secrecy arrangements and for that reason we must ensure that there is absolutely no way that Trusts can be used as a way of wriggling out of international information exchange processes.’

http://www.taxjustice.net/2016/04/22/ta ... s-special/

[Willow904]

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

Oh, they were all handing out the same food, doughnuts or something, like an employee giving out free samples in a promotion. They were trying to gauge whether any of the four - a black man, a Muslim woman in a headscarf, a Jewish man in a skullcap and (the same) Muslim woman in full niqab only showing her eyes - would face any kind of prejudice. The woman in niqab took by far the longest to give away her free samples. It was interesting, though unscientific. And she did give away all her free food eventually, so plenty of people had no problem with her dress. In the current climate it was not a surprise that she faced some prejudice, but I was surprised a little by the Jewish guy, who took the second longest.

I wonder if it's because if you asked, a great many people will vaguely know Jewish people have a lot of religious rites and beliefs that involves food. Dairy, Kosher etc., but not knowing a lot about it, tend to generalise and become wary?

Maybe. It's impossible to know, isn't it. That's why I found it interesting but not very illuminating. People certainly reacted differently to the different people giving out food, but we don't know why. There were other experiments as well, but I don't remember them as clearly. I just came away with a very strong sense that although there is far less prejudice based on a person's skin colour these days than say, 30 or 40 years ago, we have an awful long way to go in terms of religious and cultural understanding and tolerance. Although sadly this year's Oscars underlined the need for constant vigilience just to maintain those advances in race equality achieved so far, let alone go any further.

[yahyah]

I've noticed a conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel's actions as a state, lately. It seems a deliberate conflation to attack Labour and left-leaners, simply for insisting on viewing the human rights of Palestinians on a par with the human rights of Israelis. The real difficulty for Labour is that anti-Semitism unfortunately does appear to be a continuing problem within British society. I've seen it myself concerning a work colleague and a programme I saw recently on Channel 4 which looked at racial attitudes was a real eye opener. People giving away free food samples on a high street were compared and it seemed people were happier to accept a free sample from a pretty girl in a head scarf than a young man in a skullcap. Given the recent widespread conflation of Islam and terrorism in the press and from politicians, it was surprising to realise the Jewish man appeared to face more prejudice (though not especially surprising the pretty girl was more successful at giving away samples!). I guess I was just surprised the Jewish guy faced prejudice at all, given the innocuous nature of the role and with the black guy also giving away his samples more quickly and without apparently facing the same levels of potential distrust. It wasn't a very scientific test, but given an incident I witnessed at work some years ago, it adds to the sense I have that anti-Semitism is a real issue that does need to be taken seriously.

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

Oh, they were all handing out the same food, doughnuts or something, like an employee giving out free samples in a promotion. They were trying to gauge whether any of the four - a black man, a Muslim woman in a headscarf, a Jewish man in a skullcap and (the same) Muslim woman in full niqab only showing her eyes - would face any kind of prejudice. The woman in niqab took by far the longest to give away her free samples. It was interesting, though unscientific. And she did give away all her free food eventually, so plenty of people had no problem with her dress. In the current climate it was not a surprise that she faced some prejudice, but I was surprised a little by the Jewish guy, who took the second longest.

It isn't necessarily prejudice or Islamophobia to feel uneasy when meeting someone wearing a full veil & only showing their eyes. Facial expressions, and our ability to read them are important and probably have been since we started walking on two legs. Science suggests that observing facial features is linked to the amygdala part of the 'old' brain which deals with emotions like fear, anger wtc

Imagine one of the people giving out food samples was wearing a balaclava with only their eyes showing, that would have the same effect of not being able to gain an impression of the person via facial clues. So if someone chooses to cover most of their face they shouldn't be surprised if perception of them by others is affected. It may have nothing to do with what the observer thinks or feels about Islamic religious or another cultural tradition to cover oneself.

http://psych.nyu.edu/freemanlab/pubs/20 ... JNeuro.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ohsocynical]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... party.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Ouch!!!

[refitman]

According to a "former Labour strageist", on the Sunday Politics, Corbyn is going through his "honeymoon period". Has he not been paying attention to anything?

[ohsocynical]

Regarding the food, I suppose most people are used to Indian/Pakistani food and Nadiya from the Great British Bake Off enhanced Muslim culinary reputation. Possibly some people are quite racist but still fancy themselves as heirs to empire by patronising Indian restaurants. Jewish food is a bit of an unknown by comparison. As far as I know food plays a huge part in Jewish celebrations.

Oh, they were all handing out the same food, doughnuts or something, like an employee giving out free samples in a promotion. They were trying to gauge whether any of the four - a black man, a Muslim woman in a headscarf, a Jewish man in a skullcap and (the same) Muslim woman in full niqab only showing her eyes - would face any kind of prejudice. The woman in niqab took by far the longest to give away her free samples. It was interesting, though unscientific. And she did give away all her free food eventually, so plenty of people had no problem with her dress. In the current climate it was not a surprise that she faced some prejudice, but I was surprised a little by the Jewish guy, who took the second longest.

It isn't necessarily prejudice or Islamophobia to feel uneasy when meeting someone wearing a full veil & only showing their eyes. Facial expressions, and our ability to read them are important and probably have been since we started walking on two legs. Science suggests that observing facial features is linked to the amygdala part of the 'old' brain which deals with emotions like fear, anger wtc

Imagine one of the people giving out food samples was wearing a balaclava with only their eyes showing, that would have the same effect of not being able to gain an impression of the person via facial clues. So if someone chooses to cover most of their face they shouldn't be surprised if perception of them by others is affected. It may have nothing to do with what the observer thinks or feels about Islamic religious or another cultural tradition to cover oneself.

http://psych.nyu.edu/freemanlab/pubs/20 ... JNeuro.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My bold.

Even before we started walking on two legs.

[yahyah]

More about Whittingdale. For a naive & innocent old romantic he certainly leads an exciting life.

[refitman]

Lucy Powell doing well against Andrew Neil on BBCDP, especially when he tried to take her comments about the Tories plans for schools ("most secondaries and primaries will be academies by 2020") and implied they were Labour policy.

[yahyah]

A Lib Dem AM is doing a Plaid and asking Labour voters to vote for them to keep UKIP out.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... r-11233015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a shame the ballot paper doesn't allow you to indicate whether your vote is being 'lent' to a party you don't primarily support.
Then we'd get a much better indication of how people really feel about each party

[rebeccariots2]

According to a "former Labour strageist", on the Sunday Politics, Corbyn is going through his "honeymoon period". Has he not been paying attention to anything?

[rebeccariots2]

A Lib Dem AM is doing a Plaid and asking Labour voters to vote for them to keep UKIP out.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... r-11233015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a shame the ballot paper doesn't allow you to indicate whether your vote is being 'lent' to a party you don't primarily support.
Then we'd get a much better indication of how people really feel about each party

She predicates her proposal on very dodgy reasoning

“Even Labour insiders know, in their heart of hearts, that it’s unlikely that they will pick up regional Assembly Members. Therefore, Labour voters must consider lending their regional vote to the Welsh Liberal Democrats to stop Ukip.

That's a ludicrous suggestion for mid and west Wales where it is pretty unlikely Labour will win Preseli Pembs or Ceredigion constituency seats so both the constituency and regional list votes are very important as we hope to pick up 2 regional seats on the basis of the total number of votes cast for Labour. Very dodgy suggestion especially when she doesn't back it up by saying exactly where this will help to keep Ukip out ... because it certainly isn't in most areas.

[yahyah]

Usual Lib Dem rot. If they can't use a dodgy bar chart then something else will do.

We finally got our postal vote forms yesterday. The postie said they are the second lot....we didn't even get the first wrong ones.

[ephemerid]

1. La Mensch and her obsession with anti-Semitism......and Lo! it came to pass (again). See today's Zelo Street.....there could be ructions!
She is beginning to sound unhinged. Generally, not just in relation to this issue.

2. Ex-labour-strategists....Dear Bloggs, there is a reason why you are "ex". Something to do with your part in Labour's election loss. Bye bye.
I follow @TomLondon6 on Twitter. He said this - "Helpful advice to Corbyn's opponents in the Labour Party. Simply recruit hundreds of
thousands of new members who agree with you." Sage advice, "exes". Please feel free to take it.

[StephenDolan]

Blimey, sub 100 posts in a weekend thread, has the weather been that good?

[ohsocynical]

Rachael ‏@Rachael_Swindon 18m18 minutes ago

Looks like BHS is going under with 11,000 jobs at risk. Further proof of your failing long term economic disaster @David_Cameron

[TR'sGhost]

1. La Mensch and her obsession with anti-Semitism......and Lo! it came to pass (again). See today's Zelo Street.....there could be ructions!
She is beginning to sound unhinged. Generally, not just in relation to this issue.

Beginning?

Mensch is heading at high speed, and I suspect quite deliberately, for full-on Ann Coulter or Pamela Geller status. There's a nice and (not so) little earner to be made in the States if you're a vocal, photogenic woman with barking mad knee-jerk right wing tendencies.

[RogerOThornhill]

Rachael ‏@Rachael_Swindon 18m18 minutes ago

Looks like BHS is going under with 11,000 jobs at risk. Further proof of your failing long term economic disaster @David_Cameron

The writing has been on the wall for BHS for a long while now once Philip Green got out last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_H ... tructuring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TR'sGhost]

21,800 postal ballot papers scrapped...and other news

As the Herald reports, the potential for electoral chaos is on the cards with over 20,000 postal ballot papers for the Regional Assembly election being scrapped, at unknown cost, after an error was discovered. The ballot papers cover three counties and the error, in the instructions of how to vote, was not detected until they'd been sent out. Ceredigion, Preseli Pembrokeshire, and Carmarthen West and South Pembs being the areas affected, Carms East and Dinefwr, Llanelli, are not.

The Electoral Commission declared that the error was misleading for voters and despite the Returning Officer Mark James, legally responsible for the smooth running of the regional vote, seeking advice from 'the leading QC in the country' the papers had to be reprinted.

The Returning Officer, who can receive a fee of up to £4,730 for each constituency, blamed the mess on a 'most unfortunate error by the printers' which is interesting as it could be assumed perhaps that the printers would print the template given to them, not be responsible for the actual content.

Anyway, the problem now is that many of those who received a postal vote ballot paper may have already voted. Their vote will not count and they will have to vote again when the new papers, and new prepaid envelopes, arrive. Many who vote by post are elderly or vulnerable people and this mess could cause confusion and, at the very least, a reluctance to trek out to the postbox to recast their vote...

http://carmarthenplanning.blogspot.co.u ... edand.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's quite possible for printers to foul up and not print quite what they were sent.

Which is why, when getting anything printed, common sense says you send them your material in the form they request. Then they supply you with a proof copy that you check against your original. Assuming the proof is correct you then, and only then, give the go-ahead for them to print the full run.

And when it's printed and delivered to you, you pull a copy out of the bundle and, again, check that what the printers have done matches what they should have done. If it does, then, and only then, you distribute it.

Such has been the way of doing things ever since printing and printers was invented. It's why publishers employ proof readers.

Someone, in fact several different someones, should have proofed those ballot papers before they were sent out.

[ohsocynical]

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2h2 hours ago

William Hill say there's been seen a surge of bets for a IN bets following Obama’s comments. Price slashed from 4/9 to 2/7