Thursday 28th April 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 3:05 am

Morning

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ly-illegal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Equality watchdog warns junior doctors' contract is potentially illegal

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 6:32 am

Morning all.

Steve Bell on the Hillsborough disaster – cartoon

http://gu.com/p/4ty2h" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 6:46 am

Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 7:05 am

And Owen Jones.
Think Hillsborough couldn’t happen today? Think again

http://gu.com/p/4tkqy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' that combination of unaccountable power and othering persists, contributing to unavoidable suffering. Miners were violent, militant subversives, Liverpool fans scummy hooligans. Today, whenever I write about refugees I am bombarded with messages describing them all as rapists, criminals, bigots who hurl gay men from rooftops. Such attitudes make it easier for the Conservatives to refuse to take in 3,000 refugee children, even as child abusers and traffickers circle.

“Muslim” has become a synonym for “extremist” and “terrorist sympathiser”. Benefit claimants are widely seen as lazy fraudsters stealing from hard-working Brits. All of these groups lack meaningful power in modern Britain. All, to varying degrees, are robbed of their humanity. They are, quite frankly, seen as having less worth than other human beings. And that, all too often, is a necessary precondition for injustice '

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 8:32 am

Morfternoon....

Hoping to be back later but a quick bit of link/picture-monkeying....following on from the new list of Tory shame from Oh So, I'm not sure if anyone saw the response from Imam Suliman Gani following Clouncy Funts (possibly racist?) slurs at the Despatch Box...

: imamtrue234897.PNG (212.03 KiB) Viewed 7511 times

...I'm not so sure this will go away for either Zac, AF Neil or Clouncy....and again, apologies if previously linked, but as with Whippingfail, there's more to come on the Panama Papers...

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists will release on May 9 a searchable database with information on more than 200,000 offshore entities that are part of the Panama Papers investigation.
The database will likely be the largest ever release of secret offshore companies and the people behind them.

https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160426- ... -soon.html

For me, the point with the whole 'tax evasion/avoidance/offshoring/but it's legal guv, honest' was encapsulated nicely by that Britain-hating scourge of the Brexiteers, Mr Obama...

In the U.S., where several states act as tax havens for people from all over the world, President Barack Obama commented on the Panama Papers revelations and said global tax avoidance facilitated by secrecy jurisdictions is “a huge problem.” The president added that “a lot of it is legal, but that’s exactly the problem. It’s not that they’re breaking the laws, it’s that the laws are so poorly designed.”

Good to see the people of Liverpool (supported by a vast majority of those of us who've been on the wrong side of the power in the Class War for the last howevermany years) finally getting the truth....and as posted last night by HindleA....now for the justice.

Poodle tip!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:30 am

Good-morning, everyone, beautiful, sunny day
I hear some birdsong

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:32 am

Rob Merrick Retweeted
Morning Star ‏@M_Star_Online 14h14 hours ago
Tory MP joins pickets in thanks for first-rate care | http://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4966-T ... yEGIj-6Dm0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … #juniordoctorsstrike

Huw Merriman. He also spoke to Jeremy Hunt the evening before to urge him to get back round the table.

Decency - good to see.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:37 am

I have to go off to work will be back later. But can someone explain to me how the anti-Semitism that supposedly is rife in Labour 'is attached to Corbyn' as those peers have claimed? The Naz Shah comments were made before she was even an MP - and way before Corbyn was leader. How does something apparently so rife appear in six months?

This is not a denial that there are people holding and expressing such views ... but I can't quite see how it mostly relates to Corbyn as some are suggesting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:43 am

@HindleA
Lovely posts on yesterday's thread - thank you

Working for justice and fairness for all the people is a loving action
Life dedicated to this loving isn't a passive activity
Loving peace isn't keeping quiet when words and action are required

My dedication to non-violent action isn't easy
Creative venturesomeness, hot beverages and baked goods are essential

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:46 am

StephenDolan wrote:Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.

My goodness, that's a powerful piece of writing. Worth saving I think.

In recent years all the cries of 'The class war is dead' made me so angry because it'll never go away, and if this government isn't proof positive then I don't know what is.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:57 am

StephenDolan wrote:Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.

I have been as big a defender of the BBC as anyone over the years of this government but after last night even I have now decided their news and current affairs output has gone beyond the pail.

On a day when the Hillsborough tragedy rightly took centre stage across the rest of the media Newsnight joined with the Murdoch press and relegated it to the equivalent of the back pages by relegating it to a short conversation of secondary importance.

So what took centre stage.......why has Labour got a anti Semite problem. Now I have stated here previously that what Naz Shah did was reprehensible and is not acceptable on any stage, platform or publication and she rightly (in my view) has been suspended from the party. Indeed if the Labour party has an anti Semite problem then they should investigate and root out anyone who has these views.

But.........please on a such a day when the 99% of the population has its eyes on Liverpool and its people to pretend this is the major story of the day is crass and insensitive. This followed on from the attempt to ramp up the problem by our beloved leader at PMQs for obvious electoral advantage in the London election. If they thought it is a burning issue why not have the discussion tonight? And are there not other burning issues that deserve their attention such as, oh lets think, steel crisis, electoral fraud, John Whittingdale,EU referendum even the medias collusion with the South Yorkshire Police I could go on and on. So why today of all days did we get this subject.

The BBC has always been an establishment poodle but has now turned into an extension of the Conservative media machine in the same way as the Evening Standard was described yesterday. I have complained previously to them but get the same corporate reply each time which basically equates to we are right and you are wrong so now I am going to vote with my remote and find my news and analysis elsewhere.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:58 am

I know the Guardian has lost much of its reputation in recent years, but it seems to me that lately they are beginning to put some strong, punchy articles on their pages.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 9:59 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I have to go off to work will be back later. But can someone explain to me how the anti-Semitism that supposedly is rife in Labour 'is attached to Corbyn' as those peers have claimed? The Naz Shah comments were made before she was even an MP - and way before Corbyn was leader. How does something apparently so rife appear in six months?

This is not a denial that there are people holding and expressing such views ... but I can't quite see how it mostly relates to Corbyn as some are suggesting.

I remain a bit confused about these allegations.

Corbyn has, with some justification, deplored the encroachment of Jewish settlements on the West Bank, deplored the aggressive tactics in Gaza by the Israeli government/army - and he is far from alone in that.
Does that make him an anti-Semite? No. Does that make him an anti-Zionist? No. It makes him someone who, like many others, recognise the state of Palestine's right to exist alongside the State of Israel.

Neither the Israelis not the Palestinians have covered themselves in glory since 1948. This conflict has been going on for a very long time. But there have been periods of peace, and it should, in theory, be possible for that to happen again.

It seems to me that Johnson and Goldsmith get a free pass to be as racist as they like - but when one immature and foolish young woman posts nasty things before she became an MP, apologises, gets suspended as per party policy, all of a sudden Labour has this massive problem and it's all Corbyn's fault.

I don't get it.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:00 am

ohsocynical wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.
My goodness, that's a powerful piece of writing. Worth saving I think.

In recent years all the cries of 'The class war is dead' made me so angry because it'll never go away, and if this government isn't proof positive then I don't know what is.

I think it was Warren Buffet who said that the class war does still exist but its waged by the 1% against the 99%

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:03 am

ScarletGas wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.
I have been as big a defender of the BBC as anyone over the years of this government but after last night even I have now decided their news and current affairs output has gone beyond the pail.

On a day when the Hillsborough tragedy rightly took centre stage across the rest of the media Newsnight joined with the Murdoch press and relegated it to the equivalent of the back pages by relegating it to a short conversation of secondary importance.

So what took centre stage.......why has Labour got a anti Semite problem. Now I have stated here previously that what Naz Shah did was reprehensible and is not acceptable on any stage, platform or publication and she rightly (in my view) has been suspended from the party. Indeed if the Labour party has an anti Semite problem then they should investigate and root out anyone who has these views.

But.........please on a such a day when the 99% of the population has its eyes on Liverpool and its people to pretend this is the major story of the day is crass and insensitive. This followed on from the attempt to ramp up the problem by our beloved leader at PMQs for obvious electoral advantage in the London election. If they thought it is a burning issue why not have the discussion tonight? And are there not other burning issues that deserve their attention such as, oh lets think, steel crisis, electoral fraud, John Whittingdale,EU referendum even the medias collusion with the South Yorkshire Police I could go on and on. So why today of all days did we get this subject.

The BBC has always been an establishment poodle but has now turned into an extension of the Conservative media machine in the same way as the Evening Standard was described yesterday. I have complained previously to them but get the same corporate reply each time which basically equates to we are right and you are wrong so now I am going to vote with my remote and find my news and analysis elsewhere.

Take twenty thumbs up...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:28 am

DFH claims, with typical balanced objectivity, that Corbyn's election "has made anti-semitism acceptable" in the Labour party.

If so, we can only conclude that the present Labour leader has powers hitherto unsuspected - including the ability to bend time. After all, most of the recent controversies (Naz Shah being the latest) involve things that were said/done before the last GE - and nearly all the people investigated for this were party members before the last leadership contest.

Given that, maybe Jez can do this week's Super 6 for me as well?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:42 am

Blimey, AS has linked to a couple of good blogs over this "Labour problem" theme.
https://opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-ster ... ponents-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:43 am

StephenDolan wrote:Moore on the money.

The Hillsborough verdict shatters the fantasy that class war doesn’t exist

http://gu.com/p/4tyvh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watched the ITV News last night for the first time in a long long time. Adios BBC.

from btl

Peter Nexus
The working class only had power and won rights because it fought for them. Rights are not bestowed by Brussels as the metropolitan left seem to believe. They are won and defended by ordinary peopke in every workplace in the land. That means solidarity with our fellow humans - which most of the nation now laugh at but which still survives in some northern cities, not least Liverpool. No wonder the establishment tried to destroy them. The Liverpool families are a sign that we remain strong and unbowed and - if we learned to support each other as we used to and stopped competing with and resenting each other - we would win once more.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:55 am

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... government" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit cuts can have a devastating effect on mental health – just ask Sharon
Frances Ryan

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:58 am

Syria conflict: MSF says deadly air strike hit Aleppo hospital - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36158947" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shocking. What happened to Cameron's Syrian Moderates btw?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 10:59 am

StephenDolan wrote: Shocking. What happened to Cameron's Syrian Moderates btw?

They're about as real as Michael Dugher's army of Labour "moderates" that will supposedly save us all from the Jezza Terror?

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:02 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I have to go off to work will be back later. But can someone explain to me how the anti-Semitism that supposedly is rife in Labour 'is attached to Corbyn' as those peers have claimed? The Naz Shah comments were made before she was even an MP - and way before Corbyn was leader. How does something apparently so rife appear in six months?

This is not a denial that there are people holding and expressing such views ... but I can't quite see how it mostly relates to Corbyn as some are suggesting.

I came to this via a comment the Andrew Sparrow blog - can't remember who it was.

https://opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-ster ... ponents-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I felt much better after reading it. The Corbyn point is dealt with thoroughly.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:07 am

Streeting, again. Quelle Surprise!

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:15 am

StephenDolan wrote:Blimey, AS has linked to a couple of good blogs over this "Labour problem" theme.
https://opendemocracy.net/uk/jamie-ster ... ponents-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, didn't see your post when I linked to the same blog.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:15 am

Yep, we can't upset Turkey and its increasingly megalomaniac strongman any more than we can upset Saudi and the other Gulf despots.

But look over there! Corbyn met somebody a bit dodgy once!!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:27 am

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/a ... les-dennis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Sun to face trial over phone-hacking claims

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 11:45 am

Cynically. There is nothing much they can pin on Corbyn, so Anti-Semetism is as good as anything.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:16 pm

Cynically again. Is this what the Bitterites meant to do to Corbyn regarding the Mayorial election? Some suspicious names on the list.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... ded-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:17 pm

Ken has always been like that, but there was a time when his undoubted virtues made it a price worth paying.

These days, he is depressingly like those old bores you see spouting off in pubs. Time for him to - finally - retire.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:21 pm

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... -isnt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Telegraph’s Junior Doctor Isn’t
After the Telegraph found a junior doctor who was prepared to endorse the new NHS England contract being imposed on his colleagues by Jeremy Hunt (the former Culture Secretary), the established part of the Fourth Estate wasted no time in singing the praises of Adam Dalby. The Sun lifted his article. Dalby even got a mention in the Guardian. But nobody stopped to look at his background first.

After seeing him on BBC News, my husband checked him out and discovered he's a Tory party member and has more experience as a veterinary practice administrator than any thing else. So he may well be happy to accept Hunt's new junior doctor contract, but it's all rather theoretical given he isn't actually a junior doctor as yet. My husband kept asking me why all the media outlets were featuring him. I suggested it was because he was literally the only "junior doctor" they could find who was willing to support imposition.

The actual working junior doctor that put the striking doctor's side doesn't appear to have any political connections as far as my husband could find and he also made a point that was very sadly backed up by a news item today - that hospitals have been understaffed for some time, that the strike, far from putting patients at risk from staff shortages, which will be covered by senior staff, is trying to prevent ongoing staff shortages in future that won't be. Here's the sad story for those who can bear it:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... er-7844123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:31 pm

Thought yesterday BTL on Andrew Sparrow was bad. Today the whole thing has become hysterical nonsense. Can't look at it anymore.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:42 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... -isnt.html

Telegraph’s Junior Doctor Isn’t
After the Telegraph found a junior doctor who was prepared to endorse the new NHS England contract being imposed on his colleagues by Jeremy Hunt (the former Culture Secretary), the established part of the Fourth Estate wasted no time in singing the praises of Adam Dalby. The Sun lifted his article. Dalby even got a mention in the Guardian. But nobody stopped to look at his background first.
After seeing him on BBC News, my husband checked him out and discovered he's a Tory party member and has more experience as a veterinary practice administrator than any thing else. So he may well be happy to accept Hunt's new junior doctor contract, but it's all rather theoretical given he isn't actually a junior doctor as yet. My husband kept asking me why all the media outlets were featuring him. I suggested it was because he was literally the only "junior doctor" they could find who was willing to support imposition.

The actual working junior doctor that put the striking doctor's side doesn't appear to have any political connections as far as my husband could find and he also made a point that was very sadly backed up by a news item today - that hospitals have been understaffed for some time, that the strike, far from putting patients at risk from staff shortages, which will be covered by senior staff, is trying to prevent ongoing staff shortages in future that won't be. Here's the sad story for those who can bear it:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... er-7844123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw Dalby on Channel 4 News the other evening, debating with a young woman doctor who put the junior doctors' case very well. Dalby looked increasingly uneasy. The presenter was sceptical enough to ask Dalby if he was a Conservative supporter, and Dalby looked shifty and said he had been 'in the past' and he'd also been a LibDem (as if that let him off the hook).

It's beyond infuriating the amount of air time Dalby has been allowed. At least Channel 4 News questioned his politic motivation - they could have looked further into his suitability as a guest though.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:44 pm

Maeght wrote:Thought yesterday BTL on Andrew Sparrow was bad. Today the whole thing has become hysterical nonsense. Can't look at it anymore.

I am glad that I am only an occasional visitor (and contributor) to their comment pages now.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:48 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... -isnt.html

Telegraph’s Junior Doctor Isn’t
After the Telegraph found a junior doctor who was prepared to endorse the new NHS England contract being imposed on his colleagues by Jeremy Hunt (the former Culture Secretary), the established part of the Fourth Estate wasted no time in singing the praises of Adam Dalby. The Sun lifted his article. Dalby even got a mention in the Guardian. But nobody stopped to look at his background first.
After seeing him on BBC News, my husband checked him out and discovered he's a Tory party member and has more experience as a veterinary practice administrator than any thing else. So he may well be happy to accept Hunt's new junior doctor contract, but it's all rather theoretical given he isn't actually a junior doctor as yet. My husband kept asking me why all the media outlets were featuring him. I suggested it was because he was literally the only "junior doctor" they could find who was willing to support imposition.

The actual working junior doctor that put the striking doctor's side doesn't appear to have any political connections as far as my husband could find and he also made a point that was very sadly backed up by a news item today - that hospitals have been understaffed for some time, that the strike, far from putting patients at risk from staff shortages, which will be covered by senior staff, is trying to prevent ongoing staff shortages in future that won't be. Here's the sad story for those who can bear it:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... er-7844123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bristol Children's Hostpital holds a very special place in my heart. I was born with extra bits - Kidneys bladder urethra etc - as a child I spent many many months in BCH undegoing operations and investigations. Had it not been for the superb treatment, I would have died, in another era I would have died. Sometimes in the late night my grandfather would turn up and charm the nurses by playing an old banjolele that was sitting on the ward - I have no idea when he learned to play that - and singing the filthy versions of Formby's songs that didnt make the films, and dishing out bottles of IPA or stout. When Happy Go Lucky Me was being used for an advert recently, I was reminded of it. He lost a brother, sister and father because there was no NHS, and was so proud of the people who worked in it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:49 pm

This made me chuckle. On #EdBallsDay

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... f7bed55e96" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:50 pm

ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I have to go off to work will be back later. But can someone explain to me how the anti-Semitism that supposedly is rife in Labour 'is attached to Corbyn' as those peers have claimed? The Naz Shah comments were made before she was even an MP - and way before Corbyn was leader. How does something apparently so rife appear in six months?

This is not a denial that there are people holding and expressing such views ... but I can't quite see how it mostly relates to Corbyn as some are suggesting.

I remain a bit confused about these allegations.

Corbyn has, with some justification, deplored the encroachment of Jewish settlements on the West Bank, deplored the aggressive tactics in Gaza by the Israeli government/army - and he is far from alone in that.
Does that make him an anti-Semite? No. Does that make him an anti-Zionist? No. It makes him someone who, like many others, recognise the state of Palestine's right to exist alongside the State of Israel.

Neither the Israelis not the Palestinians have covered themselves in glory since 1948. This conflict has been going on for a very long time. But there have been periods of peace, and it should, in theory, be possible for that to happen again.

It seems to me that Johnson and Goldsmith get a free pass to be as racist as they like - but when one immature and foolish young woman posts nasty things before she became an MP, apologises, gets suspended as per party policy, all of a sudden Labour has this massive problem and it's all Corbyn's fault.

I don't get it.

Maybe it's got more than one aim:
Weakening Muslim support for Labour: By linking anti-Zionist views with anti-semitism, it makes it harder for Labour to support Palestinian cause
Any clamp down on this is going to risk alienating some Muslim members/support

Weakening Corbyn, partly because he's shared platform with what could people who could be accused of at very least anti-zionism, but otherwise just because.

Weakening Sadiq Khan,(although he's now calling for Ken Livingstone to go)

Possibly shutting down anti Israeli protest, by trying to associate it with anti-semitism

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 1:23 pm

Jesus wept.

Mann needs suspending after that behaviour IMHO.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 1:23 pm

Wow, wasn't expecting that from Jon Lansman - absolutely brutal about Ken.

And he has now been suspended from the party, which presumably means he can't stand in this year's NEC elections. Not that I was going to vote for him anyway......

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 1:46 pm

Blooming ada. I went into town for my first Mindfulness CBT treatment session thinking the row may have quietened down by this afternoon. It's gone nuclear instead.

Haven't heard what John Mann said yet, but to be fair to him his Twitter account has often been littered by anti-semites posting nasty stuff including Nazi era type revolting stereotype cartoons of Jewish men.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 1:50 pm

Ken Livingstone really is an arse. He has form on this, I remember his capo remark, he constantly gives the militants in progress ammunition to divide the party. A complete knob basket as well as an interpretation of the transfer policy that is frankly Irvinesque.

This will stifle valid criticism of Israels human rights record in Palestine, as well as being a great dead cat to distract from the multiple failures of the government.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 1:59 pm

Mann has undoubtedly been a bit of an arse as well, and apparently is going to be spoken to by the whips.

Of course, both he and Ken have one big thing in common - an almost insatiable appetite for self publicity.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:03 pm

A cynic might say that the polls are looking good for Corbyn before the locals, which really isnt what a certain faction - lets call it the party within the party - want to see.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Mann has undoubtedly been a bit of an arse as well, and apparently is going to be spoken to by the whips.

Of course, both he and Ken have one big thing in common - an almost insatiable appetite for self publicity.

And to hell will the consequences!

My father always told me to think before I opened my mouth-I wish he could have given them both the same advice.

Oh and now the hypocrite personified that is David Cameron has given us the benefit of his opinion. I am damn sure that someone who ignores the plight of innocent refugee children should be denounced in exactly the same terms of an anti Semite. Both are discrimination and a disgrace in my eyes.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:11 pm

Why has the Guardian closed AS's blog for comments ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:18 pm

Frances Perraudin ‏@fperraudin 38m38 minutes ago

Guardian's politics live blog has closed comments because of "hate and abuse" below the line

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 980af1706b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:24 pm

Arguably that should have happened a *long* time ago.

But it was the Graun top brass who decided they favoured clicks at any price above their loyal long standing contributors.

They are now having to deal with the consequences......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:25 pm

ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I have to go off to work will be back later. But can someone explain to me how the anti-Semitism that supposedly is rife in Labour 'is attached to Corbyn' as those peers have claimed? The Naz Shah comments were made before she was even an MP - and way before Corbyn was leader. How does something apparently so rife appear in six months?

This is not a denial that there are people holding and expressing such views ... but I can't quite see how it mostly relates to Corbyn as some are suggesting.
I remain a bit confused about these allegations.

Corbyn has, with some justification, deplored the encroachment of Jewish settlements on the West Bank, deplored the aggressive tactics in Gaza by the Israeli government/army - and he is far from alone in that.
Does that make him an anti-Semite? No. Does that make him an anti-Zionist? No. It makes him someone who, like many others, recognise the state of Palestine's right to exist alongside the State of Israel.

Neither the Israelis not the Palestinians have covered themselves in glory since 1948. This conflict has been going on for a very long time. But there have been periods of peace, and it should, in theory, be possible for that to happen again.

It seems to me that Johnson and Goldsmith get a free pass to be as racist as they like - but when one immature and foolish young woman posts nasty things before she became an MP, apologises, gets suspended as per party policy, all of a sudden Labour has this massive problem and it's all Corbyn's fault.

I don't get it.

You get it precisely. I support Ed Miliband and Corbyn for their acknowledgement of current injustice meted out to the Palestinians while remaining sincere friends of Israel and their calling for peaceful negotiation between the two groups. Miliband and Corbyn aren't taking a popular course of action given global relationship realities as they exist. They're both principled and righteous. There's nothing to see behind the allegation Corbyn being anti-Semitic because there's nothing anti-Semitic in his actions or words.

It's not fair, just, credible, appropriate or legal to allow different standards or penalties apply between peers. Johnson, Goldsmith and every other establishment personage aren't currently accountable for their words and actions like their peers are accountable for theirs'. It's a reprehensible, unstable state of affairs. Fairness and equality between all people isn't theoretical, it can and does exist if it's enforced by those claiming to represent their country without favouritism. The conduct of current Tory government make a mockery of equality between all people with their leadership.

Shah is a good person. Her acknowledgement she's communicated something wrong, inappropriate, unkind is what good people do when they make a mistake. I've not looked at the news today. From what I've gathered from yesterday's news, she's responsibly handling herself. This is an example to us all. Self-awareness and accountable action are trustworthy. She'll be able to make amends, indeed, she's doing so now. I like her for not using Tory government's idea of honour as her own. I hope we can work something good out between her and those offended. It's not an insurmountable difficulty, in my opinion.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:43 pm

The rows over Shah and Livingstone have been going on amid wider claims that
the party has failed to get a grip on antisemitism among some of its members.

David Cameron said it was
clear Labour had a problem with antisemitism.

“Antisemitism is like racism: it is unacceptable in a modern political party and every
political party has got to deal with it,” the prime minister said at a pro-EU referendum
campaign event in Peterborough. “As I said to Jeremy Corbyn some weeks ago when
I was shouted down in the House of Commons and called disgraceful, they’ve got a
problem and they’ve got to deal with it.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... er-remarks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think Labour has a problem with anti-Semitism. Does that mean I'm anti-Semitic? I think there's a problem recognising a good problem. What is wanted, please? What should happen to Livingstone and Shah? Seriously, what is good to do? What is appropriate and proportional?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:44 pm

BHS staff already owed millions in unpaid wages by beleagured retail chain

THOUSANDS of dedicated BHS employees, who risk losing their jobs after it went into administration, are already owed cash by the beleaguered retailer, it has emerged.

viewtopic.php?f=4&p=102988#p102988" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 2:49 pm

Via Twitter I found a statement from the Jewish Socialists' Group regarding what they term the 'weaponising' of accusations of antisemitism:

... to attack the Jeremy Corbyn-led Labour party with claims that Labour has a “problem” of antisemitism. This is despite Corbyn’s longstanding record of actively opposing fascism and all forms of racism, and being a firm a supporter of the rights of refugees and of human rights globally.
The accusations do not refer to antisemitic actions but usually to comments, often made on social media, long before Jeremy Corbyn won the Labour leadership. Those making the charges now, did not see fit to bring them up at the time, under previous Labour leaders, but are using them now, just before mayoral and local elections, when they believe they can inflict most damage on the Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn.

... The attack is coming from four main sources, who share agendas: to undermine Jeremy Corbyn as leader of Labour; to defend Israeli government policy from attack, however unjust, racist and harmful towards the Palestinian people; and to discredit those who make legitimate criticisms of Israeli policy or Zionism as a political ideology. As anti-racist and anti-fascist Jews who are also campaigning for peace with justice between Israelis and Palestinians, we entirely reject these cynical agendas that are being expressed by:

• The Conservative Party

• Conservative-supporting media in Britain and pro-Zionist Israeli media sources

• Right-wing and pro-Zionist elements claiming to speak on behalf of the Jewish community

• Opponents of Jeremy Corbyn within the Labour party.

... [we] have a proud and consistent record of challenging and campaigning against antisemitism. But we will not support those making false accusations for cynical political motives, including the Conservative Party, who are running a racist campaign against Sadiq Khan, and whose leader David Cameron has referred to desperate refugees, as “a swarm” and “a bunch of migrants”. The Conservative Party demonstrated their contempt for Lord Dubs, a Jewish refugee from Nazism, when they voted down en masse an amendment a few days ago to allow 3,000 child refugees into Britain while Labour, led by Jeremy Corbyn, gave total support to Lord Dubs and his amendment.

http://www.jewishsocialist.org.uk/news/ ... cialists-g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;