Saturday 30th April, Sunday 1st May 2016 & Monday 2nd May

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Worryingly, some who know about such things and have observed Livingstone's demeanour in the past few days fear he may have the early stages of Alzheimers.

Now that is a sad thought indeed
Yes that would be awful. Where on earth has that come from ...?

Just some people with knowledge of such things making observations on social media. He is certainly old enough now......

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:33 pm

HindleA wrote:I am sad:-
http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/mallard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sad, or jealous HindleA? The 'feelslike' column is a bit far out eh?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:42 pm

Sarah Champion MP ‏@SarahChampionMP 16m16 minutes ago
Sarah Champion MP Retweeted Richard
Seriously????

Richard
‏@Rich_UTM
@SarahChampionMP peregrine falcon's are the fastest birds. The fastest recored flight of one is 242mph!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:50 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... -threaten/

The 'concessions' being held out by Nicky Morgan to Tory rebels re forced academisation don't sound that beguiling .... a legal guarantee that no rural school will close. Extra funding to cover the costs of converting.

She doesn't seem to get that it's the principle of forcing schools - regardless of their performance and / or wishes of parents, teachers, community etc - that is fundamental to the opposition. Along with her having absolutely no convincing case re the benefits of course.

They made so many promises that my brain hurts when I try to think of them all, but didn't the Tories pre election promise free schools with bells and whistles if parents wanted it, giving more choice?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Worryingly, some who know about such things and have observed Livingstone's demeanour in the past few days fear he may have the early stages of Alzheimers.

Now that is a sad thought indeed
Yes that would be awful. Where on earth has that come from ...?
Just some people with knowledge of such things making observations on social media. He is certainly old enough now......

They've actually been saying that about Trump too due to his apparent difficulty making sense and fumbling for, but failing to find words when he's asked anything.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:56 pm

Mark Thompson ‏@MarkReckons 2m2 minutes ago
Nicky Morgan appears to have thrown a dead cat on the table here http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ni ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

She really is dreadful.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:02 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Worryingly, some who know about such things and have observed Livingstone's demeanour in the past few days fear he may have the early stages of Alzheimers.

Now that is a sad thought indeed
The thing with Altzheimer's is that you can't tell without examining the brain, so there's no point in diagnosing remotely. There are a number of kinds of dementia, all of which take a bit of work directly with the patient to diagnose, so I'd rather we didn't go in for that kind of guesswork, however much 'knowledge' the people on social media may have.

As my other half (an associate professor of gerontology) sometimes says, normal ageing is forgetting where you put your keys. Dementia is forgetting what your keys are for.

Edit: It's disappointing to think people are discussing an individual's health, particularly around something as horrific as dementia, on social media, even if it's done in sympathy and kindness, and in seeking to explain why someone could act as bone-headedly as Livingstone has this week.

I hear what you say.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:06 pm

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 4m4 minutes ago
Senior Cameron aide asked rebels at Tory away day if moving Osborne would "save PM" in the event of a Brexit vote. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 3m3 minutes ago
Tory whip has also been asking Eurosceptics whether moving Osborne to foreign sex would help calm civil war.

I want to know what the rebels replied.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:08 pm

To "foreign sex"?? I know its a typo but even so

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:12 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:To "foreign sex"?? I know its a typo but even so

It is certainly causing some amusement.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:14 pm

Sarah Champion MP ‏@SarahChampionMP 26m26 minutes ago
Sarah Champion MP Retweeted Edward Pinnegar
What!?!? I could probably do 100 if that was behind me!

Edward Pinnegar‏@Pindog
@SarahChampionMP the duck speed record is apparently held by one plucky mallard which apparently did 100mph 'whilst pursued by an aeroplane'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:16 pm

Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr 4m4 minutes ago
Sam Freedman Retweeted Tim Shipman
I can't think of a job he'd enjoy less.

Tim Shipman
‏@ShippersUnbound
Sceptics telling Downing Street that they want Gove to be chancellor

FFS.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 11:19 pm

Evening all

Hi and best wishes to Toby, and hi also to TE even though his fist was somewhat transient and I disagreed with a lot he said but good to see him/her nonetheless

On Hillsborough - just reading the transcripts of Duckenfield's testimony.....my God what a mess it was and how many lies and deceptions???????

Michael Mansfield's story was very touching (as was the cabbie's) and you could see he was emotionally engaged as his cross-examination was withering although Weatherby probably did the most forensic demolition

If you have time I suggest a read....or wait for the inevitable book that will make interesting reading. I am sure as well the cover-up and story goes much wider than reported......collusion between the police and certain political parties looks more likely than we ever would have thought

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 01 May, 2016 12:02 am

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hillsborough Inquests

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 01 May, 2016 12:05 am

Guarantee no rural school will close?

In my parents bit of Gloucs/Hereford/Worcs border there are a few that could easily be merged. Replicate this up and down the country and that's a lot of what I would call waste.

Never mind, we don't have a deficit.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 May, 2016 12:07 am

What the bloody hell?

BBC faces primetime Strictly ban: New plans would stop Corporation showing hit programmes at the same time as ITV so rival can make millions more from advertising

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ITV.html

The BBC will be barred from showing Strictly Come Dancing in a prime Saturday night slot under tough new rules planned by embattled Culture Secretary John Whittingdale.

The Minister is poised to tell the BBC they must stop screening their most popular shows at the same time as hit programmes on ITV – spelling an end to the traditional Saturday night ratings war between light entertainment shows such as Strictly and ITV’s X Factor.

The clampdown would also force the BBC to stop showing top-rated dramas such as Poldark and The Night Manager on Sunday evenings if that meant going head-to-head with major ITV dramas.

I hope they tell this tosser where to go.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:04 am

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ect-survey" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nearly three-quarters of Britons expect rapid decline in NHS, says poll

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:09 am

yahyah wrote:...Yet the fascinating thing about Cable is he was never remotely a man of the traditional left...
as he makes abundantly clear in his 2008 autobiography.
Misleadingly entitled Free Radical, he admits in it that he only adopted left wing positions to curry favour with voters.''

Which pretence, with a bit of care, he could have kept up for ever and ended his political career by retiring as an (apparently) honourable man of the "centre right that makes some left noises" and gone down in the history books at worst as "nobody very important, mostly harmless". But no, like the rest of his opportunistic, duplicitous unprincipled gang he couldn't resist the lure of the ministerial jag and the chance to play third fiddle to an equally duplicitous Tory PM's "greenest government ever" and it's promised exemplary protection for the disabled and NHS.

And, to no-one's surprise but his own, Nick Clegg and Alan Rusbriger's, the voters rewarded him appropriately the first chance they got. Still, he's Sir Vince these days - I just hope he finds a knighthood and a few pots of cash an adequate compensation for his new, more realistic public reputation.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 01 May, 2016 2:21 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr 4m4 minutes ago
Sam Freedman Retweeted Tim Shipman
I can't think of a job he'd enjoy less.

Tim Shipman
‏@ShippersUnbound
Sceptics telling Downing Street that they want Gove to be chancellor
FFS.

He'd do like he did at Education. Anything not close to his heart would get cuts and never mind the consequences.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 8:00 am

NEWS THUMP on what is absolutely the biggest news item ... apart from the crises in education, the NHS, the steel industry, the role of feral capitalism in the collapse of BHS, etc.

Labour anti-Semitism crisis escalates as Jeremy Corbyn admits to sharing Hitler’s vegetarian beliefs

The Labour Party has been plunged into further crisis after Jeremy Corbyn admitted to sharing the same vegetarian beliefs as Adolf Hitler.

The shock revelations come after the party suspended MP Naz Shah and ex-London mayor Ken Livingstone, who has expressed sympathy with Hitler’s love of dogs on numerous occasions.

An unnamed and definitely real senior source told us: “I’d often go to Jeremy’s house to discuss some important politics stuff, and he’d cook while we talked.

“He wouldn’t try and hide his vegetarianism, and openly cooked dishes like: Egg Fried Reich, Vegetable Swastika Masala, Potato Waffens.

“Once he even invited me round to try some Veggie Nuremburgers that he’d cooked up on his Klaus Barbecue.”

Furious Labour MPs have immediately called on Mr Corbyn to stand down as party leader and be replaced by someone who doesn’t have the overwhelming support of the party’s membership.

“He’s got to go,” blasted one Labour MP who chased us for several miles in order to give his opinion.

“It’s only a matter of time before he tries to create a Vegetarian Race.”

Renowned anti-racist campaigner and leader of the United Kindness Inclusive Party Nigel Farage, said: “I’m shocked, appalled and angry to discover that Jeremy Corbyn shares Hitler’s vegetarian agenda.

“Wherever there is racism in other parties we must magnify it.”

His views were echoed by Prime Minister David Cameron.

“We must find a way to tackle racism in other parties,” he said.

“We must find a final solution.”

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 01 May, 2016 8:33 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sam Freedman ‏@Samfr 4m4 minutes ago
Sam Freedman Retweeted Tim Shipman
I can't think of a job he'd enjoy less.

Tim Shipman
‏@ShippersUnbound
Sceptics telling Downing Street that they want Gove to be chancellor
FFS.
He'd do like he did at Education. Anything ~~not close to his heart would get cuts and never mind the consequences.~~ Uncle Rupert and the Murkydochian Monsters have told him to do

ffty - and if this is just a conspiracy theory, where's that book about Bolingbroke?

Murdoch's publishing arm, HarperCollins, also gave Gove a book advance in 2004 (oddly no reference can be found to the rumour that is was £860,000), when he was first selected for the safe Conservative seat of Surrey Heath. It was for a history of an obscure 18th-century politician, Viscount Bolingbroke.
Puzzlingly, the book was never delivered. HarperCollins refuses to disclose the size of the advance and its size is not specified in Gove's register of financial interests. Asked if his advance should be returned eight years later, HarperCollins says Gove "is still committed to writing a book on Bolingbroke but obviously his ministerial duties come first for now". Gove will not comment.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ve-murdoch

...and this piece also says...

In a subsequent speech to the National College for School Leadership, Gove singled Joel Klein out for praise. Klein was a US lawyer then running the New York school system. But Klein was also Murdoch's own favourite US educator. His clashes with the teachers' unions and his enthusiasm for academy-style "charter schools" had caught the tycoon's interest. Murdoch planned to hire Klein himself.
Gove told his British audience on 16 June that US reformers such as Klein were insisting on "more great charter schools … free from government bureaucracy" because they were "amazing engines of social mobility".
Advertisement
Within 24 hours of that speech, the minister was once more at the lunch table with Murdoch himself, again with Brooks in attendance and, according to the department, other "News International executives and senior editors", for "general discussion".
At the end of summer 2010, Murdoch formally hired Klein for $2m (£1.3m) a year, plus a $1m signing bonus, to launch what he called a "revolutionary, and profitable, education division".

FWIW, here in Hope (just North of Peterborough) we still cling to that old-fashioned view that education is not now, never was, and never should be a considered a 'business' - 'academisation' is a US construct initially imported by Tory Blur at the behest of his supportive sponsor...and G(r)ove(ller) at No 11?...what could possibly go wrong with having someone counting all the beans that believes(TM) that it is possible for to have the mathematical concept of 'everyone/thing' being above average?

...and if I may refer to a previous comment re McDonnell...

'Worth noting that he's had to trim a fair bit from his old positions. Wasn't he supporting taking control of the Bank before? Credit to him for getting proper advisors in.'

...I'm not sure I understand why it is such a crime to believe(TM) that the national central bank, responsible for the currency of the nation state should be in the control of the people, through the elected government? (As CJa so eloquently puts it, though, that would mean getting a government of the people, by the people, for the people first)...what advantage has the 'independent' bank given to the people as a whole? Did I miss the bit where they controlled fractional reserve banking?....or where they said 'hang on a minute, politicians - you can't socialise the debts accrued through the incompetence of our friends and colleagues and pretend austerity is an actual 'thing' that has any basis in reality'...are these 'proper' advisors actual economists?...or has McDonnell 'trimmed his position' to stop the kindergarten-level attacks on what is the only logical (and responsible) way to run a national economy? (if you are running it on behalf of all the people, of course)

Happy May Day to one and all (and, as ever, heartfelt thanks for being here)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:06 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:What the bloody hell?

BBC faces primetime Strictly ban: New plans would stop Corporation showing hit programmes at the same time as ITV so rival can make millions more from advertising

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ITV.html

The BBC will be barred from showing Strictly Come Dancing in a prime Saturday night slot under tough new rules planned by embattled Culture Secretary John Whittingdale.

The Minister is poised to tell the BBC they must stop screening their most popular shows at the same time as hit programmes on ITV – spelling an end to the traditional Saturday night ratings war between light entertainment shows such as Strictly and ITV’s X Factor.

The clampdown would also force the BBC to stop showing top-rated dramas such as Poldark and The Night Manager on Sunday evenings if that meant going head-to-head with major ITV dramas.
I hope they tell this tosser where to go.

I have to say serves them right. By omission and suppression of the news Whittingdale is still there. If they'd been braver like C4 who are also under threat, who knows.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:11 am

TR'sGhost wrote:
yahyah wrote:...Yet the fascinating thing about Cable is he was never remotely a man of the traditional left...
as he makes abundantly clear in his 2008 autobiography.
Misleadingly entitled Free Radical, he admits in it that he only adopted left wing positions to curry favour with voters.''
Which pretence, with a bit of care, he could have kept up for ever and ended his political career by retiring as an (apparently) honourable man of the "centre right that makes some left noises" and gone down in the history books at worst as "nobody very important, mostly harmless". But no, like the rest of his opportunistic, duplicitous unprincipled gang he couldn't resist the lure of the ministerial jag and the chance to play third fiddle to an equally duplicitous Tory PM's "greenest government ever" and it's promised exemplary protection for the disabled and NHS.

And, to no-one's surprise but his own, Nick Clegg and Alan Rusbriger's, the voters rewarded him appropriately the first chance they got. Still, he's Sir Vince these days - I just hope he finds a knighthood and a few pots of cash an adequate compensation for his new, more realistic public reputation.

He was the reason I started voting LibDem. He - at the time - made so much sense. I'll never forgive them. Never.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:30 am

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... dApp_Tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let’s make this miscarriage of justice a watershed moment
Andy Burnham

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:43 am

Just switched on Radio 4 and the first thing I hear is an announcement of news interviews coming up 'we speak to a Labour donor who says the current crisis in Labour means he won't give them anymore funds. He says everytime his daughter goes out in public she gets 'Jew' shouted at her'.

How is that the fault of Labour? Perhaps he could get on to David Cameron and co about doing something about an increase in public hate venting ....

GAAAAAH.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:50 am

Headline on the Mail on Sunday Goldsmith says about handing over London to Labour who thinks terrorists are its friends, and there is a photo of one of the buses mangled by explosion on 7/7 with the article.

Speechless.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:51 am

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 11m11 minutes ago
Ian Dunt Retweeted Alison Charlton
Manages to link Khan to anti-semitism, Islamic terrorism and international socialism in first five pars.

Alison Charlton
‏@alicharlo
Wow. Linking @SadiqKhan to 7/7 bombings? Written by @ZacGoldsmith for the Mail. Proud of it Zac?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:52 am

ohsocynical wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:What the bloody hell?

BBC faces primetime Strictly ban: New plans would stop Corporation showing hit programmes at the same time as ITV so rival can make millions more from advertising

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ITV.html

The BBC will be barred from showing Strictly Come Dancing in a prime Saturday night slot under tough new rules planned by embattled Culture Secretary John Whittingdale.

The Minister is poised to tell the BBC they must stop screening their most popular shows at the same time as hit programmes on ITV – spelling an end to the traditional Saturday night ratings war between light entertainment shows such as Strictly and ITV’s X Factor.

The clampdown would also force the BBC to stop showing top-rated dramas such as Poldark and The Night Manager on Sunday evenings if that meant going head-to-head with major ITV dramas.
I hope they tell this tosser where to go.
I have to say serves them right. By omission and suppression of the news Whittingdale is still there. If they'd been braver like C4 who are also under threat, who knows.

Oh dear! When I filled out the BBC consultation questionnaire, I actually said I didn't think the BBC should be deliberately going up against ITV and trying to take viewers from them. ITV may be a commercial station, but it's free and I don't think the BBC should be undermining them. I do support the BBC doing popular shows, though. I hope I haven't supported the death of Strictly!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:53 am

Snap Ohso.

Wish Goldsmith was the speechless one.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:55 am

Lets face it. Conservatives have always fought elections on fear.

Fear Labour will make you poorer.
Fear they'll run the economy into the ground.
Fear of terrorists.
Fear you'll end up with a non-English neighbour.

And sadly it works.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 01 May, 2016 9:57 am

Charlie Mullins on Radio 4. What a plonker (sorry, too annoyed to be polite).

'You never see a fat ballet dancer'.

This after he gave a brazen plug for his company Pimlico Plumbers earlier on.

What the hell is the BBC doing?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 01 May, 2016 10:41 am

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Justice, finally: a Hillsborough survivor’s story

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 01 May, 2016 10:44 am

The mainstream media have lost it. Totally.

The story in the Heil from Goldsmith proves to me that he isn't oh-so-reluctantly dong the bidding of Crosby or his sidekick or whoever - he wrote that article, and he is determined to link his rival with terrorism. Goldsmith disgusts me; I was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. Not now.

The Observer has dozens of stories on this anti-semitism thing and other stuff which we are not allowed to comment on. I can appreciate their caution on some of the stories - but since Rusbridger left, there have been progressively fewer articles allowing comments. CIF is dying.

Marr had Netanyahu apologist Regev on this morning; the Torygraph has Gilligan, that sock-puppet and Boris fanboy who "outed" David Kelly, saying he has complied a dossier proving that Labour is anti-semitic and Corbyn is pals with a Holocaust denier. Disgraceful stuff.

I am so angry I don't know what to do with myself. As doctors go into day 19 of their vigil outside the DOH, the NHS is being sold off, 1.25 million people are destitute in the UK, 26 Tory MPs/constituencies are under investigation for serious breaches of electoral regulations, the housing crisis has left people unable to buy and struggling to rent, tens of thousands face redundancy with steel and BHS and other closures....all we get is what is becoming a witch-hunt, largely manufactured (IMHO) by people who want Labour to fail so that they can get rid of the leader voted in overwhelmingly by party members. If this was such a massive issue, why haven't the MSM been reporting it in such quantity before?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:01 am

ephemerid wrote:The mainstream media have lost it. Totally.

The story in the Heil from Goldsmith proves to me that he isn't oh-so-reluctantly dong the bidding of Crosby or his sidekick or whoever - he wrote that article, and he is determined to link his rival with terrorism. Goldsmith disgusts me; I was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. Not now.

The Observer has dozens of stories on this anti-semitism thing and other stuff which we are not allowed to comment on. I can appreciate their caution on some of the stories - but since Rusbridger left, there have been progressively fewer articles allowing comments. CIF is dying.

Marr had Netanyahu apologist Regev on this morning; the Torygraph has Gilligan, that sock-puppet and Boris fanboy who "outed" David Kelly, saying he has complied a dossier proving that Labour is anti-semitic and Corbyn is pals with a Holocaust denier. Disgraceful stuff.

I am so angry I don't know what to do with myself. As doctors go into day 19 of their vigil outside the DOH, the NHS is being sold off, 1.25 million people are destitute in the UK, 26 Tory MPs/constituencies are under investigation for serious breaches of electoral regulations, the housing crisis has left people unable to buy and struggling to rent, tens of thousands face redundancy with steel and BHS and other closures....all we get is what is becoming a witch-hunt, largely manufactured (IMHO) by people who want Labour to fail so that they can get rid of the leader voted in overwhelmingly by party members. If this was such a massive issue, why haven't the MSM been reporting it in such quantity before?

Ah, well. It will soon be over. Post-elections, everyone can slip back into, "The Labour Party? PC gone mad!" mode. I'm just waiting for it . . . .

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:15 am

ephemerid wrote:The mainstream media have lost it. Totally.

The story in the Heil from Goldsmith proves to me that he isn't oh-so-reluctantly dong the bidding of Crosby or his sidekick or whoever - he wrote that article, and he is determined to link his rival with terrorism. Goldsmith disgusts me; I was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. Not now.

The Observer has dozens of stories on this anti-semitism thing and other stuff which we are not allowed to comment on. I can appreciate their caution on some of the stories - but since Rusbridger left, there have been progressively fewer articles allowing comments. CIF is dying.

Marr had Netanyahu apologist Regev on this morning; the Torygraph has Gilligan, that sock-puppet and Boris fanboy who "outed" David Kelly, saying he has complied a dossier proving that Labour is anti-semitic and Corbyn is pals with a Holocaust denier. Disgraceful stuff.

I am so angry I don't know what to do with myself. As doctors go into day 19 of their vigil outside the DOH, the NHS is being sold off, 1.25 million people are destitute in the UK, 26 Tory MPs/constituencies are under investigation for serious breaches of electoral regulations, the housing crisis has left people unable to buy and struggling to rent, tens of thousands face redundancy with steel and BHS and other closures....all we get is what is becoming a witch-hunt, largely manufactured (IMHO) by people who want Labour to fail so that they can get rid of the leader voted in overwhelmingly by party members. If this was such a massive issue, why haven't the MSM been reporting it in such quantity before?

Just thinking about earlier in the week when the BBC's John Pienaar confronted Corbyn, trying to get a 'crisis, what crisis' quote from him. Perhaps JC should have asked him, why are you obsessed with this? (Although we know the answer - it's a blatant attempt to chuck mud at Labour and hope some of it will stick.) He should have asked him why wasn't he chasing all those far more news worthy items you list. He didn't because the corrupted rules of the game are that we still pretend that the BBC is impartial when they stopped being that some time ago. Maybe Labour figures should start saying to these hostile interviewers, hang on, what's actually going on here? What is your agenda?

Perhaps they should Take a leaf out of Dennis's book and remind them that they're not working for Murdoch?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:23 am

Willow904 wrote: Oh dear! When I filled out the BBC consultation questionnaire, I actually said I didn't think the BBC should be deliberately going up against ITV and trying to take viewers from them. ITV may be a commercial station, but it's free and I don't think the BBC should be undermining them. I do support the BBC doing popular shows, though. I hope I haven't supported the death of Strictly!

Viewers opinions are fine but the idea of a government minister thinking that he can tell an independent organisation established under Royal Charter what to do is just wrong.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:25 am

RobertSnozers wrote:I see the Labour/antisemitism story is bringing out the bellendery everywhere, not least Nick 'We're Doomed!' Cohen:

When feminists talk about rape, they are not told as a matter of course “but women are always making false rape accusations”. If they were, they would suspect that their opponents wanted to deny the existence of sexual violence. Yet it is standard in polite society to hear that accusations of antisemitism are always made in bad faith to delegitimise justifiable criticism of Israel.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/com ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1) yes they are
2) that's exactly what their opponents are doing
3) 'my minority is more put upon than your minority'

Naturally we've heard a lot in the last few days about the difference between criticism of Israel and antisemitism. It seems to me that there are a number of issues around this. Yes, some people on the left or opponents of Israel occasionally equate the appalling actions of the Israeli government and military with Jews generally. Yes, some people on the right or supporters of Israel conflate legitimate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Yes, some people on the left or opponents of Israel attempt to disguise their antisemitism with criticism of Israel.

But there is a wider debate here, and attempts on both sides to establish a narrative. Part of that narrative on the right and among supporters of Israel is to insist that the issue is asymmetrical and that any support for Palestinian freedom is antisemitic. This relies on peddling untruths such as that 'the Palestinians deny Israel's right to exist' (which hasn't even been true of Hamas for a very long time). Remember the business over a member of One Direction tweeting '#freeGaza' which elicited responses from Israelis along the lines of 'why does he want to kill me and my family'? The narrative displays the rightwing trick of insisting on an absolute reversal of the truth, in claiming that Israel is a uniquely put-upon pariah state (with the unquestioning backing of the most powerful nation on earth?) which is pilloried simply for attempting to defend itself (it's not exactly as though the West shrugged at Russia's occupation of parts of Ukraine on the pretext of security). Figures in the right and the pro-Israel lobby have been attacking the left for years, accusing it of making common cause with militant Islamists and muttering darkly about the destruction of liberal democracy as a result.

So yes, there is occasionally an ugly side to the left's attitude to Israel (though I don't believe antisemitism is in any way uniquely a leftist problem). We should all think very carefully about our words when talking about the Middle East. We should avoid 'my enemy's enemy' attitudes. But there is also an ugly side to the right's hijacking of antisemitism as an issue to shut down criticism of Israel.

I saw Nick Cohen's article flagged up and thought I'd avoid it. Thanks for that critique and confirming it was as dire as I thought it'd be. Rawnsley's written some similar faux hand wringing effort - no intention of reading that either.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:29 am

re that DM piece of crap, ironically one of the most powerful reactions to a terrorist attack by anyone over the past 20 years was after 7/7 and made by one Ken Livingstone...

Bit of a shame that his time as Mayor is going to be overshadowed by the stuff he's coming out with now - totally unnecessary.

A letter from Goldsmith came through yesterday which told me that "Boris has put us back on the map as the greatest city on earth".

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:31 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Charlie Mullins on Radio 4. What a plonker (sorry, too annoyed to be polite).

'You never see a fat ballet dancer'.

This after he gave a brazen plug for his company Pimlico Plumbers earlier on.

What the hell is the BBC doing?

They've rolled over onto their back and offered their stomach in surrender.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:37 am

I actually think that piece by Goldsmith is *so* OTT it might harm rather than help him. Naively optimistic?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 01 May, 2016 11:55 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I actually think that piece by Goldsmith is *so* OTT it might harm rather than help him. Naively optimistic?

No, not naively optimistic. I think you're likely right, it's desperate stuff. However, I wouldn't put it past Tory government tampering with election ballots.

Good-morning, everyone

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 May, 2016 12:29 pm

This is worth reading - Toady getting a right kicking from Hugo Rifkind and David Aaronovitch for cheerleading the Zac article in the DM.

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Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 01 May, 2016 12:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just switched on Radio 4 and the first thing I hear is an announcement of news interviews coming up 'we speak to a Labour donor who says the current crisis in Labour means he won't give them anymore funds. He says everytime his daughter goes out in public she gets 'Jew' shouted at her'.

How is that the fault of Labour? Perhaps he could get on to David Cameron and co about doing something about an increase in public hate venting ....

GAAAAAH.

Afternoon all.
I simply do not believe that thing about the daughter.
Has ANYBODY noticed people yelling 'Jew' at random passers by?
And EVERY time she goes out this happens?
Whilst this rampant anti semitism is happening,Goldsmith is running a blatantly anti muslim election campaign,nobly reinforced by the PM and much of the media.
Whole 'crisis' is a load of bollocks if you ask me.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:02 pm

Rebecca wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just switched on Radio 4 and the first thing I hear is an announcement of news interviews coming up 'we speak to a Labour donor who says the current crisis in Labour means he won't give them anymore funds. He says everytime his daughter goes out in public she gets 'Jew' shouted at her'.

How is that the fault of Labour? Perhaps he could get on to David Cameron and co about doing something about an increase in public hate venting ....

GAAAAAH.

Afternoon all.
I simply do not believe that thing about the daughter.
Has ANYBODY noticed people yelling 'Jew' at random passers by?
And EVERY time she goes out this happens?
Whilst this rampant anti semitism is happening,Goldsmith is running a blatantly anti muslim election campaign,nobly reinforced by the PM and much of the media.
Whole 'crisis' is a load of bollocks if you ask me.

Sounds just like the false allegation made by Alex Chambers that a Jewish student at Oxford was being followed around and yelled at.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:04 pm

This is about the Goldsmith article too...

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:07 pm

From LibDem blogger Mark Pack:

Please, please let this happen

How the Tories could lose their Parliamentary majority, courtesy of the police and the voters

In the news this week was the advice from the Electoral Commission to the police and Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) that they should apply for an extension to the legal deadline for investigation the 2015 general election expense returns from candidates.

The question is whether campaign activity which was included in the national Tory expense return should really have been included in constituency returns, and so would have taken them over the legal limits.

This all follows the digging by Michael Crick and Channel 4 into the way in which activities which were charged against the national election return by the Conservatives look to have included local campaigning for named candidates, and even the distribution of leaflets with the constituency candidate and agent imprint on them. Even Tories themselves were tweeting about the bus tours backing named candidates:

The story so far has already resulted in the Conservatives admitting that £38,000 was left off their national election expense return which should have been there.

More important, however, is the question of constituency returns, as if sums were missing from those they may well have taken Conservative constituency campaigns over the legal limit. As the Electoral Commission says:

Parliament has determined that anyone found guilty of an offence under the RPA [Representation of the People Act] relating to candidate spending or the making of a false declaration in relation to candidate spending, could face imprisonment of up to one year, and or an unlimited fine. The effect of a conviction is also that for 3 years a person convicted of an illegal practice is unable to be elected to the House of Commons or to hold elective office.

Given the significant penalties that parliament has made available for such offences, the Commission’s view is that in the absence of any current investigation by the police, it would be sensible for the criminal justice agencies to retain the ability to take action should appropriate evidence come to light as part of the Commission’s own investigation.

Note that sentence, “The effect of a conviction is also that for 3 years a person convicted of an illegal practice is unable to be elected to the House of Commons or to hold elective office.”

There are around 24 Conservative MPs in the firing line over these allegations (and then there’s the separate issue over Gavin Barwell).

If all this ends up in convictions, it could result in MPs being disqualified and a round of by-elections being held to elect new MPs for those constituencies. It would only take a small number of voters in a small number of by-elections to change their views from 2015 and see the Conservatives lose their majority in Parliament.

.....

P.S. It’s worth remembering that even if the Tories have kept within the law, there’s a big problem with what the law permits when it comes to election expenses.

http://www.markpack.org.uk/139469/conse ... nses-2015/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:09 pm

Please let every Labour candidate be absolutely and obsessively meticulous about their expenses declarations. One ha'penny astray and all hell will break loose.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:This is about the Goldsmith article too...

Hear, hear Owen!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:13 pm

Rebecca wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just switched on Radio 4 and the first thing I hear is an announcement of news interviews coming up 'we speak to a Labour donor who says the current crisis in Labour means he won't give them anymore funds. He says everytime his daughter goes out in public she gets 'Jew' shouted at her'.

How is that the fault of Labour? Perhaps he could get on to David Cameron and co about doing something about an increase in public hate venting ....

GAAAAAH.

Afternoon all.
I simply do not believe that thing about the daughter.
Has ANYBODY noticed people yelling 'Jew' at random passers by?
And EVERY time she goes out this happens?
Whilst this rampant anti semitism is happening,Goldsmith is running a blatantly anti muslim election campaign,nobly reinforced by the PM and much of the media.
Whole 'crisis' is a load of bollocks if you ask me.

I can imagine it occurring, sadly. I do have problems with the idea it happens "every time", however......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 01 May, 2016 1:24 pm

@nickyinnorfolk

I've only just seen your post about election expenses. Funny how things seem to float around in the ether, isn't it?