Thursday 5th May 2015

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 8:46 pm

I'd a post removed for no good reason. I'm angry because it was an accurate and fair response to another. My post didn't contain any reference to an investigation or election sensitive information. The other commentator did. But it's my post removed with a note, their post simply disappeared. No conspiracy - just a mistake made.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 8:51 pm

This is breathtaking. A prominent leftist here, not at all giving the impression of "an issue" with anti-Semitism. Talking about the recently elected NUS President, Malia Bouattia.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/new ... and-racism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as with Jeremy Corbyn, who has nothing to do with some recently reported anti-Semitic incidents within the Labour Party, she is already being made guilty by association.

"Association"? She said the dodgy stuff herself. German can't be bothered to mention that. (Fair enough, Bouattia apologized and I wish her well in her post).

Corbyn doesn't help himself when he continues to knock about with Stop The War.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 9:29 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-cana ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

US House Speaker Paul Ryan 'can't back Trump'

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 05 May, 2016 9:32 pm

The Male Online on the London Mayoral Elections:

: 2016-05-05_213010.jpg (108.88 KiB) Viewed 5399 times

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 05 May, 2016 9:38 pm

Evening all.

I have been going through an extended bout of the can't-be-bothered-to-do-a-thing depression for most of the year to date, but fought with myself to get up the fifteen minutes early to walk to the Polling Station and vote. I figured that, just as with the GE last year, it wasn't a case of my vote being necessary for the anti-Tory cause but rather that every vote was essential to buttress Labour against the inevitable mud-slinging and lies.

I shall wait until tomorrow morning for the results, however.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 9:44 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:This is breathtaking. A prominent leftist here, not at all giving the impression of "an issue" with anti-Semitism. Talking about the recently elected NUS President, Malia Bouattia.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/new ... and-racism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as with Jeremy Corbyn, who has nothing to do with some recently reported anti-Semitic incidents within the Labour Party, she is already being made guilty by association.
"Association"? She said the dodgy stuff herself. German can't be bothered to mention that. (Fair enough, Bouattia apologized and I wish her well in her post).

Corbyn doesn't help himself when he continues to knock about with Stop The War.
According to her, some 'dodgy stuff' was misinterpreted and the 'support for Isis' almost completely trumped up.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In any case, I think you have misread the article here. Just before the line you quote, John Mann is quoted talking about rooting out antisemitism within the NUS, not the incidences related to Bouattia herself, hinting at institutional antisemitism and by extension connecting Bouattia to that - exactly as happened with Corbyn. So it's an entirely reasonable point to make, IMO. I can't help feeling that where STW is concerned, people find outrage in anything.

I agree that Corbyn's been unfairly treated over anti-semitism.

I wasn't talking about ISIL stuff- I assumed that was trumped up bollocks, and couldn't see it would be relevant to anti-semitism. I was talking about calling Birmingham University a "Zionist outpost" because it had a large J-Soc. That's something that needed apologizing for, and she did, fair enough- if I were a student I'd be gunning for the people trying to disaffiliate from the NUS, not her.

German is being dishonest though in not mentioning that she actually said stuff herself that caused concern.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:03 pm

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ap ... tleblower/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
‘Appallingly bad’ software may cause lost PIP letters, says whistleblower

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:06 pm

Er, Lindsey German is a woman.

She may be assuming knowledge, and she's got a point about media coverage, for sure- while being accidentally unfair to Jeremy Corbyn.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: According to her, some 'dodgy stuff' was misinterpreted and the 'support for Isis' almost completely trumped up.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In any case, I think you have misread the article here. Just before the line you quote, John Mann is quoted talking about rooting out antisemitism within the NUS, not the incidences related to Bouattia herself, hinting at institutional antisemitism and by extension connecting Bouattia to that - exactly as happened with Corbyn. So it's an entirely reasonable point to make, IMO. I can't help feeling that where STW is concerned, people find outrage in anything.
I agree that Corbyn's been unfairly treated over anti-semitism.

I wasn't talking about ISIL stuff- I assumed that was trumped up bollocks, and couldn't see it would be relevant to anti-semitism. I was talking about calling Birmingham University a "Zionist outpost" because it had a large J-Soc. That's something that needed apologizing for, and she did, fair enough- if I were a student I'd be gunning for the people trying to disaffiliate from the NUS, not her.

German is being dishonest though in not mentioning that she actually said stuff herself that caused concern.
I suppose, though he doesn't actually say that she didn't, I took knowledge of what she had and hadn't said/done rather as a given. The piece is saying that reporting of her election was completely skewed, and that's both true and a valid point. For the sake of clarity it might have been reasonable to confirm that in the past she had made some comments about Zionism which she had apologised for, but I don't actually see it as a major issue as the premise of the piece is correct.

I suppose I see STW is an organisation with its heart basically in the right place that has a tendency to go over the top sometimes. I accept that other people see them as rather less laudable.

Most of the problems seem to focus on this word 'Zionist' - it can be anything from a rabid anti-semite to those who believe that certain Israelis and their supporters are so wedded to a Jewish homeland in that particular place that they exhibit similarities to racists themselves! I avoid trying to use this word as it has so many meanings but using it is not necessarily anti-semitic in my view...and there are plenty of anti-Zionist jews. Zionism is a political idea and it is so very dangerous when that is linked to a particular race and/or religion as it is here.

The reality is that the right love the Netanyahu governement and its policies so do anything to put off criticism by shouting anti-semite as much as they can. The fact is that some of these people are pretty racist themselves and it is just their focus is on muslims now rather than the jews for the moment

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:16 pm

mbc1955 wrote:Evening all.

I have been going through an extended bout of the can't-be-bothered-to-do-a-thing depression for most of the year to date, but fought with myself to get up the fifteen minutes early to walk to the Polling Station and vote. I figured that, just as with the GE last year, it wasn't a case of my vote being necessary for the anti-Tory cause but rather that every vote was essential to buttress Labour against the inevitable mud-slinging and lies.

I shall wait until tomorrow morning for the results, however.

Thank you! On a thread at the other place, a few commentators were insisting those not making a certain amount of
money shouldn't be allowed to vote. The promotion of disenfranchising part of the electorate is an abhorrent idea.

1969
Representation of the People Act extends vote to men and women over 18
http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-h ... /keydates/

In the US, it took until 1971 for everyone 18+ years

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:20 pm

Have we seen this? Last poll, fieldwork finished yesterday.

KHAN 43%, GOLDSMITH 32%, WHITTLE 7%, BERRY 7%, PIDGEON 6%; Second round: KHAN 57%, GOLDSMITH 43%

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Have we seen this? Last poll, fieldwork finished yesterday.

KHAN 43%, GOLDSMITH 32%, WHITTLE 7%, BERRY 7%, PIDGEON 6%; Second round: KHAN 57%, GOLDSMITH 43%

By comparison the 2012 was 51.53 vs 48.47 in favour of Boris - not as convincing a win as I'd remembered it to be.

If and when Sadiq gets in do you think he ought to set up a Forensic Audit panel to look at Boris' dealings?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:30 pm

I should also like to proffer everyone on FTN a profound apology. Not for the quality of my contributions, either generally or specifically (although I am sure that they frequently dip below the acceptable quality quotient), but for my strident and entirely wrong-headed posts last year, dismissing the very possibility of Donald Trump even lasting as far as the nominations, let alone securing one. My only defence is that the version of reality in which the clown was laughed out of court at an early stage, or stomped off as soon as he'd made as much publicity as he needed, was so much more, sane, serious and untwisted than the one we're currently living through, and it's the world that's w rong, not me.

Nevertheless, I got it completely wrong, so I have to apologise, and as penance I will sit on my hands and sweat out the next six months in the paralysing fear that I'm going to have to apologise for being wrong all over again in November...

Edited in a closing parenthesis

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:32 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Have we seen this? Last poll, fieldwork finished yesterday.

KHAN 43%, GOLDSMITH 32%, WHITTLE 7%, BERRY 7%, PIDGEON 6%; Second round: KHAN 57%, GOLDSMITH 43%
By comparison the 2012 was 51.53 vs 48.47 in favour of Boris - not as convincing a win as I'd remembered it to be.

If and when Sadiq gets in do you think he ought to set up a Forensic Audit panel to look at Boris' dealings?

Why bother? The Press will just ignore it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:36 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Have we seen this? Last poll, fieldwork finished yesterday.

KHAN 43%, GOLDSMITH 32%, WHITTLE 7%, BERRY 7%, PIDGEON 6%; Second round: KHAN 57%, GOLDSMITH 43%
By comparison the 2012 was 51.53 vs 48.47 in favour of Boris - not as convincing a win as I'd remembered it to be.

If and when Sadiq gets in do you think he ought to set up a Forensic Audit panel to look at Boris' dealings?

He should set up about 3 of them.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:36 pm

Andrew Gwynne MP ✔ ‎@GwynneMP
Well I've arrived at Stockport Town Hall for the Count to find that LibDem Councillor Stuart Bodsworth defected to Labour at 10.01pm!

Glad to get off to a humorous start - might well need that in reserve as the night progresses.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Andrew Gwynne MP ✔ ‎@GwynneMP
Well I've arrived at Stockport Town Hall for the Count to find that LibDem Councillor Stuart Bodsworth defected to Labour at 10.01pm!
Glad to get off to a humorous start - might well need that in reserve as the night progresses.

Hey, that's my MP there!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:49 pm

This made me laugh

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:54 pm

Exit poll for Wales.

Labour have 27 seats. Not too bad, with 2 Lib Dems.

Plaid can vote with the Tories and UKIP or shut up.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 05 May, 2016 10:57 pm

Ian Katz Retweeted
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 3m3 minutes ago
Woah, senior London Tory Andrew Boff tells #Newsnight Zac campaign "outrageous" to link religious Muslims with extremism

Not expecting a Zac win then?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:00 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Have we seen this? Last poll, fieldwork finished yesterday.

By comparison the 2012 was 51.53 vs 48.47 in favour of Boris - not as convincing a win as I'd remembered it to be.

If and when Sadiq gets in do you think he ought to set up a Forensic Audit panel to look at Boris' dealings?
Why bother? The Press will just ignore it.

Never say never

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:01 pm

Goodnight, everyone
I love you all
cJA

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:04 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 3m3 minutes ago
Labour HOLD Pallion (Sunderland).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:06 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 31m31 minutes ago
Welsh Assembly projection (YouGov poll surveyed today):
LAB: 27 AMs (-3)
PC: 12 (+1)
CON: 11 (-3)
UKIP: 8 (+8)
LDEM: 2 (-3)
Chgs. from 2011

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:07 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 2m2 minutes ago
Labour HOLD St Anne's (Sunderland).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:09 pm

Increased share for Labour in St Anne's

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:10 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 24s25 seconds ago
Labour HOLD Silksworth (Sunderland).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:10 pm

A welcome Sunderland result (unlike the one just over 43 years ago-still waiting for cup revenge)football reference.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:10 pm

Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 4m4 minutes ago
1st result Labour holds Sunderland

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Exit poll for Wales.

Labour have 27 seats. Not too bad, with 2 Lib Dems.

Plaid can vote with the Tories and UKIP or shut up.

Sorry, it isn't an exit poll. It's just one done today.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:11 pm

Thinking of Lady C.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:24 pm

Labour seem to have gained a seat somewhere

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:31 pm

Giselle Green ‏@GiselleG7 37m37 minutes ago
Zac's campaign 'has done lasting damage' on relations with Muslim community, says Tory leader on London Assembly, Andrew Boff. #newsnight

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:31 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Westgate (Newcastle upon Tyne):
LAB: 68.7%
UKIP: 11.0%
GRN: 9.2%
CON: 7.4%
LDEM: 3.7%

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:32 pm

Laura Kuenssberg ✔ ‎@bbclaurak
interesting nugget, in one key ward in Sunderland, UKIP vote was 29%

The key ward being won by Labour with over 50%.

Am I being oversensitive here?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:33 pm

All Laura cares about is constructing tomorrow morning's headlines. The presses will roll soon....

It doesn't matter what the actual results are.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:39 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sir Philip Green calls for Frank Field to step down from committee

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:42 pm

I think one of the most interesting points will be turnout......are we going to see the continued trend of apathy - a trend that to me indicates how much people in the UK really care about their society

Happy to whinge a lot but can't be bothered to get out and vote - even if only to spoil the ballot paper

Any non-vote is likely to be a vote for the Tories as reduced turnouts tend to be amongst the people who are more likely to vote Labour

Got a feeling I am going to be disillusioned about the state of democracy in the UK in the morning. We seem to have reached Peak Democracy in 1997 and ever since then it is running out - funny we, as a nation, get all emotional about 'Our Heroes' from WW1 and WW2 whose legacy we are happy to see give away

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:48 pm

Labour hold Newcastle

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:48 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 15s16 seconds ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN Millfield (Sunderland) from Labour.
0 retweets 0 likes

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:51 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 15s16 seconds ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN Millfield (Sunderland) from Labour.
0 retweets 0 likes

Labour did win it on a huge swing last time and there wasn't a huge gap between them and LD - a LD revival in certain areas would not be surprising....hope it is replicated in the South West

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:53 pm

No I don't think you are TubbyIsaacs.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:55 pm

Q.What makes a ward "key" ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 05 May, 2016 11:59 pm

UKIP got over 20% in Skinner's seat, last election -they were third ,again he got over 50%.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:00 am

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8s8 seconds ago
Labour GAIN North Jesmond (Newcastle upon Tyne) from Liberal Democrat.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:01 am

Good grief, the Sparrow blog is going absolutely monkeypoo over the whole Labour/Corbyn disaster scenario. Strangely muted about London, though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:15 am

Ministers halt automatic broadband roll-out for rural families because 'not everyone wants to be connected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... amilies-b/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:21 am

Like others any despondency I have concerns the lack of turnout.I have always been against making it compulsory,beginning to change my mind with possibly a non of the above option.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:23 am

HindleA wrote:Like others any despondency I have concerns the lack of turnout.I have always been against making it compulsory,beginning to change my mind with possibly a non of the above option.

What sanction though A?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 06 May, 2016 12:25 am

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... w-11283736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liverpool local elections 2016: Follow us for live updates from across Merseyside