Saturday & Sunday, 7th & 8th May.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Oborne is really disgusted with the Tories, isn't he.

I think right wingers like Oborne and Montgomerie do have clarity of vision, misguided though I feel they often are. I think they know that PR Dave with his opportunistic politics and complete absence of guiding principles risks entirely destroying the Tories. While conventional wisdom suggests Dave will pass on to George who will serial U-turn his way through to another victory in 2015 against a weak Labour party, there must be an alternative scenario where the Conservatives simply become a laughing stock.

I've pointed out several times to gloating Tories btl at the G who think Corbyn means the Tories automatically win in 2020 that there's nothing about Labour doing badly ( if they do under Corbyn ) that directly translates into the Tories doing well. There are other parties and Coalitions remain a possibility. Both the main parties have been steadily losing popularity and the old adage that ruling parties rarely increase their vote share remains relevant. I believe post-Cameron could prove far trickier than they expect.

Indeed, the Tories managed a tiny increase last time - but that was through almost totally cannibalising their coalition partners. A let out not available to them in 2020.

[PorFavor]

Tim Montgomerie in Conservative Home - worth reading.

Zac was crushed and lost his authenticity. Because he followed the Crosby playbook – which failed him, the Conservatives and London
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... tably.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting discussion of election tactics etc re 2015 and for the future and in comments BTL too.

I agree with what a lot of Tim has said

We won at the last election because of a superb 'project fear' campaign about ed Miliband and the SNP, that's enough to get a narrow win against a weak opponent but as Tim says it'll never be enough to get past 35% or so nationally and get a decent majority - we have to have a positive message to reach out to the people - and bashing doctors and badgering schools isn't that message either

Zac has always struck me as a thoughtful honest man and I don't think his campaign put that across anywhere near enough

Young Zac with his cushioned life style where everything comes easy, failed to realise one thing.
You can't be a Tory, rise to the top and be honest, decent and thoughtful. It's like trying to mix oil and water. The ESA cuts which all the Tories voted for, proved that. Many head charities. If they really cared; gave it thought, they could not have gone along with the Conservative line.

I would label him naive.

Zac Goldsmith probably imagined that, as his public brand of Conservatism was the reason the party considered him a good bet for the mayoral race, he could sit back and his party would run his campaign in "Zac Goldsmith style". He's probably now reflecting that you just can't get the staff these days.

[rebeccariots2]

Islamic Cleric Threatens To Sue Defence Secretary For Repeating Claim He “Supports Daesh”
Suliman Gani told BuzzFeed News that he was already in conversation with lawyers.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/isl ... vpp0rKMz9D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rebecca]

Notice that Corbyn has started a no tie trend.Am surprised Cameron isn't screaming at Sadiq to put a tie on in Southwark Cathedral.
Oh,and Fallon was only' quoting Andrew Neil',so that all fine and dandy then.(suspect Fallons lawyers had a quick word in his ear).

[rebeccariots2]

A spokesperson for Fallon told London radio station LBC the defence secretary was quoting BBC presenter Neil.
“Michael was quoting Andrew Neil. He was unaware of the clarification the BBC had issued on Neil’s words. He is happy to put the record straight on that,” the spokesperson said.
When asked whether the defence secretary would issue a retraction, the spokesperson simply directed us to the comments made to LBC, although the BBC issued a full apology and not a clarification, as Fallon’s representative claimed.
The spokesperson added Fallon would not have quoted Neil if he was aware the comments “have since been clarified”.

Pathetic.

Nothing less than a full and frank public apology should suffice. And why didn't the Radio 4 presenter immediately say to Fallon that Neil had had to retract his comments ... and see what Fallon responded to that?

[mbc1955]

A spokesperson for Fallon told London radio station LBC the defence secretary was quoting BBC presenter Neil.
“Michael was quoting Andrew Neil. He was unaware of the clarification the BBC had issued on Neil’s words. He is happy to put the record straight on that,” the spokesperson said.
When asked whether the defence secretary would issue a retraction, the spokesperson simply directed us to the comments made to LBC, although the BBC issued a full apology and not a clarification, as Fallon’s representative claimed.
The spokesperson added Fallon would not have quoted Neil if he was aware the comments “have since been clarified”.

Pathetic.

Nothing less than a full and frank public apology should suffice. And why didn't the Radio 4 presenter immediately say to Fallon that Neil had had to retract his comments ... and see what Fallon responded to that?

Basically, if Gani sues, he's got Fallon bang to rights. Fallon's 'retraction' is at best unconvincing, but that's Tory arrogance for you. Take the slimy sod for everything he's got and rub egg over the face of Cameron.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Does anyone know if Khan is planning to stay on as an MP?

Almost certainly not, a by-election as soon as 9 June has been rumoured.

[rebeccariots2]

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago
Suliman Gani should sue Michael Fallon for repeating the libel that he's a supporter of ISIS on Radio 4 this morning.

Damian McBride
‏@DPMcBride
@OwenJones84 He'd have a very good case for exemplary damages as well. It's a case in point that people need to be deterred from repetition.

[rebeccariots2]

Briefcase Michael ‏@BriefcaseMike 28m28 minutes ago
Ha ha. Fallon has now blamed @afneil for his slander of Suliman Gani this morning on #r4today.

[Sticky99]

Afternoon all,

Tim Montgomerie’s piece on Conservative Home is an interesting read. Before the mayoral contest, Goldsmith didn’t murmur a word about Islamic extremists, indeed, he never courted Asian voters as an MP. To see him deliberately target non-Muslim Asian voters, and paint Kahn as a Muslim extremist just looked strange. Not that Goldsmith would have been a particularly inspiring mayor; you can link Goldsmith’s supposed care about the environment and London’s younger population who care about green matters. However, on core issues like housing, transport, social care – Zac didn’t have strong policies in these areas. However, in fairness, I don’t think the Goldsmith who tried to become London mayor was the real Goldsmith. He seemingly wasn’t even allowed to campaign about the topics he cared about, even though I don’t think his niche interests were strong enough.

Boris is lauded for winning two terms as London Mayor, but ultimately he only beat Livingstone by slender margins. So it’s easy for Conservative’s to say that a character like Boris would have retained London under Tory control, but the reality is that Livingstone was politically finished when he stood against Boris. Indeed, this is where Labour needs to be more ruthless and absolutely not apologise for picking a candidate who can win, even if that results in some internal upsets. Better to be in power with the ability to bring social justice to the masses, rather than sniping in opposition.

[yahyah]

As Mayor of London we can assume that Khan will be called on by the BBC etc to pronounce on every political issue of the moment can't we?

& pigs may fly.

[mbc1955]

Does anyone know if Khan is planning to stay on as an MP?

Almost certainly not, a by-election as soon as 9 June has been rumoured.

Which has already been described as a disaster for Corbyn.

[rebeccariots2]

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 7m7 minutes ago
Jacqui Smith being tipped by sources as Sadiq's deputy mayor for policing.

Don't know what to say about that.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Indeed, this is where Labour needs to be more ruthless and absolutely not apologise for picking a candidate who can win, even if that results in some internal upsets. Better to be in power with the ability to bring social justice to the masses, rather than sniping in opposition.

Though it is doubtful any Labour other candidate in 2012 would have had a much better chance of beating Boris - the claims you sometimes hear from Blairites that Oona King (Ken's opponent for that nomination) could have done it are little short of risible.

Similarly delusional, of course, are those who claim the other Miliband would have miraculously transformed Labour's prospects last year.

And carrying on this theme, I doubt different leaders could have saved the left behind by history basket case that is SLab either last year or this. There *are* instances when the leader can make a real difference (either way) to a party's prospects, but they are less numerous than many imagine.

[yahyah]

Notice that Corbyn has started a no tie trend.Am surprised Cameron isn't screaming at Sadiq to put a tie on in Southwark Cathedral.
Oh,and Fallon was only' quoting Andrew Neil',so that all fine and dandy then.(suspect Fallons lawyers had a quick word in his ear).

I heard the interview this morning, and I got the impression that Fallon was using something like that then as a stick to beat the BBC with.

[yahyah]

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 7m7 minutes ago
Jacqui Smith being tipped by sources as Sadiq's deputy mayor for policing.

Don't know what to say about that.

My thoughts are 'oh no'.
It was the likes of her and Hazel Blears that nearly put me off voting Labour in 2010.

[yahyah]

The Britain First candidate is obviously bitter.

What an idiot, it just makes him look like a very sore loser.

[PorFavor]

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 7m7 minutes ago
Jacqui Smith being tipped by sources as Sadiq's deputy mayor for policing.

Don't know what to say about that.

I do. But I won't say it.

[Temulkar]

You know, Fallon normally is the dead cat thrower, but I really can't see what were being distracted from? election fraud maybe? Maybe he really has just lost it - I hope it costs him a lot of money. Thats the only thing they care about.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Jacqui Smith at least has a sense of humour, an important saving grace for me.

[PorFavor]

Jacqui Smith at least has a sense of humour, an important saving grace for me.

I have a sense of humour. I find most things funny in their way -and yes, I agree that it can be a saving grace in a politician (or anybody else). But I'm not sure even my sense of humour would survive that eventuality.

[citizenJA]

Zac Goldsmith is likely not a progressive, good-hearted or honest person, based upon his voting record and contributions like the one made below.
Note the final sentences the Goldsmith quote about recalling elected representatives - irony, dishonesty and lack of awareness about his Tory party in three lines.

“I did not start this campaign with a ready-made army of people able to deliver the message. As you know, political parties are mostly based on volunteers.
We don’t have that. We didn’t have the unions. The unions are there for Sadiq Khan. We didn’t have this Momentum with a capital “M” organisation ready
to throw the kitchen sink at everything. To be fair, neither does Khan. I had to go from borough to borough, recruiting people and building up. I’ve had lots
of support. There’s nothing else I’d want. I am an independent-minded campaigner.

If I compete with this man on promises alone, I’ll be outpromised because he is a man without principle. And you could say the same of politicians generally.
I have worked with many, many politicians, but I haven’t met many, if any, politicians who I regard to be as unprincipled as the person I’m up against in this
contest at the moment....he is a person who will trample on anyone and anything to get to where he wants to get to.

I know there are people in Labour who say to get by in politics you’ve got to be willing to lie, to speak with a forked tongue, but that’s why people hate politics,
the reason people pull away from politics, the reason I still hate politicians. I think it is the curse of politics.

...I don’t hate all politicians and politics is a necessary way to get things done. If you care about anything, you care about politics. That’s why recall matters;
when I was doing recall I was thinking of people like Sadiq Khan, not people fiddling expenses. More people are elected on promises they never have any
intention of keeping. They are elected on lies. They should be held to account at any time, not just at elections.”

- Zac Goldsmith
March 2016

from, Zac Goldsmith’s fight to be London mayor: ‘I’m up against someone who poses a real danger’
The Tory candidate has run a low-key campaign so far to be London mayor, but now the battle has turned nasty.
His rival, he says, ‘will trample on anyone’ – and must be stopped
Guardian G2 interview

- Simon Hattenstone
Wednesday 23 March 2016

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rned-nasty

[TR'sGhost]

Oborne is really disgusted with the Tories, isn't he.

I think right wingers like Oborne and Montgomerie do have clarity of vision, misguided though I feel they often are. I think they know that PR Dave with his opportunistic politics and complete absence of guiding principles risks entirely destroying the Tories. While conventional wisdom suggests Dave will pass on to George who will serial U-turn his way through to another victory in 2015 against a weak Labour party, there must be an alternative scenario where the Conservatives simply become a laughing stock.

I'd class them as old style Tories. It's been hard to understand why so many have kept quiet. It's taken an awful long time for them to speak out.

Goldsmith's campaign was an old-style Tory one.

"If you want a n****r for a neighbour, vote Labour" Peter Griffiths, Smethwick 1965. He won that election and was an MP until his support for apartheid and general nastiness saw him go off to lecture economics for a few years before returning as a Tory MP in 1979. To pick one example from many.

The Monday Club, until proscribed by Tebbit of all people, was old-style Toryism.

Old-school Tories ran a third of the world, much of it, apart from what they called the "White Dominions" by dictat, and, when they thought it would get their desired results, by force. At home they opposed votes for women and "managed" the depression of the 1930s by ensuring unemployment equalled destitution while insisting laissez faire economics, the trickle-down of its time, "just worked".

Nye Bevan's famous remark was about "old-style" Tories.

Cameron, Osborne and co. are very much in that old-style, men immensely wealthy from birth with all the advantages that brings ruling in a spirit of arrogance while telling the lower orders we simply aren't like them and will never deserve any of what they take for granted.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Jacqui Smith at least has a sense of humour, an important saving grace for me.

I have a sense of humour. I find most things funny in their way -and yes, I agree that it can be a saving grace in a politician (or anybody else). But I'm not sure even my sense of humour would survive that eventuality.

Its still a point worth making, arguably, given how utterly earnest and humourless so many Blairites/bitterites are.

[TR'sGhost]

Tim Montgomerie in Conservative Home - worth reading.

Zac was crushed and lost his authenticity. Because he followed the Crosby playbook – which failed him, the Conservatives and London
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... tably.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting discussion of election tactics etc re 2015 and for the future and in comments BTL too.

I agree with what a lot of Tim has said

We won at the last election because of a superb 'project fear' campaign about ed Miliband and the SNP, that's enough to get a narrow win against a weak opponent but as Tim says it'll never be enough to get past 35% or so nationally and get a decent majority - we have to have a positive message to reach out to the people - and bashing doctors and badgering schools isn't that message either

Zac has always struck me as a thoughtful honest man and I don't think his campaign put that across anywhere near enough

Young Zac with his cushioned life style where everything comes easy, failed to realise one thing.
You can't be a Tory, rise to the top and be honest, decent and thoughtful. It's like trying to mix oil and water. The ESA cuts which all the Tories voted for, proved that. Many head charities. If they really cared; gave it thought, they could not have gone along with the Conservative line.

I would label him naive.

I'd label him an ambitious, nasty, unscrupulous arrogant man more than prepared to stir up racism for his own benefit.

[TR'sGhost]

Morning all.

So happy about Sadiq Khan's win. Woooh - London has a Labour mayor again. Long time coming.

Vile though the Goldsmith and Cameron campaign has been - it may yet prove to be helpful for the future. It has achieved such notoriety and backfired so spectacularly it may mean such tactics can be very quickly called out in future campaigns - and because there is now a pretty established pattern to the Tory tactics of dividing / othering groups and demonising and scaring - it loses some of its efficacy and can be recognised by more people. It's also going to make more Tory MPs and politicians feel rather more wary about resorting to such tactics. The old shits like Fallon who are prepared to say and shout the indefensible are on the way out ... the newer intake with ambitions and hopes won't want to associate themselves with such stuff. That's my hope anyway.

That's what I thought 20-odd years ago. That racism was finally on the demise, that being disabled was no longer seen as a sin that should be hidden from polite society and perhaps the days of cutting the income of those at the bottom while giving tax cuts to billionaires might even come to an end as well.

It seems I was wrong. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories double-down, Goldsmith's campaign may have failed this time but the Tory press lapped it up and will no doubt be happy to keep hammering away in the same vein. Tory economic policy has failed, Tory social policy is seeing us more and more divided and more and more unequal. The Cabinet might as well come from Mars for all it has in common with 99+% of us. In so many ways spreading divisiveness, fear and hate is the only strategy the Tories have left.

[yahyah]

2212.jpg (25.13 KiB) Viewed 5971 times

Someone forgot to tell senior police officers that Khan is a security risk.

The smile creases at the corners of the eyes of several of them show they are genuine. not just polite smiles.

[yahyah]

Bristol mayor result due soon according to Twitter reports. Candidates have been called to a room to hear then there will be the announcement.

[yahyah]

Looks like the Labour candidate in front for Bristol first preferences !

[yahyah]

56,729 for Labour's Marvin Rees, only 32,375 for the incumbent.

[yahyah]

Labour's vote has more than doubled in numerical terms since 2012.

More bad news for the party !

[Willow904]

56,729 for Labour's Marvin Rees, only 32,375 for the incumbent.

Good God! The polls were way out. The bookies could be out of pocket too! How did they get it so wrong? Or did the fracking rumours last week sink Ferguson? I thought it would be way closer than that.

Corbyn has made a particular point about winning Bristol. Indicating, as he did, that Bristol is worth winning, surely didn't hurt. We're normally pretty much ignored, even more so than Cornwall. I think Corbyn can take a little credit for this one? Rees missed out last time, but had a lot more help from the party machine this time, with Corbyn making a couple of high profile visits. There are clues here, I think, on how Labour can build future success and part of that is standing behind what people are doing well locally rather than imposing candidates and messages from the centre.

[Willow904]

Oops, missed that was first preference results, rather than final! Scrub my last comment. It's going to be close after all and hinges on where 2nd preferences go. Ferguson will pick them up from the Tories and Lib dems, I suspect. Could hinge on the Greens.

[refitman]

Britain Elects ‎@britainelects

Bristol Mayoralty, first preferences:
LAB: 40.4%
Bristol First: 23.1%
CON: 14.0%
GRN: 7.1%
LDEM: 5.8%
UKIP: 5.1%

[yahyah]

Oops, missed that was first preference results, rather than final! Scrub my last comment. It's going to be close after all and hinges on where 2nd preferences go. Ferguson will pick them up from the Tories and Lib dems, I suspect. Could hinge on the Greens.

That's what's worrying me. You know how some Greens hate Labour.
Weren't they told not to put Sadiq as their second choice in London ?4

Must say, although I voted to scrap First Past the Post, there would be a rather bad stink if someone with such a large lead turned out not to be the winner. It does seem against natural justice.

[AnatolyKasparov]

No way is Ferguson making that margin up, surely?

[yahyah]

Ignore my last comment

Just checked last year's general election result, and the Greens got 26.8% in Bristol West and 11.6% in Bristol South, so lots of them must have voted Labour.

Well done Greens, my life's ambition to learn to love them may be a step closer.

[yahyah]

Bristol Post say Corbyn is on his way to Bristol.

[rebeccariots2]

No way is Ferguson making that margin up, surely?

Would hope not.

Today is turning out fab. Will enjoy visiting Mr Riots' grandkids and greatgrandkids in Bristol even more now. They'll have done the right thing.

[rebeccariots2]

Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 7m7 minutes ago
Still early but keep your eyes on Bristol count this afternoon

[ohsocynical]

Don't you just love England?

Last weekend blue feet, woolly socks, jumper, cardigan, turned the central heating up.
This weekend hastily dragged out summer top and trousers and sunburnt!
I know we should never be surprised by what the weather chucks at us --- but really!

[yahyah]

Sounds like the incumbent, Ferguson, is not very popular.

[nickyinnorfolk]

Oops, missed that was first preference results, rather than final! Scrub my last comment. It's going to be close after all and hinges on where 2nd preferences go. Ferguson will pick them up from the Tories and Lib dems, I suspect. Could hinge on the Greens.

That's what's worrying me. You know how some Greens hate Labour.
Weren't they told not to put Sadiq as their second choice in London ?4

Must say, although I voted to scrap First Past the Post, there would be a rather bad stink if someone with such a large lead turned out not to be the winner. It does seem against natural justice.

The Greens were advising their supporters to make Goldsmith their second choice. So much for being more lefty than Labour.

For the Norwich City Council election, it was a straight battle between the Greens and Labour - the Tories were nowhere. Norwich South's MP Clive Lewis was saying beforehand it was going to be very difficult for the Greens to make their usual claim to be the 'real' left.

Final result - Labour: 26 seats, Green Party: 10, Liberal Democrats: 3

[yahyah]

Don't you just love England?

Last weekend blue feet, woolly socks, jumper, cardigan, turned the central heating up.
This weekend hastily dragged out summer top and trousers and sunburnt!
I know we should never be surprised by what the weather chucks at us --- but really!

It's mild but windy and very overcast here.
But you may like to know that we've officially shed our thermals.

[nickyinnorfolk]

Bristol Post say Corbyn is on his way to Bristol.

Tory press are claiming that he's 'snubbed' Sadiq by not being at Southwark cathedral. Sh1t stirring again. Thought JC must have promised to be elsewhere ...

[ohsocynical]

Tim Montgomerie in Conservative Home - worth reading.
Interesting discussion of election tactics etc re 2015 and for the future and in comments BTL too.

Young Zac with his cushioned life style where everything comes easy, failed to realise one thing.
You can't be a Tory, rise to the top and be honest, decent and thoughtful. It's like trying to mix oil and water. The ESA cuts which all the Tories voted for, proved that. Many head charities. If they really cared; gave it thought, they could not have gone along with the Conservative line.

I would label him naive.

Zac Goldsmith probably imagined that, as his public brand of Conservatism was the reason the party considered him a good bet for the mayoral race, he could sit back and his party would run his campaign in "Zac Goldsmith style". He's probably now reflecting that you just can't get the staff these days.

With his character traits definitely not leader material. Totally unsuitable for the job. London has saved itself...

[yahyah]

Oops, missed that was first preference results, rather than final! Scrub my last comment. It's going to be close after all and hinges on where 2nd preferences go. Ferguson will pick them up from the Tories and Lib dems, I suspect. Could hinge on the Greens.

That's what's worrying me. You know how some Greens hate Labour.
Weren't they told not to put Sadiq as their second choice in London ?4

Must say, although I voted to scrap First Past the Post, there would be a rather bad stink if someone with such a large lead turned out not to be the winner. It does seem against natural justice.

The Greens were advising their supporters to make Goldsmith their second choice. So much for being more lefty than Labour.

For the Norwich City Council election, it was a straight battle between the Greens and Labour - the Tories were nowhere. Norwich South's MP Clive Lewis was saying beforehand it was going to be very difficult for the Greens to make their usual claim to be the 'real' left.

Final result - Labour: 26 seats, Green Party: 10, Liberal Democrats: 3

So the London Greens fell for Goldsmith's 'I'm a nice cuddly environmentalist' spiel ?
More fool them.

[yahyah]

Gani's confirmed he is taking legal action against Fallon.

Like OhSo, I'll happily donate to a legal fund.

[rebeccariots2]

Top Tories condemn Zac Goldsmith's 'disgusting' mayoral campaign
David Cameron under pressure to justify attempts to link new London mayor Sadiq Khan to alleged Islamic extremists during Conservative candidate’s bid
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've only got respect for those who spoke out before the result. Those who are only now piling in to say how disgusted they were by Goldsmith and Cameron's campaign are just as bad as the campaign they condemn in my book. Just goes to show how far people are prepared to let their supposed principles lapse for the pursuit of power and influence.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Tbf to the Greens (and I suppose we can be, just a bit, now that polling day is past) "vote Zac as 2nd preference" was never an official policy - just something suggested by Jenny Jones last year (when, of course, Goldsmith was still the reputed great hope of "Tory Greenery")

Last month, they announced they would not endorse a second preference. Which annoyed lots of people, myself included, but many at all levels of the London Greens subsequently made clear on social media etc which of the two plausible outcomes they would prefer - and it generally wasn't for the Tory candidate