Tuesday, May 17th 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 7:07 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 7:38 am

From yesterday's Guardian (as you can tell, I'm right up to the minute on all the developments) -

Phone survey finds 10-point lead for remain but web poll puts leave ahead

Guardian ICM phone poll produces pro-EU result but those in favour of Brexit have four-point advantage in online equivalent (Guardian)

Now I'm more confused than ever re polls. I thought younger people (supposedly more pro-Remain) did the on-line stuff and older people (supposedly more pro-Leave) were the ones who were more highly represented in 'phone polls. And yet the opposite appears to be the case here.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... uts-leave-

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:01 am

Morning.

Hope all goes well for your return home today Toby.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:08 am

PorFavor wrote:From yesterday's Guardian (as you can tell, I'm right up to the minute on all the developments) -

Phone survey finds 10-point lead for remain but web poll puts leave ahead

Guardian ICM phone poll produces pro-EU result but those in favour of Brexit have four-point advantage in online equivalent (Guardian)
Now I'm more confused than ever re polls. I thought younger people (supposedly more pro-Remain) did the on-line stuff and older people (supposedly more pro-Leave) were the ones who were more highly represented in 'phone polls. And yet the opposite appears to be the case here.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... uts-leave-

There was a Yougov chart on the G's politics blog yesterday that showed the crossover point from majority for remain to majority for leave at age 43, but I would have thought if that was true, if likelihood to vote was taken into account then leave should be well ahead, so I am finding all these polls hard to trust.

Besides, I'm 44 and one of the biggest international events of my youth was the fall of the Berlin wall and the re-unification of Germany. It was a very optimistic time for Europe and had a long lasting effect on me. I can't be the only person who remembers those times who sees the expansion of the EU post Soviet bloc era as a positive thing, surely?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:17 am

I may have misinterpreted it, but someone on Radio 4 this morning seemed to say that if the turnout on June 23 was as high as a general election it would favour Brexit.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:26 am

I know the Telegraph tries to be a slightly posher Daily Mail these days, but the headline to Tom Harris' latest piece is just nonsense.

''David Cameron is going to steal all of Labour's voters and Jeremy Corbyn will never understand why''.

All: every one, every single one, fully, entirely, wholly, according to the dictionary.

Harris won't be responsible for the headline, but it almost makes you yearn for Dippy Hodges back.

EDITED - I'd accidentally put Corbyn's name instead of Cameron when typing the Telegraph headline.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:42 am

Spectacular bearded vulture spotted for first time in UK

Ornithologists hope for glimpse of species reported to have been seen in Wales and west country
(Guardian)

Anyone?

I hope it stays safe.

Edited to have another go at the link

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:48 am

That link didn't work, try this one

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:50 am

Two SNP MPs have left their wives after having affairs with the same English journalist, a woman who describes the SNP as the Mujahideen of British politics. Reading the headline I thought she was being facetious (cf the 'Turnip Taliban'), but she apparently meant it as a compliment. She studied Modern History at Oxford (just like Gidiot) - draw your own conclusions.

Serena Cowdy is said to have told friends that she saw SNP MPs as romantic revolutionaries, describing them as 'the Mujahideen of British politicians'.

A source said: 'This love triangle is a disgrace for Scottish politics – and gives weight to the rumours that some of the sudden mass of SNP MPs in London have been going on a big jolly.

'These two have behaved with all the decorum of a coach party in a Carry On film arriving at a pub.

'It's laughable that Serena boasts of her affairs with these MPs and says they're like a sexy Mujahideen. I doubt their wives think they are.'

When asked about her affairs with the politicians last night, Miss Cowdy said: 'No comment.'

The MPs and their now-estranged wives also declined to speak.

An SNP source confirmed the story but disputed a claim that love rivalry led to a row between Mr MacNeil and Mr Hosie.

Father of three Mr MacNeil, who previously worked as a BBC Scotland reporter and a teacher, represents the Western Isles. He rose to prominence in the Commons in 2006 by lodging a complaint with police over 'cash for peerages' allegations made against Labour.

Earlier this year he faced questions over his own probity when he had to repay hundreds of pounds in expenses after claiming more than £250 a night for hotel rooms, when the usual limit is £150.

....Mrs MacNeil had stayed with her husband after a previous embarrassment, when he was caught with two teenage girls in a hotel room in 2007 while she, then pregnant, was in hospital.
.....

An acquaintance of Miss Cowdy's circle, who revealed the love triangle, told the Mail: 'Serena is from London and went to Oxford, but since starting work in Parliament has this thing about the SNP being like the Mujahideen.

'She was having an affair with Angus MacNeil during the Scottish independence referendum campaign – and boasted that when he was on TV talking about it, she's texted him and he'd looked at his phone. He used to take her to the Park Plaza hotel in Waterloo for the night. Now she's with Stewart Hosie and has been for some time and it's very serious.

'She's suggested for a while he's going to split from his wife and they're going to have a proper relationship in public. Now he really has separated we'll have to see. I heard things had been difficult between Stewart and Angus because they'd both had the same girlfriend – and that there have been cross words between them.
.....

'Surely MPs are paid to represent their constituents – not gallivant round London having affairs with the same woman. It is even more wrong if that interferes with their working relationship.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z48tfRIhH6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MacNeil sounds a right charmer

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:54 am

yahyah wrote:That link didn't work, try this one

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My second (the edit) link works for me - but thanks for your rescue, anyway!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:56 am

I'm sorry, I'm a red blooded as the next woman, but the idea of Stewart Hosie as a 'sexy Mujahideen'.
She has got to be joking.

Wonder how the Cybernats will magic away the suggestion that the 56, err...54...or however many they have this week, SNP MPs are not just troughing, partying & bonking at Westminster ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:09 am

Wont be home 2day, dispute over who pays for care package, 40 pounds a day. Social service thought i would. I dont have that.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:10 am

yahyah wrote:I'm sorry, I'm a red blooded as the next woman, but the idea of Stewart Hosie as a 'sexy Mujahideen'.
She has got to be joking.

Wonder how the Cybernats will magic away the suggestion that the 56, err...54...or however many they have this week, SNP MPs are not just troughing, partying & bonking at Westminster ?

Well, quite. He's not exactly Mel Gibson as Braveheart. He's got all the raw sex appeal of a slightly soggy digestive biscuit.

It still rankles with me the way the SNP lot treated Dennis Skinner. I know there's a truce now but the SNP were obnoxious in the way they tried to push him out.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:13 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Wont be home 2day, dispute over who pays for care package, 40 pounds a day. Social service thought i would. I dont have that.

Hello. I hope it gets sorted out. £40 a day is a lot to expect someone to find.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:13 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Wont be home 2day, dispute over who pays for care package, 40 pounds a day. Social service thought i would. I dont have that.

That's really crappy. Hope it gets sorted soon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:17 am

Also from yesterday -

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:22 am

Well, that was fascinating and well worth waiting for, wasn't it? (Actually I assumed you'd have all read it and would know what I was on about . . . )

Anyway - from yesterday -

Pro-Brexit bosses include retirees and tax avoidance experts

Names on letter making case for leaving EU range from those offering offshore tax-planning and servicing super-rich, to heads of dormant business

One signatory is John Kersey, managing director of Preston hair salon Kersey Hairdressing, a business with net assets of £313. (Guardian)

Edited owing to links jinx. Fingers crossed . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ce-experts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:30 am

Sorry to hear that Toby.Hope your home soon.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:31 am

Morning all.

Waves to all potential visitors pointed this way from AS blog by the latest incarnation of SpinningHugo and /or Rusty.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:32 am

PorFavor wrote:
Spectacular bearded vulture spotted for first time in UK

Ornithologists hope for glimpse of species reported to have been seen in Wales and west country
(Guardian)
Anyone?

I hope it stays safe.

Edited to have another go at the link

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk

Morning. Has someone brought it over to hunt down Neil Hamilton?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:35 am

Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:37 am

27m ago 09:05

There is some terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn’s criticis[sic] within the Labour party today. A poll of party members carried out by YouGov for the Times (paywall) shows that he is more popular with ever, suggesting that any attempt to beat him in a new leadership would (so long as he insisted on standing) be doomed to dismal failure. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I hope that this shuts people up and that this doesn't augur more dirty works at the crossroads. I'm not a great fan of Jeremy Corbyn but, in the absence of someone I prefer and for the sake of Party unity and the sake of the country, let's just get on with it, shall we?

Edited to insert an apperstrofe.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:37 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

If you want to watch DVDs on your PC you need to download the appropriate player from the Microsoft web site fairly quickly.
I didn't & had to download a 3rd party player

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:38 am

Toby. Keep your spirits up - you shouldn't have to fight for what you need - really hope it gets sorted quickly.

Lots of hugs and best wishes.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:38 am

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1444953 ... -be-deeply" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour Press
Hundreds of Post Office workers will be deeply concerned by this news - Angela Eagle

Post Office to cut more than 500 jobs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36309400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:42 am

Never liked the word "package" to be honest,like an explosive device,from "me" to "you".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:46 am

Ex PO worker,package,job losses,thematic link,unintended.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:48 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

Yes, this has been well signposted among tech types on the internet. They've been predicting since last year that optional Windows 10 rollouts would become automatic some time this year. The only way to not have Windows 10 will eventually be to not have Windows. It's either embrace 10 or learn to love Linux, I'm afraid. (And it is annoying, because Windows 7 was really good, like XP was, and deserved a much longer operating window for those who have no need for the latest versions of everything). Sorry.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:57 am

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?
Yes, this has been well signposted among tech types on the internet. They've been predicting since last year that optional Windows 10 rollouts would become automatic some time this year. The only way to not have Windows 10 will eventually be to not have Windows. It's either embrace 10 or learn to love Linux, I'm afraid. (And it is annoying, because Windows 7 was really good, like XP was, and deserved a much longer operating window for those who have no need for the latest versions of everything). Sorry.

We had already decided as a household that we were going to go Mac when this happened. Windows 7 - which was what I had and the reason why I paid MORE for this laptop - was OK. I really don't want most of the gubbins that Microsoft decided to foist on me. And the PC is now much slower than before. Mr Riots' laptop is on such an old system they don't bother him anymore and it's a welcome relief - oh the irony.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 May, 2016 9:59 am

Matt Chorley ‏@MattChorley 38m38 minutes ago
Corbyn is going nowhere. Shad cab min says Labour will be "absolutely annihilated" in 2020 http://bit.ly/27us8y4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's one shad cab min who shouldn't be one.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:03 am

Been getting domestic cleaning through a care company , paid for by social services for ten years,

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:14 am

Morning all.
An interesting,if a bit overexcited imo,article in a blog called Sodium Haze.
Apologies if it has already been mentioned, 'How the Guardian bullies morality so it can bully you'.

Another dog dilemma today.
Charlie was improving on Friday,but not so great on Saturday.My ex husband had a look at him and said this time it definitely is not vestibular disease,but more likely to be a bleed.And that I should think about euthanasia by early this week.
Sunday came,Charlie was bright and much steadier on his feet.No vomiting for 2 days,continent and eating well.
Yesterday he was so poorly again.He could barely walk again,wouldn't eat or drink.Incontinent again.
So,I made up my mind that today was the day.
This morning he popped outside alone for a wee and has had 2 walks to the end of the road and back.It's the best he has been for 11 days.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:19 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Wont be home 2day, dispute over who pays for care package, 40 pounds a day. Social service thought i would. I dont have that.

I am dismayed! I cannot find words to express my disappointment. There is no suitable emoticon. My post is pathetically inadequate. I am sorry for this.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:19 am

Good-morning, everyone

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:24 am

7m ago 10:10
EU referendum polling

Nigel Farage says, if Remain wins the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second vote. (See 9.40am.) (Politics Live, Guardian)

He'll keep going, unfortunately, whatever the margin. It'll be the "resignation" all over again. It's what he'll do if the "Out" side wins that intrigues me. They've already made it clear that he's "not wanted on voyage".

Edited to try and make some semblance of sense. And not a link in sight . . .

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:25 am

Labour express.
Labour Express!
LABOUR EXPREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESS!!

Ah, that's better.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:25 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

Needless to say I can't find it now, and it's too late for you, but the Ask Jack column in the G had a very good article on whether or not to upgrade, with a link to a download that would stop it doing so automatically. I downloaded it and have been mercifully free from W10 notices since. Will look for it again later, must go out now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:32 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

Linux. It's not very elegant but I took to it fine. Of course, my work is largely academic, I read from my computer, I rarely watch anything. It's functional though, I can watch goings-on when I'm ready to subject myself to it. A year ago, the Linux flavour I used had issues with this.

I've got to reboot. There's been updates. Back in a moment.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:33 am

Toby,have PM'd

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:35 am

Re the phone/online poll dichotomy with Brexit.

There is some evidence that online polls overstate UKIP support, if so then the implications for referendum surveys should be fairly obvious.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:41 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Well. (Hear Catherine Tate's Nan there).

Windows just installed Windows 10 on my PC without a by your leave. What a ........ liberty.

Fucking Cortana can go fuck right off. Need I say more?

I got home last night to find my machine had scheduled an upgrade to Win10 without asking me.

Fortunately I managed to click the right buttons to cancel it, but apparently this is their latest tactic:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/window ... 31802.html

FU M$

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:47 am

Hi! I'm back. I like using an operating system lots of people put together and maintain without demanding tallage. It's a cooperative.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:49 am

PorFavor wrote:
27m ago 09:05

There is some terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn’s criticis[sic] within the Labour party today. A poll of party members carried out by YouGov for the Times (paywall) shows that he is more popular with ever, suggesting that any attempt to beat him in a new leadership would (so long as he insisted on standing) be doomed to dismal failure. (Politics Live, Guardian)
I hope that this shuts people up and that this doesn't augur more dirty works at the crossroads. I'm not a great fan of Jeremy Corbyn but, in the absence of someone I prefer and for the sake of Party unity and the sake of the country, let's just get on with it, shall we?

Edited to insert an apperstrofe.

Yes. Well said.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:50 am

I think it's "dirty work at the crossroads" as distinct from "dirty works" . However, who cares? (Aside from me, very probably.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 17 May, 2016 10:57 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
yahyah wrote:I know the Telegraph tries to be a slightly posher Daily Mail these days, but the headline to Tom Harris' latest piece is just nonsense.

''Jeremy Corbyn is going to steal all of Labour's voters and Jeremy Corbyn will never understand why''.

All: every one, every single one, fully, entirely, wholly, according to the dictionary.

Harris won't be responsible for the headline, but it almost makes you yearn for Dippy Hodges back.
I think that's 'David Cameron is going to steal all of Labour's voters...' Btw

But in better news, I seem to have missed the memo that Dan Hodges is no longer writing for the Telegraph. That gave me a lift this morning.

Its no less absurd in the "corrected" version, tbh. Everybody who voted Labour last time will vote Tory in 2020? And this will be the work of somebody who isn't even going to be around then?? I wonder, is this Harris again deluding himself he speaks for *all* "ordinary Labour voters" (whatever they might be)?

And lets be honest, nobody would be surprised if he personally makes that decision would they.......

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 May, 2016 11:17 am

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 46m46 minutes ago
71% of Labour members say the party is divided; 62% blame "Labour MPs who oppose Corbyn"

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... bers_W.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 May, 2016 11:23 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Wont be home 2day, dispute over who pays for care package, 40 pounds a day. Social service thought i would. I dont have that.

Oh Toby...I bet you're fuming and you must be disappointed, but don't let it set your health back. Stay strong.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 17 May, 2016 11:23 am

PorFavor wrote:
Spectacular bearded vulture spotted for first time in UK

Ornithologists hope for glimpse of species reported to have been seen in Wales and west country
(Guardian)
Anyone?

I hope it stays safe.

Edited to have another go at the link

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk

Perhaps it followed those swifts

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 May, 2016 11:30 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Spectacular bearded vulture spotted for first time in UK

Ornithologists hope for glimpse of species reported to have been seen in Wales and west country
(Guardian)
Anyone?

I hope it stays safe.

Edited to have another go at the link

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... st-time-uk
Perhaps it followed those swifts

Yes - I thought that when I spotted them (oh, so long ago now!) that they had the air of trailblazers about them . . . .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 17 May, 2016 11:32 am

ohsocynical wrote:John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 46m46 minutes ago
71% of Labour members say the party is divided; 62% blame "Labour MPs who oppose Corbyn"

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... bers_W.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And are they wrong?

What I can't get over is how *stupid* most of Corbyn's internal opponents have been......