Friday 20th May 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 5:53 am

Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-it-saved" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Privatisation at Whitehall offices has cost £4m more than it saved
Back-office functions moved to private sector to save £500m a year, but project has hit numerous problems, watchdog finds

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/shared-service-centres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 6:09 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-363338 ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More mental health patients sent hundreds of miles

Some patients had to travel nearly 300 miles, while one trust had to declare a major incident.
The figures, obtained through Freedom of Information requests, are 13% higher than last year.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 20 May, 2016 6:14 am

HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-it-saved" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Privatisation at Whitehall offices has cost £4m more than it saved
Back-office functions moved to private sector to save £500m a year, but project has hit numerous problems, watchdog finds

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/shared-service-centres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Morning all. Just been reading this. Shocking, absolutely shocking. Evidence based policymakers will reflect upon this report, naturally.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/201 ... y-says-nao" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' A Cabinet Office spokesman said: “The report recognises that the Cabinet Office is addressing the challenges involved in managing digital transformation, but we accept that we need to go further, and we will.”'

Ah.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 7:49 am

Morning.

Brexit may be the best answer to a dying eurozone
Larry Elliott
Staying in the EU means hitching ourselves to an undemocratic project run by and for a remote elite
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... atic-elite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting piece. Pretty similar view to that of Paul Mason - which he expressed loudly on QT last night. Except Mason reckons now is not the time for Brexit and that we will get a second chance to vote fairly soon. He also reckons the EU is breaking itself up.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 7:54 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... -netanyahu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Israel's defence minister quits over rift with Binyamin Netanyahu

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 8:08 am

Huge hospital overspend to be revealed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36334496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 20 May, 2016 8:24 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Huge hospital overspend to be revealed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36334496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why is it an overspend and not an underfund?

Morning all. Over the football now

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 20 May, 2016 8:24 am

£4 Million down the swanee......and another £75 Million....

DWP paid Concentrix £75 Million to check that single parents on benefits really are single.
So far, 93% of the single parents really are single.
The status of the remaining 7% is unconfirmed.

AAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:06 am

ephemerid wrote:£4 Million down the swanee......and another £75 Million....

DWP paid Concentrix £75 Million to check that single parents on benefits really are single.
So far, 93% of the single parents really are single.
The status of the remaining 7% is unconfirmed.

AAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

But just you wait! As soon as we can confirm that even one of those lying, cheating, 7% is living with his/her partner, THEN we can withdraw the benefit from every single one of them to make sure that the cheater is punished for stealing from honest, hard-working folk. Then you'll see how much money we've saved!

Bwaaa-haa-haa!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:18 am

Pat Glass. Depressing. Would expect an MP to be able to hold her own in such a discussion. To say something like that - and with the press present - is pretty daft. As a canvasser I hear lots of things like that on the doorstep. We have to deal with such views. MPs should be able to.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:29 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Pat Glass. Depressing. Would expect an MP to be able to hold her own in such a discussion. To say something like that - and with the press present - is pretty daft. As a canvasser I hear lots of things like that on the doorstep. We have to deal with such views. MPs should be able to.

Wholeheartedly agree.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:37 am

HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-it-saved" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Privatisation at Whitehall offices has cost £4m more than it saved
Back-office functions moved to private sector to save £500m a year, but project has hit numerous problems, watchdog finds

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/shared-service-centres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But it's not about saving money is it. It's really about lining the private sector's pockets.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:39 am

More terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn

St Helier (Merton) result:
LAB: 71.0% (+11.6)
CON: 13.9% (-1.0)
UKIP: 9.4% (-10.2)
LDEM: 2.9% (-3.1)
GRN: 2.7% (+2.7)

Look forward to Anatoly's analysis later

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:52 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:More terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn

St Helier (Merton) result:
LAB: 71.0% (+11.6)
CON: 13.9% (-1.0)
UKIP: 9.4% (-10.2)
LDEM: 2.9% (-3.1)
GRN: 2.7% (+2.7)

Look forward to Anatoly's analysis later

Clawed back from UKIP? Heartening if so.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 9:56 am

This is the message being sent to Tory MPs by Govt whips on the #TTIP #QueensSpeech amendment.
Worried or what?

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/73 ... 00/photo/1

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 20 May, 2016 10:32 am

Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.
There are now 23 constituencies/MPs under scrutiny, including Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) who has a majority of 165.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 20 May, 2016 10:41 am

ephemerid wrote:Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.
There are now 23 constituencies/MPs under scrutiny, including Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) who has a majority of 165.

Have they all applied for an extension?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 10:43 am

Good-morning, everyone

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 10:53 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:More terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn

St Helier (Merton) result:
LAB: 71.0% (+11.6)
CON: 13.9% (-1.0)
UKIP: 9.4% (-10.2)
LDEM: 2.9% (-3.1)
GRN: 2.7% (+2.7)

Look forward to Anatoly's analysis later

St Helier is not a posh area. According to the narrative they should be voting UKIP.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:10 am

ephemerid wrote:Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.

Is that Carlisle, then? Or could it be their near miss in Barrow, even.......

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:11 am

StephenDolan wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.
There are now 23 constituencies/MPs under scrutiny, including Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) who has a majority of 165.
Have they all applied for an extension?

I know a few have - I'll see of I can find out.

But they've got until 12th.June, so there's time.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:12 am

HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-it-saved" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Privatisation at Whitehall offices has cost £4m more than it saved
Back-office functions moved to private sector to save £500m a year, but project has hit numerous problems, watchdog finds

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/shared-service-centres/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IIRC there were lots of headlines about how much Francis Maude had saved.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:14 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Huge hospital overspend to be revealed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36334496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know when this didn't happen?

Under Labour.

What happens with a deficit? Do they owe money to their local Leeds Permanent or to the Treasury?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:15 am

It didn't help UKIP in the by-election that their candidate (an ex-Tory Merton councillor) had recently moved down to Hampshire, but still a good Labour result.

More later......

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:16 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.
Is that Carlisle, then? Or could it be their near miss in Barrow, even.......

Seems to be Carlisle.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:23 am

ephemerid wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Tory election expenses update -

Cumbria Police are the 15th force to be investigating.
There are now 23 constituencies/MPs under scrutiny, including Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) who has a majority of 165.
Have they all applied for an extension?
I know a few have - I'll see of I can find out.

But they've got until 12th.June, so there's time.

Thanks ephie, you're a star. The number of these that aren't Tory PCC areas would be interesting too

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:26 am

Mancis Fraude.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:32 am

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2016 ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing benefit savings will disappear under their own complexity

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:36 am

£2.45bn. Holy crap.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:40 am

NHS finance experts said the true scale of the deficit was much worse than the £2.45bn headline total but it had been masked by a series of accounting devices. Around £1bn originally earmarked for capital spending last year – for building and maintaining hospitals and buying equipment – was transferred into the NHS’s resource budget to help cover normal running costs. Trusts came under pressure from NHS Improvement and the Department of Health in January, February and March to make their year-end overspends as small as possible.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:46 am

Brilliant. So they cut investment.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:54 am

John Rentoul Retweeted
YouGov ‏@YouGov 2h2 hours ago
EU referendum bombshell data coming soon...

Oh cripes. Bound to set off more Punch and Judy whatever it is.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 11:57 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Brilliant. So they cut investment.

It's how they manage to continue with the blatantly impossible claim - in this context - that 22bn of efficiencies can and will be found that dumbfounds me.

Even on QT just about everyone (apart from Amber Rudd of course) recognised more funding was needed. The demand for NHS services has soared.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:06 pm

Briefcase Michael ‏@BriefcaseMike 4h4 hours ago
Jonathan Dimbleby got two mentions of Corbyn into that trail for #bbcaq even though he's not on the panel. #r4today
0 retweets 0 likes

Vanessa Saxton ‏@bobbidog 4h4 hours ago
@BriefcaseMike just fills in for Laura's bash Corbyn section on a Friday I think....#r4today
0 retweets 1 like

Briefcase Michael
‏@BriefcaseMike
@bobbidog I think they constantly say 'Corbyn!' in the same way Father Jack used to shout 'Drink!' and 'Feck!'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:12 pm

Why has the NHS deficit ballooned? One word: understaffing
Sharp decline in health service finances is almost exactly mirrored by extra costs of employing more expensive agency staff
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ncy-health" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The mark-ups these agencies charge takes money away from frontline care. Barts Health trust in London – the NHS’s largest – spent about £80m on agency staff in 2014-15, roughly £30m of which was clear profit for the agencies.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:17 pm

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
YouGov have conducted a simultaneous phone and online poll experiment.

Online: Leave 40% Remain 38%
Phone poll: Leave 39% Remain 36%

Same sample size and demographics? Not quite sure what this is meant to mean. Is this the 'bombshell data'?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:29 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Why has the NHS deficit ballooned? One word: understaffing
Sharp decline in health service finances is almost exactly mirrored by extra costs of employing more expensive agency staff
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ncy-health" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The mark-ups these agencies charge takes money away from frontline care. Barts Health trust in London – the NHS’s largest – spent about £80m on agency staff in 2014-15, roughly £30m of which was clear profit for the agencies.

I thought there was an NHS staff bank?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:31 pm

I think it's the first phone poll to show 'Leave' ahead. I could be wrong.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:32 pm

Stephen - This is the latest I can find from various sources.

14 Police Forces have now applied for extensions, definitely -
Devon/Cornwall, Gloucs, Notts, WYorks, Cumbria, Derbyshire, Staffs, Cheshire, Warks, Kent, Somerset, WMids, Lincs., NHants
GMP and the Met have too, according to one source.

Tory PCCs - Devon/Cornwall, Cumbria, Staffs, Cheshire, NHants. The rest are independents or Labour.
(GMP and Met excluded, which don't have one - it's the mayor's responsibility)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:38 pm

But if YouGov did its phone survey using the usual panel it draws upon for its online polls, why should that be a "bombshell"?

As the argument has always been that it is the *panels* the online pollsters use that are skewed towards UKIP (and thus also Brexit)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:43 pm

Think this might be part of the bombshell as well ....?

Revealed: new evidence reveals greater skews in phone polls
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/re ... one-polls/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 May, 2016 12:48 pm

The "evidence" of the last GE is that phone polls were *marginally* less inaccurate, FWIW.

There was also little to choose between phone and online surveys for the Scottish referendum or the recent London election. What is in contrast fascinating about this EU campaign is that I can't previously recall such a stark divergence between phone and online. Will it persist until June 23, or will there be a convergence before then?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 1:16 pm

HindleA wrote:Mancis Fraude.

Ever wonder what happened to the woman who was badly burned after following his instructions about storing petrol in cans indoors? I do.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 1:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:But if YouGov did its phone survey using the usual panel it draws upon for its online polls, why should that be a "bombshell"?

As the argument has always been that it is the *panels* the online pollsters use that are skewed towards UKIP (and thus also Brexit)

I read the other day that the phone polls won't be so accurate because it's an EU referendum.

Old people who are - apparently - mostly for out, tend to use phones.

The young who are - apparently - mostly for remain, mainly use social media.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 20 May, 2016 1:28 pm

More from Tim Fenton on expenses.....this time, it's the personalised mailshots.

zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tory-expenses-damning-letters.html

I've been plugging FTN over at the G this morning - hope we'll see @deepblue here soon. Helloooooo if you'r reading!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 May, 2016 1:41 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:But if YouGov did its phone survey using the usual panel it draws upon for its online polls, why should that be a "bombshell"?

As the argument has always been that it is the *panels* the online pollsters use that are skewed towards UKIP (and thus also Brexit)
I read the other day that the phone polls won't be so accurate because it's an EU referendum.

Old people who are - apparently - mostly for out, tend to use phones.

The young who are - apparently - mostly for remain, mainly use social media.

Makes it even stranger that the actual effect seems to be the opposite - online polls tend to be much more in favour of Brexit.

Taking a completely detatched viewpoint for a moment, this difference is fascinating......

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 1:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Brilliant. So they cut investment.
It's how they manage to continue with the blatantly impossible claim - in this context - that 22bn of efficiencies can and will be found that dumbfounds me.

Even on QT just about everyone (apart from Amber Rudd of course) recognised more funding was needed. The demand for NHS services has soared.

The Royal Berkshire hospital relies a lot on fund raising for much of its equipment. Noticed the other day in oncology, that they are only £6,000 off buying a million pound piece of machinery - for treating cancer I believe.

They are still using the MRI scanner that was bought entirely by donations during the eighties.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 20 May, 2016 2:02 pm

ephemerid wrote:More from Tim Fenton on expenses.....this time, it's the personalised mailshots.

zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tory-expenses-damning-letters.html

I've been plugging FTN over at the G this morning - hope we'll see @deepblue here soon. Helloooooo if you'r reading!

Sorry if this is a bit muddled.
I was telling for much of the day at our polling station. Tory tellers were there too, and a couple of times voters came up with this card type piece of paper in their hands and showed them to a Tory councillor who was hanging around and who quickly stuffed them in his pocket and looking furtive.
As far as I could hear, it was some sort of loyalty card thing? with the named person. I'm sure that's how it was described when a rather loud lady came up and had got muddled. I was right by them. It was a hurried explanation and my hearing's not as sharp as it once was. I couldn't swear to it. I know it wasn't their polling cards because they had to be told it wasn't the right card to use although it had been dropped through their doors.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 20 May, 2016 2:14 pm

Tom Watson's tweeting this:

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 20 May, 2016 3:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: You know when this didn't happen?

Under Labour.
What happens with a deficit? Do they owe money to their local Leeds Permanent or to the Treasury?
The overspent provider will have to fight it out with the commissioner as to who pays and effectively whose deficit it is - with payment by results, there could be a dispute over whether the overspend was forseeable, just the result of higher than expected demand or if the provider has been clumsily or deliberately over-providing. If it's the trust's, they will probably have it clawed back by the commissioner over the next few years. If it's the commissioners', they will either have to beg additional funding from DH, a loan from NHS England or have the overspend clawed back by the DH over the next few years. Technically, the accountable officers could be sacked or even prosecuted.

Thank you. So there's basically billions that the Commissioners should have and don't?