Wednesday 25th May 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 2:21 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... close-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

People with a learning disability are being denied care close to home

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 2:24 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... led-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the US they even have ‘sub-minimum’ wages for disabled people
Mary O'Hara

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 2:34 pm

FT2311 (S317): trends in type of ownership
all owner occupiers

----------bought outright------mortgage paid off----other----all owned outright-------buying with mortgage
2008/09--------15.0--------------------28.1---------------3.1-------------46.2-----------------------------53.8
2009/10--------15.0--------------------28.9---------------3.0-------------47.0-----------------------------53.0
2010/11--------15.6--------------------29.7---------------3.1-------------48.5-----------------------------51.5
2011/12--------14.9--------------------30.4---------------3.3-------------48.6-----------------------------51.4
2012/13--------15.3--------------------31.4---------------3.1-------------49.7-----------------------------50.3
2013/14--------17.5--------------------30.8---------------3.3-------------51.5-----------------------------48.5

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... cond-homes

More than half of all owner occupied homes in the UK are owned outright at this time.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:03 pm

Universal Credit - fraud and error.

The "business case" for UC included the statement that overpayments would be reduced by £1.16 Billion PA.

DWP's recent publication of fraud and error figures (in which it happily reported how it has changed how it records some errors by calling them fraud) also includes the first set of statistics on this.
UC was overpaid by 7.3% (JSA currently gets overpaid by 5%). UC was underpaid by 2.6% (JSA 0.8%). DWP claims that this is not statistically significant and anyway UC is different from JSA.

The business case for UC was partly based on a saving of two-thirds or the usual fraud and error; so far, it has actually increased both overpayments and underpayments - it is costing 50% more than the old system.
As these figures apply only to a small amount of claims as the roll-out is a long way from being close to completion, it begs the question - how much more proof does DWP need to accept that UC simply isn't workable?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
FT2311 (S317): trends in type of ownership
all owner occupiers

----------bought outright------mortgage paid off----other----all owned outright-------buying with mortgage
2008/09--------15.0--------------------28.1---------------3.1-------------46.2-----------------------------53.8
2009/10--------15.0--------------------28.9---------------3.0-------------47.0-----------------------------53.0
2010/11--------15.6--------------------29.7---------------3.1-------------48.5-----------------------------51.5
2011/12--------14.9--------------------30.4---------------3.3-------------48.6-----------------------------51.4
2012/13--------15.3--------------------31.4---------------3.1-------------49.7-----------------------------50.3
2013/14--------17.5--------------------30.8---------------3.3-------------51.5-----------------------------48.5

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... cond-homes
More than half of all owner occupied homes in the UK are owned outright at this time.

They don't have age comparisons... I am thinking the outright owners might be older. Back in the day, you couldn't take out a mortgage that carried on past 65 years of age.
When we took out a joint mortgage with my parents and sister, the mortgage term was based was on my parents age and was only for fifteen years.

Our small circle of friends are now all mortgage free.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:12 pm

A good read on infrastructure. Look forward to Tubby's comments.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/feature/ ... hing-build" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:21 pm

Page 8/12

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -estimates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:24 pm

George Osborne is not ready to lead the country, as Angela Eagle demonstrated at Prime Minister's Questions
This was Osborne’s audition for the top job – but it didn’t quite go to plan

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/geo ... 48311.html

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:33 pm

Off-street parking: Florence road collapse sinks row of cars
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... reet-italy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm glad no one got hurt. The kayak paddlers in the image out on the water look nice.

: A firefighter stands next to vehicles Photo Maurizio Degl Innocenti EPA.jpg (72.68 KiB) Viewed 5614 times

Around 20 cars fell into the water-filled ditch, but no one was injured.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:37 pm

Devon & Cornwall police given more time to investigate Tory election expenses allegations

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Devon- ... story.html

Good to see local papers taking up the story.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:39 pm

HindleA wrote:Page 8/12

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -estimates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - thank you!

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Devon & Cornwall police given more time to investigate Tory election expenses allegations

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Devon- ... story.html
Good to see local papers taking up the story.

It is - not much chance of that here.

The Brecon&Radnor had one of those big wraparounds for the Tories and inserts a few times before the GE.

On which subject - new post on personalised letters etc. at zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk

In Bury North, where David Nuttall defended the seat with a majority of 378 (0.8% swing), constituents got nice letters from OGRPPFGTCC - and Nuttall's spending return showed a total spend on postage of £89.20p.

The electorate in Bury North is 67,911. If only a tenth of those constituents got a letter posted second-class, it would have cost £3,735.
No wonder the Tories are putting this down as a national expense.....

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
George Osborne is not ready to lead the country, as Angela Eagle demonstrated at Prime Minister's Questions
This was Osborne’s audition for the top job – but it didn’t quite go to plan

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/geo ... 48311.html

Eagle was by all accounts good, but its a tad annoying seeing the usual suspects trying to drive a wedge between her and Corbyn on this.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:26 pm

ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Devon & Cornwall police given more time to investigate Tory election expenses allegations

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Devon- ... story.html
Good to see local papers taking up the story.
It is - not much chance of that here.

The Brecon&Radnor had one of those big wraparounds for the Tories and inserts a few times before the GE.

On which subject - new post on personalised letters etc. at zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk

In Bury North, where David Nuttall defended the seat with a majority of 378 (0.8% swing), constituents got nice letters from OGRPPFGTCC - and Nuttall's spending return showed a total spend on postage of £89.20p.

The electorate in Bury North is 67,911. If only a tenth of those constituents got a letter posted second-class, it would have cost £3,735.
No wonder the Tories are putting this down as a national expense.....

By the reasoning set out on the Zelo Street blog re the Cameron letters - the one Mr Riots received prior to the just gone Assembly election should have been a local spend focusing - as it did - on Pembrokeshire and voting for the Conservative in Pembrokeshire. Where and when do we get the spending returns for that election? And who do we ask to investigate if there is zilch postage shown on it?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:42 pm

Not that Blairites accept the fact that millions of voters abandoned Labour under Blair. According to several Blairites I have run into on Twitter, the core vote died. No, I am not kidding.
Maybe they all caught a new strain of flu which only affects people with an aversion to spin, illegal wars, private finance deals, an absence of housing investment and light-touch banking regulation?

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-8 ... 0XGXZErLIW

This is not bad.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:49 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... led-people

In the US they even have ‘sub-minimum’ wages for disabled people
Mary O'Hara

Afternoon all.
Didn't a Tory minister in the Coalition govt. suggest this (Owen Patterson?)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:54 pm

Another person under investigation is the newly-elected Conservative Police and Crime Commissioner for Devon and Cornwall, Alison Hernandez. She was previously the election agent who helped Kevin Foster MP win the Torbay seat for the Conservative Party.
Alison Hernandez sworn in
MAY 2016
Documents obtained by Channel 4 News show she signed off Mr Foster’s spending return, and included costs for leaflets promoting him that were delivered by stop activists. However, costs for the activists, such as the buses or accommodation, were not declared locally.

The local Police Federation has called for her to step down from her new post.

http://www.channel4.com/news/election-expenses-exposed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:56 pm

danesclose wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... led-people

In the US they even have ‘sub-minimum’ wages for disabled people
Mary O'Hara
Afternoon all.
Didn't a Tory minister in the Coalition govt. suggest this (Owen Patterson?)

If something nasty is suggested for over here, you can bet your sweet patootie it's happened/happening in the US...

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:59 pm

ohsocynical wrote:you can bet your sweet patootie

What a wonderful expression!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:01 pm

danesclose wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:you can bet your sweet patootie
What a wonderful expression!

Mr Ohso's ...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:01 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
danesclose wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:you can bet your sweet patootie
What a wonderful expression!
Mr Ohso's ...

I think it's another term for arse. But not sure.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:05 pm

There has to be decentralisation of a lot of government and business / investment / infrastructure if we are going to get out of the crazy and doomed scenarios we read about in today's Guardian...

The London council that has outbid Canterbury council for a recently vacated barracks so they can ship out some of the people on their housing list. Meanwhile those waiting in Canterbury will carry on waiting. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... -redbridge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in another story we are told that populations of cities and towns in the North are in a continual decline as people move away to find work while London's population is set to balloon. Tower Hamlets' is forecast to increase by 25%. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... se-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We can't have a sustainable UK whilst London acts as a kind of vortex - sucking everything in - and other areas get ever more moribund. Especially if London's main export to the regions is going to be people without homes - and, most likely, jobs if they are sent that far away from their base.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:08 pm

Murnaghan @SkyMurnaghan
@TristramHuntMP: Labour cannot be a purely "cosmopolitan" party if it wants to keep voters #Murnaghan

Pauline Lane ‏@Antonineone1 27m27 minutes ago
Pauline Lane Retweeted Murnaghan
Suggest Hunt joins Corbyn at Steel Workers march. Before lecturing the working class Hunt should get out & meet some Pauline Lane added,

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:13 pm

patootie
pəˈtuːti/
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
1.
dated
a girlfriend or a pretty girl.
"she's a real hot patootie"
2.
a person's or animal's buttocks.
"in his mildly frazzled moments, he might refer to one of his staff as a horse's patootie"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:39 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Good to see local papers taking up the story.
It is - not much chance of that here.

The Brecon&Radnor had one of those big wraparounds for the Tories and inserts a few times before the GE.

On which subject - new post on personalised letters etc. at zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk

In Bury North, where David Nuttall defended the seat with a majority of 378 (0.8% swing), constituents got nice letters from OGRPPFGTCC - and Nuttall's spending return showed a total spend on postage of £89.20p.

The electorate in Bury North is 67,911. If only a tenth of those constituents got a letter posted second-class, it would have cost £3,735.
No wonder the Tories are putting this down as a national expense.....
By the reasoning set out on the Zelo Street blog re the Cameron letters - the one Mr Riots received prior to the just gone Assembly election should have been a local spend focusing - as it did - on Pembrokeshire and voting for the Conservative in Pembrokeshire. Where and when do we get the spending returns for that election? And who do we ask to investigate if there is zilch postage shown on it?

We want your help to put Tory election spending under the magnifying glass
The Mirror has launched the People's Electoral Commission as we ask our readers to help us investigate alleged Tory election fraud.

We aim to publish online the electoral spending returns of every one of this Government's 330 MPs for the country to judge whether they were entirely truthful about their spending.

The Mirror was the first to break the story in March that more than two dozen Tory MPs benefited from battlebuses packed with Tory activists but failed to declare any of the costs.

How the Mirror broke the story
On the back of our story, there are now 11 police forces investigating these allegations and any MPs found guilty face up to a year in jail.

This could be the tip of the iceberg but time is running out for police to investigate. The authorities have just one year from the date the spending return was filed to launch an investigation and by June 11 it will be too late.

Prime Minister David Cameron's Government has a wafer thin majority of 12 MPs and so just six by-elections could topple his regime.

Do you live in a constituency with a Tory MP? Use our widget to #checkatory today:

Search for your local Tory MP by postcode.
If we have that MP's spending return, then you can read through it and tell us if you think anything is missing. Here are some hints on what to look for.

If we don't have the paperwork, then please consider volunteering to get it for us.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pa ... al-8041095

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:43 pm

Thanks Ohso. But I'm talking about the Assembly elections just gone. I don't know if the agents will even have filed their returns yet. I'll ask at our next CLP meeting where they go to.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:46 pm

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote: Yes, the use of moderate (and the implied opposite, extremist) was a shame.
Anyway, how do i put a 2016 on the end of todays date? Looks messy without it.
I think that might have to be down to refitman or PfY if / when they happen along.

The thread heading can be edited in the normal way, by the person who wrote the post.

Yahyah's correct, it's the first post that needs changing. Have done it now.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
George Osborne is not ready to lead the country, as Angela Eagle demonstrated at Prime Minister's Questions
This was Osborne’s audition for the top job – but it didn’t quite go to plan

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/geo ... 48311.html
Eagle was by all accounts good, but its a tad annoying seeing the usual suspects trying to drive a wedge between her and Corbyn on this.

Thanks, just watched the extended clip here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pm ... la-8045797
She totally skewered him on several occasions - tres amuse!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:47 pm

: QT line up.jpg (50.63 KiB) Viewed 5498 times

Is that 2 Inners and 3 Outers?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 May, 2016 5:59 pm

If you are looking for balance, don't forget it is the BBC.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:00 pm

Cathy Newman ‏@cathynewman 2m2 minutes ago
.#c4news @heliaebrahimi @sajidjavid put TATA steelworkers' pensions on table by offering new laws to lower benefits http://blogs.channel4.com/helia-ebrahim ... ons-law/82" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Javid offering to write new laws to benefit foreign owned business ... and disbenefit UK workers. Wonderful .... just bloody wonderful. How the hell can he make promises like that?

A Government row has erupted over a secret plan to re-write pension law after Indian conglomerate, Tata, demanded members’ benefits be cut.

The disagreement has emerged as Business Secretary Sajid Javid met Tata bosses in Mumbai. Steelworkers had hoped there would be an announcement about a shortlist of buyers but the parent company just said it would now take some more time to evaluate bids.

Sources suggest this move could preempt a decision by Tata to keep its investment in the UK and abandon the sales process, which the Government has been pressing for.

It is understood that the Department for Work and Pensions “is not comfortable” with the possible proposal being spearheaded by Mr Javid that would change pension rules to persuade Tata to hold its investment.

It is understood that the Prime Minister has signed off on what could amount to a far-reaching change in pensions law despite the objections from DWP and reservations of Treasury. The split could be hugely damaging for Mr Javid, who is running out of time to rescue Tata Steel, which employs 15,000 people in Britain...

Such a law change clearly has implications for other pension schemes and workers.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:00 pm

StephenDolan wrote:A good read on infrastructure. Look forward to Tubby's comments.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/feature/ ... hing-build" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of good stuff, providing it happens. The rail bits depend a lot on selling of surplus assets- I'd be surprised if all that many surplus assets had escaped the attention of the Coalition, but still...

Another good story from Public Finance.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/201 ... erventions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MPs probing the effectiveness of Pickles' intervention in Tower Hamlets and Rotherham.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:03 pm

yahyah wrote:If you are looking for balance, don't forget it is the BBC.

No - it's hard to see how they could achieve perfect balance with a panel of five - unless they had an undecided on. It was more an expression of surprise - would have thought they'd have been more likely to have more Inners than Outers.

I'm not an automatic Inner yahyah. I realise I'm clearly in the minority - possibly of one - on FTN. But I'm still not decided! I'm trying not to be phased by my outcast mode on this one.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:09 pm

But, with less than a month to go before the referendum they should have added an extra panel member, or taken one out, or had a don't know as the fifth.

There was a report on the radio that said the press is skewed to pro-Brexit reporting.
The BBC don't need to help that.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:28 pm

yahyah wrote:But, with less than a month to go before the referendum they should have added an extra panel member, or taken one out, or had a don't know as the fifth.

There was a report on the radio that said the press is skewed to pro-Brexit reporting.
The BBC don't need to help that.

Does Dimbleby represent the other 'inner'?

He's worth 2 panellists when he starts interrupting!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:28 pm

Andy Burnham @andyburnhammp

Great turn-out by steel workers today & great show of solidarity from Labour MPs. Time for action, @George_Osborne.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

anne edgeler PhD Retweeted Andy Burnham
Oh how marvellous to see you there with the wonderful Denis Skinner!anne edgeler PhD added,

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:30 pm

http://www.historyworkshop.org.uk/radic ... -festival/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Radical Histories/Histories of Radicalism: A Major Conference & Public History Festival

CALL FOR CONTRIBUTIONS

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:32 pm

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Courtau ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Courtaulds: 350 lose jobs as Pretty Polly tights manufacturer goes into administration

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:33 pm

Our Prime Minister: the fattest man at the table. Foodbanks for some gluttony for others.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:45 pm

I do love Julius Caeser; my favourite soliloquy is the friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your feet

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 May, 2016 6:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:If you are looking for balance, don't forget it is the BBC.
No - it's hard to see how they could achieve perfect balance with a panel of five - unless they had an undecided on. It was more an expression of surprise - would have thought they'd have been more likely to have more Inners than Outers.

I'm not an automatic Inner yahyah. I realise I'm clearly in the minority - possibly of one - on FTN. But I'm still not decided! I'm trying not to be phased by my outcast mode on this one.

This morning on Bracknell Labour site someone wanted to post something about remain that might counteract a good post on Brexit.
The only thing I can say for staying in is we need all the protections we can get against the likes of IDS, who would see all safeguards removed by exiting the EU.
There are an awful lot of blokes who were in the building trade being treated for various cancers, and at the hospital they just nod when they ask Mr Ohso what he did for much of his working life.
Even so, I don't like exit & not keen on staying, although in retrospect, staying is the lesser of two evils. I wish I didn't have to vote. Perhaps I'll develop a bad migraine ...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:13 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
QT line up.jpg
Is that 2 Inners and 3 Outers?

Evening all

That is not a bad panel actually

Davies is not someone I agree with but he is a heavyweight compared to the rest of his party and he is a class above Cameron

Hilton is a bit of a dick but is interesting to listen to

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:15 pm

DWP twitter link on Monday's politics thread contained the website link below.

The Daily Jobseeker
Travel, for fun and for profit: How expanding your job search could lead to a pay rise

"The average daily commute is 55 minutes, each way: which is a lot of reading time, playing Candy Crush time, or, if you’re dedicated,
doing work time. But many jobseekers consider roles up to 90 minutes travel time away, and for good reason — looking outside your
geographic comfort zone can often lead to bigger and better things."

http://dailyjobseeker.tumblr.com/post/1 ... -expanding

https://twitter.com/DWP/status/734444069808689152

(my emphasis)

I totally wouldn't have thought of looking for work in another part of the country without your suggestion! OMG, thank you, DWP!

What about travel costs? MPs get subsidised travel expenses, do their minions? Do the people who set up this surreal website get
their travel costs reimbursed? Do they realise others don't? Does anyone have any information about the tumblr blog the DWP are
hosting here?
http://dailyjobseeker.tumblr.com/
The website doesn't supply identity information.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:19 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 47691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than a million carers are living in poverty, research warns

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:25 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Courtau ... story.html

Courtaulds: 350 lose jobs as Pretty Polly tights manufacturer goes into administration

That's okay! A 90-minute commute into _________ will find those new 350 job-seekers employment!
see DWP dailyjobseekertumblr for details
void where prohibited

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:27 pm

Mr Riots has just shouted to me 'One in five couples close to breaking up'. 'It says so in the Guardian'. I flicked him a loving V sign (these are banter currency in our household - we spar with each other to see who can get one or several in first or sneakily when the adored other isn't looking.) He's looking very casual as he tells me this - munching cashew nuts and supping a glass of beer. I think we may be the alternative Beryl and Male.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:30 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 47691.html

More than a million carers are living in poverty, research warns

The way current government treats carers and those family/friends they're caring for is appalling.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ive-debate

Should the government ban second home ownership? – live debate
Wonderful discussion so far though I'm only a little way in
Great topic

The thread was closed after a couple hundred posts and the it turned out very thin below the line.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Wed 25 May, 2016 7:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:If you are looking for balance, don't forget it is the BBC.
No - it's hard to see how they could achieve perfect balance with a panel of five - unless they had an undecided on. It was more an expression of surprise - would have thought they'd have been more likely to have more Inners than Outers.

I'm not an automatic Inner yahyah. I realise I'm clearly in the minority - possibly of one - on FTN. But I'm still not decided! I'm trying not to be phased by my outcast mode on this one.

If it helps you are not alone in being undecided.

This infantile referendum campaign does not help with plague,pestilence,famine and the four horsemen being threatened on one side and the land of milk and honey the other. The consistent, orchestrated release of contentious information based with little relation to the real world followed by nothing from the leavers but rebuttals just shouting "biased" does absolutely nothing but convince me of the fatuousness of the arguments and the low opinion the establishment have for the voting public.I am hoping (probably foolishly) that with the advent of purdah, and the absence of treasury spin, the discussions will become a little more adult.

If nothing changes I ,with some reluctance, probably will be an inner.

My main worry being what an unfettered government would try to do on workers rights. I do recognise, from personal experience, the benefits of our trading relationship but, frankly,I am needing to be convinced that the EU is a community in the true sense rather than a small group of economic bully boys inflicting their demands on weaker members.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 25 May, 2016 8:01 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
danesclose wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:you can bet your sweet patootie
What a wonderful expression!
Mr Ohso's ...

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hsp ... &type=ipad