Saturday & Sunday 4th & 5th June 2016

[rebeccariots2]

Is it me?
I'm finding it a bit of a cheek that the media is looking to Labour to pull off the Remain vote? And if Brexit wins, Labour will get the blame?

No, it's not you. It is a cheek but it's all part of the grilling and dissing Labour as if they were in government rather than this current Tory shower. Labour are responsible for everything even though they're not in power - and they didn't call a referendum. And Corbyn is responsible for everything that could possibly be wrong with Labour even though he's only been leader for 9 months.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Is it me?
I'm finding it a bit of a cheek that the media is looking to Labour to pull off the Remain vote? And if Brexit wins, Labour will get the blame?

It's important that Labour mobilises its support, for sure. But starting to blame Labour for a Leave vote looks seriously out of order.

As many people have pointed out, Corbyn has made quite a number of perfectly good speeches on the subject. Where were the media then?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I think there is a serious danger of a turn-out problem. Anecdotally, I've spoken to quite a few people who are naturally Remain but have been turned off by the campaign, to the point of considering a Leave vote.

Hopefully these people won't actually cross to Leave, but there's a very fair chance they will "abstain" on the day.

[ohsocynical]

@Ohso

Do you have a local cat rescue lot who will come and trap / collect Dennis - neuter him - and then return him to his patch? That's what we have around here - and my mum had most of her feral buddies and visitors sorted like that when she was in London.

We had a battered old tom take up residence in our garden a few years ago. Obviously had something wrong. I was feeding it. We thought it might just be starvation, but when it didn't pick up, I rang all the cat places. Not one of them wanted to know. In the end I found a vets who offered to go halves with me for whatever was needed. They did a blood test. Turned out it had Feline Aids, so had to be put down. So I still had a big bill. To top it off, I had three cats [two had adopted us] and they all had to have blood tests in case they'd caught it with another set of tests three months later.

Dennis was on his last legs when he first appeared in our garden, and I worried about aids, but he picked up nicely once he was getting regular food.
When we get our new place, I've thought I might pay to have him done. I worry about who's going to feed them though.

[danesclose]

Evening all,
Rowson gets better & better

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... eu-cartoon

[Tubby Isaacs]

Is it me?
I'm finding it a bit of a cheek that the media is looking to Labour to pull off the Remain vote? And if Brexit wins, Labour will get the blame?

It's important that Labour mobilises its support, for sure. But starting to blame Labour for a Leave vote looks seriously out of order.

As many people have pointed out, Corbyn has made quite a number of perfectly good speeches on the subject. Where were the media then?

Absolutely. I think Cameron has to allow Corbyn the spotlight for a couple of days, and paint arrows on the road for the media to follow there.

[Tubby Isaacs]

What did Prescott actually say? He has been notably careful not to be too critical of JC in public.

The former deputy prime minister said so-called blue on blue assaults were "destroying the Tory party hopefully" but questioned "where's Labour?" in the battle.

Remain campaigners could lose the June 23 vote because Labour is failing to secure backing from its supporters, he warned.

"It seems as if we are just enjoying the fight between them but that is not putting Labour's position," Lord Prescott told BBC One's Sunday Politics.

"We are not putting Labour's arguments."

The peer said Labour was "absolutely" failing to galvanise its supporters, admitting " Jeremy's not a passionate man".

Lord Prescott said Mr Corbyn was right to refuse to share a platform with the Conservatives.

He said: " Don't say, ah well, we all believe in Europe, let's travel on the same bus. Nonsense. No wonder our people are confused.

"Get a strong Labour voice. I'm glad Jeremy's said what he said but get putting out our case and point out what these beggers did in government."

Prescott definitely strikes a chord with me with the above. It's that whole underwhelming thing I've struggled with from the start. I don't know if it's lack of experience or lack of good script writers and advisors but although he's made some ok speeches and said the right things, there is a certain lack of intensity and passion to his leadership that continues to leave me pretty uninspired. He's good at getting behind campaigns, such as the mayoral campaign for Bristol, but seems less able to be the campaign that others get behind somehow. Though I do think it's up to Cameron to convince the undecideds - It's his gig after all. Miliband's refusal to hold a referendum continues to be hands and shoulders above Cameron's short termist pandering to the Eurosceptic right in terms of principle and strong leadership. He really should have been PM.

Yep.

I said before I was unimpresed by Corbyn having supported a referendum (though not sure if he did it after 2008). But I thought he might make something positive of that- I was ahead of the game, I knew it would need a referendum to settle, Cameron only did it when his party forced him to. But he's not really managed to make that work. Would be good if he could.

[citizenJA]

Good-evening, everyone.

My spouse and I got back from seeing the new film about Ken Loach, Versus. We went to Liverpool - stunning day, sunny, warm. We're exhausted. Incredible film. About a dozen people in the audience total. I've never experienced wanting to talk with everyone else after a film before - we all felt the same.

http://www.fact.co.uk/whats-on/current/ ... -ken-loach

[ohsocynical]

I wish I didn't have to vote. I think either outcome is going to be disastrous. I hate the thought of being part of it.

I get the impression from Twitter that a lot of people are approaching it more like a GE.

[Willow904]

David Allen Green
David Allen Green‏ @DavidAllenGreen

There are a couple of questions I need to pose tomorrow to Electoral Commission before posting my @FT piece on alleged expense fraud.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I wish I didn't have to vote. I think either outcome is going to be disastrous. I hate the thought of being part of it.

I get the impression from Twitter that a lot of people are approaching it more like a GE.

Well, vote Remain and look forward to stopping the Tea Party. You'll have an incredibly weak Tory government, with their main electoral asset on borrowed time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think Labour voters will be mostly fine for Remain. They were supposed to go all UKIPpy in the local elections and didn't (at least those who hadn't already gone UKIPpy didn't).

Labour doesn't any more have that many voters among older voters, who are most Brexity.

But he'll probably get shit for too many of the Labour Remainers being in London, or something.

[ohsocynical]

I wish I didn't have to vote. I think either outcome is going to be disastrous. I hate the thought of being part of it.

I get the impression from Twitter that a lot of people are approaching it more like a GE.

Well, vote Remain and look forward to stopping the Tea Party. You'll have an incredibly weak Tory government, with their main electoral asset on borrowed time.

We won't stop the Tea Party. I don't think we'll even slow them down. And the media will provide plenty of air cover to allow the Tories to regroup.

I agree that a remain vote is probably the least worst outcome, but there's no good outcome

That's how I feel. Having to take part in what is going to be major upheaval isn't a nice feeling.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I wish I didn't have to vote. I think either outcome is going to be disastrous. I hate the thought of being part of it.

I get the impression from Twitter that a lot of people are approaching it more like a GE.

Well, vote Remain and look forward to stopping the Tea Party. You'll have an incredibly weak Tory government, with their main electoral asset on borrowed time.

We won't stop the Tea Party. I don't think we'll even slow them down. And the media will provide plenty of air cover to allow the Tories to regroup.

I agree that a remain vote is probably the least worst outcome, but there's no good outcome

The Tea Party will be at least stopped from renegotiating 40 years worth of foreign policy. And there are shedloads of backbench loons who aren't going to be happy with anything Cameron does. They're much more numerous and rightwing than Major's "bastards".

[citizenJA]

Well, vote Remain and look forward to stopping the Tea Party. You'll have an incredibly weak Tory government, with their main electoral asset on borrowed time.

We won't stop the Tea Party. I don't think we'll even slow them down. And the media will provide plenty of air cover to allow the Tories to regroup.

I agree that a remain vote is probably the least worst outcome, but there's no good outcome

That's how I feel. Having to take part in what is going to be major upheaval isn't a nice feeling.

I think it was irresponsible for UK government to foist the EU referendum upon the electorate. I understand that might be controversial
but I'm convinced it wasn't at all wise for Tory government to have an in/out EU referendum.

[citizenJA]

Well, vote Remain and look forward to stopping the Tea Party. You'll have an incredibly weak Tory government, with their main electoral asset on borrowed time.

We won't stop the Tea Party. I don't think we'll even slow them down. And the media will provide plenty of air cover to allow the Tories to regroup.

I agree that a remain vote is probably the least worst outcome, but there's no good outcome

The Tea Party will be at least stopped from renegotiating 40 years worth of foreign policy. And there are shedloads of backbench loons who aren't going to be happy with anything Cameron does. They're much more numerous and rightwing than Major's "bastards".

I hope it turns out this way too - again, the least worst outcome.

[Tubby Isaacs]

There are also enough semi-sensible ones who've already helped force U turns on tax credits, academies. I know the tax credit cuts have been shoved over to Universal Credit, but they're not going to be more palatable there, if UC even gets that far.

I can't see Cameron having any easy way of uniting the party. The time honoured "go out there and moan about immigration" isn't going to be the same. They won't get pulling out of ECHR through. Even law and order isn't going to be the unifier it was supposed to be. And they're going to miss their fiscal targets.

[citizenJA]

I've re-evaluated my position about dual nationality and holding elected office in the UK. I used to think it'd be okay to be a UK MP to
hold US citizenship as well as UK citizenship. I no longer think that's okay. The risk of a conflict of interest is too great.

I'm not passing judgement on anyone who might be or have been an MP holding dual citizenships. It's nothing to do with them. It's a personal
opinion of mine. I've changed my mind after contemplation and education. I thought I should let you know.

[ohsocynical]

The Tea Party will be at least stopped from renegotiating 40 years worth of foreign policy. And there are shedloads of backbench loons who aren't going to be happy with anything Cameron does. They're much more numerous and rightwing than Major's "bastards".

And this is going to be government when the country is in dire straights.

[ohsocynical]

We won't stop the Tea Party. I don't think we'll even slow them down. And the media will provide plenty of air cover to allow the Tories to regroup.

I agree that a remain vote is probably the least worst outcome, but there's no good outcome

That's how I feel. Having to take part in what is going to be major upheaval isn't a nice feeling.

I think it was irresponsible for UK government to foist the EU referendum upon the electorate. I understand that might be controversial
but I'm convinced it wasn't at all wise for Tory government to have an in/out EU referendum.

I think with any past governments regardless of party, we might just have got away with it, but Cameron and clan are inept, corrupt, spiteful, liars, who have been unable to plan, organise, or carry through a single thing since they were in coalition.
They will all still be in power whatever the result, but with even less - if that's possible - cohesion or team spirit.

[citizenJA]

I've encountered an interesting post elsewhere regarding the Bank of England's contingency plans in the event of the UK voting to leave the EU.

"There has never been any need for a referendum. The Conservative should have put in their manifestos that, if elected,
they would have taken Britain out of the EU. If they had then won the elections with a majority then they should have
proceeded to do so.

That is democracy."

https://discussion.theguardian.com/comm ... k/75684961

[citizenJA]

I agree with that commentator. I confess I hadn't thought of this prior to reading the post.

[mbc1955]

I agree with that commentator. I confess I hadn't thought of this prior to reading the post.

But when writing their manifesto, the Conservatives were playing the game of offering something they never expected to apply in practice, because other people would keep them from it. It backfired considerably upon them and it's going to backfire on us, one way or the other.

Besides: bold, confident manifesto promises that could potentially keep the party out of power? Just which party do you think you're talking about?

[rebeccariots2]

I think there is a serious danger of a turn-out problem. Anecdotally, I've spoken to quite a few people who are naturally Remain but have been turned off by the campaign, to the point of considering a Leave vote.

Hopefully these people won't actually cross to Leave, but there's a very fair chance they will "abstain" on the day.

I know just how they feel.

And in response to Tubby's post saying he thinks the Labour remain vote is more or less sown up and the oldy Ukippy types haven't materialised... we reckon the shift to Ukip is accelerating here and it's certainly not older people in the main. I don't reckon they've peaked - and we shouldn't be taking any voters for granted.

[rebeccariots2]

Overshadowed.jpg (49.56 KiB) Viewed 3154 times

Us Brits know how to stop em in true eccentric style, eh.

[citizenJA]

I agree with that commentator. I confess I hadn't thought of this prior to reading the post.

But when writing their manifesto, the Conservatives were playing the game of offering something they never expected to apply in practice, because other people would keep them from it. It backfired considerably upon them and it's going to backfire on us, one way or the other.

Besides: bold, confident manifesto promises that could potentially keep the party out of power? Just which party do you think you're talking about?

I know. Tories lie.

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

[HindleA]

In reasonable benign times,a UBI may be worth consideration although I have yet to see" simplification",not utilised as a method of reduction and removal or appropriated to those ends,an absolute disaster for sick/disabled people and carers,particularly the poorest,as services replace income which inevitably will occur at best,speeding up the process already intended regardless of "wing".The idea of a benign State,or anything like it in the foreseeable future,I find laughable.IMHO.