I think that's yet another declaration / threat that could backfire on Remain - it sounds like real disrespect for the outcome of the vote and the voters. Could likely rile people.PorFavor wrote:A second referendum? Well, why not if the first one was so successful . . .Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision
MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum
A British Union flag and an EU flag are seen flying outside the EU commission headquarters in Brussels (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-decision
Monday 6th.june 2016
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- rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Working on the wild side.
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
rebeccariots2 wrote:I think that's yet another declaration / threat that could backfire on Remain - it sounds like real disrespect for the outcome of the vote and the voters. Could likely rile people.PorFavor wrote:A second referendum? Well, why not if the first one was so successful . . .Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision
MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum
A British Union flag and an EU flag are seen flying outside the EU commission headquarters in Brussels (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-decision
Yes - it's almost bound to.
Edited to add -
Could well have the effect of boosting the turnout of "Outers" and "Doubters" (who may become "Outers" for the day) to try to ensure a very decisive result.
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 06 Jun, 2016 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
There are the lefty Brexiters too, Skinner, Campbell, Hopkins. They need a bit of a telling off. Goes down well with the media too.
Don't think Cameron us powerful enough to play anyone really. He doesn't even know when the Cabinet is meeting.
Don't think Cameron us powerful enough to play anyone really. He doesn't even know when the Cabinet is meeting.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
It's also a get out for PM Johnson or Gove when the EU offers them the EEA or Switzerland. Not us, guv. It was Ken Clarke. He's a traitor.PorFavor wrote:A second referendum? Well, why not if the first one was so successful . . .Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision
MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum
A British Union flag and an EU flag are seen flying outside the EU commission headquarters in Brussels (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-decision
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I wonder what Farage has to say about the appalling activities of the British paedophile who has been sentenced today ?
Or is he too busy trying to paint migrants as a threat to British women & children to care about foreign children ?
Or is he too busy trying to paint migrants as a threat to British women & children to care about foreign children ?
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
There's a bad moon on the rise.PorFavor wrote:A second referendum? Well, why not if the first one was so successful . . .Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision
MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum
A British Union flag and an EU flag are seen flying outside the EU commission headquarters in Brussels (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-decision
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I've just read the article. A bad leader, Dave Cameron. What a mess he's made. Absolutely wretched. Irresponsible, unthinking, never had to think seriously in his life. I'm sorry for people and country. A mess.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Talk of Trump and Gingrich.
Could any Democrat not defeat that pairing?! Although...
fivethirtyeight had a piece on which presidential candidates had th the lowest approval ratings since the early 70s.
Bottom,Trump.
Second bottom, HRC (yes I realise she's not the official Democrat candidate yet). Scary what a combination of freak events could culminate in.
Could any Democrat not defeat that pairing?! Although...
fivethirtyeight had a piece on which presidential candidates had th the lowest approval ratings since the early 70s.
Bottom,Trump.
Second bottom, HRC (yes I realise she's not the official Democrat candidate yet). Scary what a combination of freak events could culminate in.
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I despair.StephenDolan wrote:Talk of Trump and Gingrich.
Could any Democrat not defeat that pairing?! Although...
fivethirtyeight had a piece on which presidential candidates had th the lowest approval ratings since the early 70s.
Bottom,Trump.
Second bottom, HRC (yes I realise she's not the official Democrat candidate yet). Scary what a combination of freak events could culminate in.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Someone on CIF quoted Hotel California.citizenJA wrote:There's a bad moon on the rise.PorFavor wrote:A second referendum? Well, why not if the first one was so successful . . .Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision
MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum
A British Union flag and an EU flag are seen flying outside the EU commission headquarters in Brussels (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-decision
You can check out anytime you like.....but you can never leave.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I see George Eaton has finally caught up with me and is blogging about the possibility of a UK Remain vote where England has voted Leave
Sadly, I think this is highly likely at present.
Sadly, I think this is highly likely at present.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
London and Scotland remain, the rest of England leave. May you live in interesting times...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Have completed my postal vote, forgot to do it on Friday.
It is signed, sealed and waiting to post tomorrow when I have to go to town for my GP appointment.
It is signed, sealed and waiting to post tomorrow when I have to go to town for my GP appointment.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
StephenDolan wrote:London and Scotland remain, the rest of England leave. May you live in interesting times...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
<ahem> Wales is not part of England
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
My sister sees it even more starkly than that - London and some of the other more progressive and affluent cities such as Bristol, Oxford, Cambridge etc voting Remain - rest of country voting Out.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
Last edited by rebeccariots2 on Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
One of the best reasons yet for staying in the EU.Michael @TheRightArticle 43m43 minutes ago
Recall of Monsanto's Roundup likely as EU refuses limited use of glyphosate -
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... glyphosate
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
There is going to be so much trouble we won't know which way to turn.rebeccariots2 wrote:My sister sees it even more starkly than that - London and some of the other more progressive and affluent cities such as Bristol, Oxford, Cambridge etc voting Remain - rest of country voting Out.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
'Online advertising raises more Tory electoral fraud claims'.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/0 ... ud-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/0 ... ud-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Cat Smith!!yahyah wrote:'Online advertising raises more Tory electoral fraud claims'.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/06/0 ... ud-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Tory government would like nothing better than to keep the population in a permanent state of emergency.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
The trouble is that Cameron has got so much form now - no one believes him. He can't really rubbish the 2.4bn EU bill that Leave are talking about because of his stupid stunt with the last EU bill that there was 'no way' we're paying - shouting to the press how outrageous it was before caving in and quietly paying it. His former lies, U turns and dissimulation make him the opposite of credible and trustworthy.
Not saying anyone else on the Leave side is particularly wonderful mind.
The only person who seems to have kept their cool and not overplayed the passionate promises and pledges - is - strangely - Corbyn.
Not saying anyone else on the Leave side is particularly wonderful mind.
The only person who seems to have kept their cool and not overplayed the passionate promises and pledges - is - strangely - Corbyn.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
If that happens then Brexit will win easily - maybe in the high 50s. That remains highly unlikely IMO.rebeccariots2 wrote:My sister sees it even more starkly than that - London and some of the other more progressive and affluent cities such as Bristol, Oxford, Cambridge etc voting Remain - rest of country voting Out.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
Let's not forget that "leavers" tend to be more vocal if not shouty - I am totally unconvinced (despite some claims) that there are lots of "shy Brexiters" out there.
(the opposite is considerably more likely to be true)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
BTL on AS
If we BREXIT and it is down to that aging, useless Trot, and there is an ensuing bonfire of workers' rights plus recession that sees hundreds of thousands of jobs lost and working families hit, well, then I hope Jeremy and his conscience spend many happy evenings together, because he will be as much to blame as people like Gove and Boris. Exactly how useless does he have to be for the scales to fall from the eyes of his supporters?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Is that our old pal Hugo ?
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
'Shy Remains' has a certain ring about it.AnatolyKasparov wrote:If that happens then Brexit will win easily - maybe in the high 50s. That remains highly unlikely IMO.rebeccariots2 wrote:My sister sees it even more starkly than that - London and some of the other more progressive and affluent cities such as Bristol, Oxford, Cambridge etc voting Remain - rest of country voting Out.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
Let's not forget that "leavers" tend to be more vocal if not shouty - I am totally unconvinced (despite some claims) that there are lots of "shy Brexiters" out there.
(the opposite is considerably more likely to be true)
Working on the wild side.
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Cooling Tower1yahyah wrote:Is that our old pal Hugo ?
Don't think it's Hugo - account has been opened a few years now - virtually every post is anti-Corbyn.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Was just looking at the Scottish referendum polls.
There were some polls giving Yes a lead several weeks before the ballot. Yet on the day No won by nearly 11 points.
There were some polls giving Yes a lead several weeks before the ballot. Yet on the day No won by nearly 11 points.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Don't forget how much bigger England is than the rUK (in population terms) This could only realistically happen if England was as near split down the middle as makes no difference. Even "only" 52% for Brexit there might be (just) enough.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I see George Eaton has finally caught up with me and is blogging about the possibility of a UK Remain vote where England has voted Leave
Sadly, I think this is highly likely at present.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
With the proviso it is the Mail....Union activists threaten Labour MPs with reduced funding over Corbyn disloyalty
Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... z4AokgLU8J
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
It is not essential to provide your national insurance (NI) number when registering to vote. If you don’t know your NI number – which can usually be found on payslips or official letters about benefits, tax or pensions – you can just say soby giving a simple explanation. It is then up to your local council to verify your identity.
Although online registration closes for the majority of voters on 7 June, local electoral registration offices have longer to verify your identity. Whatever you do make sure you register to vote. You can think about who to vote for later.
“Under the new online registration system it’s just one of the ways you can have your identity verified,” says Oliver Sidorczuk, director of Bite the Ballot. “If you fill in the application, without your national insurance number, it’s your local council’s duty to verify you.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... er-to-vote
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
They kept that one quiet....ohsocynical wrote:It is not essential to provide your national insurance (NI) number when registering to vote. If you don’t know your NI number – which can usually be found on payslips or official letters about benefits, tax or pensions – you can just say soby giving a simple explanation. It is then up to your local council to verify your identity.
Although online registration closes for the majority of voters on 7 June, local electoral registration offices have longer to verify your identity. Whatever you do make sure you register to vote. You can think about who to vote for later.
“Under the new online registration system it’s just one of the ways you can have your identity verified,” says Oliver Sidorczuk, director of Bite the Ballot. “If you fill in the application, without your national insurance number, it’s your local council’s duty to verify you.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... er-to-vote
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Man's a dick. My sister used to live in the French Alps but worked in Switzerland. She had to go through passport control both ways every day.StephenDolan wrote:Q: Would there be a border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic?
No, says Farage. He says the Republic was sensible enough not to join the Schengen area.
Q: So how would you stop EU citizens coming to Ireland, and then travelling to Northern Ireland?
Farage says that is something you would have to keep an eye on.
As Bertie Ahern pointed out over the weekend, there are about 200 roads across the border. How's Farage going to keep an eye on all of them?
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Corbyn and pals want to take potshots at anyone, the useful idiots in Brexit Labour would be a better target. But that would mean attacking some old Campaign Group pals, so it doesn't happen.
What they've done, with the cross party gloss they've given to the loony right is worse than Harman and Sadiq. There's a sectarian streak to the leader's team. Don't like it.
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
It's really teeing me off...It's bloody Tories most likely to vote Brexit. It's them he has to convince. Not us...danesclose wrote:Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Corbyn and pals want to take potshots at anyone, the useful idiots in Brexit Labour would be a better target. But that would mean attacking some old Campaign Group pals, so it doesn't happen.
What they've done, with the cross party gloss they've given to the loony right is worse than Harman and Sadiq. There's a sectarian streak to the leader's team. Don't like it.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Ditto Northern Irelandyahyah wrote:StephenDolan wrote:London and Scotland remain, the rest of England leave. May you live in interesting times...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The other scenario where UK votes Leave but Scotland has voted Remain is of course another hideous possible outcome.
<ahem> Wales is not part of England
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Evening folks,
A bit baffled by the big yellow thing in that blue stuff up there. No fleeces either.
Anyway, here's a possible EU vote scenario. Voting happens, count takes ages because of the need to verify NI numbers etc, during which time it becomes clear backstage that Brexit is winning.
Cue a sudden decision to retake the General Election due to the large scale irregularities (which by then will be blamed on everybody), but with the referendum promise omitted in the name of economic security. Bingo, it never happened.
A bit baffled by the big yellow thing in that blue stuff up there. No fleeces either.
Anyway, here's a possible EU vote scenario. Voting happens, count takes ages because of the need to verify NI numbers etc, during which time it becomes clear backstage that Brexit is winning.
Cue a sudden decision to retake the General Election due to the large scale irregularities (which by then will be blamed on everybody), but with the referendum promise omitted in the name of economic security. Bingo, it never happened.
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Not Corbyn, Ohso, its Cameron who needs to convince.ohsocynical wrote:It's really teeing me off...It's bloody Tories most likely to vote Brexit. It's them he has to convince. Not us...danesclose wrote:Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Corbyn and pals want to take potshots at anyone, the useful idiots in Brexit Labour would be a better target. But that would mean attacking some old Campaign Group pals, so it doesn't happen.
What they've done, with the cross party gloss they've given to the loony right is worse than Harman and Sadiq. There's a sectarian streak to the leader's team. Don't like it.
Corbyn's done his job
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I see the Remain stuff today was genuinely cross party- emphasis on not just economy but liberal stuff like workers rights and environmental protection.
Cameron is being forced away from his party.
Cameron is being forced away from his party.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
This YouGov map of Euroscepticism is a bit old (Feb), but it's still interesting.
https://yougov.co.uk/yougov-8545/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://yougov.co.uk/yougov-8545/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Deleted double post.
Last edited by 55DegreesNorth on Mon 06 Jun, 2016 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Bear in mind that:Tubby Isaacs wrote:Anyway, when the "proper left" supported leaving the EU, they happily joshed about with Bill Cash etc. They can't blame Sadiq or Harman for doing the same.
(a) It's an incomplete, nay virtually non-existent quote
(b) Chris Ship is hardly a friend of Labour
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Steve Bell's latest cartoon & ...If strip are very apposite (need to scroll down for the latest ...If)
http://www.belltoons.co.uk/hotoffpress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.belltoons.co.uk/hotoffpress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Because we need all the votes we can get. If Cameron can't get his votes out, the Leader of the Opposition's needs to get even more of his.danesclose wrote:Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Corbyn and pals want to take potshots at anyone, the useful idiots in Brexit Labour would be a better target. But that would mean attacking some old Campaign Group pals, so it doesn't happen.
What they've done, with the cross party gloss they've given to the loony right is worse than Harman and Sadiq. There's a sectarian streak to the leader's team. Don't like it.
I agree with you that Labour voters look like they'll be OK. There will be data on that. It's going to be very hard for anybody to make out it was Corbyn's fault, not Cameron's.
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
I agree that we need to get out every vote, not least because the Tory Remain campaign on the whole has been completely shambolic.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Because we need all the votes we can get. If Cameron can't get his votes out, the Leader of the Opposition's needs to get even more of his.danesclose wrote:Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Corbyn and pals want to take potshots at anyone, the useful idiots in Brexit Labour would be a better target. But that would mean attacking some old Campaign Group pals, so it doesn't happen.
What they've done, with the cross party gloss they've given to the loony right is worse than Harman and Sadiq. There's a sectarian streak to the leader's team. Don't like it.
I agree with you that Labour voters look like they'll be OK. There will be data on that. It's going to be very hard for anybody to make out it was Corbyn's fault, not Cameron's.
However, regarding Corbyn, the Bitterite campaign to make him partially to blame has already started
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
One thing we have learned over the last six years...No matter how outlandish, impossible or ill thought out, the Tories are stupid enough to do it.55DegreesNorth wrote:Evening folks,
A bit baffled by the big yellow thing in that blue stuff up there. No fleeces either.
Anyway, here's a possible EU vote scenario. Voting happens, count takes ages because of the need to verify NI numbers etc, during which time it becomes clear backstage that Brexit is winning.
Cue a sudden decision to retake the General Election due to the large scale irregularities (which by then will be blamed on everybody), but with the referendum promise omitted in the name of economic security. Bingo, it never happened.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
It's really difficult isn't it Robert? I understand Tubby's desperation to ensure Remain wins, but the history of Cameron shows us just how he'll stomp on his allies once he doesn't need them any more. What is needed is some kind of "I agree with Jeremy" moment from the Remain Tories, Kuenssberg and the rest of the establishment. If they need Corbyn, let them move towards his position, which in my view is both principled and pragmatic (and articulated well by McDonnell too). If he holds his nerve this could happen.RobertSnozers wrote:'Who's this "we", paleface'?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Because we need all the votes we can get. If Cameron can't get his votes out, the Leader of the Opposition's needs to get even more of his.danesclose wrote: Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.
I agree with you that Labour voters look like they'll be OK. There will be data on that. It's going to be very hard for anybody to make out it was Corbyn's fault, not Cameron's.
If the result is 'leave' we'll need an intact Labour party more than ever. There may not always be an EU but there will always need to be a party that stands up for the majority against the exploitation of a minority.
Data will mean nothing. If there is a vote to leave, there will be powerful people who want to make it Corbyn's fault, just as there were powerful people who wanted to make the recession Gordon's fault, and powerful people who wanted to make Labour's 2015 loss the fault of the left. They managed to make those stick, and they'll make the referendum loss stick to Corbyn. And suddenly Hilary Benn is looking like the next leader again. How convenient.
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Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Didn't make myself clear. I meant Cameron.danesclose wrote:Not Corbyn, Ohso, its Cameron who needs to convince.ohsocynical wrote:It's really teeing me off...It's bloody Tories most likely to vote Brexit. It's them he has to convince. Not us...danesclose wrote: Why is Corbyn expected to come out & save Cameron's arse? According to all the polls, Labour voters are the demographic most likely to vote Remain.
Corbyn's done his job
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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- Prime Minister
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Tories use, chew, and spit out.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9949
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm
Re: Monday 6th.june 2016
Cameron is a busted flush. Don't worry about him.