Wednesday 8th June 2016

Post by **refitman** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 7:25 am

Morning!

Did anyone watch the "debate" then? Sounds like it was a pretty poor event.

I was at the Pub Quiz (which our team won

)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 8:29 am

Here's George Eaton's account

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... nconverted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-referendum-debate-david-cameron-outshines-nigel-farage-appealing-unconverted

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 8:45 am

We watched about ten minutes.
My husband issued me with a stern warning not to shout at the tv.

At a purely visual, personality level, Cameron looked edgy and uncomfortable while Farage did his usual noisy, blustery, confident snake oil salesman act. He looked less sweaty than usual, presume that may have been one of the reasons he has given up booze for a week.

Had to turn it off as my blood pressure when the doctor checked it yesterday was still very high and Farage ain't worth getting ill over.

What was depressing this morning was hearing a working class family from Hull interviewed on Radio 4. After watching the debate they are now unanimous about voting Leave.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 8:51 am

Did the Tories declare all their bus expenses ?....invoices etc seem to show only three buses had claims for campaign decoration livery yet there were maybe as many as seven buses used.

http://randomscribblingnotepad.blogspot ... l?spref=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 8:51 am

Agree with you yahyah - Cameron looked pretty rough. Heavy makeup couldn't conceal the bags and rings under his eyes. If I didn't think the man was impermeable to real emotion I'd have said he looked pretty panicked on occasion - you know, that moment when you can see the brain mechanics as he does a gear change to avoid talking about his renegotiation ('Feeble' indeed Robert Snozers. You are so right.) or controlling overall immigration.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 8:54 am

He did look tired didn't he ?
Maybe one of the few times in his charmed life that things aren't going according to plan...presuming he had a plan of course.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:02 am

Thousands of EU referendum postal votes feared lost in Germany
Germany’s postal service says some of its workers rejected pre-paid envelopes sent out to British voters living abroad
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... st-germany" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 100,000 British citizens are registered as living in Germany. The confusion has arisen partly because the European Union has so far failed to regulate the size of standard letters across the continent.

Some post offices in Germany have informed British citizens that they could not accept the A5 envelopes sent out on the IBRS scheme since they did not comply with the German definition of a standard letter, namely no larger than 90x140mm in size and weighing no more than 50g. Royal Mail, by contrast, classifies A5 envelopes as standard letters...

That F'ing red tape, eh. Why can't we have full on conformity .... GAAAAH.

Not sure which side will feel this proves their point the most.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:08 am

I hate the sanitised 'debate' format Cameron has introduced / foisted on the UK public. A debate where two speakers don't even share the stage together - there is no direct contact or discussion, no immediate contrast between the points of view that can be drawn by the audience - and the one who goes last (Cameron inevitably) gets the most impact by having the last word and a bit of advantage in being able to pick up on the points made by the first speaker. Plus - on this occasion - a bit of added extra deference from Etchingham - not interrupting him when he ran over time.

I couldn't have drawn much out of that 'exchange' - certainly didn't help me to make up my mind. Two misleading shits - one after the other.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:09 am

But I thought the EU ruled our lives down to what colour knickers we have to wear.

Surely there is EUSSR fascist edict number 245,0000 that says all EU countries must have the same postal regulations and envelopes on pain of life imprisonment ?
Or is it a cunning Merkel conspiracy to thwart the efforts of the Great British Lion to roar again ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:14 am

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/201 ... calisation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Potential for cuts via the backdoor.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:14 am

yahyah wrote:But I thought the EU ruled our lives down to what colour knickers we have to wear.

Surely there is EUSSR fascist edict number 245,0000 that says all EU countries must have the same postal regulations and envelopes on pain of life imprisonment ?
Or is it a cunning Merkel conspiracy to thwart the efforts of the Great British Lion to roar again ?

I think that the pre-paid envelope thing is something basic which should have been sorted well ahead of time. But then this government doesn't do detail.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:18 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:37 am

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-15-16/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PAC Report on Personal Budgets.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:41 am

Bus Services Bill Second Reading in the Lords today,apparently it bans local councils setting up bus companies.

http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... /6/8/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:46 am

HindleA wrote:Bus Services Bill Second Reading in the Lords today,apparently it bans local councils setting up bus companies.

http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... /6/8/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FFS.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:50 am

Opposition day debates on the BBC White Paper and the Disability Employment Gap/Removal of the perverse incentive not to die quickly enough.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 9:59 am

Universal Credit is to blame for 78% of rent arrears

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2016 ... nt-arrears" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As predicted by absolutely everybody in the housing sector.

Well done IDS and the government of all the morons.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 10:02 am

GetYou wrote:
Universal Credit is to blame for 78% of rent arrears

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2016 ... nt-arrears" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As predicted by absolutely everybody in the housing sector.

Well done IDS and the government of all the morons.

It is incredible that they managed to persist with the claim that monthly payments in arrears would make people able to manage their very limited budgets better .... when it will do precisely the opposite. It gives people no money to manage. Instant debt and arrears. And these people are trusted on the economy.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 10:27 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Thousands of EU referendum postal votes feared lost in Germany
Germany’s postal service says some of its workers rejected pre-paid envelopes sent out to British voters living abroad
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... st-germany" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 100,000 British citizens are registered as living in Germany. The confusion has arisen partly because the European Union has so far failed to regulate the size of standard letters across the continent.

Some post offices in Germany have informed British citizens that they could not accept the A5 envelopes sent out on the IBRS scheme since they did not comply with the German definition of a standard letter, namely no larger than 90x140mm in size and weighing no more than 50g. Royal Mail, by contrast, classifies A5 envelopes as standard letters...
That F'ing red tape, eh. Why can't we have full on conformity .... GAAAAH.

Not sure which side will feel this proves their point the most.

Why doesn't the mail carrier simply demand the addressee pay the difference on delivery? I blame privatisation myself!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 10:54 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
GetYou wrote:
Universal Credit is to blame for 78% of rent arrears

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2016 ... nt-arrears" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As predicted by absolutely everybody in the housing sector.

Well done IDS and the government of all the morons.
It is incredible that they managed to persist with the claim that monthly payments in arrears would make people able to manage their very limited budgets better .... when it will do precisely the opposite. It gives people no money to manage. Instant debt and arrears. And these people are trusted on the economy.

I'm going to save this article to throw back at all the holier than thou types who sneer at people on low incomes for not managing their money properly:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36466186" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A third of middle-class families would need to borrow to pay an unexpected bill of £500, according to a new survey.

The YouGov poll for the Times found 31% of ABC1 workers, which includes junior managers and professionals, would struggle to pay a sum of that size.

If middle class people struggle to save in our modern consumerist society of high house prices and stagnant wages, what hope for those floating in and out of low paid, insecure work?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 11:05 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!

Did anyone watch the "debate" then? Sounds like it was a pretty poor event.

I was at the Pub Quiz (which our team won )

And I was at our quiz league AGM, funnily enough

Many people seem to think Farage came off worse in the "debate", intriguingly.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 11:06 am

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1456021 ... to-the-nhs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's see the BBC news cover and discuss the contents.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 11:13 am

Willow904 wrote: Why doesn't the mail carrier simply demand the addressee pay the difference on delivery? I blame privatisation myself!

I read this as meaning that they wouldn't accept the reply-paid return envelopes. If I'm correct, then the problem would be solved by just sticking stamps on them.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

StephenDolan wrote:http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1456021 ... to-the-nhs

Let's see the BBC news cover and discuss the contents.

But.....but........Michael Gove is going to save the NHS if we vote for Brexit!! :lol!:

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:14 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Why doesn't the mail carrier simply demand the addressee pay the difference on delivery? I blame privatisation myself!
I read this as meaning that they wouldn't accept the reply-paid return envelopes. If I'm correct, then the problem would be solved by just sticking stamps on them.

I was thinking more of the ones dropped in the mail box, by people who didn't know Her Majesty's Government hadn't paid enough postage. Surely they would still be delivered - along with a bill for the shortfall.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:20 pm

Apparently the vote registration website crashed before midnight's deadline - there are now calls for a short extension.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:20 pm

Matt Hancock ‏@MattHancockMP 5m5 minutes ago
The Govt registration website is open. People not yet registered to vote in the #EUref should apply NOW http://gov.uk/register-to-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Re-opened but not sure for how long.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:22 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!

Did anyone watch the "debate" then? Sounds like it was a pretty poor event.

I was at the Pub Quiz (which our team won )
And I was at our quiz league AGM, funnily enough

Many people seem to think Farage came off worse in the "debate", intriguingly.
Someone (perhaps predictably) BTL on the Guardian's panel analysis was moaning that only the Guardian of all the UK media was saying that Cameron came off better. I'm not prepared to trawl through the rightwing media to test this theory, but the Telegraph's panel report (perhaps predictably) is more positive about Farage than Cameron http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... dum-debat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure if the above claim is true - quite a few right wing pundits last night thought Farage was poor.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Apparently the vote registration website crashed before midnight's deadline - there are now calls for a short extension.

From last night...tweet underneath was from 31st May.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:25 pm

A watchdog insisted it was acting "with complete impartiality" after the Conservatives raised concerns about potential bias in an investigation of the party's election expenses.
Tories face an Electoral Commission probe and police inquiries over allegations that spending on buses transporting activists to campaign in key marginal seats was not properly recorded.
Channel 4 News said the party's lawyers had written to the Commission about anti-Tory social media

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/art ... probe.html

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:37 pm

2m ago 12:32

Alex Cunningham, the Labour MP, asks Cameron to do more for carers.

Cameron thanks them for what they do, for the money they save the government, and for the love they give. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Pass the sick-bag, Alice.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:41 pm

Nicholas Quinn ‏@theflightyquinn 3h3 hours ago

Something Nick Robinson said last week about Jeremy Corbyn really bothered me. "If he wants media coverage he has our number"

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:47 pm

Bah ! Andrew must have been watching a different episode ....

: ScreenShot01409.jpg (35.22 KiB) Viewed 8674 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:48 pm

[youtube]TlppIdtLw5A[/youtube]

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:49 pm

Thought of the day

: quote-Carl-Jung-where-love-rules-there-is-no-will-.jpg (51.39 KiB) Viewed 8669 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:49 pm

PMQs is in any case fairly academic until after the 23rd, really.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:01 pm

Last one for a few hours, bedtime beckons.

: ScreenShot01410.jpg (132.54 KiB) Viewed 8650 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:05 pm

Ben Bradshaw, the Labour MP, says he has heard there have been problems with processing ballot papers sent from abroad.

Have there? I haven't heard about this one. (Unless it's the size of the envelope\postage problem - but that wouldn't affect the "processing", surely?)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:07 pm

To be fair,finally exempting carers from the benefit cap after repeated lies they were already exempt,spending vast amounts to ensure necessary rooms for care remain chargeable,removing CA from thousands that were previously eligible,removing the ability to work and receive any housing support for the poorest carer homeowners,penalising those in work both WTC changes and refusing to adjust to account for allowable income from paid employment,bringing in full conditionality to carers of disabled young children and refusing to make that contigent on alternative care arrangements being available,Cameron's concern shines through.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:09 pm

Hi Toby.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:15 pm

Nick Sommerlad ‏@NickSommerlad 2h2 hours ago

NEW: Sussex police today becomes 20th force to appeal for more time to probe Tory election spending

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:22 pm

In other news, Donald Trump has a new backer as the next POTUS...........George Galloway.

Is anybody even surprised?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:25 pm

You jest. Tell me you jest.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

£1 billion spent on teacher bursaries – but no one knows if they work, says spending watchdog

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/1-billion-spen ... g-watchdog

Almost £1 billion will have been spent on bursaries for new teachers by next year, but their effectiveness has not been properly evaluated, the National Audit Office has warned.

Mark Parrett, audit manager at the government spending watchdog, told the House of Commons education committee this morning that his organisation’s request for better evaluation of incentives for new teachers had not been met by the Department for Education.

There's a surprise...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 56m56 minutes ago
Our exclusive story on turnout:Faisal Islam added,

Sky News @SkyNews
The #EUref could see a record-breaking voter turnout, of about 80% http://trib.al/u2QbZjr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:06 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Matt Hancock ‏@MattHancockMP 5m5 minutes ago
The Govt registration website is open. People not yet registered to vote in the #EUref should apply NOW http://gov.uk/register-to-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Re-opened but not sure for how long.

I don't think it will close, it's not tied to the EUref, the date is just a cut-off for councils to do their admin before the vote.
People can go on applying.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:24 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Why doesn't the mail carrier simply demand the addressee pay the difference on delivery? I blame privatisation myself!
I read this as meaning that they wouldn't accept the reply-paid return envelopes. If I'm correct, then the problem would be solved by just sticking stamps on them.
I was thinking more of the ones dropped in the mail box, by people who didn't know Her Majesty's Government hadn't paid enough postage. Surely they would still be delivered - along with a bill for the shortfall.

Seems only to be a problem if you try to hand them in at a post office where the counter clerk is unfamiliar with the International Reply Service. The advice is just to "throw" them in a post box.

“As IBRS is a product that is seldom posted at our outlets it might happen that a retail partner who is not familiar with IBRS requests postage from the sender,” said the spokesperson. “In this case, the customers concerned can alternatively throw the envelopes in one of our 110,000 letterboxes.” He said that the chances of postal workers handling letters in the post boxes not forwarding the letters to the UK were “extremely small”.

The headline does appear to be something of an exaggeration - but that seems to be par for the course in this referendum!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:26 pm

Oh dear...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

gilsey wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Matt Hancock ‏@MattHancockMP 5m5 minutes ago
The Govt registration website is open. People not yet registered to vote in the #EUref should apply NOW http://gov.uk/register-to-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Re-opened but not sure for how long.
I don't think it will close, it's not tied to the EUref, the date is just a cut-off for councils to do their admin before the vote.
People can go on applying.

That's what I thought, but if it gives people an extra nudge to register, even if government don't extend because of the site failure last night, all those extra people will be eligible to vote in regular elections. Win, win.