Saturday and Sunday, 11th and 12th June respectively, 2016

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 9:10 pm

Wouldn't that be Monmouth, not Brecon and Radnor?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 9:53 pm

You know, when you've had to listen to Tyldesley and Hoddle over-hyping everything for 90 minutes, conceding injury time equalisers aren't quite so bad.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 10:30 pm

Sir Philip Green calls for Frank Field to resign
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... hs-topshop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Green wrote that the Labour MP’s continued participation in the inquiry would only “obstruct a resolution”.

"I am not prepared to participate in a process which has not even the pretence of fairness and objectivity
and which has as its primary objective the destruction of my reputation,” he wrote. “I therefore require
you to resign immediately from this inquiry."

Altogether the wrong approach here from Green, according to the article.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:13 pm

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 14m14 minutes ago
Tory MPs say Robert Syms asked them to sign letter giving Cameron a stay of execution until October if he loses. But no one wanted to sign

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 15m15 minutes ago
Save Dave plan failed: Tory MPs refused to sign letter saying Cameron should stay until autumn if he loses referendum. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 16m16 minutes ago
Tories will keep a low profile on Mon/Tues so Labour figures can lead Remain campaign after panic sets in

I assume this panic move wasn't helped by this

Tom McTague Retweeted
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 44m44 minutes ago
YouGov EUReferendum poll Remain 42% Leave 43%

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:15 pm

Or this ...

Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick 28m28 minutes ago
Sunday Times:
Leaked UK plan to open door for 1m Turks
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers

Front page story on Sunday Times - according to the sub head 'Proposal under wraps until after EU vote'.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:21 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Or this ...
Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick 28m28 minutes ago
Sunday Times:
Leaked UK plan to open door for 1m Turks
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers
Front page story on Sunday Times - according to the sub head 'Proposal under wraps until after EU vote'.

Just how utterly incompetent do you have to be to have this sort of thing being discussed in govt circles at a time like this?

Unless of course it was a Brexit minister in the FCO that started the ball rolling and then leaked it...a bit Machiavellian that.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:32 pm

Over at UK Polling Report they're having a discussion about whether a snap general election in October is on the cards if it's a Brexit win and a new Tory leader is installed. Some are querying whether the opposition would actually support a motion of no confidence - which is what it would take - if they don't particularly want, and probably can't afford, an election that quickly. Hmmmm.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:39 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Over at UK Polling Report they're having a discussion about whether a snap general election in October is on the cards if it's a Brexit win and a new Tory leader is installed. Some are querying whether the opposition would actually support a motion of no confidence - which is what it would take - if they don't particularly want, and probably can't afford, an election that quickly. Hmmmm.

Rather depends on who the new Tory leader is - and let's not forget that the members only get the chance to decide between the final two once the others have been eliminated. Osborne's reputation isn't that great now after the Budget. May? Immigration figures probably against her.

Not sure that Boris has as great a fanbase within the Parliamentary party as he has outside. I could see someone like Hammond standing as a consensus candidate.

Depending on who the new leader is, Labour might want to keep them going just to watch the fun - especially if it was Boris!

All kinds of permutations are possible...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:50 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Over at UK Polling Report they're having a discussion about whether a snap general election in October is on the cards if it's a Brexit win and a new Tory leader is installed. Some are querying whether the opposition would actually support a motion of no confidence - which is what it would take - if they don't particularly want, and probably can't afford, an election that quickly. Hmmmm.
Rather depends on who the new Tory leader is - and let's not forget that the members only get the chance to decide between the final two once the others have been eliminated. Osborne's reputation isn't that great now after the Budget. May? Immigration figures probably against her.

Not sure that Boris has as great a fanbase within the Parliamentary party as he has outside. I could see someone like Hammond standing as a consensus candidate.

Depending on who the new leader is, Labour might want to keep them going just to watch the fun - especially if it was Boris!

All kinds of permutations are possible...

Yes - and many of the Tories may prefer to limp on for as long as they can rather than risk an election.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:53 pm

: Whistleblower on Turkey.jpg (28.29 KiB) Viewed 6066 times

Good grief. No holds barred.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:54 pm

I forgot to mention Gove...the problem with any Brexit cabinet member is that they seemingly went along with government policies for 5-6 years - esp. on immigration - before suddenly deciding that they didn't, after all, agree with them.

I could see more than one MP pointing this out in a leadership contest.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 11 Jun, 2016 11:58 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Whistleblower on Turkey.jpg
Good grief. No holds barred.

That looks like complete bollocks. The Foreign Office have been cut right back, and have enough to do preparing for Brexit.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:00 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Or this ...
Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick 28m28 minutes ago
Sunday Times:
Leaked UK plan to open door for 1m Turks
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers
Front page story on Sunday Times - according to the sub head 'Proposal under wraps until after EU vote'.
Just how utterly incompetent do you have to be to have this sort of thing being discussed in govt circles at a time like this?

Unless of course it was a Brexit minister in the FCO that started the ball rolling and then leaked it...a bit Machiavellian that.

Think youre not being over Machiavellian. Plus of course discussion of hypotheticals always happens.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:02 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Over at UK Polling Report they're having a discussion about whether a snap general election in October is on the cards if it's a Brexit win and a new Tory leader is installed. Some are querying whether the opposition would actually support a motion of no confidence - which is what it would take - if they don't particularly want, and probably can't afford, an election that quickly. Hmmmm.

It needs more than a motion of no confidence, because of the fixed term thing.

Labour should say "you have a mandatem govern".

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:07 am

Looks like Sunday Times lying.

Visa free travel for Turks is tourism

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:32 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Looks like Sunday Times lying.

Visa free travel for Turks is tourism

as I said to you a few weeks ago Tubby, it is not surprising as it is all they have left (but it is working unfortunately) and the lies will only get worse

I am actually of the same view on the economics side of the people who said today the short-term impact on the economy could be underplayed although because the whole economic world is so out of kilter it may not have much difference.

I think when the reality sets in after an exit vote, and there is then no clear plan as to what comes next, especially if immigration is the key topic (hence in effect ruling us out of the EEA) then the pound will drop massively and there will be money pulled out of the UK - long-term bonds interest rates increase significantly as well perhaps?

These next two weeks are going to be nasty......it is not showing our country in a good light

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 2:11 am

Good grief, not only has the Chief Bish come out as a Remainer, but he appears to follow the Corbyn line:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 8:04 am

David Cameron says state pensions could be at risk if Brexit becomes reality

David Cameron has warned that pledges to raise state pensions every year and ringfence spending for the NHS may have to be ditched in a brutal new phase of austerity if the country votes for Brexit.(Guardian)

If this is true, why did David Cameron take such a gamble by calling a referendum? (Rhetorical question.)

It's hardly surprising that voters don't believe him, is it? Stupid, stupid man.

Edited to add link -

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ld-reality

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 8:06 am

Good morfternoon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 8:42 am

PorFavor wrote:
David Cameron says state pensions could be at risk if Brexit becomes reality

David Cameron has warned that pledges to raise state pensions every year and ringfence spending for the NHS may have to be ditched in a brutal new phase of austerity if the country votes for Brexit.(Guardian)
If this is true, why did David Cameron take such a gamble by calling a referendum? (Rhetorical question.)

It's hardly surprising that voters don't believe him, is it? Stupid, stupid man.

Edited to add link -

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ld-reality

Quite. And this from the man who said he had no doubt the UK could thrive outside the EU - a mere few months ago. Not just stupid - he's an arsehole for continually taking the electorate for fools.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 8:59 am

I see Conservative Home haven't forgotten Cameron's statement either ....

If leaving the EU would really be so ruinous, why did Cameron threaten to do so only recently?
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... ently.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I had, vainly, hoped that tweet from Shipman last night was going to be right - that Cameron and Osborne were going to shut up for a bit realising how unhelpful and bloody infuriating their interventions are. I imagine there's a load of WASPI women who will find his latest pensions doom / threat beyond words.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:12 am

'Naked fury' over Jeremy Corbyn comedy sketch
Jeremy Corbyn has caused "naked fury" among some Labour colleagues by appearing on a TV comedy sketch dressed in a fur coat.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... edy-sketch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've now got a rather unfortunate mental image of the usual suspects - because I think we know who these Labour colleagues are likely to be - stomping around in full on GAAAAH nuddiness. Horrible.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:15 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
David Cameron says state pensions could be at risk if Brexit becomes reality

David Cameron has warned that pledges to raise state pensions every year and ringfence spending for the NHS may have to be ditched in a brutal new phase of austerity if the country votes for Brexit.(Guardian)
If this is true, why did David Cameron take such a gamble by calling a referendum? (Rhetorical question.)

It's hardly surprising that voters don't believe him, is it? Stupid, stupid man.

Edited to add link -

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ld-reality
Quite. And this from the man who said he had no doubt the UK could thrive outside the EU - a mere few months ago. Not just stupid - he's an arsehole for continually taking the electorate for fools.

And the timing of it. European football (already the French police are getting it in the neck) and the Quing's 90th birthday crap? Guaranteed to bring out the jingoist in swarms (pick your own pejorative term) of people.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:27 am

This comes under the "Well, I never!" and "shocked, shocked!" category of stories.

Are England’s academies becoming a cash cow for business?

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... w-business" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Staff at Colchester Academy in Essex received a letter in the post last June. Cleaning, catering and building maintenance at the struggling school were to be outsourced to a private company.

The academy had been taken over 11 weeks previously by Bright Tribe Multi-Academy Trust, a government-favoured academy chain established by venture capitalist Mike Dwan, which has ambitions to run more than 200 schools.

Bright Tribe had always intended to review auxiliary services at the school, staff were told. Now the takeover of the academy had been completed, a company with the right “resources and infrastructure” had been selected. The winner was a “national facilities management company” called Blue Support.

It was not necessarily a surprise that a profit-making business was being brought in. Outsourcing has become increasingly prevalent in the education sector and Bright Tribe had boasted of being a “new breed of academy trust … which brings together expertise from the education field and the professionalism and influences of commercial partners”.

But in a meeting between union officials and Blue Support executives shortly after the letter arrived, a diligent, if overworked, Unison official admitted to being puzzled. Sitting with her back to the window in one of the new-build school’s soulless rooms, Hazel Corby wondered why the lucky company had the same Stockport address as Bright Tribe’s headquarters. She asked how the company had been so swiftly selected after Bright Tribe’s takeover? Who else had a chance to bid for the contract?

Who needs privatization? Schools will be hollowed out with companies like this picking up the support services. Wouldn't be at all surprised if they were allowed to take over the teaching staff too eventually.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:30 am

And another rhetorical question -

Are England’s academies becoming a cash cow for business? (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... w-business

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:31 am

Hello playmates !

Lurking as usual and trying to fit life in amongst all the work and admin that go with it.

Opened today's smorgesboord to see the heading: Saturday and Sunday, 11th and 12 June respectivey, 2016
I immediately thought: PorFavor
And lo...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:32 am

@RogerOThornhill

Whoops, snap etc!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 9:45 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Hello playmates !

Lurking as usual and trying to fit life in amongst all the work and admin that go with it.

Opened today's smorgesboord to see the heading: Saturday and Sunday, 11th and 12th June respectively, 2016
I immediately thought: PorFavor
And lo...

Obviously PF's version didn't have the typos.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 10:25 am

When is the only possible time that David Cameron can appear a bit reasonable?

Answer: when you have just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr show. The man is repellent.

Now watching Peston on Sunday and John McDonell. Much less anxiety inducing. I think he is really, impressive.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

Last night's polls could have been worse, considering.

My long held belief that Brexit would need to be clearly ahead at this stage to have any chance on the day remains.

(that survey from ORB is the minimum they should expect - and the internals there were deeply suspect)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 14m14 minutes ago
Tory MPs say Robert Syms asked them to sign letter giving Cameron a stay of execution until October if he loses. But no one wanted to sign

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 15m15 minutes ago
Save Dave plan failed: Tory MPs refused to sign letter saying Cameron should stay until autumn if he loses referendum. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 16m16 minutes ago
Tories will keep a low profile on Mon/Tues so Labour figures can lead Remain campaign after panic sets in
I assume this panic move wasn't helped by this
Tom McTague Retweeted
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 44m44 minutes ago
YouGov EUReferendum poll Remain 42% Leave 43%

Good riddance if Dave gets the elbow, but it's setting Labour up to be the scapegoat if Brexit wins.
It feels like cynical manipulation to me.
I suppose it's because the majority of Tory MPs want exit, so it's a good move, but how irresponsible to be having leadership tussles right in the middle of the Ref campaign. Sort of proves they don't give a tuppeny damn about the country.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 11:32 am

Maeght wrote:When is the only possible time that David Cameron can appear a bit reasonable?

Answer: when you have just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr show. The man is repellent.

Now watching Peston on Sunday and John McDonell. Much less anxiety inducing. I think he is really, impressive.

but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 11:59 am

It says something that even Frum finds Trump too outrageous, mind.....

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:01 pm

Whichever way the vote goes, I hope that it's sufficient either way to be classed as valid. A 50.1% leave or remain would be the worst result possible - the other side would simply cry foul and ask for a retake.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Maeght wrote:When is the only possible time that David Cameron can appear a bit reasonable?

Answer: when you have just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr show. The man is repellent.

Now watching Peston on Sunday and John McDonell. Much less anxiety inducing. I think he is really, impressive.

but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US

Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:19 pm

Maeght wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Maeght wrote:When is the only possible time that David Cameron can appear a bit reasonable?

Answer: when you have just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr show. The man is repellent.

Now watching Peston on Sunday and John McDonell. Much less anxiety inducing. I think he is really, impressive.

but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US
Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

He's handled the whole thing so badly, though. I honestly can't work out what he thought he could gain from his strategy and tactics. He's not standing for re-election so what was going on in his mind? Because even as a career move to bolster his prospects outside mainstream politics it makes no sense to me. He can't have impressed anyone.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Maeght wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US
Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

He's handled the whole thing so badly, though. I honestly can't work out what he thought he could gain from his strategy and little minty sweets. He's not standing for re-election so what was going on in his mind? Because even as a career move to bolster his prospects outside mainstream politics it makes no sense to me. He can't have impressed anyone.

Fixed it for Chairman Humph.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:39 pm

Maeght wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Maeght wrote:When is the only possible time that David Cameron can appear a bit reasonable?

Answer: when you have just watched Nigel Farage on the Andrew Marr show. The man is repellent.

Now watching Peston on Sunday and John McDonell. Much less anxiety inducing. I think he is really, impressive.

but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US
Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

I was talking about Farage....even worse than Cameron

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:49 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Over at UK Polling Report they're having a discussion about whether a snap general election in October is on the cards if it's a Brexit win and a new Tory leader is installed. Some are querying whether the opposition would actually support a motion of no confidence - which is what it would take - if they don't particularly want, and probably can't afford, an election that quickly. Hmmmm.
It needs more than a motion of no confidence, because of the fixed term thing.

Labour should say "you have a mandatem govern".

Repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 with a majority vote in the House

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:53 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Whichever way the vote goes, I hope that it's sufficient either way to be classed as valid. A 50.1% leave or remain would be the worst result possible - the other side would simply cry foul and ask for a retake.

You and I both. Though a decisive in/out vote at odds with some polling data wouldn't stop some from insisting the vote was tampered with.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 12:57 pm

Would we want a Labour govt, with SNP presumably, soon after Brexit? Can't see how it could work, having to implement a policy hardly anyone in govt agrees with.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:10 pm

HindleA

Running in the Potters 'Arf 2016
#PottersArf
https://twitter.com/hashtag/pottersarf

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Potters- ... story.html

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

Apologies, everyone. Good-afternoon!

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Maeght wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
but he is good at lying though and has no worry in making things up and fantasising....a normal human being would have seem embarrassment at being such but with him it is fine....

Interesting to see Helena Kennedy having a go at Marr for letting some non-entity from the TPA witter on for ages whilst interrupting her...also why were there 3 paper reviewers today? One intellectual heavyweight in Kennedy and two extreme right-wingers...including that sinister Frum from the US
Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

He's handled the whole thing so badly, though. I honestly can't work out what he thought he could gain from his strategy and tactics. He's not standing for re-election so what was going on in his mind? Because even as a career move to bolster his prospects outside mainstream politics it makes no sense to me. He can't have impressed anyone.

The only explanation I can come up with is that Cameron is fantastically more stupid, self-centred and incapable of understanding probable outcomes than the most cynical and pessimistic of us imagined. I cannot conceive of a mindset that thinks that the disaster unfurling before us- which is going to last waaaaay beyond the result - is a desirable thing or even worth the risk, and so I can only put it down to massive stupidity. Cameron really had no idea of what he was doing and what he was unleashing. Already, what we took for normal, for civilised, has vanished. It's not coming back. It really isn't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:17 pm

Cameron thought he could wing it, as he has done for most of his life since university.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:21 pm

A little light relief...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:26 pm

Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011
Published Thursday, October 16, 2014

"The Act applies until it is repealed, so future Parliaments will operate on a five year cycle."

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... ry/SN06111" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my emphasis)
Praise Parliament from whom all legislation flows...

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:29 pm

mbc1955 wrote: Already, what we took for normal, for civilised, has vanished. It's not coming back. It really isn't.

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're not.

Six months ago with the NHS, housing, persecution of the disabled, in other words, the postwar consensus torn up, I thought the outlook for this country was as bad as it could possibly be. How naive of me.

Nationalism is a very ugly thing indeed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 12 Jun, 2016 1:50 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Maeght wrote: Of course he is a liar. There is only one thing I agree with him about - Remain.

And it does give me a peculiar brain ache, having to agree with him, when instinctively I want to take the opposite position to him, but can't.

However, everything is supposed to be relative and I still have to prefer him to Nigel Farage.

He's handled the whole thing so badly, though. I honestly can't work out what he thought he could gain from his strategy and tactics. He's not standing for re-election so what was going on in his mind? Because even as a career move to bolster his prospects outside mainstream politics it makes no sense to me. He can't have impressed anyone.
The only explanation I can come up with is that Cameron is fantastically more stupid, self-centred and incapable of understanding probable outcomes than the most cynical and pessimistic of us imagined. I cannot conceive of a mindset that thinks that the disaster unfurling before us- which is going to last waaaaay beyond the result - is a desirable thing or even worth the risk, and so I can only put it down to massive stupidity. Cameron really had no idea of what he was doing and what he was unleashing. Already, what we took for normal, for civilised, has vanished. It's not coming back. It really isn't.

My son works on rich people's gardens. Believe me, if you heard how they live and act, you wouldn't question Cameron's behaviour.
It's arrogance, having their every whim granted and being indulged from birth. It's disgusting and beyond our imaginations.

Edited to add: and they're often deeply unhappy.