Monday 13th June 2016

Post by **refitman** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 7:53 am

Morning.

I've been looking around the news websites. Where is a piece about Donald Trump calling for a wall to be built across the US to exclude people with guns, paid for by the NRA ?

An American woman interviewed on Radio 4, who wants the gun laws changed, has said it will be a feature of the POTUS election campaign. There is the potential for things to get quite nasty if the tea party & right wing militia types get out on the streets

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 8:47 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

I've been looking around the news websites. Where is a piece about Donald Trump calling for a wall to be built across the US to exclude people with guns, paid for by the NRA ?

An American woman interviewed on Radio 4, who wants the gun laws changed, has said it will be a feature of the POTUS election campaign. There is the potential for things to get quite nasty if the tea party & right wing militia types get out on the streets

Cheer up. At least we've got Oscar Pistorius back in the news again - with a Live Feed. How I've missed him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 8:48 am

Good morfternoon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:08 am

George Osborne ‏@George_Osborne 28m28 minutes ago
Treasury committee chair Andrew Tyrie has heard all evidence from both sides. Today he backs #VoteRemain

Nadine DorriesVerified account
‏@NadineDorriesMP
What did you promise Tyrie in return @George_Osborne?
Knighthood? Lords? Lasagne in kitchen at No11? Sniff of your dirty socks? #VoteLeave

Hard hats on everyone. It's another one of those infernal days. Roll on 23 June.

Had to turn off Radio 4 because the Humphrys / Brown ding dong was so irritating. Sadly - 'bigotgate' is bound to be brought up in the current atmosphere. Will outshadow almost every other thing he has to say.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:22 am

Morning

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/lo ... -1-7958956" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mum with brain condition that causes her to collapse ruled fit for work by benefits bosses

“I’m genuinely unwell and I’m not coping. I find it humiliating how I’m genuine and there’s so many people on ESA who is not.”

Double sigh.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:28 am

That's awful. One of the things I feel grateful for with my own recent health problems, is that I don't have to go through all that stress and uneccessary humiliation the DWP imposes.

It is hard enough coping with health problems, to have to deal with that must be unbearable.
May our politicians become more enlightened and develop some empathy and compassion.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:38 am

Morning all.

The faux outrage over Corbyn on the intro to The Last Leg is freaking ridiculous.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:38 am

Good-morning, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 9:50 am

I think it is far worse than that they think they are rescuing people and are being compassionate ,even people that "pass" their view of "deserving" are non-contributers living lives of little value-"sitting at home doing nothing" applies regardless,hence their shrugs at deaths in the process.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:08 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

The faux outrage over Corbyn on the intro to The Last Leg is freaking ridiculous.

it was on Friday night - who is still getting aerated about it now?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:10 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... al-knowhow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 12 million UK adults lack basic digital knowhow, MPs say

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:20 am

http://www.specialneedsjungle.com/why-u ... mechanger/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why an unfortunate series of tweets must be a SEND game-changer

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

The faux outrage over Corbyn on the intro to The Last Leg is freaking ridiculous.
it was on Friday night - who is still getting aerated about it now?

BTL at AS PLB. Full on UKIPFest today.

Enough acronyms?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

Dunno what PLB is, but get the drift.

Thanks for confirming why I don't go there any more.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:44 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Osborne ‏@George_Osborne 28m28 minutes ago
Treasury committee chair Andrew Tyrie has heard all evidence from both sides. Today he backs #VoteRemain

Nadine DorriesVerified account
‏@NadineDorriesMP
What did you promise Tyrie in return @George_Osborne?
Knighthood? Lords? Lasagne in kitchen at No11? Sniff of your dirty socks? #VoteLeave
Hard hats on everyone. It's another one of those infernal days. Roll on 23 June.

Had to turn off Radio 4 because the Humphrys / Brown ding dong was so irritating. Sadly - 'bigotgate' is bound to be brought up in the current atmosphere. Will outshadow almost every other thing he has to say.

I didn't hear it but just had a look on Twitter to see the reaction - thought this comment summed up why Humphrys should be put out to grass:

@sturdyAlex: What really annoys me is that clearly Humphrys thinks he's being brilliantly dogged, when really he's just writing Sun headlines. #r4today

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:49 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Dunno what PLB is, but get the drift.

Thanks for confirming why I don't go there any more.

Politics Live Blog?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:50 am

Re the council housing is subsidised discussion yesterday.

It is subsidised, there is an 'opportunity cost', because it's non-profit making and profit is all there is for these people.
If the houses were rented privately the income would be higher, the rent foregone is the subsidy.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that people spouting the myth understand what they're saying.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:52 am

Passage from the organisation's publication posted above echoing conclusions from others auditing this government.

Updated submission to the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
in advance of the public examination of the UK’s implementation of ICESCR

"In 2013, the Government launched ‘Disability Confident’ to promote the value of employing persons with disabilities
to employers. It is unclear what the precise aims of the programme are or what the programme itself has achieved."

http://media.wix.com/ugd/8a2436_a08291c ... a83ee8.pdf

Six years of Tory government
"unclear what the precise aims of the programme are or what the programme itself has achieved."
Wasting lives, resources and time

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 10:54 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.specialneedsjungle.com/why-u ... mechanger/

Why an unfortunate series of tweets must be a SEND game-changer

I read about this on Facebook. A legal firm called Baker Small, who represent several local authorities in opposing parents' wishes for preferred educational provision for children with special needs, relishing a recent 'victory' and then bitching to people who suggested it was a tad insensitive to the families concerned. The tweets were later deleted and an apology issued but by then it was too late.

Welcome to Tory Britain.

For those who are out of the loop, let me share a story with you, sadly this is not a work of fiction.

I went onto Twitter last night and saw this being shared by parents along with some comments about it being so inappropriate.

Being a Saturday night and being a mum of three children with SEN, I was sat at home wishing I could I have a drink but knowing that alcohol wasn’t possible due to children not sleeping. So I went looking for more details. Guess what I found?

This company were not just celebrating a win, they were laughing at the parents who had lost. Somehow, the child at the centre of this didn’t appear to be even considered. Of course, this tweet has now been deleted. BS – may I introduce you to Screenshots? Deleting tweets is never enough.

http://chaosinkent.com/parenting/sen/dear-baker-small/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:08 am

Somebody else who doesn't realise that deleting tweets won't erase them from the record 1984-style.

You would have thought they might learn, but given the prevalence of stupidity probably not.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:11 am

gilsey wrote:Re the council housing is subsidised discussion yesterday.

It is subsidised, there is an 'opportunity cost', because it's non-profit making and profit is all there is for these people.
If the houses were rented privately the income would be higher, the rent foregone is the subsidy.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that people spouting the myth understand what they're saying.

Thank you for further clarification, sincerely.

I once read a post elsewhere describing council housing as a type of housing 'product'. The commentator used market lingo in order to make a point. Another kind of housing 'product' is provided by the private sector. People may choose council housing for securely tenured, local authority-owned and affordable, long-term rental accommodation. Alternatively, people may choose to rent from private landlords.

What? they asked. Don't you like choices? People can't choose to rent simply, securely in affordable, long-term home rentals in local authorities? Why not? Mind your own private rental sector 'business' and let other people get on with living.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:26 am

citizenJA wrote: People may choose council housing for securely tenured, local authority-owned and affordable, long-term rental accommodation. Alternatively, people may choose to rent from private landlords.

Yes, that sums up why the tories want to destroy social housing. Given the choice in the mass market, who would rent privately?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:29 am

Of course, some local authorities aren't well run. Generally speaking, those elected peoples are voted out or incarcerated and housing associations or other non-profit organisations with democratically accountable, transparently organised structures providing affordable, securely-tenured, long-term rentals will be okay too, I think.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:47 am

gilsey wrote:
citizenJA wrote: People may choose council housing for securely tenured, local authority-owned and affordable, long-term rental accommodation. Alternatively, people may choose to rent from private landlords.
Yes, that sums up why the tories want to destroy social housing. Given the choice in the mass market, who would rent privately?

Precisely. It blows any legitimate cover off the whole scandalous inequity of using private landlords alone to house people who don't own their home. Nothing is banned, no private landlords can whine their feelings and human rights are jeopardised by insecurely housed, frightened tenants and advocates of affordable housing, non-profit rental accommodation. Those private landlords can do their holiday let thing or whatever. I'll be happy to help people who've not got an appropriate pension find another way to fund their retirement. Really. No one has to get hurt or exploited.

Without a safe, secure, affordable and clean home to live in people cannot grow up, get educated, work or prosper in any way. It's not a theory. It's not right- or left-wing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 11:48 am

Without a safe, secure, affordable and clean home to live in people cannot grow up, get educated, work or prosper in any way.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 12:24 pm

Live updates from the campaign trail as David Cameron takes a back seat and Gordon Brown promises a positive case for staying in the EU (Politics Live, Guardian)

Which, in the event of a "Remain" vote, will be presented as, "There you go, Labour. I've done all the hard, spadework. But I thought I'd allow you a look-in to add a few minor, finishing touches. Now push off."

Quite what we do about that is for the future - but I think something should be said at this point to ensure that we make very plain that there is some clear, red water between us and them. It's starting to get a bit "Scotland" for my liking. Still, means and ends, probably.

Edited to swap a "clear" for a "plain"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 12:50 pm

Owen Jones on last night's press review

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -sexuality" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 12:52 pm

Michael
‏@TheRightArticle

G4S shares plunge after Orlando killer is named as employee -

Security services firm says it carried detailed screenings on hiring Omar Mateen in 2007 and again in 2013 with no adverse findings

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-employee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Michael
‏@TheRightArticle

G4S shares plunge after Orlando killer is named as employee -

Security services firm says it carried detailed screenings on hiring Omar Mateen in 2007 and again in 2013 with no adverse findings

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-employee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Holy smokes

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:16 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Michael
‏@TheRightArticle

G4S shares plunge after Orlando killer is named as employee -

Security services firm says it carried detailed screenings on hiring Omar Mateen in 2007 and again in 2013 with no adverse findings

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-employee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been baking again, so haven't caught up with the latest news about Orlando, but didn't it say yesterday the killer had been looked at by the FBI twice? Surely there'd have been something in the records?
Or are there so few squeaky clean people in the States, they have to make big allowances?

Actually that last line reminded me. My daughter recently started work as dispatcher for her local sheriff's department.
She had to take a lie detector test as part of her application along with a regular criminal record check. The questions included had she ever done something illegal, but not been caught or found out...To which she was able to say no.
She scored 95%. They had to double check the machine was working properly. Said they'd never seen a score that high.

And where once upon a time if you had any sort of criminal record, the US armed services wouldn't accept you, they do now.

It's a sorry state of affairs.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Michael
‏@TheRightArticle

G4S shares plunge after Orlando killer is named as employee -

Security services firm says it carried detailed screenings on hiring Omar Mateen in 2007 and again in 2013 with no adverse findings

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-employee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Holy smokes

'G4S, the world’s biggest security firm, said it had employed Mateen since September 2007 and that he was off duty when he carried out the deadliest mass shooting in US history on Sunday morning.'

I'd like to think he was off duty.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:19 pm

I today received a communication from the Labour Party to use my postal vote
for "Remain". Bit late, that, I thought. I sent off my postal vote a while ago. Unless Labour has some knowledge about the number of postal votes already submitted - or not yet submitted?

Edited to add -

A card\leaflet thingy via post, personally addressed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:19 pm

Fucking BBC. Talking about 'is Labour worried about its core voters wanting to 'Leave'. Mr Ohso has had to turn over.
I already have a headache and usuing foul language doesn't help

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:32 pm

5m ago 13:24

Lord Butler, the former cabinet secretary, has given an interview to PoliticsHome about the EU referendum. He said that he thought it was possible that the referendum could lead to Labour and the Tories both splitting into pro and anti-EU parties, and that this might be a good thing.(Poltics Live, Guardian)

I think that's called wishful thinking (to put it kindly).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:34 pm

There is an argument that it is better for both the Tory and Labour parties to split, and it might happen in another electoral system - but not with that as the (primary) faultline.

(certainly not in Labour's case, anyway)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

6m ago 13:33

Anthony Barnett has written about Gordon Brown’s proposals for EU reform in the latest chapter of Blimey, it could be Brexit!, the book on the EU referendum that he is writing in instalments and publishing at Open Democracy. Here’s an extract. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I urge you to nip over and read the extract. It's a bit of a facer - and goes to underline the concerns I have and which I, rather facetiously, mentioned earlier.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 1:56 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ols-chains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Parental ‘choice’ in education has created the worst of all worlds
Fiona Millar

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Fucking BBC. Talking about 'is Labour worried about its core voters wanting to 'Leave'. Mr Ohso has had to turn over.
I already have a headache and usuing foul language doesn't help

Not only that, Norman Smith held the Leave.EU leaflet referring to Orlando up to the camera and read it out to us, just in case our eyesight wasn't up to it.
F*ing BBC indeed.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:07 pm

gilsey wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Fucking BBC. Talking about 'is Labour worried about its core voters wanting to 'Leave'. Mr Ohso has had to turn over.
I already have a headache and usuing foul language doesn't help
Not only that, Norman Smith held the Leave.EU leaflet referring to Orlando up to the camera and read it out to us, just in case our eyesight wasn't up to it.
F*ing BBC indeed.

Yes - at first I thought it was a Donald Trump Production (I wasn't paying attention). Dreadful. I understand that it has now been withdrawn. The jury is instructed to disregard, etc etc.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:14 pm

They know what they are doing,create a stir,"withdraw"=more publicity and reinforcement of "the truth we are stopped from saying",for those that way inclined/persuadable.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:19 pm

And, as usual, Nigel Farage will deny all knowledge.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:20 pm

They are claiming it was a junior member of staff overstepping the mark.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:23 pm

HindleA wrote:They are claiming it was a junior member of staff overstepping the mark.

How predictable.

Any road up, that doesn't make it ok. (I know you're not suggesting that it does.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:26 pm

HindleA wrote:They know what they are doing,create a stir,"withdraw"=more publicity and reinforcement of "the truth we are stopped from saying",for those that way inclined/persuadable.

It also gives the other "Out" grouping a golden opportunity to come over all warm, rational and humane, of course.

Edited to add -

Right on cue - Iain Smith coming over all warm, rational and humane (or so he hopes).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:35 pm

Makes me wonder if Leave.EU is the SA equivalent of the "Outers". Probably could have put that more eloquently - but it's short-hand for someone (me) low on energy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Live updates from the campaign trail as David Cameron takes a back seat and Gordon Brown promises a positive case for staying in the EU (Politics Live, Guardian)
Which, in the event of a "Remain" vote, will be presented as, "There you go, Labour. I've done all the hard, spadework. But I thought I'd allow you a look-in to add a few minor, finishing touches. Now push off."

Quite what we do about that is for the future - but I think something should be said at this point to ensure that we make very plain that there is some clear, red water between us and them. It's starting to get a bit "Scotland" for my liking. Still, means and ends, probably.

Edited to swap a "clear" for a "plain"

I think he's giving Labour a look-in in the final days to ensure they are an easier scapegoat should it not go the way he wants - or he doesn't get a really positive majority for Remain. Definitely time to be careful.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 3:37 pm

I sincerely hope this is satire,I fear not:-

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/blogs ... agesize=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Treating a chronic sense of self-entitlement

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

Helen Pidd ‏@helenpidd 21h21 hours ago

Andy Burnham's bid to be Greater Manchester mayor not going terribly well. Came last in hustings at Gorton today. Same story @ Co-op branch.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 13 Jun, 2016 3:44 pm

HindleA wrote:I sincerely hope this is satire,I fear not:-

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/blogs ... agesize=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Treating a chronic sense of self-entitlement

Sickie? Meds? That sounds suspiciously as if it's been lifted from an article in Australia.

True or not, I'm glad he's not my doctor and mine are nothing to write home about.