Tuesday 14th June 2016

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I may as well make this my day for posting it *real*. Very upsetting experience for our neighbour yesterday. She's in her 80s and has the early stages of dementia - and lives on her own. Mr Riots met her son who lives in Gloucestershire on the track and heard the following.

She had a fall in the early evening yesterday and - thinking she'd broken her arm - had the presence of mind to press her panic button (which she wanted to cancel but her son chose not to). However the team that was sent out couldn't find where she lived and spent over 2 hours driving around before they turned up. No one rang her or either of her sons (who are on the panic response team's info to contact). The team decided she needed to go to A & E - so then they rang her son who lives close by and asked him to take her. He took her to Withybush hospital (I hr) where the wait time was initially 5 hours and no triage available - then became 9 hours. He took her back home as it would have been a worse wait there than at home. In the morning he took her into Cardigan hospital - 10 minutes - where they first refused to see her without a GP referral and then - when he explained the situation so far - apologised and said they couldn't do anything anyway as their single X ray machine was broken. He then drove her to Glangwili hospital in Carmarthen (1hr) where they saw, X rayed and treated her. 16 hours later. It is broken - and she is very distressed.

Both of us find that tale very unsettling. We'll do the immediate practical thing that could make a bit of difference as soon as we can - put clear signage up wherever we can to help strangers find their way. But the rest of it .....
So sorry to hear that. It's the last thing she needed to happen. It'll have a negative effect on her dementia. Living in Suburbia can be stressful, but we are spoiled for some facilities.

I thought Sat Nav was part and parcel of things like ambulances?

Wasn't an ambulance - it was a team sent by the people on the other end of the panic button system. Sat nav doesn't do it around here anyway Ohso. What the hell does it say about a panic team if they can't do the most blindingly obvious thing and ring if not the person themselves her sons - who F*ing know where she lives and can describe how to get there? I'd go further than that and say they should have made sure they had a very clear map and set of directions available at the time of taking her on as a client and installing the panic system. Sorry but this seems to be a fail on far too many levels.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:23 pm

Quick question. Given the tightness of the polls, when are we expecting an announcement as to the result of the referendum?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:23 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I may as well make this my day for posting it *real*. Very upsetting experience for our neighbour yesterday. She's in her 80s and has the early stages of dementia - and lives on her own. Mr Riots met her son who lives in Gloucestershire on the track and heard the following.

She had a fall in the early evening yesterday and - thinking she'd broken her arm - had the presence of mind to press her panic button (which she wanted to cancel but her son chose not to). However the team that was sent out couldn't find where she lived and spent over 2 hours driving around before they turned up. No one rang her or either of her sons (who are on the panic response team's info to contact). The team decided she needed to go to A & E - so then they rang her son who lives close by and asked him to take her. He took her to Withybush hospital (I hr) where the wait time was initially 5 hours and no triage available - then became 9 hours. He took her back home as it would have been a worse wait there than at home. In the morning he took her into Cardigan hospital - 10 minutes - where they first refused to see her without a GP referral and then - when he explained the situation so far - apologised and said they couldn't do anything anyway as their single X ray machine was broken. He then drove her to Glangwili hospital in Carmarthen (1hr) where they saw, X rayed and treated her. 16 hours later. It is broken - and she is very distressed.

Both of us find that tale very unsettling. We'll do the immediate practical thing that could make a bit of difference as soon as we can - put clear signage up wherever we can to help strangers find their way. But the rest of it .....
So sorry to hear that. It's the last thing she needed to happen. It'll have a negative effect on her dementia. Living in Suburbia can be stressful, but we are spoiled for some facilities.

I thought Sat Nav was part and parcel of things like ambulances?

I think you have to keep Sat Nav updated. I read something a week or so ago about an ambulance taking hours to get to the Olympic Stadium in London because the crew didn't know where it was (!) and the Sat Nav was outdated. The delay contributed to a fatality.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:25 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Quick question. Given the tightness of the polls, when are we expecting an announcement as to the result of the referendum?

Good question. I think Radio 4 are doing an all nighter. I've presumed it'll be like a general election.
The votes should be quicker to count as only three piles Remain, Leave and spoilt papers ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:29 pm

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Quick question. Given the tightness of the polls, when are we expecting an announcement as to the result of the referendum?

Good question. I think Radio 4 are doing an all nighter. I've presumed it'll be like a general election.
The votes should be quicker to count as only three piles Remain, Leave and spoilt papers ?

We should have a few more votes to count than at the election though - hopefully - if Cam's last minute panic call for people to register has paid off. Just hope they stay on the register for the next general election.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:36 pm

What would happen if the eu vote resulted in a dead heat ? Would Lillibet give the casting vote in a Simon Cowell 'Buck House has got talent' stylee type thing ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:38 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:What would happen if the eu vote resulted in a dead heat ? Would Lillibet give the casting vote in a Simon Cowell 'Buck House has got talent' stylee type thing ?

Best of 3 coin tosses?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:38 pm

Penalty shoot out ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

Frank Field says it is time to leave "Brexit would help us control immigration. Like me, many Labour voters want out" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ters-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

Scissors. Paper. Stone.

Best of three.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

yahyah wrote:Penalty shoot out ?

Who'd be the goalkeeper? At the very least, one of the requirements would be to have a deathwish.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

I'd nominate David Cameron. He got us into this whole mess.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:48 pm

Replay-aargh

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:53 pm

At least I was on the winning side last night.
Italy beat Belgium who are supposedly the second best team in the world.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 2:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I may as well make this my day for posting it *real*. Very upsetting experience for our neighbour yesterday. She's in her 80s and has the early stages of dementia - and lives on her own. Mr Riots met her son who lives in Gloucestershire on the track and heard the following.

She had a fall in the early evening yesterday and - thinking she'd broken her arm - had the presence of mind to press her panic button (which she wanted to cancel but her son chose not to). However the team that was sent out couldn't find where she lived and spent over 2 hours driving around before they turned up. No one rang her or either of her sons (who are on the panic response team's info to contact). The team decided she needed to go to A & E - so then they rang her son who lives close by and asked him to take her. He took her to Withybush hospital (I hr) where the wait time was initially 5 hours and no triage available - then became 9 hours. He took her back home as it would have been a worse wait there than at home. In the morning he took her into Cardigan hospital - 10 minutes - where they first refused to see her without a GP referral and then - when he explained the situation so far - apologised and said they couldn't do anything anyway as their single X ray machine was broken. He then drove her to Glangwili hospital in Carmarthen (1hr) where they saw, X rayed and treated her. 16 hours later. It is broken - and she is very distressed.

Both of us find that tale very unsettling. We'll do the immediate practical thing that could make a bit of difference as soon as we can - put clear signage up wherever we can to help strangers find their way. But the rest of it .....
So sorry to hear that. It's the last thing she needed to happen. It'll have a negative effect on her dementia. Living in Suburbia can be stressful, but we are spoiled for some facilities.

I thought Sat Nav was part and parcel of things like ambulances?
Wasn't an ambulance - it was a team sent by the people on the other end of the panic button system. Sat nav doesn't do it around here anyway Ohso. What the hell does it say about a panic team if they can't do the most blindingly obvious thing and ring if not the person themselves her sons - who F*ing know where she lives and can describe how to get there? I'd go further than that and say they should have made sure they had a very clear map and set of directions available at the time of taking her on as a client and installing the panic system. Sorry but this seems to be a fail on far too many levels.

Sorry. I should have remembered that's how the panic button works with some companies. Uncle had one, but they used to ring his daughter and then ring an ambulance.

That company sounds a bit hit and miss. And if they're like the one uncle used, they charge enough for the service.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:00 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:What would happen if the eu vote resulted in a dead heat ? Would Lillibet give the casting vote in a Simon Cowell 'Buck House has got talent' stylee type thing ?
Best of 3 coin tosses?

Could work. There's no shortage of tossers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:01 pm

Epic failure of the "panic team" it was suggested that we had a similar arrangement to "free me up" more;we couldn't envisage a scenario that didn't involve me coming home/back and in reality after a couple of hours I would be mentality there anyway envisioning a catastrophe;that and a suspicion that it may have been used to remove existing support made us politely reject,of course we were extremely lucky we had a choice and support.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:02 pm

yahyah wrote:At least I was on the winning side last night.
Italy beat Belgium who are supposedly the second best team in the world.

I like to watch International football, but know little about how it all works...

Mr Ohso reckons the Belgian team being 2nd best, is all hype. They've never won a World or European title.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:What would happen if the eu vote resulted in a dead heat ? Would Lillibet give the casting vote in a Simon Cowell 'Buck House has got talent' stylee type thing ?
Best of 3 coin tosses?
Could work. There's no shortage of tossers.

Very sharp

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:05 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Frank Field says it is time to leave "Brexit would help us control immigration. Like me, many Labour voters want out" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ters-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The snag is Frank Field's often an idiot.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:07 pm

yahyah -the worst Italian team for 50 years according to some-mm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:12 pm

You did ask

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ranking Procedures

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ ... e/men.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:15 pm

Thanks for the links.

I must say they didn't have the sort of grace and attack that I remember from a great Italian team. I used to love Fabio Cannavaro. But apparently their team work was excellent, which counts for a lot, as in most things.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:16 pm

https://ig.ft.com/sites/how-should-i-vo ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I did this EU should I vote questionnaire.

I'm only 67% remain.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:20 pm

HindleA wrote:You did ask

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ranking Procedures

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ ... e/men.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:21 pm

I'm 94%. Thought the 'who would you prefer as PM?', the only choices being Boris, Cameron or May,
was a swizz.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:25 pm

So I made the right choice. That's a relief. If the rest of Britain hate me, so be it.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Frank Field says it is time to leave "Brexit would help us control immigration. Like me, many Labour voters want out" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ters-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The snag is Frank Field's often an idiot.

How Sweet To Be An Idiot [youtube]2cNsmt2YZXA[/youtube]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:30 pm

My grandparents immigrated from Wales and England to the US at different times and I don't have documentation to prove that. The UK is my only home and I've lived in this country exclusively for years. I've passed the life in the UK test in five minutes after memorising the costly collection of books available for purchase on the UK Immigration website. We've paid expensive fees, completed lengthy, dauntingly labyrinthine sets of applications allowing me to immigrate to the UK to join family. English is my first language. I sincerely thank the UK government for the privilege to demonstrate my commitment to UK people, land and law. The UK government didn't have to allow me this. I want to live here until I die - a UK citizen.

Different nations have different ways, social norms vary between nations, vary between groups within nations and I often marvel in a good way how interesting this is. Thankfully, my enthusiasm is shared, appreciated, maybe sometimes just patiently tolerated (thank you for your continued patience with me) by my people here in the UK. I've travelled all over since I was a child. Differences between people all over the world exist - skin colour, language, attire, spiritual beliefs and customs (not an inclusive list). The different dialects within the English language alone are many. I've grown up hearing them and my accent is decidedly ambiguous sometimes. I can't help it.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, an 'American'. I usually don't mind being mistaken for one. I recall only one time I was offended by being called an 'American' and the person didn't say it to my face. It was meant pejoratively - I was told I couldn't call the UK my home, couldn't call the UK my country, couldn't call the people I share living in the UK with, my people. Because I was an 'American'. I'm not an 'American'. My allegiance is to my country, home, family and friends in the UK. It's possible to be an 'American' as well as being a UK citizen, I know this, others may have no difficulty with this. I don't categorically think it's wrong for everyone. I find it too difficult so, I've chosen my allegiance. Regardless of my allegiance, I won't cause harm to anyone or any nation.

The United States is a magnificent country but then I think all nations are magnificent, in their own way. Nationalism for administrative purposes, for organising a collection of people and resources together to make a society, is okay enough. We all rely upon the one atmosphere, the one earth to sustain us and solutions to problems life on this planet face now requires nations coming together to protect the lot - life, water, air and land.

It could very well shake the snot out of the nose of the UK's elite (to vote for the UK to leave the EU) to demand they go upstairs and clean their room and don't come back down until they've decided to behave responsibly, share fairly and recognise exactly why they're being severely reprimanded by sincerely asking the pardon of those they've disgracefully harmed and offended.

The unknowns of what will happen if the UK votes to leave the EU now are too many, too potentially dangerous for regular people, in my opinion. I don't know for sure but remaining in the EU is likely best now.

I hold Dave Cameron and his Tory government responsible for carelessly and dangerously offering an EU referendum now. The people are without clear, accurate information, without fully understanding the consequences of our vote either way. I don't think most of the people of the UK wanted an EU referendum now. We got it anyway and we all can only do our best. This is a nightmare.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

Being an idiot once qualified the person to be eligible for admission to the workhouse. This is a sample of the 'inmates' register from the 1881 census of Mansfield Union Workhouse, along with the 'handicap' of the inmate

: 01414.jpg (84.19 KiB) Viewed 7292 times

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Mansfield/ ... ml#Inmates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:43 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal 14m14 minutes ago
As I say, bring back Cameron. I'd rather the PM focus on convincing Tory voters than Labour sending out mixed msgs " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
He's not wrong. Labour have fewer supporters and a much higher percentage already supporting remain. How can there possibly be more mileage in preaching to them rather than the more evenly split and far more numerous Tory voters? Especially when (older) Tory voters are more likely to turn out. Cameron has courted votes by being negative about the EU and is now reaping what he has sown. If he can't turn around the negativity within his own party that he previously cultivated, Tory voters will take us out of the EU and it will mostly because he has spent the last 6 years telling them how wrong the EU is. Stupid, stupid Cameron.

Exactly so. A bad leader. People deserve better leadership.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:49 pm

Asked what he thought would happen after next week’s vote Mr Farage said: “I’ve absolutely no idea.
“What I do know is that if we vote for Brexit then the Ukip delegation in the European Parliament has a very important job over the next 18 months or two years because we will need to be the canary in the mine shaft"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eu ... yn-8185625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01415.jpg (35.45 KiB) Viewed 7268 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 3:52 pm

: ScreenShot01416.jpg (141.61 KiB) Viewed 7264 times

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:03 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
HindleA wrote:

The Labour supporters backing Brexit in Stoke-on-Trent heartland – video
Stoke-on-Trent has a history of providing some support for the racist far-right. It was about the only part of the country where Oswald Mosely could still draw an enthusiastic crowd in the 1950s. More recently, of course, the BNP did well in the 1990s and 2000s.

My parents came from the city and I grew up in the Staffs Moorlands. I've thought for a long time that Stoke-on-Trent had many of the problems that go with being a city, often the result of being a low pay economy reliant on only two very paternalistic industries, but never seemed to have picked up on many of the advantages city status can bring. Perhaps because folk memories of the pre-incorporation "six towns" pointed back to a mythical "happier time" before the First World War.

Stoke was one of the last places child labour was outlawed because of the Potteries - that industry relied upon particularly cheap
labour extracted from children and female workers. People live in poverty when they're not given fair pay from in the work they
do. I detest and fear anyone with power using it to subjugate others. God damn them to hell. Not treating people right, stealing
their labour, keeping them inadequately housed.

Stoke remains a place too many people are materially deprived. It doesn't have to be this way.

Geographically, Stoke occupies on of the finest places in the UK. It's elevated, the land fertile and generally protected from the
severest weather. A place continually inhabited for millennia due to tactical advantages and good land to grow food.

Interesting place, Stoke. I posted my day in Hanley on the latest weekend politics blog.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:13 pm

Somebody needs to flag up the trade war that Brexiters are happily leading us into.

Then again lots of people fall for "they want to sell us cars"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:21 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody needs to flag up the trade war that Brexiters are happily leading us into.

Then again lots of people fall for "they want to sell us cars"

It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:We got a phone call from someone fundraising on behalf of Labour's remain campaign this morning.
I'm donating when I've had my hot drink, am cautious about giving out card details to unsolicited callers even if they are from Labour.

When I discussed with my husband how much we'd give he suggested halving the amount.
His rationale is that it looks as if we've lost the vote so it is a waste of money to pour more cash into the campaign. I take the opposite view.

After reading Anatoly's post above I realise we are on a hiding to nothing. Not only will we be cash light from donating we may also be blamed for Labour's decline if the country goes Kipper/Brexit mad if Leave loses.

Difficult, and very trying times.
I've had quite a few e-mails asking for donations. Which leads me to this ramble -

During the General Election campaign, they only needed to ask and I'd provide. For someone on my income, overall I donated quite a bit (by my standards). I so much wanted Ed Miliband to win. Now (setting aside the fact that this is for a referendum and not a general election) it all flows past me and the e-mails get binned. Which brings me to my point. Jeremy Corbyn says a lot I agree with and, although I didn't vote for him as leader, I'm content to support him in his role. But there's something slightly distant about Jeremy Corbyn which stops me getting human about him. Does that make sense?

Maybe if I saw him in the flesh? I don't know. But if that's how it works with him, then he's probably right to do this grand tour thing rather than do much studio interview stuff.

It makes all kinds of sense. He seems rather elusive, stoical, he won't oblige public figures at all and while there's nothing wrong with any of this, it adds up to a kind lack of warmth, maybe. He's been married to three different people. It's not bad or wrong. I know friends who've been married to different people during different times in their lives. His integrity I don't question. He's been doing his job for decades and he keeps at it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:45 pm

Ed? If my daughter had brought him home, I'd have been dead pleased...

We shouldn't be influenced by looks but I confess I'm guilty of it.

Jeremy being older, doesn't have that sort of appeal. We just have to admire his mind.

He's working all Gods hours, and I imagine he is his job. Hard for a marriage.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:50 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody needs to flag up the trade war that Brexiters are happily leading us into.

Then again lots of people fall for "they want to sell us cars"
It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....

We'll buy our own cars!

The ones with EU parts in them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

I obviously have a dictatorial streak. If it were up to me the 65% who haven't been arsed to vote in EU MEP elections would not be allowed to vote on the 23rd.
All that whining about it not being democratic and they haven't bothered to take part in democracy.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody needs to flag up the trade war that Brexiters are happily leading us into.

Then again lots of people fall for "they want to sell us cars"
It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....
We'll by our own cars!

The ones with EU parts in them.

We'll build our own parts! Use British steel. Oh, err....

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:54 pm

Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

I'm sure I commented more than twice.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 4:56 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....
We'll by our own cars!

The ones with EU parts in them.
We'll build our own parts! Use British steel. Oh, err....

And we'll stick tariffs on Chinese steel.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:01 pm

Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

Mine aren't. I just keep responding to the idiots.

The worst of it is the arrogance, the assumption that they have won.
It isn't over until the vote is cast. The Nats thought they were likely heading for independence at the end, they lost by over 10 points.

But to be honest I am not sure. People like backing the winner, and if people are undecided they may want to be one of the ones partying and enjoying a pint with Farage on the 24th.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:01 pm

Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

If anyone of flythenest are posting, those are good.
hired or volunteer junk creation last night repeated over and over on the EU threads

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:05 pm

yahyah wrote:
Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

Mine aren't. I just keep responding to the idiots.

The worst of it is the arrogance, the assumption that they have won.
It isn't over until the vote is cast. The Nats thought they were likely heading for independence at the end, they lost by over 10 points.

But to be honest I am not sure. People like backing the winner, and if people are undecided they may want to be one of the ones partying and enjoying a pint with Farage on the 24th.

I don't know. The GE showed how voting based on preconceptions of the outcome can (funnily enough) change the outcome.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Ed? If my daughter had brought him home, I'd have been dead pleased...

We shouldn't be influenced by looks but I confess I'm guilty of it.

Jeremy being older, doesn't have that sort of appeal. We just have to admire his mind.

He's working all Gods hours, and I imagine he is his job. Hard for a marriage.

This is what I was trying to say, Ohso.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:07 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
yahyah wrote:
Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

Mine aren't. I just keep responding to the idiots.

The worst of it is the arrogance, the assumption that they have won.
It isn't over until the vote is cast. The Nats thought they were likely heading for independence at the end, they lost by over 10 points.

But to be honest I am not sure. People like backing the winner, and if people are undecided they may want to be one of the ones partying and enjoying a pint with Farage on the 24th.
I don't know. The GE showed how voting based on preconceptions of the outcome can (funnily enough) change the outcome.

How much of that was because of all the (undeclared ?) dosh and letters the Tories put about ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 14 Jun, 2016 5:09 pm

The sound on my computer is erratic and not working at the moment, so I can't say for sure how good this is. Knowing it's Michael Moore though, it'll be controversial.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;