Friday 17th June 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:11 am

citizenJA wrote:Thinking about the MPs with young children
Ed Miliband his love for his wife and boys
I hope he's okay, I've not heard
His love for his family is dearest to him

Ed was very eloquent about Jo Cox yesterday evening.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:11 am

NonOxCol wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:This is actually real.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or not.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, it was so easy to believe and she's too thick to get why that might be.

"God, people are disgusting"

- Mensch

Not all of them, Mensch, no.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:13 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Thinking about the MPs with young children
Ed Miliband his love for his wife and boys
I hope he's okay, I've not heard
His love for his family is dearest to him
Ed was very eloquent about Jo Cox yesterday evening.

He was. As was Stephen Kinnock.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:14 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Britain is in the midst of a working-class revolt
John Harris
Across the nation this past week I’ve heard the same refrain: ‘No one listens to us, no one cares.’ Now those ignored for so long are demanding a voice
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A lot of this chimes with the kinds of conversations and views I hear on doorsteps.

That may be so (indeed, I concur) but one of the things that bothers me about Harris is his seeming assumption that the "working class" (which really means, as in this instance, the *white* working class) is some homogenous mass with a hive mind. Its not.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:15 am

Can't disagree with any of this.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:17 am

NonOxCol wrote:Can't disagree with any of this.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nor this:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:22 am

NonOxCol wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:This is actually real.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or not.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, it was so easy to believe and she's too thick to get why that might be.

But as James Dolman pointed out, she did RT a tweet from an account called "Kill Migrants".

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

NonOxCol wrote:Can't disagree with any of this.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...although I would add the Express to the Mail & Sun.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:28 am

NonOxCol wrote: Nor this:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, that is good.

We just have to hope that yesterday *was* some sort of watershed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:31 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:The link between Nigel Farage and Mair

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/06/ ... ed-killer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty damning. I put links on our Labour party Face book page, but I'm hesitant to post this because we have a few members that say we should be non-confrontational, and non-offensive.

It's come to a pretty pass when despite a lovely young woman losing her life over a 'cause', we have to pussy foot around getting to the bottom of why.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:36 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
NonOxCol wrote: Nor this:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now, that is good.

We just have to hope that yesterday *was* some sort of watershed.

Chris Brosnahan
‏@ChrisBrosnahan
I've just been accused of trying to make political gain out of Jo Cox's death. As opposed to the reality, something I don't say often.
RETWEETS

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
The reality is that I am fucking terrified of what is happening in this country.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
When Farage started becoming part of the media's story of this country, I thought 'this guy is scary'. I thought ineffective. But scary.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
When Boris Johnson started being taken seriously as a politician, I thought 'this guy is scary'. Again, ineffective. But scary.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
But the BNP terrified me. Nick Griffin terrified me, because he sounded reasonable. Not the things he said. But the way he said them.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
In exactly the same way as Johnson and Farage, I was scared of good talkers who some people liked, who people wrote off as 'funny'.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
Shit, I wrote them off as funny at times. But at the same time, I was aware that the more seriously they were taken, the scarier they were.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
They started being featured more and more. Being given more and more platforms. Being allowed to say more and more.

Chris Brosnahan ‏@ChrisBrosnahan 13h13 hours ago Tottenham, London
It was in the name of 'balance', but it was also in the name of ratings. You didn't see the far left given the same platforms as often.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:41 am

citizenJA wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:This is actually real.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or not.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, it was so easy to believe and she's too thick to get why that might be.
"God, people are disgusting"

- Mensch
Not all of them, Mensch, no.

I hope she was including herself in that sweeping statement.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:41 am

While I'm not a great fan of Henry McLeish, he seems to hit the nail on the head here:

The populist leaders of Ukip and the Conservative right are cheap patriots: delusional, dangerous and divisive. Brexit is doing enormous damage to Britain by hinting at a future that lacks moral purpose, is based on sentiment, emotion and nostalgia and a misreading of where Britain’s real interests lie. In doing so they are exploiting Atlanticism, ambivalence and a crisis of national identity.

Inspired by a fear and contempt of foreigners, asylum seekers and migrants, fuelled by a growing English nationalism and rooted in a civil war within the Tory party, the EU referendum debate has become ugly and unreal and in a sense, despairing and demeaning and certainly one of the darkest periods in British politics.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1456 ... ty_crisis/

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:42 am

NonOxCol wrote:This is actually real.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Link isn't working....

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:44 am

DM in "Oh, did we get it wrong. never mind eh?"

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/d ... from-iraq/

Yesterday the Daily Mail splashed with a story on migrants hiding in the back of a truck.

Today, it admitted the story wasn’t entirely true.

The splash claimed: “We’re from Europe – let us in”

But they were not from Europe, they were from Iraq.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:55 am

Pussy footing is the correct term.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 11:58 am

Excellent.

The problems with referendums in general, and the Brexit one in particular

http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/the-probl ... articular/

When you have a parliamentary system, you either take the parliamentary system seriously or you don’t.

And having referendums means you are not taking a parliamentary system seriously.

And if the supposed reason for the referendum is to protect parliamentary democracy, this does not even make any sense. You cannot sensibly protect parliamentary democracy by the extra-parliamentary means of a referendum. It is an absurdity, if you think about it.

Well quite.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:20 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:DM in "Oh, did we get it wrong. never mind eh?"

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/d ... from-iraq/

Yesterday the Daily Mail splashed with a story on migrants hiding in the back of a truck.

Today, it admitted the story wasn’t entirely true.

The splash claimed: “We’re from Europe – let us in”

But they were not from Europe, they were from Iraq.

Even if we come completely out of Europe and close our borders, there will still be refugees trying to get here.
I recently heard a radio interview with a HGV driver who has been doing the France to England run for over twenty years. He said right from the start refugees were trying to get into England.

Coming out of the EU isn't going to suddenly make it go away...In fact there'll be less chance to help these people.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:33 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Even if we come completely out of Europe and close our borders, there will still be refugees trying to get here.

As far as refugees are concerned, our borders are already closed. You need an EU passport to get through. While mainland Europe have accepted refugees, I'm unaware of any mass issuing of passports to them. Indeed, those with refugee status are expected to return to their own countries once it is safe to do so (unless they apply for permanent leave to remain).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Tooting was a nice result for Labour, but equally a truly pathetic one for UKIP.

I know it isn't and never will be a good area for them, but it still maybe puts some of the more hyperbolic claims re their electoral "threat" into perspective.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:58 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:While I'm not a great fan of Henry McLeish, he seems to hit the nail on the head here:

The populist leaders of Ukip and the Conservative right are cheap patriots: delusional, dangerous and divisive. Brexit is doing enormous damage to Britain by hinting at a future that lacks moral purpose, is based on sentiment, emotion and nostalgia and a misreading of where Britain’s real interests lie. In doing so they are exploiting Atlanticism, ambivalence and a crisis of national identity.

Inspired by a fear and contempt of foreigners, asylum seekers and migrants, fuelled by a growing English nationalism and rooted in a civil war within the Tory party, the EU referendum debate has become ugly and unreal and in a sense, despairing and demeaning and certainly one of the darkest periods in British politics.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1456 ... ty_crisis/

Yes, exactly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:02 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I posted the blog version of Chris Broshahan's series of tweets on FB, and a friend made this reply. I hope she won't mind me reposting it

This morning, I watched a bunch of kids - 4-7 year olds, girls, boys, white, Asian, black, muslim, you know, a normal playground mix - running around together. They were sort of playing football, but really all they were doing was running after a ball and laughing. No thought was given as to who the other kids were, or where they came from, or whether they looked different, or had different accents - lust lots of laughing and screaming and generally being kids. It's these kids who are going to reap this poison. Lots older, rich, white men stirring up hatred for their own political gain - they're doing for their own short-term gain AND PEOPLE ARE BUYING IT, and in the mean time, our children's future is looking bleaker and bleaker, and it quite frankly scares the crap out of me. Hate isn't something you're born with. It's something you're taught. And what is going on right now is a fucking masterclass.

I saw the same thing last weekend in Hanley - people from all parts of the world in the market square, everyone together, no trouble,
lots of laughter. It reminded me of being in a big international city, San Francisco. Except I heard more languages being spoken in
Hanely than I've ever heard in one place in my life.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

Tories will not contest the by election. Good. Well done them.

Let's pray Farage finds some sense and suggests the same. Won't hold my breath.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:08 pm

Torygraph devoted large part of its obit to pointing out her differences with Corbyn.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:11 pm

Chris Brosnahan, blog version of the tweets
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:11 pm

yahyah wrote:Tories will not contest the by election. Good. Well done them.

Sorry to disagree (and genuinely respectfully) but I do.

Life should go on - this stuff didn't happen after Ian Gow or Anthony Berry were murdered and quite rightly so.

The best way to stand up to the sort of people who do this is not to change things for them.

(now where's that tinhat smiley when you need it)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:12 pm

Had a chat with my Green/anarchist friend. She's obviously appalled about what happened, to the point where she cannot bear to read or hear about it.

Not because of yesterday, but the event has reinforced her decision, she is now going to vote Remain, not Leave. She says she realises that it is wishful thinking that any meaningful change is likely to happen on Brexit and that the 'to the barricades' idea is a pipe dream.

What helped change her mind is friends that she sees every year at a women's hippy camp.
She came back from it last week. She says a lot of them live in inner city areas, and told her that things are getting nasty. By that they meant anti-immigrant feeling etc. She now thinks, after hearing their experience, that the only group that may prosper if Brexit wins is the right wing, and particularly the hold it seems to be getting on the working class areas of the country.

I did hope she would come round, am delighted.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories will not contest the by election. Good. Well done them.
Sorry to disagree (and genuinely respectfully) but I do.

Life should go on - this stuff didn't happen after Ian Gow or Anthony Berry were murdered and quite rightly so.

The best way to stand up to the sort of people who do this is not to change things for them.

(now where's that tinhat smiley when you need it)

But there would be no by election if she hadn't been murdered.

If people think they can carry out such acts, and that the views or party they support may benefit, that seems wrong to me. It could provide further incentive to kill or injure.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:20 pm

yahyah wrote:Had a chat with my Green/anarchist friend. She's obviously appalled about what happened, to the point where she cannot bear to read or hear about it.

Not because of yesterday, but the event has reinforced her decision, she is now going to vote Remain, not Leave. She says she realises that it is wishful thinking that any meaningful change is likely to happen on Brexit and that the 'to the barricades' idea is a pipe dream.

What helped change her mind is friends that she sees every year at a women's hippy camp.
She came back from it last week. She says a lot of them live in inner city areas, and told her that things are getting nasty. By that they meant anti-immigrant feeling etc. She now thinks, after hearing their experience, that the only group that may prosper if Brexit wins is the right wing, and particularly the hold it seems to be getting on the working class areas of the country.

I did hope she would come round, am delighted.

Your friend listens to others, hears their stories and revises her own opinion based upon further information.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:21 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories will not contest the by election. Good. Well done them.
Sorry to disagree (and genuinely respectfully) but I do.

Life should go on - this stuff didn't happen after Ian Gow or Anthony Berry were murdered and quite rightly so.

The best way to stand up to the sort of people who do this is not to change things for them.

(now where's that tinhat smiley when you need it)
But there would be no by election if she hadn't been murdered.

If people think they can carry out such acts, and that the views or party they support may benefit, that seems wrong to me. It could provide further incentive to kill or injure.

Agree here with yahyah

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:30 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories will not contest the by election. Good. Well done them.
Sorry to disagree (and genuinely respectfully) but I do.

Life should go on - this stuff didn't happen after Ian Gow or Anthony Berry were murdered and quite rightly so.

The best way to stand up to the sort of people who do this is not to change things for them.

(now where's that tinhat smiley when you need it)

But there would be no by election if she hadn't been murdered.

If people think they can carry out such acts, and that the views or party they support may benefit, that seems wrong to me. It could provide further incentive to kill or injure.

I am torn. I see the honour and decency of the Tories in this act, if it is true (not a sentence I ever expected to hear myself saying) and it is indeed good for them.

But I think I am more persuaded by anatoly. The election should be contested. Jo Cox's killer was afraid of democracy, of people having a choice. The biggest refutation of his evil is to give the people the choice he has denied them. Do everything we would have done if she had chosen to step down for personal reasons. Don't let the bastards win, not by a single degree.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I posted the blog version of Chris Broshahan's series of tweets on FB, and a friend made this reply. I hope she won't mind me reposting it

I saw the same thing last weekend in Hanley - people from all parts of the world in the market square, everyone together, no trouble,
lots of laughter. It reminded me of being in a big international city, San Francisco. Except I heard more languages being spoken in
Hanely than I've ever heard in one place in my life.
I've heard it said that the areas with the biggest problem with racism and anti-immigration sentiment are not those with high immigration. I don't know that this is always true - Ukip has done well in my constituency of Southampton Itchen (arguably robbing Labour of the seat in 2015), where some of the poorer wards have seen a large increase in Eastern European immigration. But there certainly doesn't necessarily seem to be a direct correlation between high immigration and tensions between communities.

I live in one of the most materially deprived areas of the UK - it's been this way for decades, I think, if not centuries.
Poverty snuffs out creativity when those reduced to survival rations live in full view of others having significantly more
and no effort is made to correct injustice. Everyone poor somewhere is less a problem, as long as survival is possible,
because they're literally all in it together. It's demoralising living with inequality based upon chance circumstances
beyond an individual's control. Society must mitigate the unfairness because to do otherwise ends up costing
everyone too much. Resentment caused by intentionally stoked fear and division is an abomination. It's been
used a long time by misguided leaders.

I'm not complacent. I know several wise councillors and other responsible people who've taught me history
and current affairs in this community. I've only begun my education. In a few decades, I'll likely know more.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

Mmm. Swayed by that argument somewhat.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

Ah. Tories don't want to put someone up, might end up too crushing for them.

Tory image damage mitigation

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:44 pm

http://www.lbc.co.uk/jamess-monologue-o ... ten-132384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worth a listen.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:44 pm

The US Western states are on fire again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/wildfires" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 1:56 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:
From The G.Fuck their new audience.
Attachment:
13450867_10153820979367568_8332104866488606733_n.jpg

TRsGhost replied:
The "infidels" are now trying to back-pedal. That link has gone and there's some mealy mouthed cant that says they "don't support murder". And how they really, really disapprove of the way "the left" is "politicising" Jo Cox's death. Whether this is on their own initiative or because Facebook was making threatening noises following complaints, who can say.

Their claims of not supporting violence are more than a bit undermined by their extensive and very enthusiastic support for violence on the streets of France. Including pictures of their fellow travellers rather illegally letting off flares in the street. Which the police might just find very interesting, assuming they don't stroll round Facebook as part of their normal beat and haven't seen them already.

England's finest football hooligans. Not just hypocrites, but very, very thick hypocrites.

BF, on the other hand, has a hand-wringing statement from the leader, which I won't bore you with other than to say he does his best to tell the mob not to say or do anything embarrasing. Below which the finest specimens of aryan manhood let theirnleader down by arguing out at great mis-spelt length whether Jo Cox was killed by the "Remain" campaign so they can call off the referendum or whether the murderer was really a Muslim who's being protected by the police/NWO/Spectre/Fu Manchu...

Business as usual from the far right then. The leaders point the way, trying to not quite cross the line, then say it's nothing at all to do with them what their followers do.

Murdoch, Dacre, Rothermere, Cameron, Crosby and Farage truly deserve to spend a very long time in one of Dante's nastier circles of hell for what they've done to this country. Not only does Cameron promise a referendum, he lets the far right turn it into what they've wanted since 1948. A chance to build a head of steam for "send them all back where they came from."

And a special mention for David Blunkett. A once upon a time left-winger and decent human being who opened the door for all of this with his attacks on "bogus asylum seekers" nearly 20 years ago. And the succession of New Labour Home Secretaries who carried on where he left off.

Worth reading again in the cold light of day. Thank's TRG.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I posted the blog version of Chris Broshahan's series of tweets on FB, and a friend made this reply. I hope she won't mind me reposting it

I saw the same thing last weekend in Hanley - people from all parts of the world in the market square, everyone together, no trouble,
lots of laughter. It reminded me of being in a big international city, San Francisco. Except I heard more languages being spoken in
Hanely than I've ever heard in one place in my life.
I've heard it said that the areas with the biggest problem with racism and anti-immigration sentiment are not those with high immigration. I don't know that this is always true - Ukip has done well in my constituency of Southampton Itchen (arguably robbing Labour of the seat in 2015), where some of the poorer wards have seen a large increase in Eastern European immigration. But there certainly doesn't necessarily seem to be a direct correlation between high immigration and tensions between communities.

It's ugly here in Bracknell; even BNP stands. Like you we have Eastern Europeans moving in, and there are a few more black faces around than when we arrived in 99, but it's far more 'English White' than many places.
I've been dismayed by some the things I've heard but the most shocking thing is it's outright ignorant prejudice. So much so that I'll be glad to move away. I don't want to have to listen to it.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:07 pm

citizenJA wrote:Ah. Tories don't want to put someone up, might end up too crushing for them.

Tory image damage mitigation

My first thought as well.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:07 pm

Ukip has said that they will not contest the seat in the by-election (BBC).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:10 pm

I'm also unsure of the wisdom of an uncontested election.

What are Tory voters in Batley supposed to do? Vote for an MP standing for a party they don't agree with? Not vote?

And on the other side, there will still a need to select a candidate for Labour. So the Labour party members in Batley essentially get to select the next MP for the constituency.

I think democracy should continue. If some Tory voters in Batley choose to vote for a Labour candidate because of the circumstances, then so be it. I'd rather THEY chose that path than Shapps & Cameron.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

#Michael Crick

One political source has told me Thomas Mair will be charged under anti-terrorism legislation and taken to London

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:23 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm also unsure of the wisdom of an uncontested election.

What are Tory voters in Batley supposed to do? Vote for an MP standing for a party they don't agree with? Not vote?

And on the other side, there will still a need to select a candidate for Labour. So the Labour party members in Batley essentially get to select the next MP for the constituency.

I think democracy should continue. If some Tory voters in Batley choose to vote for a Labour candidate because of the circumstances, then so be it. I'd rather THEY chose that path than Shapps & Cameron.

Ditto the kippers.

Good from Corbyn.

' She was taken from us in an act of hatred; in a vile act that has killed her. It's an attack on democracy what happened yesterday - it's the well of hatred that killed her. '

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:24 pm

I think if Mair was a member of a known terrorist organisation it would be quite wrong for the by-election to be uncontested, as it is, I don't feel strongly about it.

Except that it sets a possibly uncomfortable precedent. What if it was a marginal?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:25 pm

HindleA wrote:#Michael Crick

One political source has told me Thomas Mair will be charged under anti-terrorism legislation and taken to London

If true, that's effectively scotched the idea that there wasn't a political motive behind it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Sorry to disagree (and genuinely respectfully) but I do.

Life should go on - this stuff didn't happen after Ian Gow or Anthony Berry were murdered and quite rightly so.

The best way to stand up to the sort of people who do this is not to change things for them.

(now where's that tinhat smiley when you need it)

But there would be no by election if she hadn't been murdered.

If people think they can carry out such acts, and that the views or party they support may benefit, that seems wrong to me. It could provide further incentive to kill or injure.
I am torn. I see the honour and decency of the Tories in this act, if it is true (not a sentence I ever expected to hear myself saying) and it is indeed good for them.

But I think I am more persuaded by anatoly. The election should be contested. Jo Cox's killer was afraid of democracy, of people having a choice. The biggest refutation of his evil is to give the people the choice he has denied them. Do everything we would have done if she had chosen to step down for personal reasons. Don't let the bastards win, not by a single degree.

I'm always slightly wary when someone dies and the survivors make a decision about something and say, 'its what they would have wanted', but having listened and read so much about that passionate, compassionate, decent lady, I think it's exactly what she would want.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:32 pm

I've wondered before whether, if a seat becomes vacant through the death of a sitting MP, there ought to be a by election at all and whether the party in possession of the seat simply nominate someone to take over until the next GE.

Obviously different of the MP resigns for whatever reason but if at a GE people vote for a party, then shouldn't they expect that party to fill that seat until the next GE?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:33 pm

Martin Kettle
There’s talk of parliament being recalled to have tributes to Jo Cox next Monday. When the Brighton bomb went off on 12 October 1984, parliament was not recalled, even though it was an assassination attempt on the prime minister and an MP was killed. When parliament resumed on 22 October, 10 days later, there was a statement on the bombing by the home secretary (Leon Brittan) which lasted for only 20 minutes.

Ian Gow, who was the last MP to be killed, died on 30 July 1990. Parliament had gone down four days previously. Parliament was not recalled. Parliament next sat on 6 September (recalled to discuss the Gulf war). Gow’s death was announced by the Speaker. There were no speeches of any kind.

Grant Shapps has proposed that the main parties give Labour a free run in the byelection and the Conservatives have said they will not put up a candidate. This didn’t happen in the byelections of 1984 and 1990 caused by the deaths above. There was some talk about it in the Enfield Southgate byelection of 1984, but a normal contest went ahead and Michael Portillo won. Indeed the Liberal Democrats won the Eastbourne byelection after the Conservative Gow’s death.
Times have changed in all sorts of ways.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:35 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm also unsure of the wisdom of an uncontested election.

What are Tory voters in Batley supposed to do? Vote for an MP standing for a party they don't agree with? Not vote?

And on the other side, there will still a need to select a candidate for Labour. So the Labour party members in Batley essentially get to select the next MP for the constituency.

I think democracy should continue. If some Tory voters in Batley choose to vote for a Labour candidate because of the circumstances, then so be it. I'd rather THEY chose that path than Shapps & Cameron.

Perhaps the Tories et al should put up a "paper" candidate, i.e. put a candidate up for election, but not actively campaign?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:36 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've wondered before whether, if a seat becomes vacant through the death of a sitting MP, there ought to be a by election at all and whether the party in possession of the seat simply nominate someone to take over until the next GE.

Obviously different of the MP resigns for whatever reason but if at a GE people vote for a party, then shouldn't they expect that party to fill that seat until the next GE?

Isn't that the point though, you vote for a person, not a party.

Hence the hoo-ha over local/national expenses.