Saturday 18 and Sunday 19 June

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: Apparently Nottingham has polled to leave by 64 to 34.
http://www.nottinghampost.com/nottingha ... tory.html?
[/url]

Voodoo poll, thus utterly meaningless.

Sorry about that, cJA

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:She's POLITICIZING it!!
OMG...spell it
POLITICISING

Ha! Bloody Anglophile . . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
How Cameron floated idea of backing an amnesty for longterm illegal immigrants himself
I seem to recall that an amnesty was one of Nick Clegg's ideas when he was setting out his stall. That soon fell by the wayside. So it's interesting that it should have found favour with his new mates - but didn't.

Edited to spell Nick Clegg's name correctly!

Edited (again) to spell "correctly" correctly . . . .

Will the long-term illegal immigrants have to ride around in the Tory ~~LibDem-~~illegal immigrant mobile? "Reveal yourselves and/or grass an illegal immigrant - here's the phone number?" Remember that one?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:21 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Apparently Nottingham has polled to leave by 64 to 34.
http://www.nottinghampost.com/nottingha ... tory.html?
[/url]
Voodoo poll, thus utterly meaningless.

Sorry about that, cJA

I won't have a falling out with HindleA's turquoise tortoise garden implement
never cross garden implements, no good will come of it
thank you for understanding my concerns and your patience with me is appreciated

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:23 pm

Tiny@

I'm not trying to influence you. Would I ? Oh well, maybe I would.

But I remember reading something before the 2010 election which made sense.
The writer thought that most of us are not really equipped to make totally informed decisions about major political issues. That was particularly true when stats and figures could be thrown around by both sides of the argument.

So, according to the writer, the best way to decide if you were stuck was to look at who supported what. Which argument was supported by people you respected and felt most comfortable with.

In this case it isn't completely straightforward obviously, as Cameron and Osborne muddy the waters somewhat for Remain, as do the few decent left wingers for Leave.

Maybe make a list of who is on the Brexit side, who is on the Remain side and visualise both.
What does your gut feeling tell you ? Or there's the old thing about imagine Brexit winning, how will you feel on Friday 24th, or the same for Remain. Do you feel relieved, or upset by either outcome ?

Failing that....consider whether you want Farage gloating on every TV in the land...that might do the trick

Good luck. It isn't easy. I went over and over it, even wondered if I had made a mistake after sending my postal vote in. Am settled it was right now.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:27 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
How Cameron floated idea of backing an amnesty for longterm illegal immigrants himself
I seem to recall that an amnesty was one of Nick Clegg's ideas when he was setting out his stall. That soon fell by the wayside. So it's interesting that it should have found favour with his new mates - but didn't.

Edited to spell Nick Clegg's name correctly!

Edited (again) to spell "correctly" correctly . . . .
Will the long-term illegal immigrants have to ride around in the LibDem-illegal immigrant mobile? "Reveal yourselves and/or grass an illegal immigrant - here's the phone number?" Remember that one?

I think the LibDems claimed to be against the vans. But it's true that, if that was the case, they certainly didn't possess sufficient clout to prevent them. By your friends shall . . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:She's POLITICIZING it!!
OMG...spell it
POLITICISING
Ha! Bloody Anglophile . . . .

no offence intended

In all seriousness, I am an Anglophile and I think it's perfectly fine as long as each person, regardless of who they are or where they're
from, is treated with equal respect. I do that, respecting all. At least, I try, respecting all human beings. I don't like some people but
that can't stop me from respecting them as human beings.

I universally admire turquoise tortoise garden implements - never met a one I didn't like - but that's an aside.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:34 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote: I seem to recall that an amnesty was one of Nick Clegg's ideas when he was setting out his stall. That soon fell by the wayside. So it's interesting that it should have found favour with his new mates - but didn't.

Edited to spell Nick Clegg's name correctly!

Edited (again) to spell "correctly" correctly . . . .
Will the long-term illegal immigrants have to ride around in the LibDem-illegal immigrant mobile? "Reveal yourselves and/or grass an illegal immigrant - here's the phone number?" Remember that one?
I think the LibDems claimed to be against the vans. But it's true that, if that was the case, they certainly didn't possess sufficient clout to prevent them. By your friends shall . . . .

Oh, no! Apologies to all LibDems who didn't come up with the illegal immigrant wagons, sincerely.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

I've corrected the original post I made wrongly accusing LibDems of being the master-minds behind the Tory-led coalition government's illegal- immigrant-be-gone vans with a phone number and one-way ticket back to somewhere.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:40 pm

citizenJA wrote:I've corrected the original post I made wrongly accusing LibDems of being the master-minds behind the Tory-led coalition government's illegal- immigrant-be-gone vans with a phone number and one-way ticket back to somewhere.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:42 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
How Cameron floated idea of backing an amnesty for longterm illegal immigrants himself
I seem to recall that an amnesty was one of Nick Clegg's ideas when he was setting out his stall. That soon fell by the wayside. So it's interesting that it should have found favour with his new mates - but didn't.

Edited to spell Nick Clegg's name correctly!

Edited (again) to spell "correctly" correctly . . . .
Will the long-term illegal immigrants have to ride around in the Tory ~~LibDem-~~illegal immigrant mobile? "Reveal yourselves and/or grass an illegal immigrant - here's the phone number?" Remember that one?

And that one was a Tory idea wasn't it. They were whipping up scrounger, anti immigrant feelings well before 2015,

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:48 pm

In a separate interview on the Andrew Marr Show Vote Leave’s Michael Gove said he did not accept leaving the EU would be a gamble. He said:

We would be saying that the British people in their wisdom and in their generosity have the ability not just to govern themselves well but to be a progressive beacon to the world. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Was he dressed as Queen Victoria for that interview?

Edited to add -

Michael Gove also said, "The missionaries and a free foreworded (by me, no less) bible will be dispatched immediately after the count."

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 3:59 pm

Peter Walker
✔
@peterwalker99

Boris Johnson has not yet got the "positive" memo. Talking about "terrorist suspects and criminals" on the streets of London.
12:14 PM - 19 Jun 2016 (Politics Live, Guardian)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:07 pm

Maybe he could throw in blaming Labour politicians for it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:07 pm

Shortly after midnight on Friday, Sue Stanhope, the counting officer for the city of Sunderland, will declare how many people in that area have voted for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union, and how many have voted for it to remain. It will be among the first of 382 such declarations – one for each local authority area in Great Britain – with additional results for Northern Ireland and Gibraltar. Further reports will follow at uneven intervals throughout the night: the last are not expected much before seven in the morning.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ain-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:10 pm

Thanks OhSo.

I'm doing my weekly shop on Thursday to make sure if I lose sleep then Friday can be written off.
It is going to be nail biting stuff.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:22 pm

yahyah wrote:Thanks OhSo.

I'm doing my weekly shop on Thursday to make sure if I lose sleep then Friday can be written off.
It is going to be nail biting stuff.

As it happens, I am having an initial meeting at 10.00am on Friday to discuss various issues relating to my ongoing depression and the best form of counselling/treatment for these.

I have enough to worry about as it is without a victory for Leave.

Could someone arrange things for me?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:23 pm

I won't be able to stay up. Friday is Mr Ohso's last day of radio therapy, and I'm going with him to give the staff a special cake. I've been baking cakes regularly for them as a thank you, but I want to make this one special.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:24 pm

Good luck for that mbc. Hope something that suits you can be arranged. Sure it will.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:32 pm

Nice slogan from a Cifer

Britain in, Tories out.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:42 pm

Nigel Farage calls for UK gun laws to be relaxed
Ukip leader says ban on handguns brought in after Dunblane massacre is 'ludicrous'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2014. But lest we forget....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:45 pm

Mid June and I'm sitting here with a blanket over my legs. Mr Ohso has just read out that they are expecting excessively high temperatures in the American West.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:47 pm

Well done Andy Murray.

Great performance to come back from a set down and trailing 3-0 to win his 5th Queens title.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:01 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Mid June and I'm sitting here with a blanket over my legs. Mr Ohso has just read out that they are expecting excessively high temperatures in the American West.

That region is on fire too.

California wildfire triples in size as heatwave looms
Firefighters are battling the blaze in Santa Barbara, while wildfires in New Mexico prompt a state of emergency as it also braces for high temperatures

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... new-mexico" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:No exit polls, so we just have to wait for actual results.

It helped a great deal in Scotland two years ago that the first declaration (tiny Clackmannanshire) was actually a good pointer to the eventual result.

That will not necessarily be the case this time.......

Let's hope not.

I love the good people of Sunderland but I fear their verdict this time.

Although, on reflection, there is Nissan so they may surprise me.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:23 pm

gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:No exit polls, so we just have to wait for actual results.

It helped a great deal in Scotland two years ago that the first declaration (tiny Clackmannanshire) was actually a good pointer to the eventual result.

That will not necessarily be the case this time.......
Let's hope not.

I love the good people of Sunderland but I fear their verdict this time.

Although, on reflection, there is Nissan so they may surprise me.

My brother wields a spanner at Nissan and they've been told "unofficially" that in the event of an Out vote, they have plans in place to move production abroad asap. He says a lot of the workers still want out, but they are mostly so thick, they haven't registered. Here's hoping.

Edit: He means the Brexiters, not the workers generally.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:30 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:No exit polls, so we just have to wait for actual results.

It helped a great deal in Scotland two years ago that the first declaration (tiny Clackmannanshire) was actually a good pointer to the eventual result.

That will not necessarily be the case this time.......
Let's hope not.

I love the good people of Sunderland but I fear their verdict this time.

Although, on reflection, there is Nissan so they may surprise me.
My brother wields a spanner at Nissan and they've been told "unofficially" that in the event of an Out vote, they have plans in place to move production abroad asap. He says a lot of the workers still want out, but they are mostly so thick, they haven't registered. Here's hoping.

Edit: He means the Brexiters, not the workers generally.

I wondered how large multinational manufacturers were dropping hints of the obvious. As a manager at such a company I would feel a duty to warn the workforce.

My company released a - we are officially not taking a position but we will be much better off in - statememt.

The remain campaign needs to stop slagging Farage off for being the racist he is and talk jobs and money.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:37 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Nigel Farage calls for UK gun laws to be relaxed
Ukip leader says ban on handguns brought in after Dunblane massacre is 'ludicrous'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2014. But lest we forget....

It's at times like that that I would happily sign off on a relaxation of our gun laws, but only for so long as is necessary for someone to go out and shoot Farage. I remember the moment I first heard about Dunblane. It wouldn't have to be fatally, just blow his kneecaps off or something equally excruciating, then interview him about his opinions about gun laws now he knows how much it f***ing hurts and by the way, the guy's still holding the gun to your head, and do you still think it's such a good idea to let him have a weapon now?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:42 pm

gilsey wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: Oh, and guess what, Corbyn was a disaster for being honest saying that Free Movement of People equals no upper limit of immigration!

This possible explains why politics and politicians is held in contempt....any other answer would be at best mealy-mouthed or at worst a lie

If Remain supporters cannot argue for the benefits of immigration then they should just get lost!
Well, exactly. Marr wouldn't let it rest, of course it's win-win for him, either Corbyn lies or he's 'failing to appeal to Labour-UKIP switchers'.

To be honest it was a daft thing to say (unless you think Corbyn is trying to engineer brexit), in part because it may not be true. In the future it is entirely possible that the EU will look to either limit free movement, or more likely consider steps they can take to limit the impact. Corbyn doesn't know and should simply have said that.

I don't think migration is a benefit to many working people in the UK. It probably benefits the economy as a whole, and it provides an opportunity to work abroad for young people. But if you work in low skill industries and see your wages being undercut you probably have an issue with it.

The rest of Corbyn's arguments about how most issues are caused by UK government policies are much more solid.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:44 pm

Remember the BNP party political broadcast in 2010 ?

It took a leaf straight out of the Nazi and Italian Fascist's propaganda appeal to ex-servicemen.
It showed an actor waving a can of lager and falling about. Then it told us how many ex-servicemen had alcohol and drug problems, were unemployed and desperate, suffered mental health issues. All true.

At the same election the BNP wanted to relax the gun laws to..you've guessed it...allow every ex-serviceman/woman to legally have guns. The same group they had been telling us suffered so much mental instability. Go figure.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:55 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
gilsey wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: Oh, and guess what, Corbyn was a disaster for being honest saying that Free Movement of People equals no upper limit of immigration!

This possible explains why politics and politicians is held in contempt....any other answer would be at best mealy-mouthed or at worst a lie

If Remain supporters cannot argue for the benefits of immigration then they should just get lost!
Well, exactly. Marr wouldn't let it rest, of course it's win-win for him, either Corbyn lies or he's 'failing to appeal to Labour-UKIP switchers'.
To be honest it was a daft thing to say (unless you think Corbyn is trying to engineer brexit), in part because it may not be true. In the future it is entirely possible that the EU will look to either limit free movement, or more likely consider steps they can take to limit the impact. Corbyn doesn't know and should simply have said that.

I don't think migration is a benefit to many working people in the UK. It probably benefits the economy as a whole, and it provides an opportunity to work abroad for young people. But if you work in low skill industries and see your wages being undercut you probably have an issue with it.

The rest of Corbyn's arguments about how most issues are caused by UK government policies are much more solid.

He actually said that there could be no upper limit while you have free movement....seems pretty bloody obvious to me, and any other answer would be either an avoidance of the question (which I believe is what people say they don't like) or a lie

If the EU chooses to limit free movement then obviously that may change but until that is the case he was speaking the truth

Your comment 'it may not be true' is based on what? Is there a concrete plan to limit free movement of people? Is there an upper limit?

You said he should say he doesn't know...let us play back that question with your answer (and some hypotheticals)

Marr: Is there an upper limit to immigration?

Corbyn: I don't know

Marr: I beg your pardon? Is there any way that immigration can be limited then?

Corbyn: No, but in the future there may be a change to the rules limiting Free Movement

Marr: But there are no plans for that and it would be strongly opposed by other EU members....are you saying that there is a concrete plan from you to limit this, or support limiting this?

Corbyn: I don't know

Well that looks good doesn't it...when the answer is no as the current rules stand. He did say that there are things we can do to prevent large migration within the EU but you wouldn't agree with his proposals on that either

If you believe there is, or should be, an upper limit......then the sensible response would be to vote for Brexit...is that the case TE or are you just letting the Corbyn hate blind you again?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 6:14 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nsupported" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

North Middlesex A&E staff describe unit as unsafe and unsupported
Report reveals treatment allegedly so poor that doctors working at unit would not advise their friends and relatives to use it

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 6:17 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nsupported

North Middlesex A&E staff describe unit as unsafe and unsupported
Report reveals treatment allegedly so poor that doctors working at unit would not advise their friends and relatives to use it

Sad to hear. That was my nearest A&E when I was a child.

They took a rusty nail and attached piece of wood out of my foot when I jumped on it by accident.
Traumatic occurrence, but it didn't stop me dancing round the garden like a whirling dervish.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 6:21 pm

I had my heart op in the Middlesex. Brilliant staff. Filthy conditions.
I was only in there for four days. Came home on the fifth, but I couldn't get out of there quick enough. Was scared to touch anything.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:07 pm

EU referendum: ‘This is now a battle for an idea of Britain’
Will Hutton

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:21 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
gilsey wrote: Well, exactly. Marr wouldn't let it rest, of course it's win-win for him, either Corbyn lies or he's 'failing to appeal to Labour-UKIP switchers'.
To be honest it was a daft thing to say (unless you think Corbyn is trying to engineer brexit), in part because it may not be true. In the future it is entirely possible that the EU will look to either limit free movement, or more likely consider steps they can take to limit the impact. Corbyn doesn't know and should simply have said that.

I don't think migration is a benefit to many working people in the UK. It probably benefits the economy as a whole, and it provides an opportunity to work abroad for young people. But if you work in low skill industries and see your wages being undercut you probably have an issue with it.

The rest of Corbyn's arguments about how most issues are caused by UK government policies are much more solid.

He actually said that there could be no upper limit while you have free movement....seems pretty bloody obvious to me, and any other answer would be either an avoidance of the question (which I believe is what people say they don't like) or a lie

If the EU chooses to limit free movement then obviously that may change but until that is the case he was speaking the truth

Your comment 'it may not be true' is based on what? Is there a concrete plan to limit free movement of people? Is there an upper limit?

You said he should say he doesn't know...let us play back that question with your answer (and some hypotheticals)

Marr: Is there an upper limit to immigration?

Corbyn: I don't know

Marr: I beg your pardon? Is there any way that immigration can be limited then?

Corbyn: No, but in the future there may be a change to the rules limiting Free Movement

Marr: But there are no plans for that and it would be strongly opposed by other EU members....are you saying that there is a concrete plan from you to limit this, or support limiting this?

Corbyn: I don't know

Well that looks good doesn't it...when the answer is no as the current rules stand. He did say that there are things we can do to prevent large migration within the EU but you wouldn't agree with his proposals on that either

If you believe there is, or should be, an upper limit......then the sensible response would be to vote for Brexit...is that the case TE or are you just letting the Corbyn hate blind you again?

I think he is useless, but to be fair to Corbyn his answer was technically correct just really badly phrased.

Would have been much better if he had said - it is possible to limit migration, we need to collaborate with our EU partners.

As it was almost the political equivalent of this.

https://youtu.be/MpSo1aciPqU

When your opponents rush your words out in a press release you should have done better.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:22 pm

yahyah wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nsupported

North Middlesex A&E staff describe unit as unsafe and unsupported
Report reveals treatment allegedly so poor that doctors working at unit would not advise their friends and relatives to use it

Sad to hear. That was my nearest A&E when I was a child.

They took a rusty nail and attached piece of wood out of my foot when I jumped on it by accident.
Traumatic occurrence, but it didn't stop me dancing round the garden like a whirling dervish.

It was where I trained as a midwife.A long time ago.
The obs & gynae unit was in part designed by the consultants.A tower block ish thing.
Theatres lower ground floor.
SCBU floor 7,iirc.And two lifts for the whole building.
Intubated babies had to be bagged upstairs,sometimes tricky if the lifts were busy with patients and visitors.
In the wards the nursing stations were positioned so that we could not see a single mother or baby,just a wall.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:33 pm

Cameron's SECRET battleplan to stay in Number 10: PM warned narrow lead could trigger coup

DAVID CAMERON is preparing to launch a “policy blitz” in the wake of the referendum in an attempt to divert attention from the civil war raging within the Conservative Party.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... confidence

Remembering it is the Express.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

On ITV news. Questioning a business man...Didn't catch his name but I think he was a small business owner. Definitely not a mogul or the like. He was voting leave.

Some good questions asked about the consequences. He didn't really answer. Waved his hands around when asked about the stock exchanges. Said it goes up and down - well duhhhh.

He said the EU only benefits big corporations. Small business's are hampered by things like the work, and health and safety directives.
And that small business's creates more jobs.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:03 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote: My brother wields a spanner at Nissan and they've been told "unofficially" that in the event of an Out vote, they have plans in place to move production abroad asap. He says a lot of the workers still want out, but they are mostly so thick, they haven't registered. Here's hoping.

Edit: He means the Brexiters, not the workers generally.
I wondered how large multinational manufacturers were dropping hints of the obvious. As a manager at such a company I would feel a duty to warn the workforce.

My company released a - we are officially not taking a position but we will be much better off in - statememt.

The remain campaign needs to stop slagging Farage off for being the racist he is and talk jobs and money.
That's what they've been doing for the whole campaign, and it has done very little good. I think it's good that people on the Remain side have finally found the nerve to call out racism when they see it. For far too long, borderline extremist views have been allowed to go unchallenged in the Leave side for fear of upsetting bigots who like to think their vile views are legitimate.

I think I have to agree with you. Ask any blue collar worker and he'll say immigration which means low paying jobs, and housing. Those affect him most closely. I honestly don't think what's happening in the stock market or many of the other arguments are likely to worry him that much.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:06 pm

Again? I'd say she'll be lucky to still have a job late next week even if Leave win.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:11 pm

Okay. I think now a good time to let you all know in a general way the events of the last several months. It's a rainy Sunday.
Jane Austen thought rainy Sunday evenings a good time to unburden oneself to loved ones.

My mother is alive and doing great, my youngest sister has had some kind of life-changing event happen to her, promises updates,
meanwhile, stop worrying, citizenJA, she wrote hastily and my grown-up daughter sent an image of herself, grinning from ear to ear,
navigating a boat on a river somewhere in India. My mum sent me a birthday card. I'm deeply touched by her writing and mean no
disrespect to the woman when I write she's still a kook. I think she sincerely believes I can be Queen of the UK if I just applied
myself. Nothing changed there - she's always had grand hopes for all her off-spring.

Thank you for reading this if you've done so and as always, your continued patience with me is much appreciated.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Apparently Nottingham has polled to leave by 64 to 34.
http://www.nottinghampost.com/nottingha ... tory.html?
[/url]
Voodoo poll, thus utterly meaningless.

Sorry about that, cJA

it's ok it was me

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:21 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:37 pm

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/respecting- ... 2b0K3rTVpX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Respecting the choice of the British people: Immigration policy after the referendum

J.Portes.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:39 pm

[quote=e"ohsocynical"]On ITV news. Questioning a business man...Didn't catch his name but I think he was a small business owner. Definitely not a mogul or the like. He was voting leave.

Some good questions asked about the consequences. He didn't really answer. Waved his hands around when asked about the stock exchanges. Said it goes up and down - well duhhhh.

He said the EU only benefits big corporations. Small business's are hampered by things like the work, and health and safety directives.
And that small business's creates more jobs.[/quote]

So what he's basically saying is that he'd make everything worse and more dangerous for his employees if only the bastard EU would let him lower standards. Don't suppose anyone was asking him that sort of question, were they?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:40 pm

yahyah wrote:Nice slogan from a Cifer

Britain in, Tories out.

This says it

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm

**** *** **** ********
I think we all agree

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:50 pm

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 8:58 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: To be honest it was a daft thing to say (unless you think Corbyn is trying to engineer brexit), in part because it may not be true. In the future it is entirely possible that the EU will look to either limit free movement, or more likely consider steps they can take to limit the impact. Corbyn doesn't know and should simply have said that.

I don't think migration is a benefit to many working people in the UK. It probably benefits the economy as a whole, and it provides an opportunity to work abroad for young people. But if you work in low skill industries and see your wages being undercut you probably have an issue with it.

The rest of Corbyn's arguments about how most issues are caused by UK government policies are much more solid.

He actually said that there could be no upper limit while you have free movement....seems pretty bloody obvious to me, and any other answer would be either an avoidance of the question (which I believe is what people say they don't like) or a lie

If the EU chooses to limit free movement then obviously that may change but until that is the case he was speaking the truth

Your comment 'it may not be true' is based on what? Is there a concrete plan to limit free movement of people? Is there an upper limit?

You said he should say he doesn't know...let us play back that question with your answer (and some hypotheticals)

Marr: Is there an upper limit to immigration?

Corbyn: I don't know

Marr: I beg your pardon? Is there any way that immigration can be limited then?

Corbyn: No, but in the future there may be a change to the rules limiting Free Movement

Marr: But there are no plans for that and it would be strongly opposed by other EU members....are you saying that there is a concrete plan from you to limit this, or support limiting this?

Corbyn: I don't know

Well that looks good doesn't it...when the answer is no as the current rules stand. He did say that there are things we can do to prevent large migration within the EU but you wouldn't agree with his proposals on that either

If you believe there is, or should be, an upper limit......then the sensible response would be to vote for Brexit...is that the case TE or are you just letting the Corbyn hate blind you again?
I think he is useless, but to be fair to Corbyn his answer was technically correct just really badly phrased.

Would have been much better if he had said - it is possible to limit migration, we need to collaborate with our EU partners.

As it was almost the political equivalent of this.

https://youtu.be/MpSo1aciPqU

When your opponents rush your words out in a press release you should have done better.

What do you mean it was 'technically correct' - and your proposal would have been criticised for not answering the question.....