Tuesday 21st Jun 2016

[ohsocynical]

BREAKING: Whistleblowers come forward with explosive allegations about the EU Referendum

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/21/brea ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

Someone on a BBC vox-pop thing has just said that he will vote "Out" so that Britian can become "a more free and controlled" country.

Yes. That's what I thought, too.

It makes me feel so proud.

You've done it again, haven't you?

[tinyclanger2]

Someone on a BBC vox-pop thing has just said that he will vote "Out" so that Britian can become "a more free and controlled" country.

Yes. That's what I thought, too.

It makes me feel so proud.

You've done it again, haven't you?

It's a gift.
(modest emoticon)

[citizenJA]

Night. Sorry about my meltdown earlier.
My husband has threatened to confiscate my laptop if I am going to cry about all the right wing ****s around. So will behave.

Goodnight, yahyah!

[citizenJA]

That's an achievement.

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

It's a novel, you say, not non-fiction? I look forward to reading your account. Will Harold win? If you're unable to say, I understand. Congratulations on your progress. Exciting work, writing.

[howsillyofme1]

BREAKING: Whistleblowers come forward with explosive allegations about the EU Referendum

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/21/brea ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Evenin'

'Twas on C4 News....seemed a bit flimsy but there are clear links to Tories, No2AV and Elliott who is pretending he knows nothing.....

The whole corrupt cesspit needs Hercules to come and give it a good swilling out....and we are continually told it is Labour who have a problem!

The Leave Tories have been absolutely disgraceful...lie after lie and working hand in hand with xenophobes....the ones with a valid argument for Leave have kept well away from it

Remain has not covered itself in glory at all but seems to have calmed down recently.

By the way C4 News has been head and shoulders above the rest....again. Doubt it would survive long under a Johnson/Gve/Farage Government.....

[citizenJA]

David Cameron's poor leadership and judgement is terrifying. He's PM of the UK, it was his decision. I'm very sorry. All the
country require and deserve responsible leadership. I'm sorry for everyone. I'm frightened of either outcome. In or out, I'm
scared for the people and country.

[ohsocynical]

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 7h7 hours ago

The Leave campaign has generally been...

Honest: 26%
Dishonest: 43%

Positive: 27%
Negative: 46%

(via YouGov)

[howsillyofme1]

David Cameron's poor leadership and judgement is terrifying. He's PM of the UK, it was his decision. I'm very sorry. All the
country require and deserve responsible leadership. I'm sorry for everyone. I'm frightened of either outcome. In or out, I'm
scared for the people and country.

He is and there is no excuse for him

The only thing I can say is this referendum was going to come sooner or later...the pressure would have continued to build for one and possibly one now may be better than one later - although under this PM hasn't helped

Anyone who reacts badly or violently to this must take responsibility for their own actions....the hatred coming from some of the Leave campaigners has been sad to see....and, lest we forget, these are British people...those who are supposed to be superior and better than the rest of the world according to the tiny imaginations that they possess

It is easy to blame the elites but a lot those complaining (who I know) voted Tory in 2010 and 2015 so I have very, very limited sympathy...I will leave that for those who wnated a better Government and a better PM

[ohsocynical]

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

It's a novel, you say, not non-fiction? I look forward to reading your account. Will Harold win? If you're unable to say, I understand. Congratulations on your progress. Exciting work, writing.

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Poor old Harold had one of those days when you shouldn't get out of bed.

[ohsocynical]

BREAKING: Whistleblowers come forward with explosive allegations about the EU Referendum

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/21/brea ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 23m23 minutes ago

On top of what we reported on Return Research on #C4News tonight, Nic Conner who worked for them in 2014, now on core staff of Vote Leave

[ohsocynical]

Worrying how many people are blaming the EU for problems that are entirely down to the government.

[citizenJA]

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

It's a novel, you say, not non-fiction? I look forward to reading your account. Will Harold win? If you're unable to say, I understand. Congratulations on your progress. Exciting work, writing.

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Harold had just successfully routed an enemy invader up North and had to force march his army back down South in an incredibly
short time to take on William - come on, Harold did okay, he wasn't superhuman.


I wonder about that Norman invasion. What would the country be like now had William not won?

[citizenJA]

Harold wanted to win, no question. If winning wasn't possible, death in battle was the best he could do.

[ohsocynical]

Ian Northcott BEM ‏@buskingbobby 5m5 minutes ago

#BBCDebate Sadiq asked what the Brexit plan would be - what's the plan of remain if we stay?

Ummm. Business as usual?

[citizenJA]

Worrying how many people are blaming the EU for problems that are entirely down to the government.

Too many. That's why either one scares me - in or out - nothing solved, things made worse.

[howsillyofme1]

Ian Northcott BEM ‏@buskingbobby 5m5 minutes ago

#BBCDebate Sadiq asked what the Brexit plan would be - what's the plan of remain if we stay?

Ummm. Business as usual?

I must be so naïve but if someone is proposing a major change to the current situation then surely they should be able to set out the costs, the risks and the benefits of said change?

[citizenJA]

David Cameron's poor leadership and judgement is terrifying. He's PM of the UK, it was his decision. I'm very sorry. All the
country require and deserve responsible leadership. I'm sorry for everyone. I'm frightened of either outcome. In or out, I'm
scared for the people and country.

He is and there is no excuse for him

The only thing I can say is this referendum was going to come sooner or later...the pressure would have continued to build for one and possibly one now may be better than one later - although under this PM hasn't helped

Anyone who reacts badly or violently to this must take responsibility for their own actions....the hatred coming from some of the Leave campaigners has been sad to see....and, lest we forget, these are British people...those who are supposed to be superior and better than the rest of the world according to the tiny imaginations that they possess

It is easy to blame the elites but a lot those complaining (who I know) voted Tory in 2010 and 2015 so I have very, very limited sympathy...I will leave that for those who wnated a better Government and a better PM

You're right, of course. It didn't have to happen this way. It shouldn't have been allowed to happen this way. People are responsible for their actions, their rage, no question. Current government have pushed people, Cameron has fouled up and allowed stories run blaming others for what his government is responsible for. Tory government have cultivated cynicism, anger and fear. It is not a responsible way to lead people, ever. People haven't been given enough information, not enough clear direction about the consequences of the UK leaving or staying in the EU. It's not right. A simple majority vote and no minimum turn-out for the thing is irresponsible.

[citizenJA]

Ian Northcott BEM ‏@buskingbobby 5m5 minutes ago

#BBCDebate Sadiq asked what the Brexit plan would be - what's the plan of remain if we stay?

Ummm. Business as usual?

I must be so naïve but if someone is proposing a major change to the current situation then surely they should be able to set out the costs, the risks and the benefits of said change?

Yes, absolutely correct. Not naive at all.

[tinyclanger2]

Survation have released their final EU telephone poll for IG Group (not sure if that’s their final poll for the referendum itself, or just the final one for IG). Topline figures with changes from their weekend poll are are REMAIN 45%(nc), LEAVE 44%(+2), Undecided 11%(-2). Full tabs are here.

Surveymonkey also released new online figures this morning (for those unfamiliar with Surveymonkey as pollsters, I wrote about them here). Their topline figures in the new poll, conducted Friday-Monday are REMAIN 48%, LEAVE 49%. Changes are from their poll last week.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

[citizenJA]

The writings of Gove and Boris reveal a chilling double act
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... exit-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Britain votes to leave the European Union on Thursday, the chances of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove running the country will
increase. In such a nightmare scenario, we need to know what the two leading Brexiteers stand for and what they are likely to do
to us if, as is not impossible, a discredited David Cameron is toppled.To find out how they would change Britain, I have been
reading their books – everything from Johnson’s The Perils of the Pushy Parents: A Cautionary Tale to Gove’s Celsius 7/7:
How the West’s Policy of Appeasement Has Provoked Yet More Fundamentalist Terror – and What Has to Be Done Now.

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

[TR'sGhost]

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

It's a novel, you say, not non-fiction? I look forward to reading your account. Will Harold win? If you're unable to say, I understand. Congratulations on your progress. Exciting work, writing.

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Could very easily have gone the other way though. From what we know of the battle it went on for a longer time than usual for the period, the English were in a strong position and the huscarls in particular regarded as the best infantry in Europe.

Norman panics that William had been killed turning into a rout, Hardrada turning up a week earlier giving the English longer to regroup and assemble in the south east or Hardrada not turning up at all, the less experienced over-enthusiastic English fyrd not pursuing retreating groups of Normans down the hill and getting cut to pieces, a lucky axe-stroke that dispatched William....

An English victory would have radically changed the course of European history. It's one of those fascinating "what ifs". No succession of English monarchs with land-holdings in France and claims to the French throne for a start.

[TR'sGhost]

That's an achievement.

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

The 1066 campaigns consisted of a Norse army under Hardrada being defeated by Harold Godwinson, a descendant of Norsemen, who in turn was defeated by William and his army. William and much of his army themselves being yet more descendants of Norsemen.

They got around a lot back then, Norsemen.

[TR'sGhost]

The writings of Gove and Boris reveal a chilling double act
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... exit-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Britain votes to leave the European Union on Thursday, the chances of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove running the country will
increase. In such a nightmare scenario, we need to know what the two leading Brexiteers stand for and what they are likely to do
to us if, as is not impossible, a discredited David Cameron is toppled.To find out how they would change Britain, I have been
reading their books – everything from Johnson’s The Perils of the Pushy Parents: A Cautionary Tale to Gove’s Celsius 7/7:
How the West’s Policy of Appeasement Has Provoked Yet More Fundamentalist Terror – and What Has to Be Done Now.

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

Well, that seems to be what they'd like. Nigel might have things to say about that though. And I wonder how a Johnson/Gove/Smith/Farage etc. Brexit government would go down with the UK's manufacturers and banks.

A Brexit Tory party might even find itself short of funds and facing a lot of criticism from a lot of people with the means to make sure their voice is heard.

[Willow904]

The writings of Gove and Boris reveal a chilling double act
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... exit-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Britain votes to leave the European Union on Thursday, the chances of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove running the country will
increase. In such a nightmare scenario, we need to know what the two leading Brexiteers stand for and what they are likely to do
to us if, as is not impossible, a discredited David Cameron is toppled.To find out how they would change Britain, I have been
reading their books – everything from Johnson’s The Perils of the Pushy Parents: A Cautionary Tale to Gove’s Celsius 7/7:
How the West’s Policy of Appeasement Has Provoked Yet More Fundamentalist Terror – and What Has to Be Done Now.

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

Only if they can command a majority in the House of Commons. Which would involve being rather more moderate than their current rhetoric suggests, I would have thought.

My husband mentioned earlier how Gove's future career looks a bit wobbly if "remain" win and personally I feel there is slightly more "danger" of him ending up out of government than in charge of it come the 24th. He might have to get back to that book Murdoch paid him for.

[RogerOThornhill]

David SchneiderVerified account
‏@davidschneider
Brexiters: Do NOT trust experts!

*Beckham comes out for Remain*

Brexiters: What does he know? He’s not an expert.

(HT @sturdyAlex)

[mbc1955]

The writings of Gove and Boris reveal a chilling double act
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... exit-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Britain votes to leave the European Union on Thursday, the chances of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove running the country will
increase. In such a nightmare scenario, we need to know what the two leading Brexiteers stand for and what they are likely to do
to us if, as is not impossible, a discredited David Cameron is toppled.To find out how they would change Britain, I have been
reading their books – everything from Johnson’s The Perils of the Pushy Parents: A Cautionary Tale to Gove’s Celsius 7/7:
How the West’s Policy of Appeasement Has Provoked Yet More Fundamentalist Terror – and What Has to Be Done Now.

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

Only if they can command a majority in the House of Commons. Which would involve being rather more moderate than their current rhetoric suggests, I would have thought.

My husband mentioned earlier how Gove's future career looks a bit wobbly if "remain" win and personally I feel there is slightly more "danger" of him ending up out of government than in charge of it come the 24th. He might have to get back to that book Murdoch paid him for.

I'd have said a bit non-existent meself, at least until the next Referendum, if ever someone is so incredibly stupid to go through this again. Johnson won't have much to fall back on either.

[citizenJA]

It's a novel, you say, not non-fiction? I look forward to reading your account. Will Harold win? If you're unable to say, I understand. Congratulations on your progress. Exciting work, writing.

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Could very easily have gone the other way though. From what we know of the battle it went on for a longer time than usual for the period, the English were in a strong position and the huscarls in particular regarded as the best infantry in Europe.

Norman panics that William had been killed turning into a rout, Hardrada turning up a week earlier giving the English longer to regroup and assemble in the south east or Hardrada not turning up at all, the less experienced over-enthusiastic English fyrd not pursuing retreating groups of Normans down the hill and getting cut to pieces, a lucky axe-stroke that dispatched William....

An English victory would have radically changed the course of European history. It's one of those fascinating "what ifs". No succession of English monarchs with land-holdings in France and claims to the French throne for a start.

Fascinating, sincerely. Can you recommend any authors for me to read for more information?

[citizenJA]

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Could very easily have gone the other way though. From what we know of the battle it went on for a longer time than usual for the period, the English were in a strong position and the huscarls in particular regarded as the best infantry in Europe.

Norman panics that William had been killed turning into a rout, Hardrada turning up a week earlier giving the English longer to regroup and assemble in the south east or Hardrada not turning up at all, the less experienced over-enthusiastic English fyrd not pursuing retreating groups of Normans down the hill and getting cut to pieces, a lucky axe-stroke that dispatched William....

An English victory would have radically changed the course of European history. It's one of those fascinating "what ifs". No succession of English monarchs with land-holdings in France and claims to the French throne for a start.

Yes, the extent to which it really could have gone either way are astonishing. Indeed, even with Harold's death, if one of the Godwinson brothers had survived and held the shield-wall together until nightfall, William might have been forced to cut his losses and withdraw. Or if he had have been killed, and then the Bretons and Angevins started taking chunks out of Normandy.

Alternative scenario - Hardrada defeats Harold, and William still invaded from the South, and England ended up getting split between a Northern, Norse Kingdom and a Southern, Norman Kingdom...

Magnificent. Thank you. Excited over what ifs, ideas, historical wondering...

I've been anxious over current affairs.

Our neighbours are coping in the way they like best. Home improvements - the more power tools the happier they seem to be. I
nearly hollered something rude out the window earlier this afternoon. Instead, I left the flat. I glowered. Until I got the giggles.

[citizenJA]

Harold wanted to win, no question. If winning wasn't possible, death in battle was the best he could do.

Harold did better than OK, he almost defeated invasions at either end of the country. He made a few mistakes but nothing catastrophic. Both he and William were obviously very skilled generals. Harold was unlucky in losing both his brothers early on, which meant he couldn't afford to take any risks to take advantage of a partial Norman collapse. Even so, if he hadn't been hit by that arrow, it's likely the shield wall would have held and a draw for Harold was basically the same as a win.

Exactly! Yes! My other post mentioned a bit of this. It's only been recently (within the last five years) I've learned how skilled Harold was.

[citizenJA]

The writings of Gove and Boris reveal a chilling double act
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... exit-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Britain votes to leave the European Union on Thursday, the chances of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove running the country will
increase. In such a nightmare scenario, we need to know what the two leading Brexiteers stand for and what they are likely to do
to us if, as is not impossible, a discredited David Cameron is toppled.To find out how they would change Britain, I have been
reading their books – everything from Johnson’s The Perils of the Pushy Parents: A Cautionary Tale to Gove’s Celsius 7/7:
How the West’s Policy of Appeasement Has Provoked Yet More Fundamentalist Terror – and What Has to Be Done Now.

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

Only if they can command a majority in the House of Commons. Which would involve being rather more moderate than their current rhetoric suggests, I would have thought.

My husband mentioned earlier how Gove's future career looks a bit wobbly if "remain" win and personally I feel there is slightly more "danger" of him ending up out of government than in charge of it come the 24th. He might have to get back to that book Murdoch paid him for.

I've read many articles writing about Johnson and Gove as if it's part of what people are voting for. I know very well it's not.

[Hobiejoe]

That's an achievement.

Thankyou

I now just have to write the entire Battle of Hastings and aftermath by the day after tomorrow.

Seems quite apt in a way, writing about a European power overcoming England.

The 1066 campaigns consisted of a Norse army under Hardrada being defeated by Harold Godwinson, a descendant of Norsemen, who in turn was defeated by William and his army. William and much of his army themselves being yet more descendants of Norsemen.

They got around a lot back then, Norsemen.

Naval power. Irritates the hell out of the Army and the RAF still haven't got over the Fleet Air Arm being first.

Took sprog2 to NE France for a weekend a quite few years ago on the spur of the moment, he was just over 18 months but even then we thought him unable to cope with travelling long distances, so while his mum, sister and grandad flew off to Sri Lanka for his uncle's wedding (although that's another story, although some of you might know it already - the one with the Tamil aeroplane and the suicide bomber and the text you receive saying "Don't worry, we're OK".)

We visited many lovely places, and many moving places. including Lutyen's magnificent memorial at Thiepval, on the Somme, a memorial to 72,246 dead who's bodies were never recovered or identified from that one battle, a memorial that when you stand within its huge brick arches, the limestone pediments of which are inscribed with the names of the lost, give an extraordinary feeling of being in a colossal, exalted space, as medieval builders well understood with their cathedrals, and yet it is at the same time open to the world. It did help that it was February, and mist, rather atmospherically, roiled through the arches.

I also recently made the metaphorical connection between the lives being inscribed on solid limestone and the construction above being individual, man made bricks, forged in man made fires.

Good bloke, Lutyens.

Bugger, forgot my original point, which seems somewhat inconsequential now, that William launched his invasion from the mouth of the Somme, and Charlie and I had great fun flying kites on the vast sandy beaches. As a sailor, though, using the Somme
estuary in what were basically Viking longboats was very brave - treacherous shallow channels and a not particularly favourable prevailing wind, and that was just leaving.

Ah, well, once a Viking, always a Viking. They're still here, most are still in the Lords.

[TR'sGhost]

Alternative scenario - Hardrada defeats Harold, and William still invaded from the South, and England ended up getting split between a Northern, Norse Kingdom and a Southern, Norman Kingdom...

Or Hardrada's delayed for whatever reason and sails up the Humber a week or a month after Godwinson was barely defeated by William. Whose army is now in a much worse state than the English were after Stamford Bridge and no immediate reinforcements available or money to hire them if they were. England now in turmoil with no government. Northern and Midlands Earls still wondering if they can put a further defence together and salvage something from the situation or even grab the throne for themselves.

Hardrada alone, or, from William's viewpoint much worse, a combined Northern Anglo-Dane/Norse army heads south, destroys the Normans somewhere in the Midlands and either puts Harald Hardrada on the throne or an English claimant who swears fealty to Hardrada. England retains its place amongst the Scandinavian lands, no "Norman Yoke" and even our language would be very different without all the mispronounced Norman French words. Though I suppose the Varangian Guard would have had to manage as best it could without the English exiles who migrated to Byzantium.

It's certainly a period ripe for historical fiction.

[citizenJA]

Wonderful posts tonight, thank you.
Sleep well.
love,
cJA

[Temulkar]

& my husband has just found 22 slugs. Most of them big fat ones - fattened on my cosmos seedlings.

Any good news ?

I've just broken 80,000 words in the novel I'm (co-)writing

That is always a good feeling, Im about 10k words into book 3 at the moment

[Temulkar]

Harold wanted to win, no question. If winning wasn't possible, death in battle was the best he could do.

Harold did better than OK, he almost defeated invasions at either end of the country. He made a few mistakes but nothing catastrophic. Both he and William were obviously very skilled generals. Harold was unlucky in losing both his brothers early on, which meant he couldn't afford to take any risks to take advantage of a partial Norman collapse. Even so, if he hadn't been hit by that arrow, it's likely the shield wall would have held and a draw for Harold was basically the same as a win.

Harold blew it, he should have sat in London and waited for William to come to him whilst the fyrd came in. A month later and his army would have been five times the size of the Normans. He just got panicked when William decided to burn his lands out in Wessex and advanced - against advice it should be added.

Turold the dwarf has always fascinated me in that battle. He's one of the few named figures on the Bayeux tapestry but we know next to nothing about him.

[TR'sGhost]

Yes, it's a novel. Historical, rather than Alt History or Historical Fantasy. Although given so little on the historical record of the 11th century, a much higher proportion has to be made up (or altered, when the historical record is clearly biased or exaggerated) than with later periods.

As to whether Harold wins... well, it depends on how you define victory. Although given that few people would define victory as being impaled in the eye, just about living to see your army routed leading to the inevitable fall of your country, before ending up getting hacked to pieces by a crowd of invading Normans... no, he doesn't win.

Could very easily have gone the other way though. From what we know of the battle it went on for a longer time than usual for the period, the English were in a strong position and the huscarls in particular regarded as the best infantry in Europe.

Norman panics that William had been killed turning into a rout, Hardrada turning up a week earlier giving the English longer to regroup and assemble in the south east or Hardrada not turning up at all, the less experienced over-enthusiastic English fyrd not pursuing retreating groups of Normans down the hill and getting cut to pieces, a lucky axe-stroke that dispatched William....

An English victory would have radically changed the course of European history. It's one of those fascinating "what ifs". No succession of English monarchs with land-holdings in France and claims to the French throne for a start.

Fascinating, sincerely. Can you recommend any authors for me to read for more information?

Wikipedia's as good a place as any to start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hastings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then follow whichever of the many links in the articles you feel like. It's a fascinating period, the English succession question of 1066 being a horribly complicated situation at a time when European politics and economics were pretty complex in themselves. Lots of cross-links, interaction and population shifts across a huge geographic area with the wandering Norse and English a common thread from the Black Sea to Ireland and Scandinavia to Sicily.

[TR'sGhost]

Will Brexit mean Gove and Boris running the country?

Only if they can command a majority in the House of Commons. Which would involve being rather more moderate than their current rhetoric suggests, I would have thought.

My husband mentioned earlier how Gove's future career looks a bit wobbly if "remain" win and personally I feel there is slightly more "danger" of him ending up out of government than in charge of it come the 24th. He might have to get back to that book Murdoch paid him for.

I'd have said a bit non-existent meself, at least until the next Referendum, if ever someone is so incredibly stupid to go through this again. Johnson won't have much to fall back on either.

It used to be said the Tories had "a strong instinct for self-preservation", meaning they wouldn't let factionalism tear them publicly apart to the point they couldn't be regarded as a party of government.

Cameron's already come very close indeed to entering history as the last Prime Minister of a united England/Wales and Scotland. And depending on what happens on Thursday he may get a second chance at playing that role. Not content with that, he now seems to be making a bid to be the Tory Prime Minister whose stewardship destroyed the Tories as a single, functioning party.

I bet he's seriously regretting the glib electoral promise that lifted the lid off the whole gruesome can of worms.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -to-see-gp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Overstretched doctors urge two-week absence before workers need to see GP