Thursday 23rd June 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:
North Wiltshire Tory MP James Gray (a passionate leave supporter) says if people vote to remain he will accept “the democratic will of the people”, but only if it is a “reasonable majority” suggestion around 60-40.

Are the Leave campaigners paving the way for the next wave of campaigning if they lose? (Politics Live, Guardian)
That's not very democratic, now, is it? Especially as I presume he was happy to accept the General Election result.

Does he want to change the status quo, leave, on less than that % ?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:32 pm

At least for once the pundits looking at the Sunderland result will have useful data.

Sunderland is predicted to lean slightly to Leave. A Remain vote there would be pretty good news for Remain.

Newcastle should be hot on Sunderland's heels and is predicted to be strongly Remain. A Leave vote there would be a triumph for Leave.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

Betfair figures on chances of winning are way down to 14% for Leave, 86% for Remain.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:46 pm

I'll be staying up for Sunderland but then off to bed, may or may not get up early, depending on how it looks later.

Re pens in the polling booth, many years ago when I was a trainee accountant I was told that it was more difficult to erase all traces of pencil than of pen.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:49 pm

Maybe tell them that a white pen is best of all !

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:55 pm

The awful thing is if you see someone using a pen, you know they've swallowed the lies and conspiracy theories hook, line and sinker, and nothing is going to convince them otherwise.

Someone Tweeted that there'd been reports of indignant voters saying it was true then, because there were pencils rather than pens in the voting booths. She wondered how often they'd voted in the past.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 1:56 pm

Off shopping now, in case I'm too knackered tomorrow.

Nice to see some peeps here who haven't been around for a while.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:09 pm

I voted at 06:20 (Sheffield Hallam, jewel of the South Riding

) & the polling station was already reasonably busy.
I haven't seen any 'out' posters locally, but a lot of remain posters in windows, including a few vote green/labour combinations & one previously liberal that looks to have changed to labour.

So from local area, you'd get the impression remain would win, but depressing thing is how quickly the mood varies from area to area, On bus to work I go through Tinsley, haven't seen any posters there, it's got a large asian population & hope they'd be for remain.
Work's in Rotherham, most people seem to be rabidly 'out', so expect the worst, there.
(Just been told that tv news has been avoiding any mention of immigration for last few weeks, to help get remain vote, hey ho.)

As for playlist

"I hate the white man" Roy Harper
"Patriotic Claptrap" Pete Morton
"Return to Yesterday" The Lilac Time
"Borderline" Chris De Burgh

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:
“I run a polling station and it is very noticeable how many voters today are bringing their own pens and even sharpies to register their vote rather than use the pencils provided in the booth. Worrying lack of trust in the counting system and I assume someone has put out some sort of rumour that votes made in pencil can be erased, which as you know is ridiculous. (Politics Live, Guardian)
We could have a new way of doing exit polls here. Support for "Out" being roughly measured by the number of imported writing implements.

I wouldn't trust them with anything sharper than a crayon

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

tinybgoat wrote:I voted at 06:20 (Sheffield Hallam, jewel of the South Riding ) & the polling station was already reasonably busy.
I haven't seen any 'out' posters locally, but a lot of remain posters in windows, including a few vote green/labour combinations & one previously liberal that looks to have changed to labour.

So from local area, you'd get the impression remain would win, but depressing thing is how quickly the mood varies from area to area, On bus to work I go through Tinsley, haven't seen any posters there, it's got a large asian population & hope they'd be for remain.
Work's in Rotherham, most people seem to be rabidly 'out', so expect the worst, there.
(Just been told that tv news has been avoiding any mention of immigration for last few weeks, to help get remain vote, hey ho.)

As for playlist

"I hate the white man" Roy Harper
"Patriotic Claptrap" Pete Morton
"Return to Yesterday" The Lilac Time
"Borderline" Chris De Burgh

I haven't seen a single poster for in or out in Bracknell. Edited to add. I bet I know what the majority will vote for though.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
“I run a polling station and it is very noticeable how many voters today are bringing their own pens and even sharpies to register their vote rather than use the pencils provided in the booth. Worrying lack of trust in the counting system and I assume someone has put out some sort of rumour that votes made in pencil can be erased, which as you know is ridiculous. (Politics Live, Guardian)
We could have a new way of doing exit polls here. Support for "Out" being roughly measured by the number of imported writing implements.
I wouldn't trust them with anything sharper than a crayon

Ooh. That's jogged my memory, didn't they use a more crayon like black marker in the old days?

The pencils now have very thick leads. No way could you erase it completely with a rubber.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:28 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36605899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK population grew by half a million last year to 65.1 million, according to the latest Office for National Statistics official estimate

.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:35 pm

Michael Fallon grovelling to Gani. Delicious.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:40 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote: We could have a new way of doing exit polls here. Support for "Out" being roughly measured by the number of imported writing implements.
I wouldn't trust them with anything sharper than a crayon
Ooh. That's jogged my memory, didn't they use a more crayon like black marker in the old days?

The pencils now have very thick leads. No way could you erase it completely with a rubber.

Googled, but all I could find said UK has always used pencils, did find this on Sheffield Forum though:

Originally Posted by barleycorn
/dons tin foil hat/
Actually, it doesn't matter who you vote for or what type of pen/pencil you use to make your mark as the victor has already been preselected and the appropriate number of ballet cards filled in accordingly. Yours ends up in the furnace, along with everybody else's.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

Googled, but all I could find said UK has always used pencils, did find this on Sheffield Forum though:

Originally Posted by barleycorn
/dons tin foil hat/
Actually, it doesn't matter who you vote for or what type of pen/pencil you use to make your mark as the victor has already been preselected and the appropriate number of ballet cards filled in accordingly. Yours ends up in the furnace, along with everybody else's.

Well, as someone who has frequently done vote counting at elections, as both counter and table supervisor, all I can say is that there are going to be thousands of people who would notice if anything like that took place, and that's before we count the public and television who will be there as witnesses.

Given the sheer scale of an election, if that were even physical possible, it would cost so much to actually execute, let alone keep under wraps, that there wouldn't be any rich, self-centred bastards in the country.

minch · Post by **minch** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:50 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
tinybgoat wrote: I wouldn't trust them with anything sharper than a crayon
Ooh. That's jogged my memory, didn't they use a more crayon like black marker in the old days?

The pencils now have very thick leads. No way could you erase it completely with a rubber.
Googled, but all I could find said UK has always used pencils, did find this on Sheffield Forum though:

Originally Posted by barleycorn
/dons tin foil hat/
Actually, it doesn't matter who you vote for or what type of pen/pencil you use to make your mark as the victor has already been preselected and the appropriate number of ballet cards filled in accordingly. Yours ends up in the furnace, along with everybody else's.

I'm sure that just before they are burnt they are examined to make a note (using the number on the back) of all the 'leavers' so MI5 can put them under 24hour surveillance.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:57 pm

Cars are submerged and some polling stations are closing as flooding affects London and the South East.

Two polling stations in Kingston and another in Barking closed after 40mm (1.5in) of rain fell in some areas.

Several people have been rescued by boat as London Fire Brigade said it had attended more than 400 incidents, including flooded premises and properties hit by lightning. (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's absolutely torrential here.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 2:59 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Cars are submerged and some polling stations are closing as flooding affects London and the South East.

Two polling stations in Kingston and another in Barking closed after 40mm (1.5in) of rain fell in some areas.

Several people have been rescued by boat as London Fire Brigade said it had attended more than 400 incidents, including flooded premises and properties hit by lightning. (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's absolutely torrential here.

Beautiful weather here, has been all day.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:06 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Cars are submerged and some polling stations are closing as flooding affects London and the South East.

Two polling stations in Kingston and another in Barking closed after 40mm (1.5in) of rain fell in some areas.

Several people have been rescued by boat as London Fire Brigade said it had attended more than 400 incidents, including flooded premises and properties hit by lightning. (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's absolutely torrential here.

Dry here for the moment but very hot and sticky still.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:09 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Cars are submerged and some polling stations are closing as flooding affects London and the South East.

Two polling stations in Kingston and another in Barking closed after 40mm (1.5in) of rain fell in some areas.

Several people have been rescued by boat as London Fire Brigade said it had attended more than 400 incidents, including flooded premises and properties hit by lightning. (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's absolutely torrential here.
Beautiful weather here, has been all day.

Lovely here too - I'd take the rain for you, PorFavor, if I could exchange the weather. I love rain, generally speaking, more than
most people, I think. Walking in the rain is lovely, even in urban areas, mostly.

I don't normally have to wear a suit these days. If an employer wants starched, pressed and coiffed, send 'round the Employee Transportation Bus.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:15 pm

Walking in the rain used to be one of my pleasures, too. (Although wearing specs made it a bit of a pain.)

Anyway, I hope the forced closure of some polling stations doesn't throw a spanner in the works (although I wouldn't be surprised, and I'd also be sympathetic to all voters affected, if it did).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:21 pm

So. For the radiology team tomorrow. A huge Victoria sponge, filled with home made raspberry jam and dairy cream.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

TES ‏@tes 4m4 minutes ago

National teachers strike on July 5, after 91.7% back action in NUT ballot over pay & conditions. Full story http://ow.ly/ci2T301yVHN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:48 pm

: Labour Remain_6.jpg (31.66 KiB) Viewed 5366 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:53 pm

: Labour Remain14.jpg (58.31 KiB) Viewed 5362 times

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 3:54 pm

From Facebook.
Martin Shaw
June 21 at 6:18pm

Unlike everyone else, who seemingly overnight has become a champion of European legislation and a bastion of the legalities of immigration, I genuinely know fuck all about politics.
Honestly. Can't even tell you the difference between labour, conservatives or the other ones. Is it Lib dems? I don't know what they do. Tories are cunts though... That's literally the extent of my knowledge.
It just doesn't interest me because, and I'm aware that this is painfully apathetic and stupid, but it's boring and I don't see how any of it's actually set up to help me. If I was a bank or building society or a business that operated on the global market or just a cunt who went to Eton and fancied making all my pig diddling mates peers or something then yeah, I'd give more of a shit. But I'm not. I'm just a bloke who works in a call centre 8 hours a day and whether we're in or out of Europe I'll still have £68 pound a month to pay for bus fares. I'm trapped in renting so I couldn't give less of a shit about "community" because I'm not really part of one because I might move again in 6 month so what's point? I'll still be skint either way, the concept of owning a house will remain a sick joke and I'll still have to work until I'm a billion and 30 just to retire on the £8.47 I've got saved up in my work pension (yes I'm aware all of these are political points... Irony's funny, isn't it?) but governments aren't set up for people like me... They're set up for people who are either tragically, tragically poor or people who are almost belligerently rich. Even if we save money by coming out, who gives a shit? What, we're suddenly going to start looking after old folk and buying hospitals are we? Wont we need the four food banks in Leeds anymore? You talk actual piss. Any money saved will go into buying more pigs or moats for duck houses.

The point for me is this though; A university professor of 12 years, what has got an actual PHD, specialising in European constitutional law and the relationship between the EU and its member states, specifically the UK, the single market and the free movement of people has said its a fucking shit idea to leave the EU.
Surely that's enough then? Let's agree with him, surely? He probably knows what's chong and what's not chong.
I mean I know you've got a BTEC in sports science and, yeah... sure, your lass has got her level 1 hairdressing certificate and you both went to Tossa De Mar once for holiday but his points seem to come across better than yours somehow. Like, his arguments are built around solid premises and formulated on numbers and research and shit whereas yours are like "Yeah well The Sun says all black people are wankers, so...".

The best way I can think of it is in terms of the biscuit club at work. Everybody pays in and everybody gets nice biscuits. Sure you can get your own biscuits if you want but it's a lot of fucking about and you'll only have to share them anyway. What, are you gonna legitimately eat them all to yourself in an office are you Sharon? Right well that's why you wear sports socks and can't find a husband. Yeah, not everyone gets the biscuits they want all the time but if your choice is shit biscuits sometimes or no biscuits ever then it's a fucking no brainer. What if you want help to get biscuits but nobody cares because they're sorted for Jaffas now? What about your relationship with people who are still in biscuit club? You think they'll be happy with you tapping Hob Nobs off them everyday because you forgot to go to Jacksons at the weekend? Get to fuck. "Oh no, loads of new people want to join in with biscuit club now!" So? More people means more / better biscuits. Yeah you might have to share more but what are you, 5? If you don't want to share biscuits then fuck off back to Russia you pinko commie swine. Plus, why do you think they WANT to join? It's because these biscuits are brilliant and they haven't got any. Sometimes people do Ramadan and can't eat biscuits while the suns up... Who gives a shit? Don't have biscuits then. It's ok... Just have them later. Take them home for when suns gone down for all I care. And yeah, some people try and blag it... They don't pay what they should or they eat more than you but you don't just fuck biscuits off all together because of a couple of dickheads. Grow up you babies. "He hasn't paid for biscuits and by rights he's eating my property!". Yeah... Jason's not paying this week because he's got dick cancer and he's got better things to worry about. Let him have a biscuit you tight bastard. Fuck me. Plus his wife's got alopecia. Difficult home life mate. Give him a biscuit while he sorts his head out.

I'm just gonna go with the PHD bloke to be honest because he's smarter than everyone else and I fucking love biscuits me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:01 pm

I roll those flyers carefully and bind each with a red ribbon. Arrows fitted with a hollowed chamber, safely blunted with biodegradable foam
and aerodynamic contouring allow me to sail these off into the neighbourhood from the top of our building. I think it's popular.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:02 pm

~~This is the first time I've tried leafleting this way.~~

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:This is the first time I've tried leafleting this way.

If you ask Oliver Queen nicely, he'd bring his own bow, that way you could cover a wider area.

Edited 1 time: removed an importunate comma

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:07 pm

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/gover ... _1_4581253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government blocks plans for new Ravenswood affordable homes which were approved by Ipswich Borough Council

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:13 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:In maybe their first significant polling intervention since last year's GE, Populus are saying 55-45 to stay in.
That one is interesting because it is online. Has anybody worked out if the (I think 2 million) expats are polled. I believe they aren't (Gib is included), they will break very heavily remain.

They aren't. Northern Ireland is not polled either, and that breaks nearly 2/3rds for Remain.

Vote Remain.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:16 pm

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:22 pm

I was joking about leafleting with bows and arrows. I'm not sending projectiles out the window or anywhere else.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 4:41 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:

The Control of Fly-posting: a Good Practice Guide
November 2000

"This Good Practice Guide was commissioned by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions in 1999. The
research would not have been possible without the willing co-operation of local authorities (contacts and addresses are listed
in Appendix E), the Outdoor Advertising Association, Tidy Britain Group and the Association of Town Centre Management."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 156909.pdf

These are domestic laws illegal fly-posters are trifling with. Keep it tidy and legal, people.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:00 pm

Still chucking it down here. (In case you were wondering. And, for that matter, even in the unlikely event that you weren't.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/ ... n-and-crew" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Crossword blog: a one-off puzzle from Boatman and Crew

This week’s post is a one-off puzzle created by a crew captained by the Guardian setter Boatman (you can get inside his head by reading our Q&A with him).

It’s a PDF, which you can download and print here.

We’ll be back once you have all arrived at an answer.

Use a pencil.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:04 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/ ... n-and-crew

Crossword blog: a one-off puzzle from Boatman and Crew

This week’s post is a one-off puzzle created by a crew captained by the Guardian setter Boatman (you can get inside his head by reading our Q&A with him).

It’s a PDF, which you can download and print here.

We’ll be back once you have all arrived at an answer.

Use a pencil.

(My bold)

Ha!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:05 pm

Raining hard. Again. Like a cow peeing on a flat rock...

And my %$$^&££"!&^ boiler is leaking again and no hot water. Only had it fixed last autumn.

Well that's it! Another good reason for moving. The bloody thing will bankrupt us if we stay any longer. The guy who's buying can sort it out. He's a plumber. I hope he takes a big hammer to it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:07 pm

This lyric from Nick Drake's wonderful River Man just popped into my head

Betty said she prayed today
For the sky to blow away
Or maybe stay
She wasn’t sure

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:20 pm

I have to say I'm not feeling very confident about Leave's chances in this referendum. Apparently writing BREXIT! on your ballot invalidates the vote. Who knew?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:22 pm

Guardian crossword message,well known ruse.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:28 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I have to say I'm not feeling very confident about Leave's chances in this referendum. Apparently writing BREXIT! on your ballot invalidates the vote. Who knew?
SET MY PEOPLE FREE BORIS! apparently doesn't work either

Say it loud, say it proud. Preferably several times on your ballot paper. In ink. Don't forget to do it in ink.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:30 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I have to say I'm not feeling very confident about Leave's chances in this referendum. Apparently writing BREXIT! on your ballot invalidates the vote. Who knew?
SET MY PEOPLE FREE BORIS! apparently doesn't work either

Confidence is everything, guys, but let's not going tempting fate until the votes are counted. No hubris.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:31 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 96926.html

I don't know that I've ever felt the level of joy that this man is feeling. But I got close in Euro '96, and at that goal giggs scored in the '99 FA cup semi-final replay https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... a-cup-goal

Brought to you by TinyClanger's off-piste trivialata

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:34 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... s-8267019?

I like this.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:36 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I have to say I'm not feeling very confident about Leave's chances in this referendum. Apparently writing BREXIT! on your ballot invalidates the vote. Who knew?
SET MY PEOPLE FREE BORIS! apparently doesn't work either
Confidence is everything, guys, but let's not going tempting fate until the votes are counted. No hubris.

Don't deny me my usual election night pattern of light-headed, hopeful expectancy followed by crushing "oh no" disappointment at having backed the losing side again, again. It's become a recurring tradition for me. Perhaps I should stop voting for the Greens.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:39 pm

My internet is hideously slow. Hope it'll be better at 4am.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:40 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 96926.html

I don't know that I've ever felt the level of joy that this man is feeling. But I got close in Euro '96, and at that goal giggs scored in the '99 FA cup semi-final replay https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... a-cup-goal

Brought to you by TinyClanger's off-piste trivialata

I remember watching that semi-final at my Uncle's, not all that long after he'd suffered a heart attack and wasn't to be disturbed by loud noises, so imagine having to celebrate a goal like THAT is near silence.

And I still remember that, up to that very moment, Giggs had been playing utter sh*te and do nothing good at all...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:41 pm

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 5:44 pm

Not that I'm trying to influence anyone who hasn't voted.