Thursday 23rd June 2016

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 10:43 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Leave Tories in desperate bid to save their own skins by crawling to the PM...

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They'll hang on kicking and screaming to the bitter end. I guarantee there won't be many doing the decent thing.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 10:46 pm

Oh ffs. Dimbledrone setting the, "it's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault" tone already.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 10:53 pm

indeed. a snoring emoticon would be much appreciated.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 10:55 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So, what price UKIP?

I said a long time ago that they're effectively dead whichever way the vote goes. People must realise this is a once in a lifetime vote - what's their purpose if (i) Leave win and they've got their wish or (ii) we Remain and they have no chance of getting what they want?

Thoughts?

Does UKIP have any organisational structure at all? Meetings?

The Labour party has meetings, rules and organisational structure. The Labour party meetings I've gone to can get opaque
and frankly, dismaying. Someone pops up, invokes a rule and legitimately takes all the biscuits off the table, for example.
The rest of us look at each other ashamed we didn't memorise the Labour party rule book failing to secure our share of
the biscuits.

Are all Labour party meetings like this?

I know some aren't, our more local meetings are less governed by invocations of rules. Rules are essential though.
Without rules, meetings can become unwieldy and counter-productive. Too many biscuits get eaten by all leaving
none for later. However, we're all able to understand what's going on during those less formal meetings.

If procedure and rules aren't clearly and quickly learned by members who're likely working a full-time job and raising
family, it's alienating them. That's not good because those more formal meetings are where people are elected to posts
with responsibility, for example. As many members as possible should feel able to attend and get acknowledged. If
people wander away confused about what happened in a meeting, they're not likely going to come back.

Political parties with less structure, fewer rules and simpler messages may appeal to disaffected people confused and
feeling left out.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 10:57 pm

Apparently, according to Dimbleby, Farage has now un-thrown in the towel, an action so ludicrous no one has ever come up with a phrase for it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:00 pm

UKIP or some other far-right wing political incarnation will find another single issue or few series of issues to rally alienated people around them.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:02 pm

My god!!!!! Dimbleby is talking about a split in the Tory party. Admittedly it was about 5 seconds, before he switched it to Labour.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:07 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Apparently, according to Dimbleby, Farage has now un-thrown in the towel, an action so ludicrous no one has ever come up with a phrase for it.
Pulled out the towel?

"Unconceded" seems to be the BBC's preferred choice. What a plonker.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:07 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Have had an idea. Everyone who at heart finds the concept of a shared world a threatening concept (given we are a social species) can go pioneer extreme selfishness in a different galaxy leaving the rest of us can get on with it here.

Win: Win
Whoa, whoa...it's not right to foist uncooperative life forms onto another galaxy.
Many apologies. You are right. And yet consistently more pleasant (in a good way) than I will ever be.

Would I push the button rocketing them into another galaxy? I don't know. Words are easy. When action or non-action are called for, will I do what is right or will I buckle and do what's expedient? I don't know.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:08 pm

OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:09 pm

~~Thick Fuck~~ Grayling waffling on now.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:09 pm

Is Laura K there yet?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:09 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I see after weeks of everyone agreeing that Cameron was toast if there was a leave vote, or even a narrow remain vote, certain Tories are piling up the sandbags around him. I shouldn't be surprised, as I always felt he would cling on for grim death, but the rallying round is less expected. Given that all leavers will be furious with Cameron, and about half the remainers, I can't see how he can possibly expect to stay in role. He has no decency or sense of decorum, of course.

If leave wins he will quit anyway. Why would you implement a stunningly stupid economic policy.

Let Boris fuck up the country, he will then have nowhere to hide.

If Remain wins the Brexit mob don't have the votes.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:10 pm

refitman wrote:My god!!!!! Dimbleby is talking about a split in the Tory party. Admittedly it was about 5 seconds, before he switched it to Labour.

An opened portal created through which substance-of-we-feeling pours through in gushers from Canopus!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:11 pm

refitman wrote:~~Thick Fuck~~ Grayling waffling on now.

Now listen I'm bed on the computer and you mustn't make me laugh, because it'll disturb Mr Ohso.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:11 pm

Despite the interesting Winnie the Pooh diversion, I really have to get to bed, so I'll say goodnight now. Grayling already has me starting to nod off a little......zzzzzzzz.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I see after weeks of everyone agreeing that Cameron was toast if there was a leave vote, or even a narrow remain vote, certain Tories are piling up the sandbags around him. I shouldn't be surprised, as I always felt he would cling on for grim death, but the rallying round is less expected. Given that all leavers will be furious with Cameron, and about half the remainers, I can't see how he can possibly expect to stay in role. He has no decency or sense of decorum, of course.

They're covering their backs in the hope of doing well out of whatever happens, amd maybe hoping to avoid Cameron coming after them if Boris, Gove or whoever decides the time is not yet right or can't muster the necessary support for a coup.

Tories pledging their undying support etc. means very little. They all swore by Margaret Thatcher, second greatest PM of all time etc. right up to when one after another they went to her office told her to go and go now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:13 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?

They both love honey.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:14 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:Did anyone else notice how IDS seemed to be advocating voting reform?

Yes, his constituency has probably been eliminated.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:14 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Is Laura K there yet?

Yup

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:Despite the interesting Winnie the Pooh diversion, I really have to get to bed, so I'll say goodnight now. Grayling already has me starting to nod off a little......zzzzzzzz.

Goodnight, Willow904!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:15 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I see after weeks of everyone agreeing that Cameron was toast if there was a leave vote, or even a narrow remain vote, certain Tories are piling up the sandbags around him. I shouldn't be surprised, as I always felt he would cling on for grim death, but the rallying round is less expected. Given that all leavers will be furious with Cameron, and about half the remainers, I can't see how he can possibly expect to stay in role. He has no decency or sense of decorum, of course.
If leave wins he will quit anyway. Why would you implement a stunningly stupid economic policy.

Let Boris fuck up the country, he will then have nowhere to hide.

If Remain wins the Brexit mob don't have the votes.

I disagree. Tories, when it comes to losing power and their lucrative expense accounts, will rally round - as we're beginning to see - and present a solid front even if they are seething inside. They won't risk a meltdown.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:16 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?

Might it be something they share with Jack the Ripper and Attila the Hun?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:17 pm

Gibralter may declare first,they have an hour advantage of course.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:20 pm

Villiers-instinct Remain has won.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:20 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I haven't switched the TV on yet. Any recommendations on whether Dimbledrone or Pestilence is the better of the two options on offer? Or are channel 4 doing something?
I have Dimbleby on with the sound off.
Very wise. Do you have the cricket on the radio instead

Hopes and aspirations following the result:

1. Remain wins by 10 points but not by too much more than that
2. Begrudging remain vote leads to the fall of Cameron and infighting so bad in the Tory Party, an election is forced
3. Labour under Corbyn wins
4. Farage fails to win a seat again. At long last burgers off into oblivion. For real this time.
5. Result triggers demands for greater, socially democratic reforms of the EU. And they actually happen.
6. Neoliberalism across Europe is put back into its box, and for good.

Edited to add the quote wot I forgot.

Excellent, yes.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:21 pm

Does anyone else miss Peter Snow's plain old swingometer?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:22 pm

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:23 pm

HindleA wrote:Yes.

Me too. It was corny, but livened up the proceedings no end.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:24 pm

Christ, for the first time ever we are all hoping DFH is right.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:25 pm

Seems unlikely

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 5m5 minutes ago
Unconfirmed report that Remain have won in Sunderland - Here's why, if true, that points to good Remain nationwide -

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:25 pm

citizenJA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?
They both love honey.

good try but no

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:26 pm

Rebecca wrote:Evening all.
Well,thank the lord it's over.
I am now going to get to bed,once I've sorted the pets out,good luck to anybody staying up for the results.
6a.m and I shall make coffee and read the results on ftn.
Some people seem to think that remain have won the day,but I shall just wait and see.And not even hope.

Goodnight, Rebecca! Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:27 pm

“Revulsion of leave tactics” is probably a reference to Nigel Farage’s “Breaking Point” poster, which may explain why people in the Vote Leave camp (which is not linked to Ukip) are so angry with Farage. (See 10.55pm.)

Last Updated: 23:09 BST Thursday, 23 June 2016
10m ago Josh Halliday

ATL at the graun.

Revulsion at the exact same tactics the Vote Leave team adopted themselves, bar a poster?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:28 pm

mbc1955 wrote:Ok, home from work, all over bar the shouting.

An episode of 'Person of Interest'. Alarm set for 6.00am, with fingers crossed. First counseling session at 10.00am so of course bags of paranoia about getting there on time.

Thank you everyone for helping me get through the day.

Goodnight!

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:30 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:Yes.
Me too. It was corny, but livened up the proceedings no end.

Jeremy Vine just seems to overcomplicate things/

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Whoa, whoa...it's not right to foist uncooperative life forms onto another galaxy.
Many apologies. You are right. And yet consistently more pleasant (in a good way) than I will ever be.
Would I push the button rocketing them into another galaxy? I don't know. Words are easy. When action or non-action are called for, will I do what is right or will I buckle and do what's expedient? I don't know.

Don't suppose we could crowdsource a big enough rocket so you could find out.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:30 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?
Might it be something they share with Jack the Ripper and Attila the Hun?

hmmm

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:31 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
“Revulsion of leave tactics” is probably a reference to Nigel Farage’s “Breaking Point” poster, which may explain why people in the Vote Leave camp (which is not linked to Ukip) are so angry with Farage. (See 10.55pm.)

Last Updated: 23:09 BST Thursday, 23 June 2016
10m ago Josh Halliday
ATL at the graun.

Revulsion at the exact same tactics the Vote Leave team adopted themselves, bar a poster?

Kate Hooey was poo-pooing the poster. Got the time it had been revealed wrong, said it had been around for weeks and no-one had complained.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:37 pm

Gibraltar

19,332 remain
823 leave

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Christ, for the first time ever we are all hoping DFH is right.
Even a broken clock...

Since he was sacked by the Torygraph I've been blissfully unaware of pretty much everything he's said.

I rather miss him, always good to know how the one remaining David Miliband fan is thinking.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:40 pm

Britain Elects
‏@britainelects
#EUref: On how party supporters voted (Remain/Leave):

CON: 43/57
LAB: 69/31
LDEM: 73/27
UKIP: 7/93
(via YouGov)

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:40 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?

Neither of them would eat bacon?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:41 pm

Normans/rest of us 43/57

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:41 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I see after weeks of everyone agreeing that Cameron was toast if there was a leave vote, or even a narrow remain vote, certain Tories are piling up the sandbags around him. I shouldn't be surprised, as I always felt he would cling on for grim death, but the rallying round is less expected. Given that all leavers will be furious with Cameron, and about half the remainers, I can't see how he can possibly expect to stay in role. He has no decency or sense of decorum, of course.

I said here the other day that I thought that they would try going down this road. Self-preservation is the Conservatives' trump card. I just hope that it won't work out for them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:42 pm

EU referendum live results — tracker

[Cartoon image Dave Cameron] - Remain [awaiting results]-------------[Cartoon image Boris Johnson] - Leave [awaiting results]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... d-analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The good thing about this format (first adopted with the Khan and Goldsmith Mayoral election?) is no fussy externals call
attention from the cartoons and results. That's also what's bad about the format. Silly cartoons - no one is voting for Boris
Johnson or Dave Cameron, this is just make-believe. EU referendum - the UK remain in the EU or no? That's the only
question the electorate are asked to answer.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:42 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:OK. We have some time to kill so:

What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?
Neither of them would eat bacon?

A welcome intervention and I have to confess to a degree of ignorance, but the answer is: no

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:43 pm

nuttyd ‏@nuttyd50 16m16 minutes ago

BBC REFERENDUM: er um like good thing that LauraK is on our #Remain side innit ? She's in a bitch of a mood

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:44 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:indeed. a snoring emoticon would be much appreciated.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 23 Jun, 2016 11:46 pm

citizenJA wrote:
EU referendum live results — tracker

[Cartoon image Dave Cameron] - Remain [awaiting results]-------------[Cartoon image Boris Johnson] - Leave [awaiting results]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... d-analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The good thing about this format (first adopted with the Khan and Goldsmith Mayoral election?) is that's no fussy externals call
attention from the cartoons. That's also what's bad about the format. Just silly cartoons - no one is voting for Boris Johnson or
Dave Cameron, this is just make-believe. EU referendum - the UK remain in the EU or no? That's the only question
the electorate are asked to answer.

But I'm afraid a lot of people have treated it more like a general election and wanting to see those leading Remain or Leave get a bloody nose. I did it too. I voted on personalities.