Friday 24th June 2016

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:25 am

EU president of the EU Commission Jean-Claude Juncker says there will be no re-negotiation on Britain’s membership of the EU.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:29 am

PorFavor wrote:Am I misreading things or does it appear to be the case that the EU isn't desperately interested in having "informal discussions" with us? Don't they just want us to cut to the chase? I get the impression that tea and cucumber sandwiches aren't on their list of things to do.

Yes. They're seriously peeved. Uncertainty punishes them too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:30 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:2020 climate and emissions targets

I know.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:33 am

http://www.theweek.co.uk/73896/london-i ... rom-the-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

time for the new European state, the United Republic of the British Isles.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:33 am

Nicola Sturgeon preparing the ground for a second Scottish Independence referendum so that Scotland is ready for it should the need arise (which it probably will). (BBC TV News)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:34 am

Sturgeon says she intends to explore all means possible of maintaining Scotland’s place in the EU. She has called for an urgent meeting with the President of the European Commission.

Sturgeon says she has talked to London Mayor Sadiq Khan who shares her views about London’s place in the EU.

Guardian Live

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:34 am

What shall I say to this guy on the way to work?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:35 am

I think Boris was expecting a narrow win for "in" giving him half a chance of walzing into number 10 as the champion of the disappointed dispossessed. Brexit doesn't really work for him, does it? I expect the Tory party will rally found a 'safe pair of hands' like May (ha!) or Hammond (oh dear!).

Sturgeon is currently giving a statesmanlike speech which I really can't be bothered to listen to.

I haven't heard anything useful or inspiring from Labour yet.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:35 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:What shall I say to this guy on the way to work?

"At least you knew how to hold a referendum and get the result you wanted?"

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:41 am

Daily Male is pleased Beryl " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:41 am

Talking from Brussels after an emergency meeting with EU leaders, Mr Juncker told Britain the other 27 member states wanted to negotiate its exit plan “as soon as possible, however painful this process will be”.

French President François Hollande has also said Paris wants the Britain to start its exit package negotiations with the EU “as soon as possible”.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683042 ... ain-leaves

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:46 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Talking from Brussels after an emergency meeting with EU leaders, Mr Juncker told Britain the other 27 member states wanted to negotiate its exit plan “as soon as possible, however painful this process will be”.

French President François Hollande has also said Paris wants the Britain to start its exit package negotiations with the EU “as soon as possible”.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683042 ... ain-leaves

Fair enough from them.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:46 am

Leave say tanking sterling not their fault
http://qz.com/715702/as-markets-around- ... eir-fault/

FACT FREE BRITAIN (soon to be FACT FREE ENGLAND AND WALES)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:46 am

http://www.independentliving.co.uk/brex ... ty-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit consequences for disability rights

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:47 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:What shall I say to this guy on the way to work?
"At least you knew how to hold a referendum and get the result you wanted?"

The clue is in the massive support for "leave" just a few years ago during the Euro crisis, something Cameron should have considered when deciding to hold a referendum in which he supported "remain". This is why he is a very stupid man and why it is wrong to blame Labour in any way, as they refused to put an EU ref in their manifesto, even though doing so almost certainly cost them votes in the last election. I have always found Corbyn underwhelming and he was underwhelming in this campaign, however, he played a very poor hand as well as he could, undoubtedly convinced a few Labour waverers to vote "remain" and really isn't in any way responsible for this result. The billionaire newspaper owners have won. We have been brought to near ruin by decades of drip, drip, anti-immigrant propaganda in our overwhelmingly right-wing press. I am still grateful to Ed Miliband for trying to stand up to them and the toxic grip they have on this country, despite his ultimate failure to win the GE against some of the most hostile media coverage I have ever witnessed. He's still my champion. He has been right on so many levels.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:50 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:All is not lost? This result is very likely to cost a very large number of people at my workplace their jobs in the short and long run. And we've just gone through a round of redundancies because of the prior cuts by the Tories. The government is never going to be able to replace the funding we're going to lose within the next couple of years as grants run their course and are not renewed. And this government has shown no interest in even maintaining the funding we already get from the UK, never mind the EU.

But, "freedom!" (waves flag dispiritedly prior to being eviscerated as part of the hanging, drawing and quartering). Yay.

I know "all is not lost" was a bit flippant - I'm trying to cheer myself up. And failing.

Thomas Hemingford just Tweeted that his friend has lost his job this morning - along with 34 others in his workplace.
There will be more, I have no doubt.
What also worries me is that we have many young people who want to work abroad, and now thy may be prevented from doing so.

Cornwall County Council have asked for assurances from ministers that the promise (from the Leave campaign) that Cornwall will continue to get funding for agreed projects/support etc. will be the same as that already allocated by the EU but as yet not paid.
Cornwall has had £60 Million PA for the last 10 years, and the council wants an assurance that this will continue somehow....
good luck with that.

Carwyn Jones has stated that he respects the vote, and will do his best for all Welsh people in the coming negotiations - he wants a place at the negotiating table, and quite right too. He takes the view that people who feared job insecurity, housing problems, etc. believed what they were told about immigration being the issue; and the blame for all these problems is not immigration but the Westminster government.

In just a few hours, Carney has set aside £250 Billion to prop up the pound. God only knows what all this is going to cost in money, jobs, homes, everything.
I'm also very concerned now about the NHS, education, social security, and especially justice. I suspect there'll be a bonfire of workers' rights and green initiatives.

RebeccaRiots - please come and post here. I'd love to know what you're thinking, especially in green things where I lack knowledge.
(I'll understand if you feel you can't - but I am missing you and I bet I'm not alone)

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:50 am

For some reason Stanley Johnson is on TV now. I bet that every time he looks at Boris he wishes he'd committed the solitary sin of Onan instead.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:52 am

petition exceeded 100,000 (for what it's worth)

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:53 am

So today is my birthday and I have received the extremes of nasty shocks and pleasant surprises in the last few hours.

Congratulations to those who have "got their country back" but I have to say that today and for the immediate future it is a country I no longer like or recognise.

I despair at the possibility of Prime Minister Johnson and President Trump in a few months time.

On the debate regarding Jeremy Corbyn.

My own view is that he played this campaign pretty well and agreed with his decision not to share a platform with our late unlamented leader. Frankly how could you trust him not to follow his Bullingdon instincts and s..t on Corbyn from a great height after he had outlived his usefulness. Look at his treatment of erstwhile friends such as Clegg at the 2015 election and Gordon Brown after he rescued the Independence campaign.

In addition I think, whilst some in the media, tory party and the PLP are complaining of his performance, his honest (you could I suppose argue too honest) approach that the EU has its faults but on balance (7.5/10) its better to be in the tent than whinging from outside resonated with some who objected to Project Fear. I know that the reluctant inner approach chimed with a few waverers including me.

So to the future.

I have never been really sure that even JC thought he was Prime Minister material but wanted an opportunity to change the party back nearer to its roots away from the New Labour years. The problem all along has been the disconnect between the largely New Labour MPs and the grassroots. This issue has to be resolved before there is any thought of going forward. So reluctantly, because I do like Corbyn, it may be time for a leadership challenge in the hope that an attractive, credible candidate (others with more intimate knowledge of the party will have a better view of who that could be) who will more readily reflect the views of the membership (and erstwhile Labour voters) comes into the fray.

The one thing we must never forget midst the gloom of these days is that they are not popular and their biggest electoral asset in Cameron is no more. So now may be the time to take the fight to them.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:53 am

Well, well...I wrote about an academy trust back last year that seemed to have a very odd geographical spread and seemed not to know what to do to improve their schools and said:

The Learning Schools Trust still has one other school which is in Northampton - 80 miles away. The really odd fact about this one is that this was a converter academy that was - and still is - rated as Good.

You have to wonder why a Good school thought it necessary to convert to an academy status and join a trust that was very small and nowhere near it geographically. Given the DfE's reluctance to disclose anything, I doubt we'll ever know.

One thing is certain though - Policy Exchange's cheerleading of Kunskapsskolan certainly didn't result in anything spectacular - only some bad decisions by the DfE, indifferent performance by the trust, and a school which must be wondering where its future lies.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=693" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And today...

EXCLUSIVE: Swedish-inspired Learning Schools Trust can’t keep up

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/swedish-compan ... h-schools/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An academy trust at the forefront of the Swedish free school model much admired by Michael Gove will wind up later this year, Schools Week can reveal.

The Learning Schools Trust was set up in 2010 as the UK charitable arm of Kunskapsskolan, a private firm that runs schools in Sweden.

One of the first Swedish school companies to enter the UK state sector it reportedly boasted former education secretary Gove as a “huge admirer”.

Sweden’s model of state-funded, independently managed schools is said to have formed the blueprint for the Conservative government’s reforms.

But the Learning Schools Trust will cease operation in September when its three schools, two in London and one in Milton Keynes, will form new multi-academy trusts with local schools. It already relinquished a fourth school last year.

Some of this stuff is really obvious yet the DfE keep making really stupid decisions.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:57 am

Boris Johnson - no rush to the negotiating table, everyone knows just how much these froggies, dagos and huns need us, we can dictate terms.

The EU - get your asses in here now, we want you off the premises by dawn.

Who'd have thought it?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:01 pm

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/can-bristo ... tory.html?
Bristol talking about devolution of power

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:02 pm

Doesn't George Osborne have anything to say about the financial meltdown?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:03 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Talking from Brussels after an emergency meeting with EU leaders, Mr Juncker told Britain the other 27 member states wanted to negotiate its exit plan “as soon as possible, however painful this process will be”.

French President François Hollande has also said Paris wants the Britain to start its exit package negotiations with the EU “as soon as possible”.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683042 ... ain-leaves
Fair enough from them.

Indeed.

I'm not surprised they want rid of us pronto now that the Great British Public have expressed a wish to leave. (Well, only just.......)

The leading EU people and heads of state always seemed to me to just tolerate Cameron and his antics. They were certainly less than impressed with his negotiations (which failed) and the lies afterwards about the rebate. Some of them even laughed at him.

The UK has often pleaded for - and got - "special" treatment, yet it's the first to moan and groan given any opportunity. I daresay there are quite a few EU leaders who won't be sorry to see the back of us, and I am expecting some of them to be difficult with us.
Considering how much co-operation we have been given, this must seem like a slap in the face to some EU people.

I am now wondering, if the French are pressing on quickly, what will happen to all those refugees and migrants holed up in France who want to come here? I realise there aren't all that many when compared to the millions displaced and all over Europe, but some of those Little Englanders down there on the coast might be in for a shock....

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:03 pm

My Downs Syndrome daughter surprised me the other day by pointing at the picture at the top of AS Blog with the words David Cameron, Prime Minister. I naturally congratulated her knowledge but refrained from explaining what he was responsible for. Why sour her worldview with my vitriol?

My three year old granddaughter also knows David Cameron by name and often speaks of him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:13 pm

Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:15 pm

PorFavor wrote:Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)

Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:17 pm

And yet Cameron doesn't even have to explain himself to journos

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:18 pm

One of Nigel's decent people speaks:

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TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:21 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Leave say tanking sterling not their fault
http://qz.com/715702/as-markets-around- ... eir-fault/

FACT FREE BRITAIN (soon to be FACT FREE ENGLAND AND WALES)

Nothing's ever Farrage's fault. Or Leave's. Or Johnson's.

If the Spanish send the expat pensioners packing, that's Spain's fault.
If the UK faces import tarrifs into the EU, that's the EU's fault.
If the pound collapses (and it has) then that's the fault of the money markets.
If stocks and shares plummet (and they have) that's shareholder's fault.
If the Tory jibe of "there's no money left" comes true (and it has) that's really a very good thing.
If employers leave the UK, that's the employer's fault.
And so on and on and on ad nauseum.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:22 pm

Thank God for Mark Carney. Someone has to be in charge. It used to be civil servants, but the Tories replaced them all with useless SpAds.

Italy regularly runs itself without the input of politicians surprisingly well for surprisingly long periods of time. You could almost say it was the secret to their success, but I personally feel uneasy bring rudderless. Who am I supposed to throw eggs at when things go wrong?

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:23 pm

yahyah wrote:It wasn't as bad as this after the 2010 hung election was it ?

It wasn't as bad as this after Black Wednesday 1992 or the banking collapse in 2008.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:26 pm

To be clear I'm fucking furious at the scale of Cameron's Folly and it is untrue to say that things shall continue as they were. There has already been a hold on capital investments and now there shall be flight. The only saving grace looking forward is that more investment must emanate from government. I somehow doubt that Tories are up to the job.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:27 pm

Telegraph live blog reporting that British people currently in Greece can not exchange sterling for euros because there's no central bank exchange rate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... erendum-c/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:27 pm

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Hear bloody hear. Prick.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:28 pm

danesclose wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)
Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday

So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:29 pm

PLP v CLP. Coming soon.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:30 pm

And hear bloody hear to this one as well.

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F***ing "Lexit". F*** off. Deluded snowflake idiots.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:33 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
yahyah wrote:It wasn't as bad as this after the 2010 hung election was it ?
It wasn't as bad as this after Black Wednesday 1992 or the banking collapse in 2008.

Although it could have been worse in 2008. It was the rapidity and decisiveness of Gordon Brown's response that headed complete disaster off at the pass. The longer the government takes to decide what to do next, the worse it will be, regardless of the ultimate action taken imo. If it was me I'd already be making noises about the single market and free movement of people still possible to calm nerves in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Also, the deputy must step up now Cameron has effectively resigned. He could have stayed on and started Brexit negotiations, but this half still PM half not is the worst possible scenario. He has to go completely straight away and let the deputy take over. The markets like clarity and all they're getting is fudge.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)
Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.

Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:Telegraph live blog reporting that British people currently in Greece can not exchange sterling for euros because there's no central bank exchange rate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... erendum-c/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doesn't surprise me - I was in Italy in September 92 when we exited the ERM and there were Brits wandering around trying to find a bank to exchange travellers cheques (whatever happened to them?)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:People voted for this thinking there wouldn't be any bad consequences. They are about to learn their lesson.
Indeed. And it will be hard not to highlight this to them in emotive language.

The few people I've spoken to thus far, [and I didn't ask how they voted] when I've mentioned the financial melt down, have vaguely waved their hands in the air and assured me it'll all settle down.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:42 pm

Vis a vis: no confidence vote in Corbyn. What are the agitators in the PLP going to do if he wins?

If he doesn't, who will they replace him with that will simultaneously appeal to the liberal, socially democratic minded Scottish and Londoners, and the isolationist, xenophobic working classes of the North East?

I'm still not seeing anyone who fits the bill.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:45 pm

PorFavor wrote:Am I misreading things or does it appear to be the case that the EU isn't desperately interested in having "informal discussions" with us? Don't they just want us to cut to the chase? I get the impression that tea and cucumber sandwiches aren't on their list of things to do.

On the way home from the hospital, BBC said all the EU countries have said they want it settled quickly. And who can blame them?

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:45 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Vis a vis: no confidence vote in Corbyn. What are the agitators in the PLP going to do if he wins?

If he doesn't, who will they replace him with that will simultaneously appeal to the liberal, socially democratic minded Scottish and Londoners, and the isolationist, xenophobic working classes of the North East?

I'm still not seeing anyone who fits the bill.

Steady on, Jonny, Newcastle, where I am sitting, voting remain.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)
Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.

I forgot, there is an outstanding candidate. Is this enough of a crisis for him to have a rethink?
Come back Ed, all is forgiven.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Don't know why that double posted.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:48 pm

Willow904 wrote:I think Boris was expecting a narrow win for "in" giving him half a chance of walzing into number 10 as the champion of the disappointed dispossessed. Brexit doesn't really work for him, does it? I expect the Tory party will rally found a 'safe pair of hands' like May (ha!) or Hammond (oh dear!).

Sturgeon is currently giving a statesmanlike speech which I really can't be bothered to listen to.

I haven't heard anything useful or inspiring from Labour yet.

Heard a little of Boris's statement. Nothing is going to change and we're still Europeans...Yeah right!

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:48 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Vis a vis: no confidence vote in Corbyn. What are the agitators in the PLP going to do if he wins?

If he doesn't, who will they replace him with that will simultaneously appeal to the liberal, socially democratic minded Scottish and Londoners, and the isolationist, xenophobic working classes of the North East?

I'm still not seeing anyone who fits the bill.
Steady on, Jonny, Newcastle, where I am sitting, voting remain.

I meant the voters who have left Labour for UKIP, not all from the NE.

Sweeping generalisations I know, but I honestly can't see anyone squaring the circle. It isn't possible anymore. Personally, I think the xenophobes who have gone to UKIP can go swivel. I don't want them back, and most certainly not on their racist terms.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:51 pm

Willow904 wrote:
TR'sGhost wrote:
yahyah wrote:It wasn't as bad as this after the 2010 hung election was it ?
It wasn't as bad as this after Black Wednesday 1992 or the banking collapse in 2008.
Although it could have been worse in 2008. It was the rapidity and decisiveness of Gordon Brown's response that headed complete disaster off at the pass. The longer the government takes to decide what to do next, the worse it will be, regardless of the ultimate action taken imo. If it was me I'd already be making noises about the single market and free movement of people still possible to calm nerves in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Also, the deputy must step up now Cameron has effectively resigned. He could have stayed on and started Brexit negotiations, but this half still PM half not is the worst possible scenario. He has to go completely straight away and let the deputy take over. The markets like clarity and all they're getting is fudge.

(my bold)

Exactly what I thought reading Cameron's speech. Alarm bells went off.
His matter-of-fact, useless and perfunctory speech contained no specific
information the country needs to know now. "I'll get things stabilised
here and then my Tory party will pick another leader for you, I'll do
what I like when I like" was insulting.

I read the speech - I didn't listen or see it.