Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:09 am

gilsey wrote:@nonoxcol

Goodnight.

I heard your message before I read it, thank you, gilsey.
Goodnight, everyone.
I love you, Tristram Hunt, the Labour party, the UK and the EU.
cJA

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:09 am

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:goddamn you
So he won't be on your Christmas card list then?
As long as he's Labour working for the people, country, I'm fine with Tristram Hunt. One thing I take from the Tories and that is stay together when it's essential to stay together. I hope Tristram Hunt and the Labour party knows what they're doing. I hope they do it successfully with Corbyn onside.

Darling they're not being nice. They're being extremely nasty and selfish, and are throwing the best chance they've ever had of gaining in stature and pulling back support from the Tories, away. Jeremy won't have much choice in the matter despite the spin that's being put on it.
If they were thinking of us, if they cared for GB, they'd be plotting against the Tories not their democratically elected leader who has boosted funds and members more than any other.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:11 am

Sorry CJA but in my book Hunt and Stephen Kinnock are traitorous little shits.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:13 am

Apparently the guy who heckled corbyn is a PR exeutive who works for Progress, according to twitter.

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:31 am

Good morning.
I'm bewildered by the usual suspects in the Labour Party. It's becoming so predictable that when the Tories are in trouble they create a Labour distraction through their briefings of compliant media and contacts. Isn't this the way that insurgents operate? Would you put it past serious Tory right wing strategists to infiltrate the Labour Party? If these 'operatives' can continue to show Labour as Tory-lite whilst maintaining their personal credibility then Tory-right will always be elected. Hence they are scared to death of Corbyn.
Just a little fanciful late night musing?
I wish you all some peaceful sleep but I know it won't be easy.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:04 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
yahyah wrote:I'm not sure why we are supposed to love people who voted Leave and had no idea of the basics of what they were voting for were. Or didn't have any notion of the importance of the result.
Yes, it is Cameron's failure, and maybe not enough was done to really make sure people understood.
But all the information was there. The tv companies had debates and programmes, as did the radio.

Why is it wrong to criticise such people ? Surely even if you are a Lexit supporter you wouldn't want a win for Leave based on people not understanding or regretting their vote, or voting to get rid of foreigners. Other groups get abuse heaped on them by the left, why should we tread softly around people who have helped wreak havoc ?
Huge applause. I am sick and fucking tired of English anti-intellectualism, from working class comprehensive school to now. This vote is patent evidence of colossal, offensive stupidity from top to bottom and it absolutely must be called out for what it is, otherwise we really are lost.

Just seen an exchange where a cancer research doctor is told she should stop begging for EU funding and rely on the Holy Spirit to find a cure. And someone linking to the London Olympics with the words "look what we had".

This is the worst event in British politics in my adult lifetime and I will not apologise for my anger towards the idiots who brought it about.
Hear hear. I'm not going to just shrug and shake hands with the people who have tipped the country over a precipice. On top of which they have probably done serious, if not irrevocable harm to both my career and that of my wife. I'm just a poxy freelance writer and the country can do without me, but the same is not true of my EU immigrant wife, and I am taking their ignorant destructiveness personally.

So yes, I'm furious with Leave voters. I think they were stupid, I think they were wrong and in some cases I think they were hateful and vindictive. In time there may be a rapprochement, but not now, and probably not for a long time. You could call me a bad loser if this was a sporting event or a pub quiz, but it isn't, it's a huge constitutional issue which will have far reaching effects, many of them effects that will be bad for the people who voted for them as well as the rest of us.

I actually met a Leave voter tonight. He made the point that anyone who voted leave overt immigration is an idiot and he thinks there should be a second referendum because 1. The bad weather prevented some people voting and 2. 16 year olds should have had the vote.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:18 am

Since the FT got hold of it, I suppose it's harmless to say what the Cabinet Secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, sent to all civil servants.

The meat of it is-

"The task falls to us to support the government, and the new prime minister when appointed, in carrying forward the clear decision of the British people to leave the European Union and set a new direction for the country....... (with) our customary calm, integrity, and commitment”.

Roughly translating as best I can from High Whitehall Mandarin, I think he roughly means something like "The country expects that every civil servant will do their duty. We're here because we're here and there's no-one else coming to rescue us. The reputation of the nation, Crown and service is at stake. May God help us all."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:24 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1717625/corby ... rship-coup" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corbyn Sacks Hilary Benn Over Leadership Coup

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:28 am

HindleA wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1717625/corby ... rship-coup

Corbyn Sacks Hilary Benn Over Leadership Coup

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good on Corbyn.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:34 am

Temulkar wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1717625/corby ... rship-coup

Corbyn Sacks Hilary Benn Over Leadership Coup

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good on Corbyn.

Indeed.

And yet, and yet...I feel that the paeans of praise surely due to this example of firm and decisive leadership may be somewhat lacking elsewhere.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:41 am

I dont think this has been sparked by brexit i think the coup was coming regardless of the vote - this is about chilcott i think.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:47 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:17 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... appens-now" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hilary Benn has been sacked. What happens now?

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:29 am

Insomnia is in full flow and a migraine rumbling, no chance of sleep so a few snippets from the FT....

First off, the sale of remaining government stock in Lloyds and Royal Bank of Scotland has been put on hold due to "market turmoil." Shares in the already privately owned Lloyds stock fell 20% on Friday to £0.57. Just to show how bad that is, the break-even price on the government held stock at close of trade on Thursday was £0.735. It seems that's too much of a loss to stomach even for Osborne, who was very happy to sell off a big chunk of RBS stock last year at a £1.1billion loss to the Treasury. That's 3 months worth of the infamous £350million wasted there alone.

Also on Friday shares in buy-to-let focused lenders fell by up to 30%.

Chirantan Barua, an analyst at Bernstein, told the FT after the vote results that “London is going to get absolutely hammered”, adding that “the buy-to-let guys are the biggest single short today”.
The Treasury was not immediately available for comment.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e02972d2-3aca ... 140b0.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the City's largest institutions are already approaching regulators in other EU members to secure trading licenses and shift at least a chunk of their operations to places like Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt. The Governor of the Banque de France who also sits on the ECB governing council has said the UK might get offered the same terms as Norway, so long as the UK accepts the same conditions and abides by them. Whether he added "and shuts up, stops whinging and accepts there's no-one to blame for this but itself" is not reported, but I think we can probably take that as read.

The FT allows comments but rarely gets more than one or two per article. Now appearing are some of the tediously familiar "the British have spoken! The universe must suck it up or else! Nobody likes us, we don't care! Who needs any banks anyway! Treason!!1!" variety.

One persistent Kipper Kommenter thinks since the banks only employ around 65,000 people in a city of 12,000,000 people, who cares if they all sod off elsewhere? Kipper Economics shows that the only contribution a company makes to the economy is the wages it pays its employees, and the wages of 65,000 people are peanuts compared to the size of London's population so no problem. And there's lots of "So, I guess the average wage bank workers get paid is maybe........, therefore......." made-up Kipper numbers and arithmetic that proves it! And the banks buggering off will free up useful resources for other more important uses. Apparently.

So it seems Operation Prevent Kippers Having Buyer's Regret has now landed at the FT. To be greeted initially with patient attempts to explan why they're wrong, then, when that just gets more of the same and worse in response, they get the scorn they deserve. Just how stupid do you have to be to persist in trying to convince FT readers that fiscal multipliers don't really exist, automatic economic stabilisers don't exist and all a company is worth to a national economy is its net wage bill in the city it's based in.

Anyway.

It seems there's a big shift of money towards "safe shores" like US Treasury Bonds. Gold has gone up as well and US meta-indicators apparently shifted from very positive and confident on Thursday to the opposite on Friday.

Interestingly, there also seems to be a majority feeling that the situation globally isn't as bad as another 2008 yet and, unless things get worse as time goes on, may well never be. Which is good.

What's less good is the majority consensus also seems to be that while that means the rest of the world isn't too panicked because all the investors need do to protect themselves somewhat is unload sterling and UK stock/bonds sharpish, the collapse in Sterling means the UK's economy is now staring into the abyss with the only thing preventing us falling in being what HMG do next; and a rush to implement Article 50 would be a really, really bad idea.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:33 am

As an aside to that, one factor in the US view seems to be a common expectation that HMG will simply point out the referendum is only "advisory/consultation" so not constitutionally binding on Parliament. So surely a country as old, wise, devious, powerful and experienced as the UK isn't daft enough to destroy itself for no sensible reason at all. I suspect the US thing about the strict interpretation of their Constitution and how it can block politicians and constrain government might be coming into play there. The implications of the UK's constitution boiling down to "Parliament is sovereign and, with the caveat the government can not break the existing law without the judges getting upset, whatever it votes for goes" is often a bit lost on them.

I've discussed this with a few Americans in on-line forums that are nothing to do with politics. Until the discussion they start by innocently enquiring "what does all this actually mean then" flares up and/or they're pointed at BTL at a few UK newspapers, a few right wing websites and Jo Cox's murder is explained to them they genuinely don't seem to understand the local political difficulty in telling millions of angry committed Brexiters "thanks for your very helpful suggestion, but the sensible people have had a think and a bit of a chat over a nice cup of tea, and we've decided we'd rather have an economy instead."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:42 am

1/3 Hilary Benn's response to his sacking:'There is widespread concern among Lab MPs and shad cab about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership
2/2 Benn:'there is no confidence to win the next election if Jeremy continues as leader'
3/3 Hilary Benn: 'in a phone call to Jeremy I told him I had lost confidence in his ability to lead the party and he dismissed me'

#Iain Watson

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:01 am

HindleA wrote:1/3 Hilary Benn's response to his sacking:'There is widespread concern among Lab MPs and shad cab about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership
2/2 Benn:'there is no confidence to win the next election if Jeremy continues as leader'
3/3 Hilary Benn: 'in a phone call to Jeremy I told him I had lost confidence in his ability to lead the party and he dismissed me'

#Iain Watson

There are reports that Corbyn also refused to share a platform with Gordon Brown in the dying days of the Referendum campaign, reports, but if true just imagine it, one former leader trying to bust a gut to keep this country, current leader hardly breaking a sweat. The man is a calamity, that view isn't popular around here, but it is mine.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:29 am

refitman wrote:Got to love this June weather. It's just started hailing.

'kin' Corbyn

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:32 am

I don't think he possesses the necessary skills,it is not a left/right thing to me.I try and not be part of the binary position and knee jerk accordingly.I don't think he had much choice in this one.Everybody seems to have hit the self destruct button.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:40 am

Self destruction does seem to be flavour of the month. Voters, politicians, it all seems very irrational.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:51 am

People may call me a bad loser but I'm still furious that Bloaty McBloatface called it wrong. Everybody loses.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:55 am

Telegraph headline 'Labour party in crisis'.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:10 am

Did I hear that the Big Brother House shall cost £7bn to repair before it sinks into the Thames?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:13 am

@DavidCoburnUKip Dougie Carswell - a poor man's Lembit Öpik.

@Suzanne Evans
Pretty shocked @DavidCoburnUKip RT'd this & more. Think it breaches party rules. Will @UKIP act?

@Arron Banks

#You and Carswell are a total disgrace on every possible level. Nigel & UKIP fought and beat the establishment.

"Love is all around"

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:17 am

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:18 am

I'm going back to bed with breakfast and the latest copy of The English Garden.
Reality is a little too unsettling at the moment.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:27 am

I'm fucking angry with them all, parliamentarians that is. Bloody Tories getting us in this mess, LibDems standing for return after the next election and some fanciful reality TV rent-a-gobs parading in Labour. Stfu and pull yourselves together. Vote of no confidence in the government now! Stand on preventing Article 50.

Not that the pending electoral investigations have any direct bearing on such course of action, no time for delay, they do provide additional grounds to a no confidence vote. However achieved, a definitive decision on Article 50 must be made by a new administration and not a Tory appointed one.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:39 am

I even have a few heartfelt words of advice for my nemesis David Cameron. You are still Prime Minister, well last I looked and according to my Downs daughter and granddaughter, who shall be remembered for changing the face of British politics. Go out with some dignity you fucking coward. Swallow your pride and while you still have some credibility, if indeed you have, immediately strike up cross party alliances with a promise of PR... then let us have a new GE.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:47 am

I don't know who it was just now on Breakfast telly but he clearly expressed my views on the current Labour infighting...

Mmm... too lazy to elucidate them myself.

Postscript: ... well except nobody can quantify just how much of the referendum vote had nothing to do with Europe.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:57 am

Cameron resigns,Benn sacked, Osbourne missing.Emergency national government formed while Labour & Tories in meltdown

: dogwork.jpg (32.58 KiB) Viewed 6167 times

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:02 am

Morning All

It seems to me quite simple. The one thing Labour needs even less than a Corbyn leadership is a Blairite throwback leader.

Until there is a potential leader who has appeal across the piece Corbyn should stay and Benn and the rest should realise this. Some thought Burnham could do it, but his campaign was weak to say the least.

Could Cooper manage it? I really don't see anyone else. I'm disappointed in Jarvis who seems to have become a divisive schemer.

So I agree Corbyn isn't the perfect Labour leader. But the PLP needs to listen to its membership and listen to this Referendum result and understand that Neoliberal Austerity should be over. Who else in Labour but Corbyn and McDonnell is speaking to that?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:03 am

P.S. I'd have Ed back tomorrow. Ho hum.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:04 am

See below

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:06 am

Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 1h1 hour ago
Just been told half the shadow cabinet to resign this morning

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:06 am

#ditchthedogs #LarryforPM

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:25 am

Apologies if we've seen this already...and yes I know it's Nick Clegg but it's spot on.

Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave…

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/wil ... ote-leave/

Then you discover just how unprepared the Government is – that there simply aren’t enough trade negotiators in Whitehall, for instance, with the expertise to renegotiate 50 or so international trade accords.

As politicians bicker, you become increasingly unnerved by what’s happening in the economy, too: overseas investors take fright; money flows out of the country; our credit rating is slashed; the interest on our borrowing goes up; unemployment rises; sterling tanks; prices in the shops go up.

Nicola Sturgeon soon announces that preparations have started for a second independence referendum, claiming it is the only way to keep Scotland in the EU. And this time most commentators think that she will win.

Still, at least they will finally sort out our borders, right? After all, ending mass immigration was the Brexiteers biggest claim of all.

So imagine how you’ll feel when you discover that they don’t have a plan for that either? Some argue for a new land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to stop EU immigrants coming in through the “back door”. Others that a new border would harm the peace in Northern Ireland. The Australian points system which they advocate is no solution either – it has led to immigration levels twice as high as in the UK.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:25 am

Heidi Alexander, Shadow Health Secretary, has just sent resignation letter to Corbyn,

: Cl3CaEIWMAA6BGf.jpg (83.1 KiB) Viewed 6561 times

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:27 am

Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 7m7 minutes ago
Alastair Campbell Retweeted WordsAreCheap
Yes many new members still think he is the Messiah. But many see he cannot win an election that may be soon

Yes, think this is the point - we need a leader in that can win and we need it fast not in 2020.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:32 am

I hope she sent a copy of that to Gisela Stuart and other pro-Leave Labour MPs.
They helped impose the economic shock on the rest of us. Maybe it is them that should be resigning.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:39 am

utopiandreams wrote:I even have a few heartfelt words of advice for my nemesis David Cameron. You are still Prime Minister, well last I looked and according to my Downs daughter and granddaughter, who shall be remembered for changing the face of British politics. Go out with some dignity you fucking coward. Swallow your pride and while you still have some credibility, if indeed you have, immediately strike up cross party alliances with a promise of PR... then let us have a new GE.

A general election under PR...can someone reassure me that wouldn't result in a lot of new UKIP MPs ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:40 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 7m7 minutes ago
Alastair Campbell Retweeted WordsAreCheap
Yes many new members still think he is the Messiah. But many see he cannot win an election that may be soon

Yes, think this is the point - we need a leader in that can win and we need it fast not in 2020.

I think you are right Roger.

Events are overtaking us. We don't have the luxury of time on our side.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:45 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 7m7 minutes ago
Alastair Campbell Retweeted WordsAreCheap
Yes many new members still think he is the Messiah. But many see he cannot win an election that may be soon

Yes, think this is the point - we need a leader in that can win and we need it fast not in 2020.

I disagree. We need MPs who'll fight the tories not their leader and membership. They should hang their heads in abject shame.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:46 am

Budgies in a cage fighting for the mirror.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:55 am

Eagle sisters,Bryant,Burnham-unconfirmed

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:56 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Heidi Alexander, Shadow Health Secretary, has just sent resignation letter to Corbyn,
Cl3CaEIWMAA6BGf.jpg

Shame about the careless date typo there.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:09 am

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

What Rough Beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:21 am

The Lib Dems could garner support with a pro-EU manifesto.
I'd be tempted to vote Lib Dem here, as Mark Williams has campaigned very hard to remain.
Labour don't stand a chance here. Can't believe I'm even thinking that.
Curse you Cameron. Curse you Farage and Boris Johnson.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:21 am

I'm cursing them with a vat of cold jelly, nothing sinister I promise.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:27 am

Diane Abbott for Shadow Foreign Secretary apparently,
An yet unnamed man bumped into whilst cycling who promised not to resign for Shadow Home
Larry the Cat open to offers to all parties if the price is Right.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:30 am

Diane Abbott ? Am I dreaming this ?