Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:33 am

That's it. If it is Abbott I will be sending the letter to cancel my membership direct debit.

Box my ears, but the idea of a possible Trump presidency and Abbott as Foreign Sec if Labour can win an election is not my idea of heaven.
I'll be buying a nuclear Andersen shelter.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:37 am

Council leaders+Councillors

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:38 am

Say more HA.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:38 am

Tom Watson may lead into Autumn

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:40 am

Ferrets fighting in a sack - blind, vicious, messy, and ultimately pointless.

It seems to me that certain members of the PLP have no idea of the damage they are doing - they may well get their way, oust Corbyn, and try to foist their preferred candidate on the party, but then what?

I can't be the only ex-member to have left the party in disgust at the division they are creating. More people will leave; then who is going to deliver the leaflets, knock on doors, support local candidates......and pay subs?
How many times are they going to try to get rid of Corbyn, against the expressed wishes of the wider membership, and fail (again)?
This is ridiculous.

I really hope that these people come to their senses and work together. It's a vain hope, obviously, as they've had some time to do it.
There they all were, complaining that this poxy referendum was nothing more than a fight for the Tory leadership, and lo and behold they're using it for exactly the same purpose.

FFS.

Corbyn, of whom I am not a slavish follower BTW, was duly elected as leader and he should be supported. End of story.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:41 am

HindleA wrote:Tom Watson may lead into Autumn

I definitely don't want him leading anything anywhere.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:42 am

http://labourlist.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:44 am

Good morning all

I perish to think what the markets will do on Monday

No Government, no plan, no opposition

The first one is the fault of the Tories, the second one is the fault of the Brexiteers and the third one is the fault of the PLP

Wasn't it Simon Schama who was asked what historians would make of Brexit in 50 years he said it would be seen as the most damaging self-imposed action done by a country since the War.....who can argue with him now?

I was pessimistic on Friday, now I am downright scared about the future of the country, myself and my family and friends

Sorry to say this to anyone reading this on here who voted Leave - no matter what your intentions, you and others have done this in full knowledge of how bad the consequences could be. It seems they could now get worse

Is there anything anybody can say that can be cause for a bit of optimism 'cos I for one can't bloody see anything

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:44 am

Abbott says it is untrue.Larry The Cat confirms.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:44 am

See you later. Am depressed. Our nasty neighbours have been causing trouble again, upsetting people including us.
It feels indicative of the state of things. They are right wingers, obsessed by their land boundaries and completely barking to boot. They threaten, and bully and intimidate. Then claim they are the victims.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:45 am

He was a great golfer,not sure if he is the best person,as you say.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:47 am

Larry the Cat refuses to say which way he voted due to risk of dog attack,which may be a clue or not.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:48 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morning all

I perish to think what the markets will do on Monday

No Government, no plan, no opposition

The first one is the fault of the Tories, the second one is the fault of the Brexiteers and the third one is the fault of the PLP

Wasn't it Simon Schama who was asked what historians would make of Brexit in 50 years he said it would be seen as the most damaging self-imposed action done by a country since the War.....who can argue with him now?

I was pessimistic on Friday, now I am downright scared about the future of the country, myself and my family and friends

Sorry to say this to anyone reading this on here who voted Leave - no matter what your intentions, you and others have done this in full knowledge of how bad the consequences could be. It seems they could now get worse

Is there anything anybody can say that can be cause for a bit of optimism 'cos I for one can't bloody see anything

And remember all the fuss that the right wing media and the Tories made about ''we must have stable government or the markets will collapse, we'll end up like Greece'' when we had a hung Parliament in 2010 ? Why is it ok to have a Tory induced rudderless state like that now ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:48 am

Sorry to hear you are depressed,yahyah

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:50 am

Maybe resign from something,or join specifically to resign.#Let'sallresign

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:51 am

This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:53 am

HindleA wrote:Maybe resign from something,or join specifically to resign.#Let'sallresign

That made me smile on a morning with few things to smile about...thank you

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:56 am

It is with a heavy heart I have resigned from my Chess Club,this was a difficult decision not easilly made,but for the sake of my sanity,not to say,yours,it is a sacrifice I feel I have to make.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:57 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morning all

I perish to think what the markets will do on Monday

No Government, no plan, no opposition

The first one is the fault of the Tories, the second one is the fault of the Brexiteers and the third one is the fault of the PLP

Wasn't it Simon Schama who was asked what historians would make of Brexit in 50 years he said it would be seen as the most damaging self-imposed action done by a country since the War.....who can argue with him now?

I was pessimistic on Friday, now I am downright scared about the future of the country, myself and my family and friends

Sorry to say this to anyone reading this on here who voted Leave - no matter what your intentions, you and others have done this in full knowledge of how bad the consequences could be. It seems they could now get worse

Is there anything anybody can say that can be cause for a bit of optimism 'cos I for one can't bloody see anything

I have serious reservations about that second referendum petition... but I'd sign this in a flash:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeeeee-zuzzzz.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 9:58 am

IDS displays his grasp of numbers yet again.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

Morfternoon all...

Have I woken up in an alternative reality?

Half the Shadow Cabinet to resign?

Really?

Didn't see or hear much of them during the campaign....just the continual airings of the Tory Civil War and the Rise Of Farridge...so what is the real motivation?

Corbyn not electable? Really? I'm very aware that many in here are not convinced/happy with Corbyn...but facts is facts....each of the elections during his leadership, Labour have increased their vote (as they did with Ed at the 2015 election, but that was a disaster for Labour while Clouncy Funt (who has now indeed 'clounced' off into the sunset) 'won' a majority with 24% of the possible vote, using the full forces of Murkydochia and the MSM* and various other (very expensively funded by a few of Daves' Mates) legal and (allegedly) illegal means), and by chewing up their partners in the coalition (also not a little helped by the rise of the SNP (with the full backing of Murkydochia - anti-Tory in Scotland/pro Tory in England/Wales))...

It seems to me that those that voted out to kick Clouncy in the codpiece are the same as those who recognise Corbyn as the only political leader who is anti-austerity, anti-war, anti-oppression of the poor, sick and disabled ....but that just won't do...we must continue with Austerity, we must continue to ignore foodbanks, Universal Cr*psh*t, losing more from the economy than has ever been paid in EU contributions, another £250bn to the banks (total now since 2008 - £625bn) to shore up the economy (how many hospitals/schools/teachers/nurses/doctors/firemen etc?), ignore the Wests' part in setting fire to the Middle East, ignore the refugees of war zones and re-name them 'immigrants'...I could go on (but it is possible this isn't making any sense and is unreadable

)...

...and now I see Diane Abbott rumoured to be Shadow Foreign Secretary....not even I can defend that...I've no particular axe to grind against Ms Abbott, but she ain't no Foreign Secretary - so Corbyn is actually going to be toast then

Still - it's good of Labour to take the heat whilst Clouncy and his inhuman goons just hide away untroubled by the chaos and calamity they've caused (which, again, is nothing to do with Corbyn or the Labour Movement) presumably counting the profits of their hedged investments via Panama.

....in other news, the Petition now stands at 2,975,037....at it's current rate if increase, should hit 3,000,000 in about 10 minutes...but f*** that, let's have some good old Labour bashing (not referring to this place, BTW).

*incl. the BBC - BBC News has never recovered from the loss of Richard Sambrook as Head (Dr David Kelly/Bliar newtering the newsrooom ready for the Murkydochian plants)...and as others have said, the squealing of the Iraq Warmongers gets louder and louder the closer Chilcot gets...and let's face it - we most definitely can't have the Leader of a political party who can point to actual anti-War activities and also point out that without Michael Howard and the Tories (incl. a certain D Cameron) Bliar would have failed to get the support in Parliament - it should always be referrded to as Blair and the Tories War in Iraq (IMHO).

ttfn ftn...thanks for being here as ever

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:02 am

Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.

I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:09 am

HindleA wrote:Abbott says it is untrue.Larry The Cat confirms.

Ha - serves me right for believing(TM) without waiting for actual confirmation...but it's almost as though anything can be said now and believed(TM) to be 'truth'

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:12 am

Willow904 wrote:
Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.
I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.

I'm not desperate to hang on to Corbyn. But the main reason his position with the press is weak is because of the PLP. He knows that whenever he does an interview he will spend half his time answering questions about coups. The PLP are the guilty party in this; they should respect the decision of the membership.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:13 am

Dear lord I hope there is no truth to this. But, in this world, it actually feels plausible.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... ar-stupid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:16 am

Temulkar alluded to Chilcott last night.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:19 am

Willow904 wrote:
Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.
I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.

So who is this person they will be able to work with?
Hilary Benn said he didn't want to be leader and wasn't proposing an alternative.
This is insane.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

NonOxCol wrote:Dear lord I hope there is no truth to this. But, in this world, it actually feels plausible.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... ar-stupid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is really frightening.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:24 am

Willow904 wrote:
Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.
I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.

I fully understand this point, but wasn't that what Ed tried? To be consiliatory with the media, try to get along and get the message out? The media, of course, relished the opportunity to tell everyone how Ed was weak, weak, weak etc and how Clouncy and his followers were 'real serious' politicians? I'm just saying that I understand why Corbyn would avoid the press as much as possible....and I had hoped that Watson, as a vocal anti-Murkydochian might be helping out a bit there (after all - what harm could it do to mention his book, Dial M for Murdoch, and mention that if Leveson 1 had indeed been implemented the rancid bilefest that purports to be 'media' would have to be factual (i.e. no stories about immigruntz takin' our jobs etc))

Petition now over 3m BTW

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

Seems to me it's democracy that is under attack Tory party destroys its grassroots so they buy the election paying for the on the ground war that they can no longer organise. The PLP attack the populist (Labour member) leader because obviously members don't understand proper power as only power elites know how to properly govern. People (as in mobs) should only be activated in power elite struggles and never allowed to really participate in the governing of a country. Those who really know how to wield power (political, economic and social) are the elites. The people they're (and their) fodder. Sunday morning misery.

On the upside I've found out I have automatic Irish citizenship.

Morning all

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

Some of these people challenging Jeremy have themselves have big vote to Leave in their own constituency.

If you look at Hilary Benn’s constituency, there is a big majority for leave. So if they had a magic answer on how to get disaffected Labour voters to come out for Labour voters, I am surprised that they didn’t actually exercise that solution in their own constituencies.

As it happens, 60% of the Labour vote have come out to vote for remain. If Cameron had got a similar proportion of Tory voters, we would have won the referendum.

I think party members are going to be baffled and upset. What they want is for the party to unite at a difficult time for the country.

Abbott speaking sense.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:31 am

Well, this is awkward.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:31 am

frightful_oik wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.
I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.
I'm not desperate to hang on to Corbyn. But the main reason his position with the press is weak is because of the PLP. He knows that whenever he does an interview he will spend half his time answering questions about coups. The PLP are the guilty party in this; they should respect the decision of the membership.

Even if it means losing a third of their voters? Do the views of the 9m people who voted for Ed Miliband in 2015 not matter? Because I think they do. If Labour is going to narrow its appeal and give up trying to win over Tory voters, give up on Tory/Labour/Libdem marginals like mine, I'd really have to consider voting Libdem instead. I've voted Libdem in a Tory/Libdem marginal in the past. I'm not looking for a perfect fit, I just want someone who better represents my views than Jacob Rees-Mogg. I can't wait for Labour to become an ideal left-wing party, purged of anyone who doesn't have exactly the right outlook, especially as such a party would probably purge me. I supported the war in Iraq.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:33 am

James O'Brien just shared this comment from btl at the G

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:35 am

Ros Altman becomes Lady Altman and Minister without fixed position and will rotate parties accordingly,so no change there then.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:40 am

Robert Peston has said “the shadow cabinet members resigning with Hilary Benn are those who voted with him on Syria plus two others”. If that’s true these are the people who are on that list:

Angela Eagle – First Secretary of State and Shadow Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills
Tom Watson – Deputy Leader
Gloria de Peiro – Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Registration
Maria Eagle – Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
Lucy Powell – Shadow Education
Hilary Benn – sacked as Shadow Foreign Secretary
Heid Alexander – resigned as Shadow Health
Luciana Berger – Shadow for Mental Health
Chris Bryant – Shadow Leader of the House of Commons
Vernon Coaker – Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:45 am

If the PLP try to follow up ousting Corbyn by excluding any left winger from the subsequent contest, then the party *will* split.

Most of the unions won't wear it for a start.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:55 am

Paul Mason; An open letter to Labour MPs

Dear Labour MPs...
Were living through a massive and complex historic moment. Brexit signals, at the very least, the high watermark of globalisation. I didn't vote for it and I don't relish dealing with it.
But this is not Labour's defeat. We did not call the referendum; even those of you who chose to take part in the government-led campaign were not its leaders. This is the Tories' catastrophe.
The exit polling shows Labour persuaded 2/3 of its supporters to vote Remain. I think that is an achievement. And in part it is an achievement for Corbyn and Mcdonnell. Without the "remain and reform" demand I think even more of our own people would have voted out.
The Tories are in turmoil. There is a swing of former No voters in Scotland towards independence. The constitutional crisis means PLP members will be required to act as parliamentarians first, party members second in the next days.
Our party activists on the ground need to be getting ready for a general election; reassuring migrant communities; facing down the wave of racism that's been triggered. The party conference needs to be re-engineered so we can discuss Labour policy for the post-EU situation.
This is not the time to spend two months re-running last year's leadership election.
Our strategic problem is to reconnect not only with the Labour core voters who backed Brexit but with those who have drifted to UKIP.
I don't know whether the present leadership can do that; I do know all the previous leaderships failed to do it. We need to work out a plan and try.
Maybe in challenging Corbyn some of you are really preparing to split the Labour movement and form some new centrist party with Vince Cable and co? Say it openly then and get on with it. You will guarantee Tory rule for a decade but it's your right.
But if so, please stop trying to sabotage this party - a historic creation of the British working class, and the only resilient institution for social justice and democracy we have.
Is Corbyn the ideal leader? It's impossible to tell what an ideal leader is. For the historic period that's opened up, with populist politics and nationalist rhetoric corroding the power of reason - I really don't know what kind of leadership we will need. He'll be tested, for sure, and in any case we have to find a new generation prepared to redefine Labour politics for an era of uncertainty.
But one thing I do know: Corbyn is incapable of lying to the British people; he is immured to elite politics; he didn't spend his entire life in a Machievellean project to gain power and an invite to Oleg Deripaska's yacht.
That's why I voted for him and will do so again if you trigger a leadership vote.
I disagree with Corbyn on Trident, on Syria and I would have liked him to demand stronger reforms from Europe. I disagreed with Miliband on a lot more - but I respected him as a politician of principle and the elected leader.
In your minds I suspect some of you crave the emergence of a less slick, more plebeian Blair. Somebody to fight populism with populism. The referendum was won by clowns: Johnson and Farage. If we in Labour want to summon up our own populist clown let's think hard before doing so.
We need a careful process of analysis and rebuilding, based on evidence not hysteria.
As I write some shadow cabinet members are resigning, claiming Corbyn is ineffective. Yet he delivered what Cameron could not - 2/3 of his voters, against the combined might of Fleet St.
They are saying we can't win an election with Corbyn. We're on 32% - neck and neck with the Tories.
I'm certain we cannot win with yet another establishment technocrat. If a single member of the right of Labour had an analysis of what went wrong that goes beyond"we don't like Corbyn's style" I'd listen. It's not there.
Corbyn needs to form a new shadow cabinet of people who actually want to represent the workers, youth and minorities of this country and understand the first principle of our movement - stick together.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:55 am

I watched Corbyn's big speech yesterday and I didn't find it very impressive. He waffled on about irrelevant rubbish for ages before speaking vaguely about a plan for exit negotiations which the opposition have no control over and completely failed to attack the Tories for this complete and utter clusterfuck. I find it impossible to see him as a PM. I feel his inability to inspire confidence in the PLP is more than a difference of political opinion. I share some of Corbyn's outlook but have no confidence in him to deliver it. If the left really has the best interests of the party at heart, they need to put up a more capable candidate.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:57 am

McDonnell says there may be an election in November,or next May,Fox says next Tory leader should be a Brexiter and all non,should stand down from the Cabinet.

FFS

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:57 am

I'm just about done with Labour.
What the flippin fuck do they think they're up to?
Country in turmoil.government a joke,oh,let's flounce around on tv saying how crap Corbyn is.
So that's good for the country,right?A strong leader they haven't got my ass.
Also,why Labour think they could win an early election beats me,the fuckwit 52% will want Boris and Sir Nigel stirring his alcoholic racist poison from the Lords.
And why would Labour even want to win right now?The Torys made the mess,let them clean it up.Or Labour will be blames for another recession.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

Willow904 wrote:I watched Corbyn's big speech yesterday and I didn't find it very impressive. He waffled on about irrelevant rubbish for ages before speaking vaguely about a plan for exit negotiations which the opposition have no control over and completely failed to attack the Tories for this complete and utter clusterfuck. I find it impossible to see him as a PM. I feel his inability to inspire confidence in the PLP is more than a difference of political opinion. I share some of Corbyn's outlook but have no confidence in him to deliver it. If the left really has the best interests of the party at heart, they need to put up a more capable candidate.

Yes I saw it, too. I was waiting for him to get to the point. I still am.

At the risk (yeah, certainty) of boring everyone - the referendum and it's outcome wasn't Jeremy Corbyn's fault. But he is not the person to deal with the fall-out of the result, as he demonstrated yesterday.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:06 am

Oh - Tom Watson? No thank you.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:06 am

H Aiexander,same as Benn,nobody in mind,will not stand.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:07 am

Mystery Person reveal yourself.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:08 am

I keep trying to say something but I really can't figure out what's going on in my own head, let alone in the country, so I'll just quote lonewolfie.

Lonewolfie wrote: Still - it's good of Labour to take the heat whilst Clouncy and his inhuman goons just hide away untroubled by the chaos and calamity they've caused (which, again, is nothing to do with Corbyn or the Labour Movement) presumably counting the profits of their hedged investments via Panama.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:09 am

He was crap,no idea,me?no.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:10 am

PorFavor wrote:Oh - Tom Watson? No thank you.

I could accept him as acting leader until somebody is elected at conference.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:12 am

I think that is the idea.