Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:26 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
I'm really not a fan of Tom Watson, but I agree with Anatoly that as an interim leader he may be the best answer right now. He has a mandate to match Jeremy's and he has the raw fight in him that Labour needs right now. Also I have no doubt he has been preparing for just this sort eventuality which, however Machiavellian that may be, is no bad thing.
Watson? He can go do something rude to himself with a rolled up copy of The Sun.

He's one of those that's been plotting. So you reward him? Give him what he wants? Support someone who with the other rebels voted to bomb Syria?

Sheesh. No wonder the countries in a mess.

Watson had overwhelming support for the deputy position and if a leadership contest is called he automatically steps up. If plotting is being popular enough to get voted into an important strategic position within the party then everyone up and down the land seeking promotion and more responsibility is guilty of it. Watson has actually made some interventions that has helped protect Corbyn because he could clearly see it was in the interests of the party. I know he's not especially loyal, he can be a right pain in the ass, but he's not that bad. He's on my side when it comes to standing up to the Murdoch press at the very least. I honestly wonder if those who see the devil in every single Labour MP bar a small handful on the left are actually in the right party. When I look at a Labour MP, I look for the things I agree with, I look for the common ground. I have done so with Corbyn, but I find I have no more common ground with him than with many other Labour MPs in the party and that clearly makes me rather different to some here. Loyalty to the party can mean many different things and I don't think supporting someone even when you feel they are letting Labour down is necessarily what loyalty should mean. It's easy for those who think Corbyn is doing a good job, but for me there is a calculation to made about how badly I think he's letting Labour down versus how much damage would be done by the unpleasant and nasty business of attempting to replace him.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:27 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:
HindleA wrote:Abbott says it is untrue.Larry The Cat confirms.
Ha - serves me right for believing(TM) without waiting for actual confirmation...but it's almost as though anything can be said now and believed(TM) to be 'truth'
Every time there's any kind of reshuffle the rumours about 'Abbott to foreign sec' surface. They weren't true before, why do people think they are now?

Perhaps because they are being cynically manipulated?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:All the sudden indecision about Corybn. The caving in. The speculation about who's going to lead next.
You're going to get one of the right wing suits.
Well that depends on who it might be. If it was Starmer I'd be happy with that. We need serious people in charge right now.

But we do need a leadership contest I'm certain of that. The leader has to carry his/her MPs with them and Corbyn clearly isn't doing that right now.

The thought that Boris might be PM is just too horrific to imagine.

Agreed, Roger.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:32 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
Willow904 wrote:I watched Corbyn's big speech yesterday and I didn't find it very impressive. He waffled on about irrelevant rubbish for ages before speaking vaguely about a plan for exit negotiations which the opposition have no control over and completely failed to attack the Tories for this complete and utter clusterfuck. I find it impossible to see him as a PM. I feel his inability to inspire confidence in the PLP is more than a difference of political opinion. I share some of Corbyn's outlook but have no confidence in him to deliver it. If the left really has the best interests of the party at heart, they need to put up a more capable candidate.
Ok. Let's say Corbyn gives the speech of his career, straight from the heart.

He points out that the country is up shit creek and the man that got it there has just thrown the paddles overboard and run away.

That the Tories and UKIP have, with the aid of the media, been stoking up racism, xenophobia and hatred since 2008. That their solution to all questions on all issues is that more people must be encouraged to hate each other more every day. Old against young, employed against sick, everyone against the disabled, English against Scots and Welsh and vice versa, and so on until everyone passionately hates everyone else in a social darwinist anarcho-capitalist shit hole. A drag race to the bottom and a banana republic that hasn't even got the climate to grow bananas

The consequence is that unless something is done to halt the process, the UK is a matter of weeks or at most months from joining the third world and the only people who will benefit from that are the shiny suited well polished lying shits who created this situation.

The leaders of the Labour party, SNP, LibDems and concerned Conservatives have asked for an interview at the palace where they shall together request that the Queen exercises the royal perogative of disolving Parliament immediately because the country can not carry on in this leaderless state. The people deserve and need better than that.

Two thirds of Labour voters voted to remain, and they and everyone else who wants to halt this destruction of our way of life, whatever their previous party loyalty, are asked to put aside their differences and unite behind what will not be a Labour government but a national government formed for the purpose of steering us all through this crisis. That government will re-enter negotiations with our European partners in good faith and try and salvage what we can.

To which the press, other media, UKIP, the Tory right and the shiny suited, well polished TV friendly well-off smooth operators of the PLP respond in unison -

"Don't listen to Corbyn, he doesn't sing the National Anthem, Corbyn must go."
"Corbyn insults millions of Brexiters, Labour's traditional core voters furious, Corbyn must go."
"Corbyn doesn't think Labour can win alone, Corbyn must go."
"Corbyn betrays British people, Corbyn must go."
"Corbyn refuses to appeal to the proudly nationalist indigenous working class, Corbyn must go."
"Corbyn is useless, Corbyn must go, three cheers for Hilary, Boris and Nigel!"

Frankly, I think we're fucked. Welcome to the future. It will not be pleasant.

Jesus, that's exactly, terrifyingly right, and had it been someone passionate and capable of such a speech (like Brown), that's almost certainly the reaction he would have received as well.

What an utter hellhole they've created.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:34 pm

Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
I'm really not a fan of Tom Watson, but I agree with Anatoly that as an interim leader he may be the best answer right now. He has a mandate to match Jeremy's and he has the raw fight in him that Labour needs right now. Also I have no doubt he has been preparing for just this sort eventuality which, however Machiavellian that may be, is no bad thing.
Watson? He can go do something rude to himself with a rolled up copy of The Sun.

He's one of those that's been plotting. So you reward him? Give him what he wants? Support someone who with the other rebels voted to bomb Syria?

Sheesh. No wonder the countries in a mess.
Watson had overwhelming support for the deputy position and if a leadership contest is called he automatically steps up. If plotting is being popular enough to get voted into an important strategic position within the party then everyone up and down the land seeking promotion and more responsibility is guilty of it. Watson has actually made some interventions that has helped protect Corbyn because he could clearly see it was in the interests of the party. I know he's not especially loyal, he can be a right pain in the ass, but he's not that bad. He's on my side when it comes to standing up to the Murdoch press at the very least. I honestly wonder if those who see the devil in every single Labour MP bar a small handful on the left are actually in the right party. When I look at a Labour MP, I look for the things I agree with, I look for the common ground. I have done so with Corbyn, but I find I have no more common ground with him than with many other Labour MPs in the party and that clearly makes me rather different to some here. Loyalty to the party can mean many different things and I don't think supporting someone even when you feel they are letting Labour down is necessarily what loyalty should mean. It's easy for those who think Corbyn is doing a good job, but for me there is a calculation to made about how badly I think he's letting Labour down versus how much damage would be done by the unpleasant and nasty business of attempting to replace him.

Thank you for this, Willow. Some great wisdom in it.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:34 pm

Psst ... Wanna buy some cheap wallpaper ? Got some nice Anaglypta. Gonna get some nice Woodchip coming in later, Come round the back for a nice Flock ?

: George-Osborne.jpg (49.48 KiB) Viewed 6109 times

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:35 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Well, my focus will be drowned out today by the PLP, but here's something we really ought to know and - let's be honest - should have figured out when the number of signatures exceeds the majority by a factor of over 2.5:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/w ... gwe2whr529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please stop the world, I want to get off.....

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

I note that the SC quitters are drip-feeding their resignations for maximum media impact. Meanwhile the tories get away with murder. They have betrayed their party and their voters.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

Paul Mason, the reason the Labour MPs challenging Corbyn only have a flimsy, he's not the leader we need is because the headline behind their likely reason (throw out the referendum results) wouldn't be popular.

Everyone? Ask yourself this. Do you think the Labour MPs not supporting Corbyn's leadership are wholly without a clue about what's going on in the country now? I think they understand what's at stake right now. I could be wrong.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:39 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I can see that Labour has lost so much support, and is on the verge of losing so much more, that it really doesn't matter any more. I am so angry about the mess the Tories have made with this referendum. Tristram Hunt channelled that anger on Newsnight the other night, he took the words out of my mouth when the leave guy was back tracking on the 350m for the NHS and he said " but I saw it on a bus!". He was articulating what I felt in a way Jeremy Corbyn never has at any point if his leadership. Corbyn's response to the leave vote has confirmed for me that he doesn't share my perspective and he can't adequately represent me. I would vote for a party with Tristram Hunt and Vince Cable in it and you clearly wouldn't, so it seems to me that if you won't stretch to meet me, you must understand why I'm finding it so hard to stretch to meet you. And the "broad church" is no more.
As no doubt you will eventually discover, young master Tristram will say whatever suits the moment.
He doesn't want the UK broken up and out of the EU. He'd have raised more hell about Corbyn than he's done the last ten months if he were merely a brat.

Not a brat CJA. He's a politician. It's what they do.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:40 pm

Hilary Benn, the former shadow foreign secretary, said this morning (see 9.52am) that he thought the party would have to respect the result of the referendum.
Graun live

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:40 pm

frightful_oik wrote:I note that the SC quitters are drip-feeding their resignations for maximum media impact. Meanwhile the tories get away with murder. They have betrayed their party and their voters.

I'm not sure.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:42 pm

Where's "He was elected democratically by the largest margin ever and the Party must abide by it" gone?

Not important any more?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:47 pm

Even Zelo Street thinks it's inevitable

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... ished.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:54 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Maeght wrote:This is a genuine question.

Just who is this mystical person who is going to provide all those things the resigners want?
There was a discussion here yesterday and nobody had unequivocal support.

I am still not clear what Jeremy Corbyn has done wrong. He doesn't provide leadership and isn't charismatic apparently. Hilary Benn ( on Marr) just said he is a good and decent man but he is not a leader. Does that mean leaders shouldn't be good and decent men?

Total despair just doesn't describe my feelings adequately.
I presume the resigners want someone they can work with. Someone who's available, not on holiday. Someone who is happy to represent Labour to the press rather than tell them to go away. I understand why Labour members want a more left wing party. I don't understand why they are so desperate to hang on to Corbyn.
Maybe they're desperate not to have a destructive palace coup. Maybe they're desperate not to be betrayed by the party they have supported and worked for.

I want a party that is not full of backstabbers and traitors and self-obsessed scum who care nothing for the democratic process or the wishes of the membership. It is now clear to me that Labour is not that party.

I'm sorry, but I'm sick to death of them. They can have their alternative flavour of neoliberlism. I'll never vote for them again and I hope they suffer the same fate as the LibDems, because it's what they deserve. Fuck Benn, fuck Coffey, fuck Bradshaw, fuck Alexander, fuck Reed, fuck Hodge, fuck Labour and fuck the country. They deserve nothing better than the Tories which is lucky, because that's what they'll get.

I've never been a full Labour member, but an affilated one via the Musician's Union since 1983. There have been times I've thought I really ought to take out full membership. The last couple of days being one of those times.

Last night and today have reminded me why I never have. Because the sheer cynical contempt some in the PLP (and some councillors) have for their own party members, voters and the ordinary people of this country is staggering. Because their only operating principle is personal opportunism dressed up as "realism" and "responsible moderation." They become what they claim to be better than.

In eleven days time it is the centenary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Keir Hardy was thoroughly opposed to the push for war before 1914 and the ideological ancestors of Hilary Benn, Tony Blair, David Blunkett, Mann and the rest destroyed him for it so they could "prove Labour are responsible and fit to govern".

A tragedy now being retreaded as farce.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:55 pm

Faisal IslamVerified account
‏@faisalislam
Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

Not surprised really - in all of the years that UKIP have been going they didn't have a single coherent idea about what would happen afterwards.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:56 pm

We really are in a battle for the soul of the nation arent we. No government, no opposition, a nation filled with hate on the verge of economic collapse. Lots of lies already being exposed and as the establishement infights the nation watches on aghast. One MP already dead, race hate crime shooting through the roof, and a disenfranchised and very, very, angry generation at the bottom of the heap. The apathy turning to anger as democracy fails.

Our nation has successfully avoided this sort of situation for nearly 400 years and fuck knows where it ends.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:58 pm

Just found this bedraggled chap on a grubby park bench eating cold chips. Been sleeping there since Friday.

: George Osborne bench.jpg (66.22 KiB) Viewed 6003 times

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:59 pm

Temulkar wrote:We really are in a battle for the soul of the nation arent we. No government, no opposition, a nation filled with hate on the verge of economic collapse. Lots of lies already being exposed and as the establishement infights the nation watches on aghast. One MP already dead, race hate crime shooting through the roof, and a disenfranchised and very, very, angry generation at the bottom of the heap. The apathy turning to anger as democracy fails.

Our nation has successfully avoided this sort of situation for nearly 400 years and fuck knows where it ends.

Temulkar, don't be silly

This is all so unimportant because it is more important for the Labour Party to talk to itself and tear itself apart at the same time there is no effective Government

Self-indulgent wankers......

If what I believe could happen in the markets over the next week or so comes to happen then we will be lucky to have an future as a country never mind fannying around over the next election

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Temulkar wrote:We really are in a battle for the soul of the nation arent we. No government, no opposition, a nation filled with hate on the verge of economic collapse. Lots of lies already being exposed and as the establishement infights the nation watches on aghast. One MP already dead, race hate crime shooting through the roof, and a disenfranchised and very, very, angry generation at the bottom of the heap. The apathy turning to anger as democracy fails.

Our nation has successfully avoided this sort of situation for nearly 400 years and fuck knows where it ends.

Temulkar, don't be silly

This is all so unimportant because it is more important for the Labour Party to talk to itself and tear itself apart at the same time there is no effective Government

Self-indulgent wankers......

If what I believe could happen in the markets over the next week or so comes to happen then we will be lucky to have an future as a country never mind fannying around over the next election

Silly? if anything I understated just how bad things are and could get.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

Just a reminder of the reason I stopped posting at the Guardian and ended up here*:

Jo Cox was murdered.

The one and only front bench MP who has scrupulously behaved decently in parliament and not in the manner that was the direct cause of that murder is now being thrown under a bus. "A new politics".

My bitter relationship with Labour looks like it's coming to a definite close. Sadly, I hope the Party does destroy itself now because, frankly, something new and far better needs to be constructed and that's only going to happen from the ashes with the dross that infests the organisation burnt out.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:05 pm

Temulkar wrote:We really are in a battle for the soul of the nation arent we. No government, no opposition, a nation filled with hate on the verge of economic collapse. Lots of lies already being exposed and as the establishement infights the nation watches on aghast. One MP already dead, race hate crime shooting through the roof, and a disenfranchised and very, very, angry generation at the bottom of the heap. The apathy turning to anger as democracy fails.

Our nation has successfully avoided this sort of situation for nearly 400 years and fuck knows where it ends.

Britain wasn't, as Cameron kept saying, broken in 2010 but it feels like it is now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:05 pm

Corbyn just happens to have had the bad luck to be chosen by a huge majority of people. Basically he has nothing to do with it.

This is about the Labour Party.

MPs made the rule about electing their leader, but it didn't give them the person they wanted, so now they're going to get rid of the leader.

I'm sorry but whichever way I look at it, it isn't right. It's undemocratic.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:07 pm

This weekend should have been wall to wall saturation about the Tories tearing themselves apart ... The backtracking of promises from the Leave camp etc.

I'm blown away by the stupidity and timing of this by those 'rocking the boat' yet again.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:07 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I don't think I can vote for a party that has Hilary Benn, Ann Coffey, Margaret Hodge etc in its ranks. I certainly can't belong to it

I know how you feel.

I guess it comes down to who the local Labour candidate is and which faction is in charge of Labour nationally. And how they compare to the Greens.

But voting Labour, despite reservations, because the alternative is going to be worse isn't an option any more. Not if Labour is led by people who cheer on imperialist adventures, collude with "special rendition", write articles for the Sun about "bogus asylum seekers", pander to racism and make pissing on true progressive principles and policies something to brag about.

The Progress plan, right back to 1994, seems to be to lead a party of MOs and Lords, with few if any members, no principles other than power for the sake of power, funded by billionaires and relying on the media to big them up when the Tories get into such a mess not even Murdoch feels inclined to support them any more.

Well, not in my name they don't.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:07 pm

Lucy Powell's gone.

And that is a real shame - she's been the most effective shadow Education Secretary Labour have had for ages.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:08 pm

I took as agreement laced with sarcastic comment of Labour Party priorities.

To Tem's response to howsilly's response to Tem's post,somewhere above.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:09 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Just a reminder of the reason I stopped posting at the Guardian and ended up here*:

Jo Cox was murdered.

The one and only front bench MP who has scrupulously behaved decently in parliament and not in the manner that was the direct cause of that murder is now being thrown under a bus. "A new politics".

My bitter relationship with Labour looks like it's coming to a definite close. Sadly, I hope the Party does destroy itself now because, frankly, something new and far better needs to be constructed and that's only going to happen from the ashes with the dross that infests the organisation burnt out.

Same here. I am absolutely disgusted with them. I shan't vote again. I'm done with it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Temulkar, don't be silly

This is all so unimportant because it is more important for the Labour Party to talk to itself and tear itself apart at the same time there is no effective Government

Self-indulgent wankers......

If what I believe could happen in the markets over the next week or so comes to happen then we will be lucky to have an future as a country never mind fannying around over the next election
Silly? if anything I understated just how bad things are and could get.
I think howsilly was being ironic Tem

Indeed I was.....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/nicola-st ... u-5967485/?
Nicola Sturgeon says Scotland could block UK’s exit from EU
I hope she's right.

I could even learn to love her if she manages it.

See that things have got worse since I logged off this morning.
Have had a long session with a Jon Kabat-Zinn relaxation CD. Am a little calmer.

But what still bugs me is thinking that at a time of chaos, and Tories in disarray, why the **** can't Labour present a united front and show that they are calm, considered and capable of stopping the worst of the Brexit mess ?

I agree with Willow when she says ''I want Labour to fight leaving the EU, even now''.
If Stuart, Field and Skinner don't like it, tough.
If people come to their senses when the economic storm Heidi Alexander referred to hits them, they may end up moving back toward Labour if they aren't too stupid to realise a non-Brexit position was always sensible.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:16 pm

So they're all resigning but not a single one of them has the guts to stand for leader. How very brave of them.

I'm beginning to think that they might deserve what Tom Watson will do to them if he becomes caretaker leader.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:17 pm

Sorry of this has already been posted, but I've lost track of where we are.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... civil-case" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

Can anyone explain to me how Labour are going to get a new leader in the two different scenarios....Corbyn refuses to resign, or he does resign?

In the former case surely he will win if he stands so they will have to sabotage that possibility, and in the latter surely he can anoint his successor by backing them?

Even if the timing wasn't so self-indulgently contemptible - can you explain to me how this can be done without blood-letting

I don't get the impression that Corbyn is a quitter, and he knows he has a huge power base in the membership

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

But voting Labour, despite reservations, because the alternative is going to be worse isn't an option any more. Not if Labour is led by people who cheer on imperialist adventures, collude with "special rendition", write articles for the Sun about "bogus asylum seekers", pander to racism and make pissing on true progressive principles and policies something to brag about.

Some of you are saying it so much better than I could.

Poor old Corbyn isn't the reason. He's just being used as the catalyst. From the day he was voted in with that huge majority, they've been scheming, undermining and plotting.

I am even wondering if they were happy with the Ref going to Leave. If that's the reason their constituencies had such low percentages for Remain.
As politicians they were well aware of the chaos Leave would cause. What better time to strike.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Silly? if anything I understated just how bad things are and could get.
I think howsilly was being ironic Tem
Indeed I was.....

Ah I miseread - and im supposed to be a writer!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:22 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Where's "He was elected democratically by the largest margin ever and the Party must abide by it" gone?

Not important any more?

Of course it is. I love the person and politician Corbyn is. There's no guile or subterfuge about him. He's trustworthy and his leadership is virtuous.

I'm utterly heartsick to read history unfolding here realising events beyond our individual control are leading us into some nasty mess.

I'm not convinced some of the Labour MPs are evil or are being mindlessly manipulated or overindulgent with their own egos. I might be wrong.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:22 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how Labour are going to get a new leader in the two different scenarios....Corbyn refuses to resign, or he does resign?

In the former case surely he will win if he stands so they will have to sabotage that possibility, and in the latter surely he can anoint his successor by backing them?

Even if the timing wasn't so self-indulgently contemptible - can you explain to me how this can be done without blood-letting

I don't get the impression that Corbyn is a quitter, and he knows he has a huge power base in the membership

I hope he does dig his heels in. I'm just waiting to see what happens. If his name comes up on another ballot, f**k 'em, I'll vote for him. If he goes whether voluntarily or pushed, then I resign.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:23 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how Labour are going to get a new leader in the two different scenarios....Corbyn refuses to resign, or he does resign?

In the former case surely he will win if he stands so they will have to sabotage that possibility, and in the latter surely he can anoint his successor by backing them?

Even if the timing wasn't so self-indulgently contemptible - can you explain to me how this can be done without blood-letting

I don't get the impression that Corbyn is a quitter, and he knows he has a huge power base in the membership

If Corbyn refuses to resign it may happen that he doesn't get enough nominations from the PLP to run in a leadership competition. How the PLP can't even register how terrible it'll go down with the membership that Corbyn isn't even permitted to stand, I don't know.

If Corbyn resigns, a new leader will easily be chosen. By 1/2 to 2/3 fewer people because of the mass exodus of members.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:24 pm

Burnham and Thornberry defending Corbyn now....has the palace coup run out of steam?

Need to get some more of the big guns going...at the moment, part from Benn, it will a bit of 'who?' from the general public - not that they will give a shit at the moment

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:24 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Burnham and Thornberry defending Corbyn now....has the palace coup run out of steam?

Need to get some more of the big guns going...at the moment, part from Benn, it will a bit of 'who?' from the general public - not that they will give a shit at the moment

We've got Eagle to come yet. Don't hold your breath on expecting her to stay.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Burnham and Thornberry defending Corbyn now....has the palace coup run out of steam?

Need to get some more of the big guns going...at the moment, part from Benn, it will a bit of 'who?' from the general public - not that they will give a shit at the moment
We've got Eagle to come yet. Don't hold your breath on expecting her to stay.

I am not sure even that will be enough........and Eagle was deeply unimpressive during the campaign

Remember Corbyn has a big Shadow administration so the gaps may be able to be filled.

Not saying it won't happen but they are running out of time, and Burnham staying was a big thing

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Just found this bedraggled chap on a grubby park bench eating cold chips. Been sleeping there since Friday.
George Osborne bench.jpg

I see he has Cameron's shirt, Toby. Didn't the shoes fit?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:28 pm

Maeght wrote:So they're all resigning but not a single one of them has the guts to stand for leader. How very brave of them.

I'm beginning to think that they might deserve what Tom Watson will do to them if he becomes caretaker leader.

And to think I made him my second choice. Ah well, once bitten.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:29 pm

"FUCK YOU OUT" sprayed on Polish Social and Cultural Association building in Hammersmith. Met investigating.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:31 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Burnham and Thornberry defending Corbyn now....has the palace coup run out of steam?

Need to get some more of the big guns going...at the moment, part from Benn, it will a bit of 'who?' from the general public - not that they will give a shit at the moment
We've got Eagle to come yet. Don't hold your breath on expecting her to stay.
I am not sure even that will be enough........and Eagle was deeply unimpressive during the campaign

Remember Corbyn has a big Shadow administration so the gaps may be able to be filled.

Not saying it won't happen but they are running out of time, and Burnham staying was a big thing

Corbyn could still lose the vote of no confidence tomorrow, even if the 7 we have already are it. The likelihood of another leadership contest is still very high.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:34 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote: We've got Eagle to come yet. Don't hold your breath on expecting her to stay.
I am not sure even that will be enough........and Eagle was deeply unimpressive during the campaign

Remember Corbyn has a big Shadow administration so the gaps may be able to be filled.

Not saying it won't happen but they are running out of time, and Burnham staying was a big thing
Corbyn could still lose the vote of no confidence tomorrow, even if the 7 we have already are it. The likelihood of another leadership contest is still very high.

And with a GE in the offing - do we run it under new boundaries and 600 seats?

If so could be some difficult selection battles in certain seats

I think any MP who decides to vote for a new leadership election at this time should be challenged for their seat and with the membership as it is......could be interesting

I wouldn't want this to happen in normal circumstances but opportunism can work in a number of ways

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:34 pm

Well...

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 2m2 minutes ago
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:35 pm

Faced with such challenges, it is essential we have a strong and united opposition. Which is why today, I and several of my colleagues have decided to reinforce the weak and disunited image we have spent months cultivating by a staggered series of resignations.

GFY Lilian Greenwood. And the rest of you c*nts. If any of you get anywhere near leading the Labour Party, then I really will not give two shits what happens to it or you, because it will have ceased to represent anything I care for.

Some of us still have principles. And if that means that we are not suited for British politics, then so be it. I'll let the rest of you get on with fucking this country up even further whilst I spend more time on other things that don't make me as angry.

Yes this is a rant, and it's not directed at anyone on here.

[edit: spelling, I still mean it all]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:35 pm

Cameron's sister in law, Samantha's sister, wants to join the sinking Labour ship.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ho ... ur-8285483" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There will be more people like her.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:36 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:Sorry of this has already been posted, but I've lost track of where we are.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... civil-case" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought I was in June 2016,somewhere in the disintegrating non Republic of not United Kingdom)tbc,details to follow),but H.Alexander's letter was dated 2015 so seemed to have travelled back in time,so pass is the honest answer