Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:36 pm

A petition that might actually be worth signing - for a National Unity Government.

Have been convinced since reading TR Ghost's post that it's imperative.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... 7W99CNYwdS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

Jeremy Corbyn has no comments to make as he leaves his home. I'm not impressed.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

Good to see no boost for UKIP.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:37 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how Labour are going to get a new leader in the two different scenarios....Corbyn refuses to resign, or he does resign?

In the former case surely he will win if he stands so they will have to sabotage that possibility, and in the latter surely he can anoint his successor by backing them?

Even if the timing wasn't so self-indulgently contemptible - can you explain to me how this can be done without blood-letting

I don't get the impression that Corbyn is a quitter, and he knows he has a huge power base in the membership

Furthermore, if there's a politician who's not driven by an egotistical drive for power, that person is Corbyn. I believe he'd sacrifice his
own personal ambitions and leadership of the Labour party before he'd let his country, people and Labour party down by not doing
so. I don't understand what's going on. I've given my own thoughts based upon what I've read, what I know personally about
Labour MPs I've met and know a little about.

I beg everyone not to make an enemy of people until we understand more, please. This is what I'm reminding myself of right now.
I may very well just be some hick without a clue. But I have trouble believing that at this moment of crisis in the UK's history Labour
MPs are merely pitching fits due to their own ego problems.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:38 pm

Chilcott, Referendum, IndyRef, Tories historical cock up, Tory party leadership, country split, end of GB ....... OOOOOHHHHH look at that HUGE dead cat.

Thanks Blairites ....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:39 pm

The 'moderates' must be feeling sick to see Labour neck and neck with the Tories.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:Jeremy Corbyn has no comments to make as he leaves his home. I'm not impressed.

Corbyn has repeatedly told the press that he will not do interviews outside his home. Repeatedly. So do not be surprised when he doesn't.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

NonOxCol wrote:A petition that might actually be worth signing - for a National Unity Government.

Have been convinced since reading TR Ghost's post that it's imperative.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... 7W99CNYwdS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That could well be an option worth considering at this time....mind you the fuckwits that make up a good proportion of the British electorate won't like it as it will be a bit complicated, and mean they have to get up off their fat arses and actually do some background research before they draw an opinion on something

PS Sorry if i have offended anyone, and it doesn't attack anyone whose opinions are different from mine, including anyone who voted Leave. It is aimed at the people, of all creeds, colours and political persuasions, who cannot be bothered to take accountability for their vote and treat voting as a beauty context without any thought

I also am a bit in ranting mode

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

PorFavor wrote:Jeremy Corbyn has no comments to make as he leaves his home. I'm not impressed.

He never gives comments or interviews around his home out of consideration for his neighbours.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:41 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Jeremy Corbyn has no comments to make as he leaves his home. I'm not impressed.
Corbyn has repeatedly told the press that he will not do interviews outside his home. Repeatedly. So do not be surprised when he doesn't.

If more politicians did what he does the media would stop doorstepping.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

1.2 Million displaced people are wandering around in Europe with less than a third of them granted full asylum-seeker status in various countries.

1.2 Million emergency food parcels were donated to people in the UK from just one provider in 2015, representing a third of the total food aid.

Doctors, nurses, teachers, fire-fighters, police, armed forces, border staff, local authority workers - all suffering, underpaid, and overworked.

Millions on dire wages and/or short hours, in precarious employment, expensive and often sub-standard housing, reliant on meagre benefits.

Sick, disabled, and elderly people in the UK not getting care at home and frequently unable to get care in hospital either.

Our economy is teetering on the brink of disaster because people voted to leave a stable trading bloc with little regard for the consequences.

The far right is on the move and on the rise, the party of government is in disarray and has no clue how to proceed and the PM has resigned.

While all this is going on, the party for the workers representing the votes of 9,347,304 people, is engaged in internecine squabbling. Again.

That party is preparing, apparently, to go against the wishes of its members, activists, workers - the very people it relies on to provide its funds and do its campaigning - and oust a leader elected by a landslide.
That party had a leader who was responsible for a (possibly) illegal war which killed 500,000 Iraqi citizens and 4,000-plus servicemen; it had another who was never really given a chance to lead and is now being seen much more kindly than when in office; another who didn't stand a chance against those who supported his brother and a mainstream media determined to make him fail.
Now it has a leader who is different, who is anti-war, anti-austerity, anti-hate - but he refuses to engage with the media shit, refuses to play the usual pathetic games, and wants to get on with the job he has never been allowed to do without some prat blabbing to the media about his failings (real or imagined) and still they are not satisfied. They want another Blair.

This country is the absolute pits. If Labour dies a death over this, I know who to blame. They should be ashamed of themselves.

FFS. (Yes, I've been saying that a lot lately)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

Don't apologise HowSilly.

People I know who are normally calm, cool and collected have had the red mist in the last few days.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:45 pm

''Tom Watson spotted trying to get back from Glastonbury'' according to the Telegraph.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:46 pm

NonOxCol wrote:A petition that might actually be worth signing - for a National Unity Government.

Have been convinced since reading TR Ghost's post that it's imperative.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... 7W99CNYwdS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've signed it. We need something to be done and this is a lot less f***ing stupid that what everybody is doing at the moment, especially the PLP, so what the hell.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:47 pm

I've just gone to it, and it says to try again in a few days as they need to check it conforms to petition standards.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:50 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/angela-me ... t-5967595/?
German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s chief of staff has said MPs should be able to have the chance to think again about the consequences of leaving the European Union.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:51 pm

Why don't the spineless bastards all resign at one time...what is with the drip feed to the media?

Nauseating

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:51 pm

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There simply isn't enough karma in the world for this piece of shit.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:54 pm

No wonder the SNP have gained support.

They look as if they are united and doing something while Labour slugs it out.
Same with Farron for the Lib Dems, no equivocating, he's delivered a straight message about his party's position at a general election.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:55 pm

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F*** me. This is beyond surreal. Boris was playing cricket yesterday, of course.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:56 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Why don't the spineless bastards all resign at one time...what is with the drip feed to the media?

Nauseating

If only they were as enthusiastic about damaging the Tories as they seem to be about harming their own party.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:57 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well...

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 2m2 minutes ago
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 32% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 16% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
(via Survation, online / 24 - 25 Jun)

polls

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 1:59 pm

Seema Malhotra's jumped now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:01 pm

"After yesterday’s European referendum, politicians of all parties must listen to and respect the vote. Millions of
voters have rejected a political establishment that has left them behind. Communities that have been hardest hit
by government cuts and economic failure have voted against the status quo.

The first task is to come together and heal the divisions. Our country is divided and things need to change.
Politicians on all sides must respect the decision of the British people.

Ours is the only party that can meet the challenge we now face. Labour is best placed to re-unite the country.
We can only do so because we didn’t engage in project fear, and because we share people’s dissatisfaction with
the status quo. That was why we put a case for both remain and reform.

I will be making clear to both Remain and Leave voters that Labour will fight for the exit negotiations to be
accountable to an open, transparent parliamentary process. And we’ll do everything to secure the best deal for
the people of Britain at every stage.

We cannot leave it to the Conservative Party - who have shown time and again they can’t be trusted to stand up for working people."

- Corbyn

(my emphasis)

That's not going to work for the SNP for a start I can tell you that for sure.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

yahyah wrote:''Tom Watson spotted trying to get back from Glastonbury'' according to the Telegraph.

He and Ed Miliband were there. Miliband spoke a bit yesterday.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:05 pm

STV News is reporting that a former chair of Scottish Labour, Jamie Glackin, will back independence in a second referendum.
Graun live

And who can blame him

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:08 pm

Ralf Littie,top bloke IMHO.Not biased in due to response to late night football related inane tweet,of course ,which cheered me up as such things to immeasurably.Quick witted,generous,responsive,well informed.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:08 pm

We're all doomed, I tell ye. Doomed!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:09 pm

ephemerid wrote:If Labour dies a death over this, I know who to blame. They should be ashamed of themselves.

FFS. (Yes, I've been saying that a lot lately)

(cJA edit)

I don't think your assessment of the Labour party is fair - I think it's more than egos and power now. I think both Corbyn and other Labour MPs (who may or may not be supporting his leadership) are doing what they think is best for country and people.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:12 pm

yahyah wrote:''Tom Watson spotted trying to get back from Glastonbury'' according to the Telegraph.

Don't blame him - the thought of watching Coldplay is enough to make anyone leave...

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:13 pm

I hardly dare post this, but here goes:

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How Labour can stop Brexit. On the one hand it's aiming for a unity government/cross-party pro-Remain alliance. On the other, it's not good news for Corbyn.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:14 pm

yahyah wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/nicola-st ... u-5967485/?
Nicola Sturgeon says Scotland could block UK’s exit from EU
I hope she's right.
I could even learn to love her if she manages it.

See that things have got worse since I logged off this morning.
Have had a long session with a Jon Kabat-Zinn relaxation CD. Am a little calmer.

But what still bugs me is thinking that at a time of chaos, and Tories in disarray, why the **** can't Labour present a united front and show that they are calm, considered and capable of stopping the worst of the Brexit mess ?

I agree with Willow when she says ''I want Labour to fight leaving the EU, even now''.
If Stuart, Field and Skinner don't like it, tough.
If people come to their senses when the economic storm Heidi Alexander referred to hits them, they may end up moving back toward Labour if they aren't too stupid to realise a non-Brexit position was always sensible.

Scotland is going to leave the rest of the country if the government Brexit. Corbyn has written all political leadership must respect the outcome of the EU referendum. Sturgeon is listening to the voice of Scotland, no others. I don't blame or judge. Just look at realities.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"After yesterday’s European referendum, politicians of all parties must listen to and respect the vote. Millions of
voters have rejected a political establishment that has left them behind. Communities that have been hardest hit
by government cuts and economic failure have voted against the status quo.

The first task is to come together and heal the divisions. Our country is divided and things need to change.
Politicians on all sides must respect the decision of the British people.

Ours is the only party that can meet the challenge we now face. Labour is best placed to re-unite the country.
We can only do so because we didn’t engage in project fear, and because we share people’s dissatisfaction with
the status quo. That was why we put a case for both remain and reform.

I will be making clear to both Remain and Leave voters that Labour will fight for the exit negotiations to be
accountable to an open, transparent parliamentary process. And we’ll do everything to secure the best deal for
the people of Britain at every stage.

We cannot leave it to the Conservative Party - who have shown time and again they can’t be trusted to stand up for working people."

- Corbyn
(my emphasis)

That's not going to work for the SNP for a start I can tell you that for sure.

This was the point I could no longer support him. I am very pro-remain. I can't support a Labour party led by someone who welcomes an "out" vote and everything about this speech suggest Corbyn does. He's ready to get on with it. And I know objecting to Brexit makes no difference, it's already happening, and yet it was in this moment of a momentous political shift that crystallized for me why I've never really been able to get on board with Jeremy Corbyn. I fundamentally disagree with his point of view on something that is pivotal to my entire political outlook.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:22 pm

Ha, this is very good:

Crisis ahead!...... If all the Blairites resign from the Shadow Cabinet who will be left to leak the confidential business to the press?
— Paul Flynn (@PaulFlynnMP) June 26, 2016

https://twitter.com/PaulFlynnMP/status/ ... 9491786752

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:22 pm

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
"After yesterday’s European referendum, politicians of all parties must listen to and respect the vote. Millions of
voters have rejected a political establishment that has left them behind. Communities that have been hardest hit
by government cuts and economic failure have voted against the status quo.

The first task is to come together and heal the divisions. Our country is divided and things need to change.
Politicians on all sides must respect the decision of the British people.

Ours is the only party that can meet the challenge we now face. Labour is best placed to re-unite the country.
We can only do so because we didn’t engage in project fear, and because we share people’s dissatisfaction with
the status quo. That was why we put a case for both remain and reform.

I will be making clear to both Remain and Leave voters that Labour will fight for the exit negotiations to be
accountable to an open, transparent parliamentary process. And we’ll do everything to secure the best deal for
the people of Britain at every stage.

We cannot leave it to the Conservative Party - who have shown time and again they can’t be trusted to stand up for working people."

- Corbyn
(my emphasis)

That's not going to work for the SNP for a start I can tell you that for sure.
This was the point I could no longer support him. I am very pro-remain. I can't support a Labour party led by someone who welcomes an "out" vote and everything about this speech suggest Corbyn does. He's ready to get on with it. And I know objecting to Brexit makes no difference, it's already happening, and yet it was in this moment of a momentous political shift that crystallized for me why I've never really been able to get on board with Jeremy Corbyn. I fundamentally disagree with his point of view on something that is pivotal to my entire political outlook.

Haven't loads of MPs been saying 'we have to respect the result'? I don't respect it by the way, I just accept it happened. I have no respect for a majority of those who voted Out (there are some who thought it through and did it on principle which I do retain a respect for).

All those in the Leave areas are saying 'we have to listen to the voters' - meaning we pander to them on immigration because they have not done as much opposing the austerity policies of the Tories as they could, especially 2010-2015

The most controversial comment Corbyn made was when he stated the truth that under the single market rules there was no upper limit to EU immigration - he got jumped on by the party for this by being 'unhelpful' - telling the truth more like it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:23 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I hardly dare post this, but here goes:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How Labour can stop Brexit. On the one hand it's aiming for a unity government/cross-party pro-Remain alliance. On the other, it's not good news for Corbyn.

...regardless of how you viewed Corbyn’s leadership before the referendum, the party has to decide where it stands now and how it can install the leader who can implement that.

If you think that’s Jeremy, then fine, vote for him, but unless you want to leave the EU you need to make a convincing case that he can either stop Brexit or possesses
the negotiating capabilities to ensure any deal done on leaving will only be a departure in name only. .

(my emphasis)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:24 pm

Have we mentioned here that Seema Malhotra has also resigned?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:25 pm

Yes, but better twice than not at all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:26 pm

A real Brussels correspondent (as opposed to a blonde tosser who makes up stories about bananas etc that some campaigners clearly still believed 25 years on) writes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... ke-greece/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is actually physically, viscerally disgusting, what they've done and failed to do. It somehow gets worse the more I read. Also, I'm with Willow on the relative importance of Remain and Corbyn's mandate. Thursday night changed everything.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

I was going to put Ephemerids hard hitting post on my Lab Facebook page, but there are some really sensitive souls that belong, and it's moderated so if anyone objects it gets removed, so I thought better not, but then I was a coward and posted most of it, but left out the bit about Blair the warmonger....Sorry Ephie. I should have listened to your message, because on another thread discussing all this uproar, someone, posted that he thought Corbyn was a decent nice man but we needed someone with charisma. CHARISMA.
I think he voted for and still reckons Kendall.......

We're doomed. I told him he was the last straw. I've quit their cosy right wing club.

I can't believe it...Charisma?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

yahyah wrote:Yes, but better twice than not at all.

Ha! Re Heidi Alexander's letter - do you feel a sense of responsibility for beginning this wave of "it's still 2015" hysteria?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:28 pm

Breaking: letter circulating among Tory backbenchers calling on 1922 Committee to delay leadership contest

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:29 pm

Philip Collins ‏@PCollinsTimes 3h3 hours ago
Northern Ireland Sec says don't activate Article 50 as "we'll be shut out of important meetings". She voted Leave. Amazing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:Jeremy Corbyn has no comments to make as he leaves his home. I'm not impressed.

He's probably reflecting heavily, PorFavor. He's got to make the decision between accepting the referendum result and attempting to stay as Labour leader or backtracking on his word and not accept the referendum result, either stay as Labour leader or give his undivided support to another Labour leader not accepting the referendum result. His agony must be acute. Seriously.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:30 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I hardly dare post this, but here goes:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How Labour can stop Brexit. On the one hand it's aiming for a unity government/cross-party pro-Remain alliance. On the other, it's not good news for Corbyn.

I don't agree with all he says clearly but he also makes a good case for dealing with the existential crisis we have no

Normal party politics is out of the game now....it is about making sure that the UK exits this period with as little damage done as possible

If there is a concerted approach to overturn the result of the referendum by bringing together those advocating remain then I would be prepared to think about that...much more coherent than a 'get rid of Jeremy' approach

Whether Corbyn could be involved in this is up for debate

This vote was undemocratic....not in the fact that it didn't reflect a majority of the votes cast - but rather that the referendum was not correctly governed (question and mandate) and that it was characterised by lies.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:33 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Philip Collins ‏@PCollinsTimes 3h3 hours ago
Northern Ireland Sec says don't activate Article 50 as "we'll be shut out of important meetings". She voted Leave. Amazing.

I know. It's not reasonable. The broken logic of it all is maddening. Voting Leave and not understanding all the implications of that decision. There's some good news. Our country and the EU aren't literally at war with each other. War is utterly unreasonable and it kills and lays waste. Nothing good comes of war, ever, except the peace following it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:34 pm

@howsillyofme1
Good post.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

It's just "Project Fear" though, right?

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:40 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Haven't loads of MPs been saying 'we have to respect the result'? I don't respect it by the way, I just accept it happened. I have no respect for a majority of those who voted Out (there are some who thought it through and did it on principle which I do retain a respect for).

All those in the Leave areas are saying 'we have to listen to the voters' - meaning we pander to them on immigration because they have not done as much opposing the austerity policies of the Tories as they could, especially 2010-2015

The most controversial comment Corbyn made was when he stated the truth that under the single market rules there was no upper limit to EU immigration - he got jumped on by the party for this by being 'unhelpful' - telling the truth more like it

(cJA edit)

Yes, absolutely correct. But Corbyn is principled. He will do what he says he will do.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 2:40 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"After yesterday’s European referendum, politicians of all parties must listen to and respect the vote. Millions of
voters have rejected a political establishment that has left them behind. Communities that have been hardest hit
by government cuts and economic failure have voted against the status quo.

The first task is to come together and heal the divisions. Our country is divided and things need to change.
Politicians on all sides must respect the decision of the British people.

Ours is the only party that can meet the challenge we now face. Labour is best placed to re-unite the country.
We can only do so because we didn’t engage in project fear, and because we share people’s dissatisfaction with
the status quo. That was why we put a case for both remain and reform.

I will be making clear to both Remain and Leave voters that Labour will fight for the exit negotiations to be
accountable to an open, transparent parliamentary process. And we’ll do everything to secure the best deal for
the people of Britain at every stage.

We cannot leave it to the Conservative Party - who have shown time and again they can’t be trusted to stand up for working people."

- Corbyn
(my emphasis)

That's not going to work for the SNP for a start I can tell you that for sure.

One of my neighbours works for a mega multi-national company. Their workforce is world wide. I asked her what they were going to do about our exit. She said nothing at the moment. They're waiting to see what happens.

There must be hundreds of companies doing the same. That can't be good. If we leave the exit result hanging, these companies won't wait forever and they're the ones that produce the wealth no matter how much we might despise them.

You can't leave a whole country in limbo. I can't see why Corbyn, respecting a democratic verdict, is wrong to want to get it sorted quickly.