Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:38 pm

Been venturing onto various threads

Only argument being made is 'EU have to compromise on free movement' - I think this kills any idea that a proposed solution that keeps us in the Single Market will be acceptable

It seems this is all about immigration...and I guess this is one thing that the EU will not be willing to compromise on (at the moment)

I think once we are gone then the EU-27 may revisit this subject

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

On my F'book feed

: 13510762_1046445175441569_8811148334432671478_n.jpg (145.07 KiB) Viewed 5600 times

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

If Labour MPs want to depose their leader, there's a clear mechanism in the rulebook – find a challenger, and get signatures from 46 MPs for a leadership election. But polls show Corbyn could win a second election, so Hodge and other parliamentary critics of the leadership instead pushed for a secret ballot of MPs. It's a mechanism that flies in the face of Labour's rules, under which MPs have exactly the same vote as any member or registered supporter.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/jeremy-c ... rad-landin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:41 pm

Dan Fox ‏@d4nf0x 4m4 minutes ago
On the bright side, there'll be more biscuits per head at the next Shadow Cabinet meeting.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:43 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ty-eu-exit
business leaders caution against hasty exit

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:43 pm

They are emboldened Toby, But I wonder why the racist only has half a hairdo ?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:46 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
What I mean to say is,if the Labour plp is acting for the good of the country,they would be meeting with Jeremy Corbyn to make a plan of how Labour will respond to Brexit.
Has Jeremy Corbyn called such a meeting, then?
Isn't the next PLP meeting on Tuesday? When that vote of no confidence will take place? The one that was called the day after the vote? Corbyn wasn't exactly given a chance to start thinking about what comes next. The PLP have been chipping at him the whole time, orchestrating difficulties and then gleefully pointing them out. Oh, and wasn't Hilary Benn supposed to be a key figure in the Labour In campaign? Where was he?

Being unimpressed with Corbyn is one thing. Condoning a coup at THE worst possible time is quite another.

Yes, you're right. Has anyone heard of a plan in place for the Labour party MPs and their leader to respond as a team in the event of a Leave outcome on the EU? Did one take place? If it did, it would seem the attendees didn't resolve their disagreements.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:46 pm

Has anyone seen anything from RR on any other forums ?

Just wondering how she is feeling about it all. Maybe she'll pop back.
I did after she shouted at me for posting what I thought was a good news story about Welsh Labour's big investment in a local health project a while back.

I got it in the neck because I didn't realise that Cardigan was losing some services, which she felt irate about. I felt pissed off at being told off, stayed away a few days but came back because I missed you all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:49 pm

yahyah wrote:They are emboldened Toby, But I wonder why the racist only has half a hairdo ?

Symbolic of the 52% / 48% Leave / Remain outcome?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:50 pm

yahyah wrote:They are emboldened Toby, But I wonder why the racist only has half a hairdo ?

He probably has a Polish barber who left the country halfway through his haircut after spotting his t-shirt.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:55 pm

yahyah wrote:They are emboldened Toby, But I wonder why the racist only has half a hairdo ?

It's to match his half a brain.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:55 pm

Good to see that sense of humour still intact Toby.
Laughter will get us through it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 3:59 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 02866.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
London Stays rally - tuesday

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Dan Fox ‏@d4nf0x 4m4 minutes ago
On the bright side, there'll be more biscuits per head at the next Shadow Cabinet meeting.

Ha!
BREAKING NEWS - Eric Pickles says he'll defect to Labour if given Shadow Cabinet post

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Faisal IslamVerified account
‏@faisalislam
Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

Not surprised really - in all of the years that UKIP have been going they didn't have a single coherent idea about what would happen afterwards.

Inexcusable in Tory government to have offered this referendum - simple majority, no minimum percentage voter turnout or vote - followed by having no coherent plan following a Leave vote.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:01 pm

Did IDS really say ''Our (Brexit) promises were a series of possibilities'' ?

Cambridge Dictionary:

Promise: to tell someone you will definitely do something
Possibility: a chance that something might exist, happen, be true.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:01 pm

yahyah wrote:They are emboldened Toby, But I wonder why the racist only has half a hairdo ?

Only half to be sent back? - his choice?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:08 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Faisal IslamVerified account
‏@faisalislam
Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

Not surprised really - in all of the years that UKIP have been going they didn't have a single coherent idea about what would happen afterwards.
Inexcusable in Tory government to have offered this referendum - simple majority, no minimum percentage voter turnout or vote - followed by having no coherent plan following a Leave vote.

Part of the problem is that at least in broadcast media there has to be "balance".

So that for every Leave person or idea there had to be a Remain.

What was actually needed was for Leave to fully explain what they would do post-Brexit. Not just "Well there are a few options" but to say "We've looked into this in detail, talked to the EU, and this is what we propose". And it didn't need Remain to have to say anything.

We got nothing like that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:12 pm

Liam Byrne gave a decent interview on the Labour leadership issue. To cut it short (and to give me a fighting chance to don my Kevlar vest) he said that Jeremy Corbyn was, pre-referendum, fine as leader but now "the job has changed". He's right.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:13 pm

& if the BBC gave as much airtime to Hope Not Hate as they do Farage and UKIP we might be a more tolerant country.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:15 pm

PorFavor wrote:Liam Byrne gave a decent interview on the Labour leadership issue. To cut it short (and to give me a fighting chance to don my Kevlar vest) he said that Jeremy Corbyn was, pre-referendum, fine as leader but now "the job has changed". He's right.

My support for him has waned recently. I'd like a leader who has been fully committed to Remain, and won't roll over for Brexit now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:16 pm

Ooh, this is worth a look on migration!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:20 pm

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:26 pm

David Tomkins ‏@tomkins_d 8m8 minutes ago
Parliament has failed. It has failed to act in the best interests of this nation by failing to give the electorate all the facts. #REGREXIT

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:26 pm

Philip CollinsVerified account
‏@PCollinsTimes

Northern Ireland Sec says don't activate Article 50 as "we'll be shut out of important meetings". She voted Leave. Amazing.

There is something horribly wrong in/with this country.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:29 pm

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Liam Byrne gave a decent interview on the Labour leadership issue. To cut it short (and to give me a fighting chance to don my Kevlar vest) he said that Jeremy Corbyn was, pre-referendum, fine as leader but now "the job has changed". He's right.
My support for him has waned recently. I'd like a leader who has been fully committed to Remain, and won't roll over for Brexit now.

I can see where you are coming from.....but who is this person

If you look you will see that the main criticism of Corbyn seems to be that he is a London metropolitan elitist who doesn't understand the problems of a town like my own Wolverhampton

The issue I see with this is there is only one area where Corbyn would have an issue here - he is clearly more committed to rolling back austerity than many of those opposing him - and that is immigration. Remember the criticism he got for telling the truth about Free Movement

I really do not understand what type of person you are looking for here.....some like Corbyn who is Remainish and is concerned about the EU supranational support of corporations and lack of workers rights and use of austerity. Or a right wing loud-mouthed remainer but who is actually supportive of the principles of austerity and is now trying to come across as a cheap version of Farage on immigration

There is only one thing that will help towns like Wolverhampton - a coherent policy to help after the deindustrialization and support to cope with the immigrants here who are needed to keep the town running.

None of the solutions are particularly linked to the EU apart from the fact that it helps support our national economy and provides some funds to deprived areas that we would never get from the bloody Tories

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:29 pm

Sack 'em all. If we're going down, let's start from scratch afterwards.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:If Labour dies a death over this, I know who to blame. They should be ashamed of themselves.

FFS. (Yes, I've been saying that a lot lately)
(cJA edit)

I don't think your assessment of the Labour party is fair - I think it's more than egos and power now. I think both Corbyn and other Labour MPs (who may or may not be supporting his leadership) are doing what they think is best for country and people.

I don't agree.

The Tories have never been weaker and more chaotic than they are right now.

What is best for this country is not adding to the chaos by internal warfare - it's working together to plan for what happens next.
Whatever it is.

I am so angry I don't know what to do with myself.

I was a member of what I thought was a "liberal party" for decades, and was betrayed by Clegg and his Orange Bookers because they were seduced by a snake-oil salesman into thinking they'd get a whiff of power and a ministerial car.

I joined Labour when Ed became leader because I thought then and think now that he has the makings of a statesman, and both he (and now Corbyn) have been dismissed as useless by a bunch of shits who don't have the courage to take a stand themselves.

Fuck 'em.

Really.

These people are paid handsomely, expensed very generously, get pensions you and I can only dream of, all paid for by us; they're put into positions of power and privilege, given every chance to co-operate with each other for good of the people....and what do they do?

They get a leader who the hoi polloi voted for in their hundreds of thousands, spend best part of a year briefing the media against him, and attempt (on more than one occasion) to oust him when he's had no time to even get started.
Corbyn increased his vote share in his own constituency in the general election, ditto in the local elections, and was one of the few MPs to get more than 70% for Remain. Just what is the problem here? He's not bloody Blair, that's the problem.

If there is another general election, it'll be interesting to see who gets selected by CLPs and who doesn't. This is pathetic.

I don't disagree with most people here usually, especially you, dearest J, but I do on this. This is about them, not us. And it's wrong.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:35 pm

That's what's depressing me HowSilly. Who is it ?

Just wish MPs would pull together and work as a team. For our sake, for the voters, for everyone who suffers under right wing policies. Is that really too much to ask ?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:36 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Ooh, this is worth a look on migration!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tim Montgomerie ن ‏@montie 2h2 hours ago
We need the government to take out adverts in papers and on social media to tackle the uncertainty amongst migrants

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Genius, Tim

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:37 pm

Len McCluskey

'Those Labour MPs plunging their party into an unwanted crisis are betraying not only the party itself but also our national interest at one of the most critical moments any of us can recall.
.........
and also

..if anyone is undemocratic enough to think there can be a new leadership election with the existing leader kept off the ballot,then they are setting the Labour party on course for a split.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:37 pm

Haven't the Tories slashed the budget for public information ads ? Am sure they have.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:40 pm

The get rid of Corbyn plan with no idea of what next is a mirror of the get out of europe with no idea of what comes next and really indicative of the failure of our political class. The naked emperor at the heart of our politics is really being exposed.

I saw the look in Stephen Kinock's eyes earlier as the kid from momentum destroyed his arguments, a look of naked ambition for himself, just as potential Tata buyers in Port Talbot are pulling out cos of the instability in our politics. A better example of the failure of our establishment that that red prince degenerate scion of greed and avarice, I cannot imagine.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wIBynEROEw

I've just listened to this song (One Cool Remove - Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter) to (temporarily) soothe me. Especially after hearing about the accident at the Amusement Park in Strathclyde.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:44 pm

Not having a plan seems to be in the spirit of our times.

You wouldn't run a childrens' birthday party like that, let alone a political party coup or the country.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:44 pm

PorFavor wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wIBynEROEw

I've just listened to this song (One Cool Remove - Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter) to (temporarily) soothe me. Especially after hearing about the accident at the Amusement Park in Strathclyde.

Shawn Colvin is one of my favourite singers ever. In times of stress, I have a habit of losing myself in her 'Set the Prairie on Fire', played over and over.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:44 pm

Will Corbyn lead Labour taking the UK out of the EU?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:46 pm

Temulkar wrote:The get rid of Corbyn plan with no idea of what next is a mirror of the get out of europe with no idea of what comes next and really indicative of the failure of our political class. The naked emperor at the heart of our politics is really being exposed.

I saw the look in Stephen Kinock's eyes earlier as the kid from momentum destroyed his arguments, a look of naked ambition for himself, just as potential Tata buyers in Port Talbot are pulling out cos of the instability in our politics. A better example of the failure of our establishment that that red prince degenerate scion of greed and avarice, I cannot imagine.

'red prince degenerate scion of greed and avarice'?

i hope that line is from one of your books!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:46 pm

Temulkar wrote:The get rid of Corbyn plan with no idea of what next is a mirror of the get out of europe with no idea of what comes next

Must admit that that thought crossed my mind, too. I'm hoping something more concrete emerges fairly swiftly.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:47 pm

citizenJA wrote:Will Corbyn lead Labour taking the UK out of the EU?

Meaning?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:49 pm

Mark Urban (@MarkUrban01)
June 26, 2016
Today's statements in EU27: they're not offering new deal to UK,but urging more time in hope Brit political earthquake causes Brexit rethink

Nobody (serious)* wants this to happen, so why is it?

*apologies in advance to anyone offended. am attempting to remain civil but don't entirely feel it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:49 pm

Temulkar wrote:The get rid of Corbyn plan with no idea of what next is a mirror of the get out of europe with no idea of what comes next and really indicative of the failure of our political class. The naked emperor at the heart of our politics is really being exposed.

I saw the look in Stephen Kinock's eyes earlier as the kid from momentum destroyed his arguments, a look of naked ambition for himself, just as potential Tata buyers in Port Talbot are pulling out cos of the instability in our politics. A better example of the failure of our establishment that that red prince degenerate scion of greed and avarice, I cannot imagine.

Hi Tem

Is there a link to Kinnock's destruction?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:51 pm

Jeremy Corbyn leaving his home this morning. Photograph: Neil Hall/Reuters

That's a beautiful image, just like Corbyn, you know? He's aware of other people, appreciates them.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:52 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Temulkar wrote:The get rid of Corbyn plan with no idea of what next is a mirror of the get out of europe with no idea of what comes next
Must admit that that thought crossed my mind, too. I'm hoping something more concrete emerges fairly swiftly.

Sorry PF I don't think it will happen from this sorry bunch

As I read earlier the best of the Labour Party are from the 2010 and 2015 intake but not ready yet....I think some of those who resigned today may soon start regretting it if Corbyn survives as some may have had a good career ahead of them

Disloyalty may (just) be forgiven over time but I doubt incompetent disloyalty will be

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

Just the one cop. You see how many Boris needed on Friday?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

It's a lovely warm smile from the uniformed man.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:53 pm

Sorry Tiny, not sure what you mean there.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:55 pm

yahyah wrote:It's a lovely warm smile from the uniformed man.

Yes, just beautiful.
People like that all over, Stoke, yahyah, I see people smile like that all the time.
Of course, I have to lift my head, make eye contact and look otherwise I miss it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:55 pm

Coaker gone now...fud!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 4:55 pm

ephemerid wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:If Labour dies a death over this, I know who to blame. They should be ashamed of themselves.

FFS. (Yes, I've been saying that a lot lately)
(cJA edit)

I don't think your assessment of the Labour party is fair - I think it's more than egos and power now. I think both Corbyn and other Labour MPs (who may or may not be supporting his leadership) are doing what they think is best for country and people.
I don't agree.

The Tories have never been weaker and more chaotic than they are right now.

What is best for this country is not adding to the chaos by internal warfare - it's working together to plan for what happens next.
Whatever it is.

I am so angry I don't know what to do with myself.

I was a member of what I thought was a "liberal party" for decades, and was betrayed by Clegg and his Orange Bookers because they were seduced by a snake-oil salesman into thinking they'd get a whiff of power and a ministerial car.

I joined Labour when Ed became leader because I thought then and think now that he has the makings of a statesman, and both he (and now Corbyn) have been dismissed as useless by a bunch of shits who don't have the courage to take a stand themselves.

Fuck 'em.

Really.

These people are paid handsomely, expensed very generously, get pensions you and I can only dream of, all paid for by us; they're put into positions of power and privilege, given every chance to co-operate with each other for good of the people....and what do they do?

They get a leader who the hoi polloi voted for in their hundreds of thousands, spend best part of a year briefing the media against him, and attempt (on more than one occasion) to oust him when he's had no time to even get started.
Corbyn increased his vote share in his own constituency in the general election, ditto in the local elections, and was one of the few MPs to get more than 70% for Remain. Just what is the problem here? He's not bloody Blair, that's the problem.

If there is another general election, it'll be interesting to see who gets selected by CLPs and who doesn't. This is pathetic.

I don't disagree with most people here usually, especially you, dearest J, but I do on this. This is about them, not us. And it's wrong.

Yes, yes, yes.
I have a large lump of fury in my chest. I face an uncertain future and I'm far from alone. I'd like to think there are people in power who give the people who pay them a little of their time and energy in return. I went back to Labour because finally they were at least acknowledging I existed.

More fool me.