Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:02 pm

A review of the Roth novel

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/ ... philiproth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:08 pm

citizenJA wrote:Just the one cop. You see how many Boris needed on Friday?

Saw Corbyn jogging in Finsbury Park a few weekends ago. No security (noticeable, anyway).

That's Corbyn doing the jogging, btw, not me.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:12 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36635012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
more on legal aspects of Scottish veto

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:21 pm

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 13m13 minutes ago

EXCLUSIVE: Labour legal advice shows Corbyn doesn't need any MPs' nominations to fight fresh leadership election

Exclusive: Jeremy Corbyn Automatically On Ballot In Leadership Challenge, Legal Advice Shows
Party’s own legal advice says rules only “reasonably” apply to challengers, not incumbent

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... z9ft6b6gvi

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:24 pm

The UK needs an opposition firmly backing the UK being a part of Europe, even if as a member of the EEA and not the EU.

Corbyn's actions before, but more clearly after, the referendum, show that he is not that person,

If you back Remain, back the 90% of Labour mps who, having seen Corbyns leadership up close, want him replaced,

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:27 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 13m13 minutes ago

EXCLUSIVE: Labour legal advice shows Corbyn doesn't need any MPs' nominations to fight fresh leadership election

Exclusive: Jeremy Corbyn Automatically On Ballot In Leadership Challenge, Legal Advice Shows
Party’s own legal advice says rules only “reasonably” apply to challengers, not incumbent

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... z9ft6b6gvi

I suppose we can add pathetically inept to the rebels now

It's becoming clear that a great many MPs couldn't rustle up a complete brain between the lot of them.
What person starts a coup before checking all the little ins and outs that might crop up?
Ok the man on the street might be seriously ignorant on what to do, but elected MPs?

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:27 pm

I seem to have developed a brain stutter - I keep getting half way through typing and then giving up in anger/ depression. The people being shouted at/about should be cameron and co, the demands for change, leadership and accountability should be made of them. I worry that the realistic need to remain also has a danger of pushing us to ignore the vote. Flawed as it is, based on lies, manipulation and hatred as it is, it is, and will be, presented and perceived as a democratic mandate. This needs to be addressed directly. I fear that any other response will open a deeper pit for farage and co to create in setting their people free. We are faced with the consequences of democratic deficit, propagandists media, unleashed racism and potential violence at the same time as economic meltdown. Seems to me it's the time to try and find ways to address that reality without feeding the sense of powerlessness that appears to underlie it.

That said I think the flouncing SC members deserve to be deselected for failing to represent party and national interests.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:27 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:The UK needs an opposition firmly backing the UK being a part of Europe, even if as a member of the EEA and not the EU.

Corbyn's actions before, but more clearly after, the referendum, show that he is not that person,

If you back Remain, back the 90% of Labour mps who, having seen Corbyns leadership up close, want him replaced,

let us start by getting rid of those MPs who couldn't deliver their own areas for Remain if it matters that much!

Oh and sod off

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:27 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:The UK needs an opposition firmly backing the UK being a part of Europe, even if as a member of the EEA and not the EU.

Corbyn's actions before, but more clearly after, the referendum, show that he is not that person,

If you back Remain, back the 90% of Labour mps who, having seen Corbyns leadership up close, want him replaced,

Shut up Hugo.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:28 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -heseltine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He [Heseltine] called for a cross-party group of MPs to look at the options and “articulate the case for Britain rethinking the result of the referendum”.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:The UK needs an opposition firmly backing the UK being a part of Europe, even if as a member of the EEA and not the EU.

Corbyn's actions before, but more clearly after, the referendum, show that he is not that person,

If you back Remain, back the 90% of Labour mps who, having seen Corbyns leadership up close, want him replaced,

Replaced. With. Who?

Still haven't had an answer to that one. There can't be a leadership challenge until there is an actual challenger with nominations from the PLP.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:33 pm

,
Sailorman @SailormanIan

@JeremyCorbyn4PM : Can we now refer to the Blairites as the "Bisto Kids" so keen are they to stay on Gravy Train at any cost #KeepCorbyn

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the chair of the PLP Remain campaign,

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:40 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

This is the chair of the PLP Remain campaign,

Yes, of course, who was he the bellboy for before he was an MP?

Do you not think he may be part of the coup attempt?

How did he do in persuading his constituents to vote for Remain.....?

Tosser!

Oh, and are you still here? If so, sod off!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:40 pm

Tony Parsons ‏@TonyParsonsUK 49m49 minutes ago

Thank you for your patience. Your "second referendum" will be with you as soon as possible. Current average waiting time - 41 years.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:41 pm

Al Murray just asked if anyone has a VCR of "Threads".

Well I laughed anyroad. Stopped the screaming.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Tony Parsons ‏@TonyParsonsUK 49m49 minutes ago

Thank you for your patience. Your "second referendum" will be with you as soon as possible. Current average waiting time - 41 years.

Parsons is an appalling xenophobic prick and he's just laughing at the sore losers.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 6:53 pm

I've got (much against my better judgement) Question Time on in the background. Dire.

There's still no plan (from anyone). Lots of "at the end of the days", "we are where we ares" "we must come togethers".

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:00 pm

There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:03 pm

Goodness. Mr Ohso has turned over to BBC and the QT about the Referendum...

I don't think it's me; their lip sync is out of whack.

Censorship?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've got (much against my better judgement) Question Time on in the background. Dire.

There's still no plan (from anyone). Lots of "at the end of the days", "we are where we ares" "we must come togethers".

Watch their lips. They're out of sync with their voices.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:07 pm

In a tea down nose moment someone suggested a party of unity to oversee the Referendum.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:09 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've got (much against my better judgement) Question Time on in the background. Dire.

There's still no plan (from anyone). Lots of "at the end of the days", "we are where we ares" "we must come togethers".
Watch their lips. They're out of sync with their voices.

I've just checked, and it looks ok on my TV. I think you'll have to ask Mrohsocynical to pedal harder!

(While I'm on the subject - please say hello to him for me.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:10 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've got (much against my better judgement) Question Time on in the background. Dire.

There's still no plan (from anyone). Lots of "at the end of the days", "we are where we ares" "we must come togethers".

Yes. Party of unity suggested, and they're shouting each other down and can't agree on anything.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:11 pm

mbc1955 wrote:There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.

Just said much the same to my grandad.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:11 pm

mbc1955 wrote:There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.

We are there anyway. I do not believe the only option is to accept it.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Mark Urban (@MarkUrban01)
June 26, 2016
Today's statements in EU27: they're not offering new deal to UK,but urging more time in hope Brit political earthquake causes Brexit rethink
Nobody (serious)* wants this to happen, so why is it?

*apologies in advance to anyone offended. am attempting to remain civil but don't entirely feel it.
Anybody who thinks Brexit is not going to happen is deluding themselves, in my view.

Apparently all Dave has to do to start the official leave countdown is to say to the EU that it is the wish of the B
ritish people to leave the EU.They're not even bothered about having it in writing.
And Dave will be there this week.So who thinks he will manage not to say it?
All this crap about Corbyn not supporting the undoing of the referendum is pointless until the outcome of the meeting.
I think that brexit is the worst thing ever,but our PM told the country that he would abide by the referendum result.
Surely,if we go into a GE refusing to Brexit,the 52% will simply vote ukip?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:12 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've got (much against my better judgement) Question Time on in the background. Dire.

There's still no plan (from anyone). Lots of "at the end of the days", "we are where we ares" "we must come togethers".
Watch their lips. They're out of sync with their voices.
I've just checked, and it looks ok on my TV. I think you'll have to ask Mrohsocynical to pedal harder!

(While I'm on the subject - please say hello to him for me.)

I can't I'm laughing too hard. So's he.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: OK. We have some time to kill so:
What do winnie the pooh and john the baptist have in common?

Can't help think i might be missing The obvious,
but last go:
alternative Guardian names used by Spinning Hugo?

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:14 pm

ohsocynical wrote: One of my neighbours works for a mega multi-national company. Their workforce is world wide. I asked her what they were going to do about our exit. She said nothing at the moment. They're waiting to see what happens.

There must be hundreds of companies doing the same. That can't be good. If we leave the exit result hanging, these companies won't wait forever and they're the ones that produce the wealth no matter how much we might despise them.

You can't leave a whole country in limbo. I can't see why Corbyn, respecting a democratic verdict, is wrong to want to get it sorted quickly.

It seems we're damned if we invoke A50 and damned if we don't.

The only thing that seems to be holding the markets back from a full blown reaction to sterling collapsing and the hit on the FTSE is that there's nothing urgent about invoking A50 and Cameron's said it won't be done until after the Tory conference in October. Or, contrariwise, that the EU can restore stability in its own markets and currency by forcing the UK to activate A50 promptly.

But the greater the sense of the UK in chaos the more likely it is that someone, somewhere will take fright and start unloading sterling like mad, either for real or as a short-selling ploy. Either way, not good.

I don't know about you, but from where I'm sitting the UK is a country, or countries, in an escalating verbal cultural civil war, the two major parties in Parliament are at war with each other and themselves at the same time, there's an absentee PM, a coked-up clapped-out Chancellor, the lead UK Commissioner has resigned and Cameron said he won't be replaced. The Cabinet Secretary has found it necessary to steady the troops and remind them of their duty. And, an implication I missed earlier, passed the veiled message that the civil service is now in deep purdah, of the kind usually reserved for the week before a general election, the pending outbreak of a major war - or an economic disaster.

Oh, and we've had an MP murdered, our social media is full of triumphant and often incoherent Brexiters either bellowing their anger with everything at the rest of the world or reassuring doubters that it will all be wonderful, why be such a downer? While others are appalled at what has happened and yet others see it as an opportune time to overthrow capitalism, despite there being no organisation to lead the socialist revolution. Add to that Farage with his lies, "People's Army" and talk of violence, the escalating racial tension.....

It all looks pretty chaotic to me.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:14 pm

He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real.

From the article just linked to above

That simply isn't true, is it.

I think the PLP had better tell us who would have done a better job than Corbyn and how. We had all the old guard singing the Tory's tune. It DIDN'T work. So what tune should this mythical leader have been singing that would have increased the 63%?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:14 pm

Rebecca wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Nobody (serious)* wants this to happen, so why is it?

*apologies in advance to anyone offended. am attempting to remain civil but don't entirely feel it.
Anybody who thinks Brexit is not going to happen is deluding themselves, in my view.
Apparently all Dave has to do to start the official leave countdown is to say to the EU that it is the wish of the B
ritish people to leave the EU.They're not even bothered about having it in writing.
And Dave will be there this week.So who thinks he will manage not to say it?
All this crap about Corbyn not supporting the undoing of the referendum is pointless until the outcome of the meeting.
I think that brexit is the worst thing ever,but our PM told the country that he would abide by the referendum result.
Surely,if we go into a GE refusing to Brexit,the 52% will simply vote ukip?

We have to brace ourselves because there's no good answer or result...

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:16 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.
We are there anyway. I do not believe the only option is to accept it.

Don't ask me to fight. I won't be on the barricades. I won't be holding a gun, a brick or a bottle and I'll run a mile from anyone who is.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:19 pm

Oh God I've started swearing at the TV.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:27 pm

Karl Turner makes it 10.

If "sabotage" is getting 2/3 of your supporters out to vote for Cameron's referendum, then... Sheez.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:27 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Oh God I've started swearing at the TV.

Gaaaah !

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:29 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.
We are there anyway. I do not believe the only option is to accept it.
Don't ask me to fight. I won't be on the barricades. I won't be holding a gun, a brick or a bottle and I'll run a mile from anyone who is.

I've always behaved myself and until I started toward my dotage wouldn't say boo to a goose. But I always had a hankering to go on a protest and wave a placard. Too late now though. I couldn't stay upright for long enough.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:32 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales
In Gloucester, Max Fras said he was in a Tesco supermarket on Friday night with his young son when a white man became agitated in the queue for the checkout and began yelling: “This is England now, foreigners have 48 hours to fuck right off. Who is foreign here? Anyone foreign?”

We cannot accept this. Acting on the referendum will only endorse this kind of thing.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:37 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Oh God I've started swearing at the TV.

Leave him be, ohso, if it makes him comfortable.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:41 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales
In Gloucester, Max Fras said he was in a Tesco supermarket on Friday night with his young son when a white man became agitated in the queue for the checkout and began yelling: “This is England now, foreigners have 48 hours to fuck right off. Who is foreign here? Anyone foreign?”
We cannot accept this. Acting on the referendum will only endorse this kind of thing.
The genie is out of the bottle. I don't like to think what might happen if people are told we're not leaving after all. Which is not to say I think we should leave, I desperately want us not to, but I can't help feeling that whichever way things go, they are going to get ugly.

Pandora's (Ballot) Box. Not only votes came out when opened up...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:41 pm

Have we had this response from the Foreign Affairs Committee? There's a critical shortage of resources for the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office (FCO). It's been mentioned already, according to the short statement below, in response to Osborne's
2015 Spending Review.

EU referendum result—Chair's comment

Commenting on the results of yesterday's Referendum, the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Crispin Blunt MP, said:

"On Thursday 23 June, 2016, the British people were offered a once in a generation opportunity to decide Britain’s
membership of the European Union. The Foreign Affairs Committee did not endorse either side on the campaign trail,
but published a report which offered balanced analysis. There is now a clear path to follow.

The Committee urges the Government to act swiftly to negotiate Britain’s new relationship with the EU. As detailed
in our report, the UK and EU should seek to negotiate some form of trade deal as quickly as possible.

Withdrawal from the EU will not change the UK’s formal status in other key global and regional alliances but swift
action by the Government and Foreign and Commonwealth Office is essential to open up new opportunities for the UK
to redefine its international role.

The Referendum result has clear implications for the workload of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO).
The Committee produced a report on the 2015 Spending Review in which we noted that the department was severely
short of resources. This shortage is now a crisis.

The FCO needs to be equipped to reassert its leading role in foreign policy-making so that Britain can take its place
on the world stage. Significantly boosting the capacity of the FCO will send a strong signal of the UK’s commitment to
an outward-looking, globally engaged foreign policy."

The Foreign Affairs Committee will hold a post-referendum evidence session on Tuesday 28 June. Details will be
confirmed in due course.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ent-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:46 pm

It's okay now. We've turned over to Football. Much more peaceful.

Diane Abbot wasn't too bad. She cut Dimbleby off when he tried to infer the coup was a protest against Corbyn's handling of the Remain campaign. Said they'd been planning it for months, and chose this weekend on purpose.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:50 pm

@citizenJA

Buried somewhere in the article is the date 28th June (this coming Tuesday) for the next instalment.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:52 pm

Have we had the bit about Momentum planning a pro Corbyn rally outside the PLPs meeting tomorrow?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:54 pm

Incidentally, should Corbyn go today, will he be the first leader in political history to have been kicked out having won every election he's ever stood in?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

PorFavor wrote:@citizenJA

Buried somewhere in the article is the date 28th June (this coming Tuesday) for the next instalment.

Duly noted.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real.
From the article just linked to above

That simply isn't true, is it.

I think the PLP had better tell us who would have done a better job than Corbyn and how. We had all the old guard singing the Tory's tune. It DIDN'T work. So what tune should this mythical leader have been singing that would have increased the 63%?

Diane Abbot said basically it's nothing to do with Corbyn's handling of the Remain vote. It's been in the pipeline for months.
The chaos of the Brexit vote probably made them think it was a good time to strike. Instead t makes them even more foolhardy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:58 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real.
From the article just linked to above

That simply isn't true, is it.

I think the PLP had better tell us who would have done a better job than Corbyn and how. We had all the old guard singing the Tory's tune. It DIDN'T work. So what tune should this mythical leader have been singing that would have increased the 63%?
Diane Abbot said basically it's nothing to do with Corbyn's handling of the Remain vote. It's been in the pipeline for months.
The chaos of the Brexit vote probably made them think it was a good time to strike. Instead t makes them even more foolhardy.

This is disastrous.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 7:59 pm

Check out Rupert Myers and Stewart Jackson MP on Twitter.

Rupert's concern about the lies of the Leave campaign, and their expectation that the losing side accept the mess, met with the reply

"Suck it up whiner".

From a serving MP in the biggest crisis since WW2.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Jun, 2016 8:01 pm

mbc1955 wrote:There's no point 'rethinking' the outcome of the Referendum. I said last week that we were staring at Civil War, and if the country now tries to go against the vote, that's what it will get. And it won't be Parliamentary.

It's too late, though. Cameron's already failed to act. We voted to leave the EU but we haven't. We haven't set a date to leave, just some vague waffle about it being up to the new Tory leader some time in October (presumably, if they feel like it).We are already in limbo. The PM who said he would abide by the result of the referendum hasn't and no one has yet come forward to say they will. If an election is called before article 50 has been invoked, I see no reason why Labour should be bound to honour the result of a referendum that has already been ignored by the party that called it. This is a very unlikely scenario, but this is the attitude I would want to see Labour adopt, not Corbyn's rush to embrace what I can only see as an unmitigated disaster.