Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

[ohsocynical]

You know what is really noticable is that not one of the PLP dares to actually challenge corbyn for the leadership, instead they try a palace coup. Abject cowardice

Not beyond the realm of possibility that they are doing it in an attempt to force Jeremy Corbyn to resign so that he is no longer the incumbent with an automatic place on the ballot. I pretty sure that they did know the rules all along.

In any other workplace this would be called bullying and intimidation...the culprits would be fired straight away

The HoC is not a normal workplace though but it doesn't make their behaviour any less reprehensible.

He knows though that he has the support of the membership and the unions will not let this shambles carry on forever....

I think the unions are pretty solidly behind him.

[Temulkar]

Sorry I dont know how to size it I will have a try - corbyns response

[Temulkar]

I honestly cant see how to, any mods around?

[refitman]

I honestly cant see how to, any mods around?

Tem, all sorted.

[RogerOThornhill]

Good grief...

[Temulkar]

I honestly cant see how to, any mods around?

Tem, all sorted.

Cheers

[Temulkar]

So does anyone think a single rebel will dare challenge for the leadership?

[PorFavor]

Sorry I dont know how to size it I will have a try - corbyns response

It's ok. There's a scroll across arrow (bottom right) so it's not unreadable. Thanks for posting it.

[ohsocynical]

Sorry I dont know how to size it I will have a try - corbyns response

Read earlier as an incumbant his name has to be on the ballot. Haven't seen any names suggested yet on Twitter. Don't think there is anyone lined up yet.

[RogerOThornhill]

Here's the Boris cunning plan...Chrome Incognito as per usual to read it all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... --and-alw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit - a bit light on detail but hey, this is Boris!

[ohsocynical]

I'm off to bed. I've been on this computer so long, I can barely see....Wonder what tomorrow will bring?

Night everyone.

[citizenJA]

Good grief...

[img]cJA%20edit[/img]

What does that have to do with the EU referendum result? This is scaring me. Anything goes. It's insane.

[citizenJA]

I'm off to bed. I've been on this computer so long, I can barely see....Wonder what tomorrow will bring?

Night everyone.

Goodnight, Ohso!

[PorFavor]

@ohsocynical

Night night!

(Just like old times, eh? But it's a struggle.)

[Willow904]

A second referendum is an absolute non-starter. A GE where Labour stand on a 'we will not invoke article 50 if the EU meets the following criteria within 5 years" is, where those criteria are Labour social democratic ones, not Tory neoliberal ones. And that could win Labour the election and see us stay in a truly reformed EU, not Cameron's fantasy one.

If Labour was not so intent on shooting its own head off, they may have even noticed that.

I think they have noticed, it's just that the Eurosceptic Jeremy Corbyn is in the way.

Not even remotely true. Can you not see that the 'Jeremy actually wanted to throw the referendum' narrative is being pushed precisely by those people who are trying to eject him now and have tried to eject him before. He may not have made as many interventions in the referendum as some would have liked but he made plenty, and his pro position was very clear.

I'm disappointed in the justification of betrayal and backstabbing at the very time when party and country most need stability.

Still no answer to my question of why we should trust MPs who will overthrow a leader elected with a huge democratic mandate. How could we ever believe any election promise from any of them? How could we ever trust them to act in the national interest rather than their own?

Corbyn being found by some to be 'lacklustre' isn't good enough cause for this.

I have formed my opinion based on what Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in response to the result. I was not unhappy with his remain campaign but I'm very unhappy with his vision of Labour's stance going forward, where he talked only of getting on with Brexit. I don't support it. Other Labour MPs such as David Lammy and Seema Malhotra have expressed a different view of continuing to fight for EU membership, maybe even going into an election with a pledge to take us back in. What you see as betrayal, I see as a fundamental difference in political point of view. As for overthrowing a leader with a huge democratic mandate, I guess I see no harm in asking Corbyn to win a new mandate for his choice of direction for Labour after this seismic shift in the political landscape, given 63% of Labour voters wished to remain in the EU and so many of his colleagues seem to have a different idea of how Labour should proceed.

[citizenJA]

The chancellor’s whereabouts since the referendum was the subject of much conversation earlier in the evening.

It’s emerged that he will make an early morning statement aimed at trying to reassure financial markets tomorrow.

In a speech to be delivered before the markets open, he will set out how the government intends to
“protect the national interest”, following the referendum result. A Treasury spokesman has said:

"The chancellor will make a statement to provide reassurance about financial and economic stability
in light of the referendum result and the actions that he and the rest of the government will be
taking to protect the national interest over the coming period."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... d83eb4a82b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my emphasis)

I am not reassured.

[citizenJA]

I think they have noticed, it's just that the Eurosceptic Jeremy Corbyn is in the way.

Not even remotely true. Can you not see that the 'Jeremy actually wanted to throw the referendum' narrative is being pushed precisely by those people who are trying to eject him now and have tried to eject him before. He may not have made as many interventions in the referendum as some would have liked but he made plenty, and his pro position was very clear.

I'm disappointed in the justification of betrayal and backstabbing at the very time when party and country most need stability.

Still no answer to my question of why we should trust MPs who will overthrow a leader elected with a huge democratic mandate. How could we ever believe any election promise from any of them? How could we ever trust them to act in the national interest rather than their own?

Corbyn being found by some to be 'lacklustre' isn't good enough cause for this.

I have formed my opinion based on what Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in response to the result. I was not unhappy with his remain campaign but I'm very unhappy with his vision of Labour's stance going forward, where he talked only of getting on with Brexit. I don't support it. Other Labour MPs such as David Lammy and Seema Malhotra have expressed a different view of continuing to fight for EU membership, maybe even going into an election with a pledge to take us back in. What you see as betrayal, I see as a fundamental difference in political point of view. As for overthrowing a leader with a huge democratic mandate, I guess I see no harm in asking Corbyn to win a new mandate for his choice of direction for Labour after this seismic shift in the political landscape, given 63% of Labour voters wished to remain in the EU and so many of his colleagues seem to have a different idea of how Labour should proceed.

Good post - I think leaving the EU is foolhardy.

[PorFavor]

I think they have noticed, it's just that the Eurosceptic Jeremy Corbyn is in the way.

Not even remotely true. Can you not see that the 'Jeremy actually wanted to throw the referendum' narrative is being pushed precisely by those people who are trying to eject him now and have tried to eject him before. He may not have made as many interventions in the referendum as some would have liked but he made plenty, and his pro position was very clear.

I'm disappointed in the justification of betrayal and backstabbing at the very time when party and country most need stability.

Still no answer to my question of why we should trust MPs who will overthrow a leader elected with a huge democratic mandate. How could we ever believe any election promise from any of them? How could we ever trust them to act in the national interest rather than their own?

Corbyn being found by some to be 'lacklustre' isn't good enough cause for this.

I have formed my opinion based on what Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in response to the result. I was not unhappy with his remain campaign but I'm very unhappy with his vision of Labour's stance going forward, where he talked only of getting on with Brexit. I don't support it. Other Labour MPs such as David Lammy and Seema Malhotra have expressed a different view of continuing to fight for EU membership, maybe even going into an election with a pledge to take us back in. What you see as betrayal, I see as a fundamental difference in political point of view. As for overthrowing a leader with a huge democratic mandate, I guess I see no harm in asking Corbyn to win a new mandate for his choice of direction for Labour after this seismic shift in the political landscape, given 63% of Labour voters wished to remain in the EU and so many of his colleagues seem to have a different idea of how Labour should proceed.

Or, "Now we've got that tedious and distasteful business out of the way, I'll just go and wash my hands and then say what I really mean."

[NonOxCol]

Well what CAN you say to this?

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[NonOxCol]

It's the way they tell 'em:

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[PorFavor]

I've gone from (not voting for but) supporting Jeremy Corbyn to being really irritated and pissed off by him.

[RogerOThornhill]

This seems to be a general reaction to Boris risible load of nonsense.

Jonathan Portes ‏@jdportes 7m7 minutes ago
Boris calls for free trade, free movement for Brits to Europe - & points-based migration to UK. Laughable.

and

Rafael Behr ‏@rafaelbehr 7m7 minutes ago
Boris confirms he wants free movement and the single market. Otherwise known as "membership of the European Union."

[citizenJA]

It's the way they tell 'em:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexiteers want Chancellor Jeff, they can have him.

[Willow904]

Not even remotely true. Can you not see that the 'Jeremy actually wanted to throw the referendum' narrative is being pushed precisely by those people who are trying to eject him now and have tried to eject him before. He may not have made as many interventions in the referendum as some would have liked but he made plenty, and his pro position was very clear.

I'm disappointed in the justification of betrayal and backstabbing at the very time when party and country most need stability.

Still no answer to my question of why we should trust MPs who will overthrow a leader elected with a huge democratic mandate. How could we ever believe any election promise from any of them? How could we ever trust them to act in the national interest rather than their own?

Corbyn being found by some to be 'lacklustre' isn't good enough cause for this.

I have formed my opinion based on what Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in response to the result. I was not unhappy with his remain campaign but I'm very unhappy with his vision of Labour's stance going forward, where he talked only of getting on with Brexit. I don't support it. Other Labour MPs such as David Lammy and Seema Malhotra have expressed a different view of continuing to fight for EU membership, maybe even going into an election with a pledge to take us back in. What you see as betrayal, I see as a fundamental difference in political point of view. As for overthrowing a leader with a huge democratic mandate, I guess I see no harm in asking Corbyn to win a new mandate for his choice of direction for Labour after this seismic shift in the political landscape, given 63% of Labour voters wished to remain in the EU and so many of his colleagues seem to have a different idea of how Labour should proceed.

Or, "Now we've got that tedious and distasteful business out of the way, I'll just go and wash my hands and then say what I really mean."

I'm not sure it was as bad as that. I defended him when people criticised his remain campaign. I think he was genuine enough about his reluctant "in". It's just his ability to accept an "out" vote isn't where I'm at. And his idea that he can influence the terms of our EU exit seems naively optimistic to me. We're just on completely different pages now and even my husband, who was always much more pro-Corbyn than me, was deeply unimpressed by that speech. It didn't address any of the fears and concerns of a party which voted by a majority for the opposite of what's now happening. It expressed none of the anger towards the absent, derelict Tory government for inflicting this on us against our will. It completely lacked the statesmanship and reassurance you expect from a leader and that we've seen from Nicola Sturgeon. My husband thought he looked like he was speaking at a council meeting. That he will stay because the members will vote for him again seems inevitable, but I would at least like to see that tested before giving up on Labour for the foreseeable future.

[RogerOThornhill]

And this...

Owen Barder ‏@owenbarder 15m15 minutes ago London, England
This op-ed by Boris Johnson is delusional. When will he start facing up to the choices we must now take?

Barder's background?

@owenbarder
Vice President & Eu@owenbarder
Vice President & Europe Director @CGDev. Visiting Prof at LSE. Ex No.10, Treasury & DFID. Likes economics, evidence, ending poverty. Feminist because it's 2016.


Oh dear...

[NonOxCol]

Think carefully before clicking on this, it really is depressing as all hell:

https://twitter.com/jimalkhalili" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

I have formed my opinion based on what Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in response to the result. I was not unhappy with his remain campaign but I'm very unhappy with his vision of Labour's stance going forward, where he talked only of getting on with Brexit. I don't support it. Other Labour MPs such as David Lammy and Seema Malhotra have expressed a different view of continuing to fight for EU membership, maybe even going into an election with a pledge to take us back in. What you see as betrayal, I see as a fundamental difference in political point of view. As for overthrowing a leader with a huge democratic mandate, I guess I see no harm in asking Corbyn to win a new mandate for his choice of direction for Labour after this seismic shift in the political landscape, given 63% of Labour voters wished to remain in the EU and so many of his colleagues seem to have a different idea of how Labour should proceed.

Or, "Now we've got that tedious and distasteful business out of the way, I'll just go and wash my hands and then say what I really mean."

I'm not sure it was as bad as that. I defended him when people criticised his remain campaign. I think he was genuine enough about his reluctant "in". It's just his ability to accept an "out" vote isn't where I'm at. And his idea that he can influence the terms of our EU exit seems naively optimistic to me. We're just on completely different pages now and even my husband, who was always much more pro-Corbyn than me, was deeply unimpressed by that speech. It didn't address any of the fears and concerns of a party which voted by a majority for the opposite of what's now happening. It expressed none of the anger towards the absent, derelict Tory government for inflicting this on us against our will. It completely lacked the statesmanship and reassurance you expect from a leader and that we've seen from Nicola Sturgeon. My husband thought he looked like he was speaking at a council meeting. That he will stay because the members will vote for him again seems inevitable, but I would at least like to see that tested before giving up on Labour for the foreseeable future.

I didn't criticise his referendum campaign or attempt to blame him for the outcome. It's what he's said and not said subsequently that leads me to believe that he was doing what he did under sufference.

[PorFavor]

Think carefully before clicking on this, it really is depressing as all hell:

https://twitter.com/jimalkhalili" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't - but wish now that I had.

[mbc1955]

Think carefully before clicking on this, it really is depressing as all hell:

https://twitter.com/jimalkhalili" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the fears I expressed about the Leave vote was that it would lead to people believing that it was once again ok to shout 'N***er' in the street. It looks like I wasn't exaggerating.

[NonOxCol]

And this...

Owen Barder ‏@owenbarder 15m15 minutes ago London, England
This op-ed by Boris Johnson is delusional. When will he start facing up to the choices we must now take?

Barder's background?

@owenbarder
Vice President & Eu@owenbarder
Vice President & Europe Director @CGDev. Visiting Prof at LSE. Ex No.10, Treasury & DFID. Likes economics, evidence, ending poverty. Feminist because it's 2016.


Oh dear...

The man is a delusional, dangerous idiot and an absolute disgrace. I realise this is nothing new to most of us, but FFS can more people PLEASE recognise this?

I'm nicking someone else's line here, but he's so far out of his depth fish with lights are looking down at him.

[Willow904]

Or, "Now we've got that tedious and distasteful business out of the way, I'll just go and wash my hands and then say what I really mean."

I'm not sure it was as bad as that. I defended him when people criticised his remain campaign. I think he was genuine enough about his reluctant "in". It's just his ability to accept an "out" vote isn't where I'm at. And his idea that he can influence the terms of our EU exit seems naively optimistic to me. We're just on completely different pages now and even my husband, who was always much more pro-Corbyn than me, was deeply unimpressed by that speech. It didn't address any of the fears and concerns of a party which voted by a majority for the opposite of what's now happening. It expressed none of the anger towards the absent, derelict Tory government for inflicting this on us against our will. It completely lacked the statesmanship and reassurance you expect from a leader and that we've seen from Nicola Sturgeon. My husband thought he looked like he was speaking at a council meeting. That he will stay because the members will vote for him again seems inevitable, but I would at least like to see that tested before giving up on Labour for the foreseeable future.

I didn't criticise his referendum campaign or attempt to blame him for the outcome. It's what he's said and not said subsequently that leads me to believe that he was doing what he did under sufference.

Ah yes, I can see that. Maybe he was much more reluctant about campaigning for "in" than I realised at the time. Either way, his lack of enthusiasm for the EU is a real problem for anyone who wants to fight to remain, especially as he's already conceded to the leavers and I'm not going to be able support him anymore because of that. He's unlikely to change tack on that, so the only hope for me now is that he's somehow ousted, however unconscionable RobertSnozers thinks that is. These are not normal times.

Edited to add, when I say these are not normal times, I mean when Corbyn was elected his views on what to do post-Brexit vote weren't really put up for people to vote on that I remember, because no one anticipated the extraordinary situation we now time ourselves in where the Tories encouraged people to vote out, but now seem strangely reluctant to act on it.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I see Corbyn's behaviour somewhat differently, which doesn't make it any better or worse.

I do think he has a profound belief in what he sees as democracy. So he can't resign, because that would betray everyone who voted for him. Likewise, in the absence of a second referendum, Corbyn feels he HAS to respect the popular vote, which whether we like it (or he likes it) or not is Leave.

Do bear in mind that I'm an ardent Europhile and did not vote for Corbyn, but I'm not sure of the wisdom of Labour appearing to stand against the popular will of the people.

Without a doubt the whole thing is a shambles of unprecedented proportions in my lifetime. How can anyone be sure what the right thing to do is?

[NonOxCol]

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[Willow904]

And on PaulfromYorkshire's very philosophical note I think I'll say goodnight. Hopefully someone will know what to do in the morning!

[citizenJA]

I see Corbyn's behaviour somewhat differently, which doesn't make it any better or worse.

I do think he has a profound belief in what he sees as democracy. So he can't resign, because that would betray everyone who voted for him. Likewise, in the absence of a second referendum, Corbyn feels he HAS to respect the popular vote, which whether we like it (or he likes it) or not is Leave.

Do bear in mind that I'm an ardent Europhile and did not vote for Corbyn, but I'm not sure of the wisdom of Labour appearing to stand against the popular will of the people.

Without a doubt the whole thing is a shambles of unprecedented proportions in my lifetime. How can anyone be sure what the right thing to do is?

Very fair, Paul, well said.

[citizenJA]

And on PaulfromYorkshire's very philosophical note I think I'll say goodnight. Hopefully someone will know what to do in the morning!

Goodnight, Willow!

[NonOxCol]

So anyway, what were we saying about the risible role of the British news media in this total clusterfuck?

Allegra Stratton Verified account 
‏@ITVAllegra
Boris emphasises work on living wage + life chances. Which is smart. He needs to run as liberal lefty-ish Brexiteer

I can't, even ... I mean.... HOW do you even get close to interpreting him in this way?

[RogerOThornhill]

So anyway, what were we saying about the risible role of the British news media in this total clusterfuck?

Allegra Stratton Verified account 
‏@ITVAllegra
Boris emphasises work on living wage + life chances. Which is smart. He needs to run as liberal lefty-ish Brexiteer

I can't, even ... I mean.... HOW do you even get close to interpreting him in this way?

People on the living wage or minimum wage need to remember that, if they could, they'd pay you even less..

[RogerOThornhill]

And yes, the point about experts was made by several...

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

[NonOxCol]

I was not aware of Philip Collins of the Times before this weekend. He's now my Twitter hero.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I still feel very sad and very fucking angry.

[NonOxCol]

Charlie Brooker Verified account 
‏@charltonbrooker
It's great to be a proud citizen of the world's leading cautionary tale.