Monday 27th June 2016

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:21 am

Willow904 wrote:
James Lyons
James Lyons‏ @STJamesl

Filling shadow Cabinet with Corbynistas will fuel resignations, predicts neutral Labour source.
I so wish I was a member of the SNP or even the Libdems right now. I agree with their party's leaders responses to the referendum more than my own and both have made much more substantial and statesmanlike speeches than the leader of the Labour party. While those Labour members on the left get indignant about process and the unfairness of Corbyn being unable to retain the confidence of the PLP, none of them seem to be willing to accept the central point - 63% of Labour supporters wanted to remain in the EU while the party leader has wanted to leave for much of his career. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me this is about an awful lot more than his being 'lacklustre'. I felt thoroughly let down by his speech on Saturday.

As you know, I am one of the £3 Corbynista, am not now and have never been a member of the Labour Party....but with Corbyn there is/was hope (and not the one just North of Peterborough

) that, finally, someone would take on the Austerity bullsh1t....and I'm convinced that the coup is a coup that has been planned for many months (probably at least since the Syria vote)...so we disagree on a few things....but on this, I agree - it wasn't the speech of a leader...and, to a degree, showed his inability to be authoritatively decisive....however - he has been leader for less than a year, this country, Europe and the rest of the world are now in turmoil so for me, even if Corbyn was a plant pot or a tub of lard, the timing is atrocious and not a little bit suspect. (I also believe(TM) that in a purely political sense, out there in the wider malaise, he's the only one (of the party leaders we have left) who can carry the 'Outers' as well.)

In other news, Barclays shares been allowed back off the naughty step following being suspended after a fall of 11% and the European banks are 'being pummelled'....if only there was an opposition to point out the gross incompetence and failure of our ruling elite....but they've decided not to do that.

Can I just say as well - nothing I write is intended to annoy/upset anyone - I have the greatest respect for all in here, and I felt possibly that my rant about Tory Blur and his foreign adventures with Uncle Rupert and Dubya yesterday could be taken as an insult to those with a different opinion, so apologies if I've stepped over the line (and if/when I step over the line in future, which I'm sure I inadvertently will

)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:21 am

I just want a leader of the Labour party who is disappointed by the result of the referendum. Ed Miliband would have been gutted. It would have been in his demeanour. Corbyn looked like he was addressing a council meeting having just lost a vote to build a bypass. "Oh well, we'll respect your decision, what's next on the agenda". It's not a logical thing, it's an emotion thing. He's lost my confidence and my support. If I'm the only one, then Corbyn will survive, win a new leadership election and make a success of the party, but I will never be happy about supporting Labour as long as he's in charge, that's all I'm saying. I'm sure you can all accept that. I'm not on board with this in the way many weren't on board with Blair.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

Trading in Barclays and RBS shares was suspended on Monday morning following heavy losses on the London Stock Exchange.

Barclays share price was down 10.3 per cent and RBS was down 15 per cent on Monday, triggering automatic circuit breakers that kick in when a share price falls more than 8 per cent.

The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:23 am

Morning All

Some excellent points being made here.

I do hope we can hold together and respect others' views. It's not at all obvious to me what the right way forward is for Labour and I'm welcoming the range of opinions.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:25 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Up until the weekend we were told ad nauseam that Labour had a problem with its traditional heartlands, capped with the referendum which we were told was lost because Labour failed to persuade its traditional voters in the NE to vote Remain.

All those people calling for Labour to campaign on the basis of not taking the UK out of the EU must be prepared to accept that it will represent a massive 'screw you' to these voters. The party will not get them back. You cannot blame Corbyn for not winning them over and then blame Corbyn for not telling them to piss off anyway.

Oh, I'm sick of this

60% of labour voters voted remain. Screw them, instead?

I'm not being critical of your point, which is a good one, but surely it works both ways.

Anyone else finding themselves a bit reluctant to sleep, because when you wake up the full horror unfolds all over again?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:28 am

I know they're widely despised, but I have some sympathy:

#Brexit comment from Banker friend: 'We've just sorted our financial crisis, now we have amateurs re-enacting it like it's the Civil War'

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
gilsey wrote: I've been wondering what the line would have been if remain had won, which was surely what they expected. Presumably that it was too close.

It would have been bad enough in that situation, but they should have called it off in the interests of the country.

I'll never believe that they've acted in protest at his response to the result, they'd have needed time to think about it. Very few of them would have the guts to take the Lammy line, imo.
If Remain had won, Cameron would not have resigned and the coup would have been out on hold until such time as Cameron stepped down. IMO of course. Would have made no sense at all to run against Corbyn at that point.

So Cameron's resignation is the trigger, not the EUref? That makes it even more obvious that they should have called it off.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

For those people who do believe this coup is a charming and spontaneous event for the good of the country,all I can say is I hope Father Christmas is good to you this year.
If Labour had done badly in May as was widely predicted,do you think this same style coup wouldn't have happened?
It has been planned for months.I would stake my life on that.They have simply been waiting for an opportunity.
I think Corbyn should sack the buggars,like Mrs Ohso suggests,and let people apply who have a little more decency.
I am going to maintain my membership for now in the event of a leadership election and vote for Jeremy Corbyn again,just for the fun of watching the blairites wangle their way out of another Corbyn win.
Mrs Ohso,I'm posting those two books today.
To be read in order 1)the crossing places 2)the janus stone

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:31 am

NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

Trading in Barclays and RBS shares was suspended on Monday morning following heavy losses on the London Stock Exchange.

Barclays share price was down 10.3 per cent and RBS was down 15 per cent on Monday, triggering automatic circuit breakers that kick in when a share price falls more than 8 per cent.
The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.

And in the eight minutes since I posted that, sterling is down a further half cent against $ and quarter cent against €.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:32 am

NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

Trading in Barclays and RBS shares was suspended on Monday morning following heavy losses on the London Stock Exchange.

Barclays share price was down 10.3 per cent and RBS was down 15 per cent on Monday, triggering automatic circuit breakers that kick in when a share price falls more than 8 per cent.
The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.

So much for Gideon calming the markets this morning

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:35 am

fedup59 wrote:The referendum vote was to leave. I'm not happy about it but that's tough I actually believe that if the publicly stated, or inferred but believed by voters, outcome of this would be a straightforward in or out decision then that is what it should be. If weasel words, hidden in the detail, can be used to ducK it then the space between political power and democratic choice becomes a vacuum that destroys any pretence that democracy is our live political system.

I hate to say it but that even pushes me towards arguing that the SNP don't have the right to be arguing for a second ref and I live in Scotland and want to stay in the EU. I also happen to believe in the democratic rights of the people to make crap choices.

HindleA agrees with you, I think.

I actually wish I could feel the same way, genuinely. I think I shall have to try.

I think the struggle I have is to accept that referendums have any place in a democracy.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

UK 10-year yield falls below 1% for first time.

Ever.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

Well...tipping point?

Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 53s53 seconds ago
Tom Watson's told Corbyn he has no authority in PLP

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:44 am

danesclose wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.
So much for Gideon calming the markets this morning

Oh come on danesclose it would have been so much worse without George

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:46 am

Good-morning, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:48 am

RobertSnozers wrote:So is Corbyn's position even tenable any more? If what looks like a substantial part of the PLP is going to use all their energies fighting their leader and not the Tories. Even the Orange Bookers weren't this disrespectful to their own party.

I'm in and out of the kitchen baking so not keeping up with events, and the clarity of thought I woke with has abandoned me, but earlier, a Tweet gave Corbyn's new shadow cabinet and they're all [which if you come to think of it, is all there is left] left wingers.

Suddenly, if he can keep it together, it appears the right have painted themselves into a corner and will now have no say in how they think things ought to be done...

I believe it's called an own goal.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:49 am

gilsey wrote:
fedup59 wrote:The referendum vote was to leave. I'm not happy about it but that's tough I actually believe that if the publicly stated, or inferred but believed by voters, outcome of this would be a straightforward in or out decision then that is what it should be. If weasel words, hidden in the detail, can be used to ducK it then the space between political power and democratic choice becomes a vacuum that destroys any pretence that democracy is our live political system.

I hate to say it but that even pushes me towards arguing that the SNP don't have the right to be arguing for a second ref and I live in Scotland and want to stay in the EU. I also happen to believe in the democratic rights of the people to make crap choices.
HindleA agrees with you, I think.

I actually wish I could feel the same way, genuinely. I think I shall have to try.

I think the struggle I have is to accept that referendums have any place in a democracy.

Was discussing this last point last night. A friend pointed out that Ireland has a lot of referendums and he feels it has improved political engagement there.

I pointed out that it hadn't gone so well on th EU! Didn't they have a rerun to get the right answer?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:50 am

Osborne says he favours delaying triggering Article 50 -- to start the process of leaving the EU – until it’s clear what the terms would be.

It looks to me like you start negotiating the terms after you trigger art50, he's as big a clown as Boris.

I'm following the business blog today, can't face AS.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:54 am

Just ticked below €1.20.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:55 am

It’s never nice to see a company’s share price tumble.

But some people might make an exception for Foxtons, the notoriously aggressive London estate agent. Its shares have plunged by 20% this morning, after warning that Brexit uncertainty will hurt its profits.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:56 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Some excellent points being made here.

I do hope we can hold together and respect others' views. It's not at all obvious to me what the right way forward is for Labour and I'm welcoming the range of opinions.

I'm in agreement with you, Paul. This community is a rare, precious place. Please, no one go away. We'll work it out. I learn from you all. Rebeccariots2, seeingclearly, I hope you both are well and I beg you both to write again soon if you're able to do so.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:57 am

NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

Trading in Barclays and RBS shares was suspended on Monday morning following heavy losses on the London Stock Exchange.

Barclays share price was down 10.3 per cent and RBS was down 15 per cent on Monday, triggering automatic circuit breakers that kick in when a share price falls more than 8 per cent.
The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.

Way back in the halcyon days of my youth, when Mr Ohso and I were first married and he was still in the USAF, the exchange rate usually ran at about $1 43. It used to vary a few cents and I don't know why I remember that, but it's probably because I used to have to convert his US pay into English housekeeping money. Eventually, if I have to repeat them enough, some numbers stick.

I can't remember it ever being this low.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 10:58 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:
fedup59 wrote:The referendum vote was to leave. I'm not happy about it but that's tough I actually believe that if the publicly stated, or inferred but believed by voters, outcome of this would be a straightforward in or out decision then that is what it should be. If weasel words, hidden in the detail, can be used to ducK it then the space between political power and democratic choice becomes a vacuum that destroys any pretence that democracy is our live political system.

I hate to say it but that even pushes me towards arguing that the SNP don't have the right to be arguing for a second ref and I live in Scotland and want to stay in the EU. I also happen to believe in the democratic rights of the people to make crap choices.
HindleA agrees with you, I think.

I actually wish I could feel the same way, genuinely. I think I shall have to try.

I think the struggle I have is to accept that referendums have any place in a democracy.
Was discussing this last point last night. A friend pointed out that Ireland has a lot of referendums and he feels it has improved political engagement there.

I pointed out that it hadn't gone so well on th EU! Didn't they have a rerun to get the right answer?

I agree that referenda are not an effective way of making choices but our elected (by an equally crap system) government put this in place so it became part of the decision making process. I feel the arguments being put forward to change its perceived status now are getting pretty close to those used in the 19 and early 20 centuries to argue against the extension of the franchise.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:00 am

ohsocynical wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.
Way back in the halcyon days of my youth, when Mr Ohso and I were first married and he was still in the USAF, the exchange rate usually ran at about $1 43. It used to vary a few cents and I don't know why I remember that, but it's probably because I used to have to convert his US pay into English housekeeping money. Eventually, if I have to repeat them enough, some numbers stick.

I can't remember it ever being this low.

It almost hit parity with the dollar in 1985. But apart from that, not this low in at least 45 years.

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollhist-graph2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:01 am

The TV weather forecaster has just said that today will, for many of us, be the best day of the week. Who's with him?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:02 am

Good to see someone is so busy at work that he has the time to keep his eyes firmly on this place to see what we're howling (sic) about now.

Must be great to have a job like that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:02 am

I think there are good reasons to oppose the EU referendum result. I think the UK leaving the EU is a terrible thing and should be avoided.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:02 am

Jess Phillips. At the age of 72, I think I am justified in saying 'Silly little girl'.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

PorFavor wrote:The TV weather forecaster has just said that today will, for many of us, be the best day of the week. Who's with him?

The weather here at the moment is stunning, lovely, sunshine, air quality excellent. How's your weather?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

To everyone here saying, probably very democratically and very correctly, that we must respect the result of the referendum, I do understand and respect what you're saying, it's just that the Tories have been trying to take us out of the EU for years and they've finally done it. I've fought the Tories my entire life and I'm not going to stop now. The people who voted to take us out were Tories, egged on by Tories like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove and Ukip voters, whipped up by Tories like Farage and Neil Hamilton. I don't respect their decision and I will continue to fight it. I don't want to be in a party that panders to those who want to stop immigration and tear up "red tape" like health and safety and workers rights and a party that supports Lexit will have the backing of only a very small minority and will quickly become irrelevant. People are already changing their minds about voting out and more will too when they start to understand what they have voted for, so very quickly those parties saying leaving is a mistake could be speaking for a majority of people and they will definitely be speaking for me and I fervently hope Labour will be brave enough to be one of them and stop worrying about racist working class voters in Labour heartlands who won't be coming back anyway as long as Diane Abbott, Sadiq Khan and Seema Malhotra are leading Labour figures. The Tories are the ones who wanted to leave so let them do it and oppose them all the way, pointing out that they and the Tory and Ukip voters who voted for it are making a big mistake....

minch · Post by **minch** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:05 am

ohsocynical wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Project Fear eh?

Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

The pound has also lost another cent (rounded) against the € and USD in the last hour: now €1.20 and $1.33 to 2 d.p.
Way back in the halcyon days of my youth, when Mr Ohso and I were first married and he was still in the USAF, the exchange rate usually ran at about $1 43. It used to vary a few cents and I don't know why I remember that, but it's probably because I used to have to convert his US pay into English housekeeping money. Eventually, if I have to repeat them enough, some numbers stick.

I can't remember it ever being this low.

On Google finance
https://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=GBPU ... sgHGkYvYCw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hit the all button to see back to 2000
If Exchange rate is an indication of how well we are doing relative to the USA see what was happening before 2008 and afterwards

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:08 am

Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:10 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......

DFH?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:11 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......

Bacon sandwich > wilfully destructive lies, cowardice and laughable incompetence though, eh?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:12 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......
DFH?

Nah, *he* would never admit to that even if the country ended up an irradiated wasteland.

minch · Post by **minch** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:14 am

Exchange rate going back further. On 26/02/85 it was 1.042!
Go here
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/ ... G0Xtop.y=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
for the raw data

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:15 am

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:The TV weather forecaster has just said that today will, for many of us, be the best day of the week. Who's with him?
The weather here at the moment is stunning, lovely, sunshine, air quality excellent. How's your weather?

Hello. Warm, sunny and breezy here. Very pleasant.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:16 am

Hi Willow, I understand what you are saying, but take a second to imagine what you would be thinking had the result been 52-48 the other way and Farage was in full screeching mode about stolen elections, MI5 and fricking pencils.

Unless there is a general election soon, we have absolutely no way of stopping this from happening. If there is a general election soon, Labour are now 100% guaranteed to lose it even if they get their 'moderate' leader in place in time. A moderate is NOT going to win back the Labour heartlands or Scotland, particularly when they've risen to power in a backstabbing coup and particularly when the message they will be giving the 27% Labour leavers is that their views don't count at all.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:16 am

They want him to resign so he can't stand against them and renew his mandate.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:16 am

Pound has rallied somewhat since hitting new 31-year-low of $1.3217.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:17 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......

I supported him all the way when he refused to give in to pressure to offer an EU referendum in the Labour manifesto. It undoubtedly cost him votes but he almost managed to win without them.

As I said above, the Tories have wanted this for a long time and they are in government so it's up to them to do it, not anyone else. If an election is called before article 50 is invoked, those who want Brexit to go ahead will have to vote for the parties pledging to do it, but it is completely possible that Boris/Gove/May or whoever could drag this out for some years, especially if the intention is, as I suspect, to destabilise the EU to the point it collapses, which would handily resolve a lot of the Tories' problems and as such can't be ruled out.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:20 am

Rebecca wrote:For those people who do believe this coup is a charming and spontaneous event for the good of the country,all I can say is I hope Father Christmas is good to you this year.
If Labour had done badly in May as was widely predicted,do you think this same style coup wouldn't have happened?
It has been planned for months.I would stake my life on that.They have simply been waiting for an opportunity.
I think Corbyn should sack the buggars,like Mrs Ohso suggests,and let people apply who have a little more decency.
I am going to maintain my membership for now in the event of a leadership election and vote for Jeremy Corbyn again,just for the fun of watching the blairites wangle their way out of another Corbyn win.
Mrs Ohso,I'm posting those two books today.
To be read in order 1)the crossing places 2)the janus stone

You are lovely. Thank you.

And I agree with your points, and it's exactly what I'm going to do.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:20 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Some in the MSM are now starting to admit that voting in Miliband as PM last year might not have been such a bad idea......

Oh hindsight don't you love it. If I'd known Labour would lose the election would I have voted to stay part of the UK? If I'd known brexit would win would I have voted yes to independence? If scotland had voted for independence would brexit have had a chance of winning or would the sniggers about scottish self harm and being blocked from joining have focused ruk minds on how daft the Scots were. Alternative histories to be available at a book store near you in the near future.

Morning all by the way

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:21 am

Boris Johnson lying again. He's said that everything is wonderful and that George Osborne has just ruled out an emergency (austerity) budget. George Osborne did no such thing. He said that it would come (a bit) later. Like everything else, we must march to the rhythm of the Conservative Party Conference. Which is only right . . .

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:22 am

NonOxCol wrote:Just ticked below €1.20.

Ouch.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:22 am

So, step forward Lisa Nandy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:23 am

Oh - good morfternoon.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:23 am

frightful_oik wrote:They want him to resign so he can't stand against them and renew his mandate.

That's exactly it.

Imagine the situation should Corbyn refuse to resign, and then wins another leadership contest. That's going to be a disaster for the Labour Party. It'll show for certain that the PLP has completely lost the confidence of the party's members (if it hasn't already).

I hate to say it, but as much as I would like Corbyn to be belligerent enough to go to a leadership election so I can be part of the movement that gives these self-entitled arseholes in the PLP a right bloody nose, he's got to resign otherwise the Labour Party is done. Finished. Kaput. Over. And as much as that is something that is actually needed so it can be rebuilt anew with people who aren't a bunch of complete idiots, this is not the time for it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:25 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:They want him to resign so he can't stand against them and renew his mandate.
That's exactly it.

Imagine the situation should Corbyn refuse to resign, and then wins another leadership contest. That's going to be a disaster for the Labour Party. It'll show for certain that the PLP has completely lost the confidence of the party's members (if it hasn't already).

I hate to say it, but as much as I would like Corbyn to be belligerent enough to go to a leadership election so I can be part of the movement that gives these self-entitled arseholes in the PLP a right bloody nose, he's got to resign otherwise the Labour Party is done. Finished. Kaput. Over. And as much as that is something that is actually needed so it can be rebuilt anew with people who aren't a bunch of complete idiots, this is not the time for it.

In a battle between the PLP and the CLP, who "is" the party?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 11:26 am

OK, funeral time. Catch you all later.