Monday 27th June 2016

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 1:58 pm

NYT v Andrew Neil and Carole Malone (and Hartley-Brewer and Mensch and Young and so on). It's a tough one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/opini ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 1:59 pm

Tory leader by 2nd September.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 1:59 pm

If you think about it the Tory elite hollowed out their party and paid cash for the ground work, the libdem elite told the majority of their activists to bugger off and now the Labour elite has told theirs the same. The greens and the snp (and I hate to say it but ukip) have engaged with people and every time have managed to upend the system in some way. I think the greens' weakness out of the three has been partly down to a less explicitly direct way of connecting to day to day concerns as well as to media antagonism.

The organisational structures that used to embed party politics (unions, community organisation, local social and professional networks) have been deliberately destroyed or undermined and social media isn't strong enough to recreate them, and is under attack already. I think there is a hunger for political engagement but there is a vested interest in keeping it ill informed, unorganised and ad hoc.

I really do not want a democracy that allows political elites to claim to be be representative when they represent nothing more than the views of people like them. I sometimes wonder what the reaction would be if I was in charge of a cabinet that had 7 or 8 people from my old comprehensive school. Apart from me running to the hills and howling at the moon I rather people might think it was a bit iffy.

Anyway I think I'm saying is that the old political anchors are gone already, some parties have created new ones and come out ahead, others have decided it's a useful vacuum in which to claim validity, but there's a lot of people seeking new political spaces and it is dangerous not to engage with that'

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 1:59 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
Angela Eagle, who resigned earlier as shadow business secretary, is on the World at One now explaining her decision. She sounds close to tears.

She tried to make it work, she says. During the deputy leadership contest she said she would serve the new leader. But Jeremy Corbyn is not suited to the job, she says. During the EU referendum he could not communicate Labour’s message properly.
Raises eyebrow. I and anyone who was paying attention to it understood Labour's message perfectly well.

Or does she mean that there was a different Labour message? The one that was identical to the Tory's that no one was listening to because it was so shrill?

In their arrogance have they ever wondered if its them who can't make it work, and not him? Seems strange it's all the malcontents who've been sniping since day one. What she really means is he's not doing what the right want.
And that fucking Blair has to take a lot of responsibility for that. The man isn't Labour. He never was.

At a time of crisis like this - and it is - they should have put all their idiot plots schemes and plans on hold and be looking out for the country. I'm sorry, but it's crocodile tears.

The Referendum was last week. What's done is done. Now lets try and make the best of it that we can.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

Q: You talk about the prospect of an early election. But Labour MPs would have to vote for that.

[Angela] Eagle says the government could repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act. And Labour supporters
would not understand Labour MPs voting against a motion of no confidence.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... 24d34f652d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't entirely understand what Eagle meant when she said, "Labour supporters would not understand Labour MPs voting against a
motion of no confidence". Ed Miliband said on Saturday at the Glastonbury festival Labour weren't ready to lead at this time. The
Fixed-Term Act can be repealed with a simple majority vote in the House. "But Labour MPs would have to vote for that." If
Labour aren't ready to lead, they'd vote against a motion of no confidence.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:01 pm

I understand voting to be rid of the Fixed-Term Act is a different vote from the vote of no confidence following it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:06 pm

Oborne on The Week in Westminster on Saturday said Labour would split, I didn't hear it all, might have a listen later on.

Re PR, which even the tories might come to love, if they split as well. It seems to me it would be against the SNP's interests in Westminster?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:06 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
Angela Eagle, who resigned earlier as shadow business secretary, is on the World at One now explaining her decision. She sounds close to tears.

She tried to make it work, she says. During the deputy leadership contest she said she would serve the new leader. But Jeremy Corbyn is not suited to the job, she says. During the EU referendum he could not communicate Labour’s message properly.
Raises eyebrow. I and anyone who was paying attention to it understood Labour's message perfectly well.

Or does she mean that there was a different Labour message? The one that was identical to the Tory's that no one was listening to because it was so shrill?

I think Eagle won't say we're not going to do anything that takes the UK out of the EU instead she said what she did.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:10 pm

You thought you'd seen it all? You haven't.

https://www.change.org/p/welsh-governme ... m=copylink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, the petition starter is THAT ONE.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:10 pm

HindleA wrote:Tory leader by 2nd September.

I didn't realise you had ambitions in that direction.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:13 pm

NonOxCol wrote:You thought you'd seen it all? You haven't.

https://www.change.org/p/welsh-governme ... m=copylink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, the petition starter is THAT ONE.

By the way, the supporters' comments suggest we're absolutely fucked, to be honest.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:17 pm

Where's Charles Clarke when he's needed?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:20 pm

ephemerid wrote:One week ago today, our Parliamentarians sat in the House of Commons and eulogised a murdered democrat, Jo Cox.

Tributes paid; anecdotes related; shock, horror, anger, and deep sadness expressed by all on both sides of the chamber.

Today, all those Parliamentarians, after all the talk about supporting democracy, in Jo's memory, are subverting it one way or another.

A prime Minister who has simply walked away from the chaos he has created; a cabinet with half its' senior ministers at daggers drawn; an opposition unworthy of the name because all it can do, seemingly, is attempt to oust its' democratically elected leader rather than do its's job.

The markets are in turmoil, there is no plan for anything, the far right are feeling sufficiently empowered to commit hate crime, and all we get is this pathetic jostling and positioning from these elected representatives who just seven days ago were droning on about integrity in politics.

I am disgusted with the lot of them.

They say a week is a long time in politics. It feels like five minutes since we were a country united in the loss of a promising young woman, who could have made a real difference, to a nation split, divided, angry with itself but blaming anyone else who fits an agenda.

Disgraceful.

Their antics demonstrates why we have so many disaffected voters, and after the LibDems, I counted myself among them.
With Ed, I thought there just might be a glimmer of light and joined. He's such a clever young man, I knew he wouldn't do anything stupid and leaned towards the left so we had half a chance of being heard. He was certainly right about the Referendum. Sadly, the right made sure he didn't succeed.

Might I suggest the right go to an entertainment agency for their next leader, and they can pull his/her strings from the wings. They seem to be keen on theatrics. Win win.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:24 pm

I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:24 pm

Anyone hear anything from Ed Miliband recently?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:26 pm

citizenJA wrote:Anyone hear anything from Ed Miliband recently?

I've been wondering that, too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:29 pm

Who switched the edit klaxon on? Time to confess that I've been editing loads of typos without owning up. I added a "(to me)" to that last one.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:30 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
Angela Eagle, who resigned earlier as shadow business secretary, is on the World at One now explaining her decision. She sounds close to tears.

She tried to make it work, she says. During the deputy leadership contest she said she would serve the new leader. But Jeremy Corbyn is not suited to the job, she says. During the EU referendum he could not communicate Labour’s message properly.
Raises eyebrow. I and anyone who was paying attention to it understood Labour's message perfectly well.

Or does she mean that there was a different Labour message? The one that was identical to the Tory's that no one was listening to because it was so shrill?
You know how we keep hearing that politicians should say what they really think instead of spinning the party line, and treat the electorate like grownups? Well it turns out Corbyn should have lied about his enthusiasm for the EU and parroted the simple message that thickos could understand.

It's such a lame excuse, because some of the rebels did a p**s poor job getting their consitituents to vote Remain.

In Bracknell we have a safe Tory seat. Lee was for remain [not that he did any door knocking] We aren't 'overrun' by immigrants, employment is one of the highest in the UK. No slums. decent housing, and yet we voted Leave with a decent majority.

There's no rhyme or reason to much of it, and I suspect they'll still be trying to find the answer long after I'm gone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:Who switched the edit klaxon on? Time to confess that I've been editing loads of typos without owning up. I added a "(to me)" to that last one.

If he's the skillful politician I think he is, he'll be keeping well out of it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:31 pm

I know Ed Miliband's been around - but haven't heard him speak, specifically, about the current upheaval.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapens her....

Brown got the same as well remember

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:32 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.
My initial thought was not to feel an awful lot of sympathy for the leader not being at her beck and call, but it was a pretty sobering interview, and she was clearly in bits over it. I felt very bad for her. And yet Andy Burnham and others feel they can manage. Eagle made her position sound very principled, and she probably thinks it's the right thing to do, but would she be leaving over 24 hours to respond to a text if a bunch of other people weren't resigning at the same time?

Like I said crocodile tears. She'll really be crying into her soup when it dawns what she's done to her political career.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:33 pm

Sad day

The death of the Labour our movement.

I don't feel sorry for any of agonised but for the good of the party/ country people. I've spent decades accepting arguments that tinkering with the edges of rampant capitalism was the way to go. Didn't agree but lived with what we could get post Thatcher, only to see all those sneeked in, minimalist protections upended by the coalition and now the Tories. Not one of these fuckers has a mandate from me. I actually stuck with the party even after Iraq which I marched against but I'm done now.

So this extremely used and bedraggled activist seeks a new home.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:33 pm

Let me make my position clear from the outset.

I am one of Corbyns £3ers and I like the cut of his jib.Unless I am informed differently I believe he is honest,principled and answers questions in a direct manner without prevarication.Yes,I agree he is not someone who you could say radiates charism (whatever that is) and he talks without using faux emotion as a presentation tool.

Although I voted for him and detest the way some of the PLP have manufactured this idiotic coup at a time when the party, let alone the nation, least needs it in some ways I am glad we will now have an election for party leader.

Before I commit myself to continuing to vote for Jeremy I want to see who comes out of the woodwork as opposition. I actually like that some of the temporary (for I think that is what it will be) are anything other than career politicians and have some experience of the day to day workplace. (Can anybody point me the direction of a days work out of the rarefied atmosphere of NGOs or European quangos the devious, who I would not trust as far as I could throw him, Stephen Kinnock done?) I actually believe that the average voter (whatever that is) would also like to see someone with a modicum of a similar life experience having a chance rather than the current privileged and entitled populous of both main parties (Stephen Kinnock again anyone)

I do have a problem however. I don't think I am anywhere need your average voter (living in rural Oxfordshire its pretty easy to define that particular specimen here) and I think I have a responsibility to vote for someone who can actually win over that elusive average voter across the country. The question is Jeremy the person to do it.I really would hope so but here we come to the crux of the problem.

The media/press in the country is run (I probably don't need to remind this forum) by people totally divorced from the consequences of their actions and still, despite the advent of social media, have enormous power of the thoughts and minds of (here it comes again) the average voter. Their destruction of a good, well intentioned and honourable man in Ed Miliband was a disgrace and the inherently biased and I am not afraid to say it corrupting nature of their presentation still is persuasive to many who are not political nerds. Do you really think that the Daily Mail will sell its readers the benefits of a shadow cabinet of working people. Even now some grubby little oik (I will not even call him/her the devalued term of journalist) is searching social media digging up photos or comments that they can present in a skewed and vicious perversion of its original intention.

Of course (and its such a same its has been politicised by successive governments) the BBC and other broadcasting organisations, are populated by guests of a right wing nature tempered by the odd leftie they can have a bit of fun with. Tim Montgomerie has been a permanent feature over the past few days (the BBC even asked his opinion of the Labour situation. What the f..k does he know and what reaction did they expect except for him to use as a diversion from his own parties issues) and don't get me on Eton boy Tom Newton Dunn or just down to Westminster from her Cotswold idyll Isobel Oakeshott both real working class advocates of unbiased reporting!

So, sorry for the ramble. Its been a long couple of days but I do believe our media have at least to be called out in the part they have played in getting us to the mess we are in overall and will want to have their two pennyworth in who they want as leader of the Labour party.

Personally I really hope we continue with Corbyn but can see that Joe/Jill Bloggs will still be massively influenced by someone who is a smoothy snake oil salesman who is acceptable to the machinations of our establishment media (like an S.Kinnock) and that will be the final act of what the establishment have wanted for some time, the destruction of the Labour party as a strong political force.

Unless and until we can address that issue I am pessimistic enough to say that along with the crassness of the actions of the PLP , I do not believe we will have anything like a true left leaning/Centre left government in my lifetime.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapest her....

Brown got the same as well remember

I would imagine, if they come the old acid, [another of mother's sayings] that the look he gives over the top of his glasses is rather like being back at school.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:35 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapens her....

Brown got the same as well remember

She was explaining her actions. What else could she do?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:36 pm

Hi mods,I've a question for you,or maybe a warning of future possible bad language.
I just checked to blurb at the top which asks us to remember to comment as though we are speaking in a crowded room.
So,if/when the most honest politician in this country,aka Jeremy Corbyn,is forced to resign,if spinning hugo or te turn up here golating about it..
well,am afraid I will tell them to fuck off.
Which I would do in a crowded room.
So,is this against ftn rules?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:37 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapest her....

Brown got the same as well remember
I would imagine, if they come the old acid, [another of mother's sayings] that the look he gives over the top of his glasses is rather like being back at school.

That behaviour should be reserved for the opposition. Not your own side.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

Rebecca wrote:Hi mods,I've a question for you,or maybe a warning of future possible bad language.
I just checked to blurb at the top which asks us to remember to comment as though we are speaking in a crowded room.
So,if/when the most honest politician in this country,aka Jeremy Corbyn,is forced to resign,if spinning hugo or te turn up here golating about it..
well,am afraid I will tell them to fuck off.
Which I would do in a crowded room.
So,is this against ftn rules?

Others have done that before now - so no.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

Rebecca wrote:Hi mods,I've a question for you,or maybe a warning of future possible bad language.
I just checked to blurb at the top which asks us to remember to comment as though we are speaking in a crowded room.
So,if/when the most honest politician in this country,aka Jeremy Corbyn,is forced to resign,if spinning hugo or te turn up here golating about it..
well,am afraid I will tell them to fuck off.
Which I would do in a crowded room.
So,is this against ftn rules?

I'd prefer it to be in the rules.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:Tory leader by 2nd September.
I didn't realise you had ambitions in that direction.

To set in my ways,I am afraid,too busy fullfilling my traitorous scumbag disloyality by not pissing off and will remain in another Party.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:40 pm

ScarletGas wrote:Let me make my position clear from the outset.

I am one of Corbyns £3ers and I like the cut of his jib.Unless I am informed differently I believe he is honest,principled and answers questions in a direct manner without prevarication.Yes,I agree he is not someone who you could say radiates charism (whatever that is) and he talks without using faux emotion as a presentation tool.

Although I voted for him and detest the way some of the PLP have manufactured this idiotic coup at a time when the party, let alone the nation, least needs it in some ways I am glad we will now have an election for party leader.

Before I commit myself to continuing to vote for Jeremy I want to see who comes out of the woodwork as opposition. I actually like that some of the temporary (for I think that is what it will be) are anything other than career politicians and have some experience of the day to day workplace. (Can anybody point me the direction of a days work out of the rarefied atmosphere of NGOs or European quangos the devious, who I would not trust as far as I could throw him, Stephen Kinnock done?) I actually believe that the average voter (whatever that is) would also like to see someone with a modicum of a similar life experience having a chance rather than the current privileged and entitled populous of both main parties (Stephen Kinnock again anyone)

I do have a problem however. I don't think I am anywhere need your average voter (living in rural Oxfordshire its pretty easy to define that particular specimen here) and I think I have a responsibility to vote for someone who can actually win over that elusive average voter across the country. The question is Jeremy the person to do it.I really would hope so but here we come to the crux of the problem.

The media/press in the country is run (I probably don't need to remind this forum) by people totally divorced from the consequences of their actions and still, despite the advent of social media, have enormous power of the thoughts and minds of (here it comes again) the average voter. Their destruction of a good, well intentioned and honourable man in Ed Miliband was a disgrace and the inherently biased and I am not afraid to say it corrupting nature of their presentation still is persuasive to many who are not political nerds. Do you really think that the Daily Mail will sell its readers the benefits of a shadow cabinet of working people. Even now some grubby little oik (I will not even call him/her the devalued term of journalist) is searching social media digging up photos or comments that they can present in a skewed and vicious perversion of its original intention.

Of course (and its such a same its has been politicised by successive governments) the BBC and other broadcasting organisations, are populated by guests of a right wing nature tempered by the odd leftie they can have a bit of fun with. Tim Montgomerie has been a permanent feature over the past few days (the BBC even asked his opinion of the Labour situation. What the f..k does he know and what reaction did they expect except for him to use as a diversion from his own parties issues) and don't get me on Eton boy Tom Newton Dunn or just down to Westminster from her Cotswold idyll Isobel Oakeshott both real working class advocates of unbiased reporting!

So, sorry for the ramble. Its been a long couple of days but I do believe our media have at least to be called out in the part they have played in getting us to the mess we are in overall and will want to have their two pennyworth in who they want as leader of the Labour party.

Personally I really hope we continue with Corbyn but can see that Joe/Jill Bloggs will still be massively influenced by someone who is a smoothy snake oil salesman who is acceptable to the machinations of our establishment media (like an S.Kinnock) and that will be the final act of what the establishment have wanted for some time, the destruction of the Labour party as a strong political force.

Unless and until we can address that issue I am pessimistic enough to say that along with the crassness of the actions of the PLP , I do not believe we will have anything like a true left leaning/Centre left government in my lifetime.

Good post.
The right wing, aided by the media ruined Ed's chances. And I'll argue with anyone who tries to say different.

Now they've done it to Corbyn, and unless its a Tony Blair clone who'll make sure the status quo is exactly the same as under the Tories, they'll do it to the next leader, and the next and the next...........

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:40 pm

If I said that Diane Abbott had launched a petition "against Labour MPs who are putting their careers before the Party and the country", would you think I was making it up?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapest her....

Brown got the same as well remember
I would imagine, if they come the old acid, [another of mother's sayings] that the look he gives over the top of his glasses is rather like being back at school.
That behaviour should be reserved for the opposition. Not your own side.

Is this another joke?

This is about a SC that has been leaking bile to the Murdoch press since 2010 about the leader.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm listening to Angela Eagle's BBC TV interview. She makes working with Jeremy Corbyn sound like an absolute nightmare. And confirms (to me) my own characterisation of him.

Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapens her....

Brown got the same as well remember

She was explaining her actions. What else could she do?

I dunno.
Lord help us,are any of them going to take responsibility for their actions?
Sure,get on the media and diss Corbyn some more.
I didn't listen to it,but did she,or any of them really,voice that maybe the dreadful behaviour of some of them over the last few months made Corbyn difficult to work with?
I don't know how he put up with some of them.
Treachery and tears is it?

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:42 pm

On a cheerier note Mr fedup (who left the party after Iraq and is well over any trauma) has just come back from the shops with strawberry chocolate muffins, chocolate mini rolls and triple chocolate cookies. All welcome to share (muffins two down already so hurry if you want one).

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:42 pm

@ScarletGas

A good post. It permits me to hark back to what I was saying at the time of the leadership election. I voted (also £3er) for Corbyn not because I thought he was great but because he was significantly less awful than everyone else.

The more I have thought about it, the more I am cursing that Burnham was put forward as the 'left' wing candidate compared to Kendall and Cooper. If it had been someone better* in that position, Corbyn would not be leader now.

* and I'm back where I always get to in these discussions, who is that person? I'm afraid they just don't appear to exist.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Do you think character assassination is going to help.

Bryant already tried that

Cheapest her....

Brown got the same as well remember
I would imagine, if they come the old acid, [another of mother's sayings] that the look he gives over the top of his glasses is rather like being back at school.
That behaviour should be reserved for the opposition. Not your own side.

Sorry, but an idiot, is an idiot is an idiot.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

HindleA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:Tory leader by 2nd September.
I didn't realise you had ambitions in that direction.
To set in my ways,I am afraid,too busy fullfilling my traitorous scumbag disloyality by not pissing off and will remain in another Party.

Hear Hear

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:45 pm

fedup59 wrote:On a cheerier note Mr fedup (who left the party after Iraq and is well over any trauma) has just come back from the shops with strawberry chocolate muffins, chocolate mini rolls and triple chocolate cookies. All welcome to share (muffins two down already so hurry if you want one).

Many thanks!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:@ScarletGas

A good post. It permits me to hark back to what I was saying at the time of the leadership election. I voted (also £3er) for Corbyn not because I thought he was great but because he was significantly less awful than everyone else.

The more I have thought about it, the more I am cursing that Burnham was put forward as the 'left' wing candidate compared to Kendall and Cooper. If it had been someone better* in that position, Corbyn would not be leader now.

* and I'm back where I always get to in these discussions, who is that person? I'm afraid they just don't appear to exist.

Harman miscalculation through and through did for Burnham.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:48 pm

Looks like October 12th for GE.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:51 pm

I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:51 pm

fedup59 wrote:Sad day

The death of the Labour our movement.

I don't feel sorry for any of agonised but for the good of the party/ country people. I've spent decades accepting arguments that tinkering with the edges of rampant capitalism was the way to go. Didn't agree but lived with what we could get post Thatcher, only to see all those sneeked in, minimalist protections upended by the coalition and now the Tories. Not one of these fuckers has a mandate from me. I actually stuck with the party even after Iraq which I marched against but I'm done now.

So this extremely used and bedraggled activist seeks a new home.

I'm saddened today.I will support labour until Corbyn is gone,but not a minute longer.
Not one party to vote for.
I'm wondering if Momentum might start something up,and indeed attract some of the disenfranchised who were attracted to Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn.
Split the left.But there isn't much of the left left is there really?
How Labour have let the country down.Just to rid themselves of a democratically elected leader.
And how the mps doing so are so delighted to be sharing their angst to the media.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:53 pm

While I think their behaviour is thoroughly appalling, and if this wasn't a planned coup my name is Nigel Farage, someone has kindly summed up my exact position in three tweets:

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ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:53 pm

Any one know how many of the rebels voted to bomb Syria? I know Angela Eagle did along with Benn.

Encouraging a leadership contest is opening the door to them.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:54 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Harman miscalculation through and through did for Burnham.

Burnham not going against it did for Burnham. And his flip-flopping on just about everything going trying to appease both sides of the party at once. Plus his being a teensy bit shit. Otherwise, it was his for the taking.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:55 pm

fedup59 wrote:Sad day

The death of the Labour our movement.

I don't feel sorry for any of agonised but for the good of the party/ country people. I've spent decades accepting arguments that tinkering with the edges of rampant capitalism was the way to go. Didn't agree but lived with what we could get post Thatcher, only to see all those sneeked in, minimalist protections upended by the coalition and now the Tories. Not one of these fuckers has a mandate from me. I actually stuck with the party even after Iraq which I marched against but I'm done now.

So this extremely used and bedraggled activist seeks a new home.

As a green (but former labour bod) I woudl say wait till the leadership contest if one comes, if it doesnt then.... Otherwise you will be welcomed in the Green party.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:57 pm

NonOxCol wrote:While I think their behaviour is thoroughly appalling, and if this wasn't a planned coup my name is Nigel Farage, someone has kindly summed up my exact position in three tweets:

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That's it! That's my point! Thank you.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 2:59 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.

Blimey.
He has been fighting his own bloody party for the last couple of days and trying to forge a new shadow cabinet.
No wonder you don't like him,you want superman.Flying to rescue the country whilst fighting for his life against the people who should be standing with him.
So it's all his fault,and not those poor innocents of the plp who would love to be calling the (lack of)government to account,and working in a team to 'come out with something positive on the EU debacle',but they are just so busy taking turns to be interviewed on how dreadful it is to force themselves to plan a coup against their leader?

I cannot begin to understand your reasoning.Unless you really do expect a superman.