Forum rules Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
Blimey.
He has been fighting his own bloody party for the last couple of days and trying to forge a new shadow cabinet.
No wonder you don't like him,you want superman.Flying to rescue the country whilst fighting for his life against the people who should be standing with him.
So it's all his fault,and not those poor innocents of the plp who would love to be calling the (lack of)government to account,and working in a team to 'come out with something positive on the EU debacle',but they are just so busy taking turns to be interviewed on how dreadful it is to force themselves to plan a coup against their leader?
I cannot begin to understand your reasoning.Unless you really do expect a superman.
I haven't noticed him "fighting" anybody or anything.
Edited to put my reply in the right place (it got embedded in your post).
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 27 Jun, 2016 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
They've not given him much time to sort out something about the EU debacle. He's been fighting off the PLP, and is still having to do so, which is what's making me so angry. And all the media will be interviewing snivelling MPs and not tackling what's important.
He wanted to get on with it. Some hopes.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
Blimey.
He has been fighting his own bloody party for the last couple of days and trying to forge a new shadow cabinet.
No wonder you don't like him,you want superman.Flying to rescue the country whilst fighting for his life against the people who should be standing with him.
So it's all his fault,and not those poor innocents of the plp who would love to be calling the (lack of)government to account,and working in a team to 'come out with something positive on the EU debacle',but they are just so busy taking turns to be interviewed on how dreadful it is to force themselves to plan a coup against their leader?
I cannot begin to understand your reasoning.Unless you really do expect a superman.
I haven't noticed him "fighting" anybody or anything.
Edited to put my reply in the right place (it got embedded in your post).
Because he doesn't do everything in front of the media?
Do you really think he's been doing the crossword/?
Oh never mind.I give up.
I don't feel sorry for any of agonised but for the good of the party/ country people. I've spent decades accepting arguments that tinkering with the edges of rampant capitalism was the way to go. Didn't agree but lived with what we could get post Thatcher, only to see all those sneeked in, minimalist protections upended by the coalition and now the Tories. Not one of these fuckers has a mandate from me. I actually stuck with the party even after Iraq which I marched against but I'm done now.
So this extremely used and bedraggled activist seeks a new home.
As a green (but former labour bod) I woudl say wait till the leadership contest if one comes, if it doesnt then.... Otherwise you will be welcomed in the Green party.
You're right Tem, I also like Rebecca's thoughts about momentum. Daughter and son-in-law joined the greens after ed m resigned as Labour leader and while I rate some of the greens here there are some localised issues that I find a bit off putting while I find thoughts of a momentum (with possible green alliance?) Intriguing. As to splitting the left the media seems to think it's its role to stymy any possible alternatives to the status quo.
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
A bit like the PM & Chancellor then? Has anyone heard from Cameron since Friday's sulk
This was a Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Farage disaster. They own it, before, during and after.
Before and during - ok. But I dispute the "after". We should be trying to make the "after" Labour's.
Unfortunately, it's now going to take Labour 2 to 3 months of navel gazing to even start thinking about the 'after'. Well done PLP.
You'd think that after 2010 and 2015 and the vacuum they left in the mediasphere policy- and opposition against the government-wise would have taught them a valuable lesson by now. But... nope, it's let's pick a new leader time again.
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
A bit like the PM & Chancellor then? Has anyone heard from Cameron since Friday's sulk
Yes - very much like the PM and the Chancellor. Not a good look, though.
PorFavor wrote:I'd have more time for Jeremy Corbyn if he ploughed on and came out with something positive on the EU debacle. And put up a fight (on the mess we're in and on the leadership front). Instead we've got what to me seems like a mulish refusal to engage with anything.
A bit like the PM & Chancellor then? Has anyone heard from Cameron since Friday's sulk
Yes - very much like the PM and the Chancellor. Not a good look, though.
Difference is, they are supposed to be running the country
http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2728-th ... party-back This is not the first time that members of the Labour Right have gone out of their way to sabotage their own party. There were those, like John Mann MP, who tried to get the leadership election cancelled when it was clear that Corbyn might win it. There were others, like Blair’s former speechwriter Peter Hyman, who spoke openly of splitting to form a new SDP when he did win. Even talking like this betrayed a certain panic: one doesn’t, in the context of the Labour Party, lightly invoke the failed experiment that according to party folk memory handed the Tories three election victories. Former deputy leader John Prescott laid into these ‘Bitterites,’ as he called them, for refusing to accept the leadership outcome and running a campaign of sabotage intended to wreck Labour’s chances. And sure enough, in the run up to London’s mayoral contest, MPs were privately briefing that they didn’t want Sadiq Khan — someone very much not from the Corbyn wing of the party — to win, lest it bolster Corbyn’s leadership position. Although they have often claimed to be worried about Corbyn's electability, their behaviour demonstrates that their major worry is that Corbyn might win, rather than that he can’t.
Thanks for that Tem. I was struck by this paragraph. It seems to verify what we've been saying. That this coup isn't just a sudden thing. So many things have been happening a lot of their shenanigans get forgotten.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
We live in a broken democracy. Millions of people throughout the country feel they have no voice. They are sick of the Westminster elite and their duck-moats and their second-home-flipping and their same-but-slightly-different representation in the commons: "We're all in it together" means for a large part politicians are in it together with media moguls and big business to make as much money out of the system as they can.
People have had enough. It is no surprise that people came out in their droves who normally don't bother voting to have their say last Thursday. It is no surprise that for many "Leave" was the only option they believed they had to change the system.
It is also no surprise that the day Google went crazy over Jeremy Corbyn was the day the PLP abstained on the Welfare Bill. People have well and truly had it up to their eyes with the same old politics.
The establishment is terrified because austerity works very nicely, thank you very much, for the elite. It keeps interest rates low on their mortgages; it keeps the cost of labour low for their businesses; it keeps their cleaners and gardeners cheap; it means they can buy up public assets at cut-rate prices and make a killing on the stock exchange - all of this with the aid of their friends in Parliament. In return MPs can expect a "nice little earner" the day they step down or lose their seat, and are given seats on various boards to keep them onside in the meantime.
The Old Guard will not relinquish the reins of power without a fight, though. And what we see happening in the Party now is a last-ditch attempt to seize control back from the CLP to keep it the way they want it. Why do they have to do this? Because to them a GE win with Jeremy at the helm is unconscionable.
It is unconscionable because Jeremy can't be bought. It is unconscionable because Jeremy wants serious change. It is unconscionable because Jeremy is anti-austerity, anti-cronyism, anti-inequality, anti-war and anti-exploitation.
With a snap-election on the cards, and Labour now neck-and-neck with the Tories in the polls, this is the last chance they have to get him out, and maintain the status quo.
Woe betide them - and the country - if they succeed. We are in unprecedented political times, and uncharted waters. If they succeed in ousting him, there will be the same no-real-choice between the Right and the Far Right. Worse, if we don't have an anti-austerity voice at the negotiation table when Art. 50 is invoked, the negotiations will be all about what is best for big business and their cronies rather than what is for the best for the people of this country in the long-term.
This was a Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Farage disaster. They own it, before, during and after.
Before and during - ok. But I dispute the "after". We should be trying to make the "after" Labour's.
Unfortunately, it's now going to take Labour 2 to 3 months of navel gazing to even start thinking about the 'after'. Well done PLP.
You'd think that after 2010 and 2015 and the vacuum they left in the mediasphere policy- and opposition against the government-wise would have taught them a valuable lesson by now. But... nope, it's let's pick a new leader time again.
Yesterday I posted that my dad always reckoned Labour had a self destruct button and every so often felt compelled to press it.
I know exactly what he'd be saying now...."Has someone super glued their bloody finger to it?"
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Of course with all of the resignations, Corbyn now has a clear majority in the NEC. That is a very great power indeed in the party, unless things have changed a lot.
Cameron says a new civil service unit has been set up to prepare for the withdrawal negotiations. It will
be staffed by the brightest and best from Westminster. It will prepare options for the new prime minister.
Temulkar wrote:Of course with all of the resignations, Corbyn now has a clear majority in the NEC. That is a very great power indeed in the party, unless things have changed a lot.
Anatoly?
Yes someone on Twitter pointed out he now has a 'left' cabinet.
Makes me wonder what the rebels were using for brains...
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
It was around $2.87 to the pound. 
