Tuesday 28th June 2016

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 8:58 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:The moment pro-EU protest #LondonStays interrupts a live Channel 4 News broadcast at Westminster.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This isn't the official demo by the way - that happens Saturday

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 8:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:The moment pro-EU protest #LondonStays interrupts a live Channel 4 News broadcast at Westminster.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wow it really is the 80s all over again. maybe in the politicization of those there young folks, there might be some good to come out of this after all.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:07 pm

danesclose wrote:The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing.

They've been doing that at the LP since 1996 following the accession of Blair and Brown. They stopped briefly 9 months ago. Now they'll be able to start again.

PS. Rumours of my final comment may have been premature.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:07 pm

http://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/news ... ent-action" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Truly dreadful' poverty rise must prompt Government action

• 3.9m children now living in poverty after housing costs
• 29% of children now living in poverty
• Rise of 200k children living in families below 50% of median income meaning that more children are living in even deeper poverty
• 66% of children in poverty have at least one parent in work, up from 62% last year

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:08 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
danesclose wrote:The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing.
They've been doing that at the LP since 1996 following the accession of Blair and Brown. They stopped briefly 9 months ago. Now they'll be able to start again.

PS. Rumours of my final comment may have been premature.

v good

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:10 pm

could we be moving into a post wildean era where youth is no longer wasted on the young?

or have I just consumed a finger too many of 't oily prat?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:13 pm

Clandestine mastermind of the PLP coup revealed

: e1ecb51d729ea9622423eb888ff781d5.jpg (45.7 KiB) Viewed 7288 times

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:14 pm

London stays demonstation tonight. Sorry about the language but Im feeling rather whimsical now.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:17 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36656039" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
could move HQ from UK - 13,000 employees overall in UK
The telecoms giant said in an emailed statement it was important to retain access to the EU's free "movement of people, capital and goods".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:17 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:The moment pro-EU protest #LondonStays interrupts a live Channel 4 News broadcast at Westminster.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wow it really is the 80s all over again. maybe in the politicization of those there young folks, there might be some good to come out of this after all.

Wrong decade according to one...

Andrew Sentance ‏@asentance 7m7 minutes ago
We seem to have returned to 1970s politics: major parties divided; weak leadership: and political extremism. Let's hope it is a bad dream.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:17 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Clandestine mastermind of the PLP coup revealed
e1ecb51d729ea9622423eb888ff781d5.jpg

So it WAS Tom Watson...

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:18 pm

A couple of comments from under Polly's article at
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-77562419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"gtegte diablo0210 12h ago

Nope. We will pay the EU nothing.

The UK should go down the WTO tariff route.

That way the EU pays the UK.

Not only is that cash to spend in the UK, the look on Junker's face when told in public at a press conference is worth it."

And an excellent response -

"diablo0210 gtegte
12h ago

"Not only is that cash to spend in the UK, the look on Junker's face when told in public at a press conference is worth it"

So the world lost 3+ trillion dollars, the UK lost the equivalent of dozens of years' worth of EU contributions, your country is in turmoil, you're about to lose Scotland and Northern Ireland, nevermind the last few lucrative businesses you still have because you hope BoJo the clown will force the hand of the biggest trading block on Earth, and because of "the look on Junker's face"?
Why didn't you brexiters told us that before? Now it all makes sense. In a few years time, that's all that we'll remember of these days: the look on Junker's face... Oh, how we laughed!"

Meanwhile other Brexiters are explaining that as they have no shares and don't trade in foreign currencies, it doesn't matter to them at all what happens to Sterling, the banks or stock market values. Apparently it's only wealthy champagne socialists like us that are affected by such things.

I think we just might be the first one-time global superpower and (until 5 days ago) one of the richest five countries in the world to stupid ourselves into third world status.

I suspect I'm going to using that smiley a lot in the future.

(edited for formatting errors).

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:21 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:The moment pro-EU protest #LondonStays interrupts a live Channel 4 News broadcast at Westminster.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wow it really is the 80s all over again. maybe in the politicization of those there young folks, there might be some good to come out of this after all.
Wrong decade according to one...

Andrew Sentance ‏@asentance 7m7 minutes ago
We seem to have returned to 1970s politics: major parties divided; weak leadership: and political extremism. Let's hope it is a bad dream.

good point yes - 70s/80s interface (roughly)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:21 pm

I'd be (genuinely) interested to know: how many of Labour's £3 members; new, full members; and assorted supporters actually turn out to vote in elections (not this here referendum thing).

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:21 pm

StephenDolan wrote:He's weak, unelectable. So who should challenge him? Anyone... Anyone? Given the Conservatives timetable for their leadership the PLP need to get their finger out. If I remember correctly Harman decided on the length of the process last time, was that correct?

He is unelectable from the general population. However the hard left brigade might be able to keep him in non power. One assumes when he loses by a landslide this year or in 2020 he still won't resign.

If he doesn't go we are faced with over a decade of hard right Tory government.

He won't get the nominations to stand again, however the legal advice conflicts (precedent says you need the nominations - see Kinnock vs Benn).

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'd be (genuinely) interested to know: how many of Labour's £3 members; new, full members; and assorted supporters actually turn out to vote in elections (not this here referendum thing).

Anecdote not data, but 100% from a sample of one. We were also winning the referendum by a landslide in the only poll I trust until all those other pesky voters went and joined in.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:28 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:He is unelectable from the general population

Yet he never actually lost any elections.

Brought to you by the 'hard' left. I'm just going to quaff some leaf tea mixed with ale from my flat cap while walking my whippet and knocking some coal out of a Tory. Hope you don't mind.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:38 pm

DisappointedIdealist ‏@DisIdealist 3h3 hours ago
For the love of God, can we just locate the UK's Restore Point from a week ago, and then re-install The operating system?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:44 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282
David Cameron promises in/out referendum on EU
23 January 2013
During noisy Prime Minister's Questions exchanges in Parliament, Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Cameron was "running scared" of the UK Independence Party, whose poll ratings have been rising.

Mr Miliband, who said he opposed holding an in/out referendum, said Mr Cameron was "going to put Britain through years of uncertainty, and take a huge gamble with our economy."

edited to make link to url

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282
David Cameron promises in/out referendum on EU
23 January 2013
During noisy Prime Minister's Questions exchanges in Parliament, Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Cameron was "running scared" of the UK Independence Party, whose poll ratings have been rising.

Mr Miliband, who said he opposed holding an in/out referendum, said Mr Cameron was "going to put Britain through years of uncertainty, and take a huge gamble with our economy."

But, instead, the electorate voted for the stability and security of a Tory government and their long term economic plan (of flushing the UK down the Thomas Crapper). Because of a bacon butty.

Edit: you know, I wish I was actually joking there but I wasn't.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282
David Cameron promises in/out referendum on EU
23 January 2013
During noisy Prime Minister's Questions exchanges in Parliament, Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Cameron was "running scared" of the UK Independence Party, whose poll ratings have been rising.

Mr Miliband, who said he opposed holding an in/out referendum, said Mr Cameron was "going to put Britain through years of uncertainty, and take a huge gamble with our economy."

And back in 2008 when the banking crisis the response was not to say "Ooh, I'll have to have an emergency budget!" but then disappear for 3 days after things got rough but to organise the G7 or G8 into stabilizing the financial systems. No Budget until the usual one the following Spring.

What a difference...from grown-up competent politicians to "A plan? Not me guv..."

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:53 pm

Temulkar wrote:London stays demonstation tonight. Sorry about the language but Im feeling rather whimsical now.

Agree entirely with the sentiment, but the poster looks a little odd, too clean, as if photoshopped. Added to the fact that a young boy has his hand on it makes me think serious possibility of manipulation.

If it isn't than a) what were his parents thinking of, and b) I'm the Queen of Sheba.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:53 pm

danesclose wrote: The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing.

I strongly suspect they're pissing themselves but I rather doubt they're laughing.

Neither of which has anything at all to do with the Labour party.

Boris and his cartoon duck sidekick's victory speech with the sound turned off looked like a couple of prisoners on the scaffold, ropes already around their necks' asked if they've any final words before the executioner puts their hoods on and pulls the lever.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:55 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Rebecca wrote:If there is a general election soon I daresay the plp will be asking for donations.
Depends on the Brexit position they take. If they adopt the Tim Farron option they may be buried under an avalanche of cash.

The madness has to be stopped by somebody as no government (not even Farage) could leave the single market.
I think he could and would. Running a banana republic on behalf of themselves and their mates is the sort of thing ambitious demagogues of his kind all too often end up doing.

I genuinely think his ambition is now boundless. His current games in the European Parliament are all part of pushing him into the limelight and keeping him there as part of a strategy to increase his support amongst the population and make the People's Army's "revolution" permanent by propelling him into a position of power in the UK. And he knows racism and hate is a very useful tool for that.

His underling Nutall said something, on Friday I think, about how useful the people's anger could be.

That maybe, but I doubt even Nigel would deliberately shut down the city and the revenue it generates. The peoples anger is indeed a useful tool - until it is directed at them.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 9:56 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282
David Cameron promises in/out referendum on EU
23 January 2013
During noisy Prime Minister's Questions exchanges in Parliament, Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Cameron was "running scared" of the UK Independence Party, whose poll ratings have been rising.

Mr Miliband, who said he opposed holding an in/out referendum, said Mr Cameron was "going to put Britain through years of uncertainty, and take a huge gamble with our economy."
edited to make link to url

tiny - if you're putting a link inside quotes, at the start, add a space between the square bracket and the URL. It will then auto link:

Code: Select all

[quote] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282[/quote]

becomes

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:DisappointedIdealist ‏@DisIdealist 3h3 hours ago
For the love of God, can we just locate the UK's Restore Point from a week ago, and then re-install The operating system?

Genius comment. We have descended into chaos. We have no PM, no Opposition, no football team manager. It resembles a Star Trek story when the entire command crew beam down to the nearest planet leaving nobody at the helm. This is also known as The Exxon Valdez Gambit.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36656039
could move HQ from UK - 13,000 employees overall in UK
The telecoms giant said in an emailed statement it was important to retain access to the EU's free "movement of people, capital and goods".

Vodafone have been very actively expanding in recent years. There have been industry rumours for a while that they will buy Virgin Media mainly for their fibre asset. If they move that will destroy Newbury.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:05 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:The moment pro-EU protest #LondonStays interrupts a live Channel 4 News broadcast at Westminster.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wow it really is the 80s all over again. maybe in the politicization of those there young folks, there might be some good to come out of this after all.

Sorry, I find the 'wow' factor sadly lacking in the 1980s.

We were talking about it at home last night. I graduated 1983, MrsTRG in 1984. Straight into a deep recession, stagnant wages, the almost overnight shutdown of industry (including workers turning up for work on a Monday morning and finding themselves locked out of a now closed factory), millions and millions unemployed, the neutering of trades unionism, 25-40% youth unemployment depending on where you lived with the highlights of the end of the UK's coal industry and shipbuilding, Orgreave and the Battle of the Beanfield yet to come. A decade topped off by a huge increase in begging and homelessness, the poll tax and then Black Wednesday 1992.

MrsTRG said we've basically taken a 33 year long round trip to end up where we started.

Increased politicisation is good, so long as it's our politics not the far right, but the cost will be high. And now we have the absence of an organised mass working class movement that young people will come into as part of their daily lives. Instead, they daily come across half-baked neoconservative propaganda and conspiracy theories. The PLP distancing itself within it's Westminster bubble won't help either.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:09 pm

Neutral statement or more correctly the view from the vagueish soft/hard left with emphasise on the vague "Genuinely gave Corbyn a chance" wing

I have some contact with MP's I trust to give an honest view.It is clear in this area that Corbyn is seen as a hindrance as far as voters go.This constituency,of late is a marginal -with the Tories closely behind,it will,unless people are lying as to intentions most likely "fall" at the next-for the first time ever.Now you can argue the toss about the fairness or not of that view/perception but that is the "story" I hear,and far more involved activists than me hear.Of note,people that voted for Corbyn are writing/contacting MP's with exactly the same view.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:10 pm

danesclose wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36656039
could move HQ from UK - 13,000 employees overall in UK
The telecoms giant said in an emailed statement it was important to retain access to the EU's free "movement of people, capital and goods".
Vodafone have been very actively expanding in recent years. There have been industry rumours for a while that they will buy Virgin Media mainly for their fibre asset. If they move that will destroy Newbury.

Vodafone HQ is a tower block in Paddington, I am not sure what is in Newbury these days (loads of stuff, I just don't know what it does).

The VM purchase is an ongoing debate, there are suspicions Vodafone went soft on the Openreach split to ensure they could still buy it. That Verizon cash is still available. Vodafone also had a lucky escape when the O2/H3G buyout was blocked.

It is true that for some time the UK network has performed poorly compared to say Germany. I would expect them to relocate there, if they go. In fact over time I expect my job will now relocate to Germany.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:13 pm

Can I add my voice to the above sentiment that the 1980s were truly and deeply shit.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:14 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:DisappointedIdealist ‏@DisIdealist 3h3 hours ago
For the love of God, can we just locate the UK's Restore Point from a week ago, and then re-install The operating system?

Genius comment. We have descended into chaos. We have no PM, no Opposition, no football team manager. It resembles a Star Trek story when the entire command crew beam down to the nearest planet leaving nobody at the helm. This is also known as The Exxon Valdez Gambit.

But we do have our freeeeeedooooom!

Tiz · Post by **Tiz** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:14 pm

Greetings all - long time no speak,

I've been reading over the weekend and tried to log in but my password wasn't accepted. The new one I requested didn't arrive and the email I sent to 'admin' wasn't answered. I don't raise this to have a moan - simply to flag up that there may be a problem.

Anyway, as I say, I've been reading over the weekend. I haven't caught up on today's thread though. I got as far as Hugo's comment which I found somewhat condescending. I wasn't going to comment on the whole Corbyn business. In fact I decided to re register because I had an idea of how we could possibly get out of the referendum mess and wanted to see what people thought. Maybe I'll come back to that.

Hugo's comment got me to wondering. I can understand all the different arguments from TE through to Ohso and round the houses and back again. I'm not a Labour party member or voter so as I said, I hadn't intended to put my two'penneth in. But, considering what was done to various Labour party leaders over the years [other than Blair], I can't help but just wonder if it's worth a 'last throw of the dice' to support Corbyn? I dunno - just a thought.

Anyway, I'll read the thread now.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:15 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'd be (genuinely) interested to know: how many of Labour's £3 members; new, full members; and assorted supporters actually turn out to vote in elections (not this here referendum thing).

I'm an affiliated member. Have been (via the MU) since 1983, and also via Nalgo/Unison in the 90s.I forget what I'm called under the system the Blairites cooked up to try and reduce TU influence for the benefit of Blairites (another grand cunning plan that didn't go quite as intended).

I first voted in 1979. Labour.
I have voted in every general, local, European and even PCC election since. Labour.

I've canvassed for Labour in the past, though not more recently for health and personal reasons that are nothing to do with my attitude to the Labour Party. Let's just say MrsTRG has to be careful about being publicly associated with political views and the effects of that ripple outwards a bit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:16 pm

Cameron tells EU leaders they must offer UK more control over immigration

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... mmigration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Cameron warned Europe’s leaders that they will have to offer the UK more control over immigration at the end of
a fractious day where politicians across Europe clashed over the meaning and consequences of last week’s Brexit vote.

The British prime minster used his last Brussels summit to tell Angela Merkel, François Hollande and other European heads
of government that anxieties about unrestricted freedom of movement were at the heart of the decision by Britons to reject
the EU.

At the end of the day he said this to Europe's leaders? Then he ran for it. Hasn't been seen since.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:18 pm

Oh good grief...

So...
1. Calling a referendum which you then go and lose and
2. Holding to an insane net migration target when everyone knew that it couldn't be met, not to mention not doing anything to cut non-EU immigration which is entirely in the UK's powers.

...is down to the EU!

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:20 pm

Angela Eagle's party voted 40 - 4 for her to support corbyn.

Beyond farcial now.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:20 pm

Politics does Robert. Just not in this country. FPTP poisons everything.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:20 pm

Tiz wrote:Greetings all - long time no speak,

I've been reading over the weekend and tried to log in but my password wasn't accepted. The new one I requested didn't arrive and the email I sent to 'admin' wasn't answered. I don't raise this to have a moan - simply to flag up that there may be a problem.

Hi Tiz. Apologies. I've just gotten a new phone and I forgot to set up the site email on it.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:22 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh good grief...

So...
1. Calling a referendum which you then go and lose and
2. Holding to an insane net migration target when everyone knew that it couldn't be met, not to mention not doing anything to cut non-EU immigration which is entirely in the UK's powers.

...is down to the EU!

He's just trying, vainly, to spin the place in history that has finally caught up with him.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:22 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh good grief...

So...
1. Calling a referendum which you then go and lose and
2. Holding to an insane net migration target when everyone knew that it couldn't be met, not to mention not doing anything to cut non-EU immigration which is entirely in the UK's powers.

...is down to the EU!

To paraphrase the image in a post earlier, David Cameron is a rancid, festering Tory.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:23 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh good grief...

So...
1. Calling a referendum which you then go and lose and
2. Holding to an insane net migration target when everyone knew that it couldn't be met, not to mention not doing anything to cut non-EU immigration which is entirely in the UK's powers.

...is down to the EU!

Words fail me. He really does have no shame.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:25 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
danesclose wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36656039
could move HQ from UK - 13,000 employees overall in UK
The telecoms giant said in an emailed statement it was important to retain access to the EU's free "movement of people, capital and goods".
Vodafone have been very actively expanding in recent years. There have been industry rumours for a while that they will buy Virgin Media mainly for their fibre asset. If they move that will destroy Newbury.
Vodafone HQ is a tower block in Paddington, I am not sure what is in Newbury these days (loads of stuff, I just don't know what it does).

The VM purchase is an ongoing debate, there are suspicions Vodafone went soft on the Openreach split to ensure they could still buy it. That Verizon cash is still available. Vodafone also had a lucky escape when the O2/H3G buyout was blocked.

It is true that for some time the UK network has performed poorly compared to say Germany. I would expect them to relocate there, if they go. In fact over time I expect my job will now relocate to Germany.

City HQ may be in Paddington, but every time I need to speak to an engineer or designer I have to contact Newbury. Perhaps that's why they located in Paddington - its easy enough to get a train to Reading or Newbury
True enough about the German network, but IIRC Vodafone have split Europe into a number of zones. One zone was UK, Ireland & Greece for some reason.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:25 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:Sadly Corbyn probably is unelectable now, but the lion's share of the reason for that is the way the PLP has acted. I can only conclude that they didn't want to give the party a chance to recover if it strengthened Corbyn's position. Not to mention the Chilcott stuff.

It seems that most MPs, who were never that sold on Corbyn, have simply taken the opportunity presented to them by the awkward squad. But the problem is, it's one wing of the party's fight and the others have been forced to pick a side. A leadership challenge could have been made without the hugely damaging mass resignations and no-confidence vote. All that was done to try to force Corbyn to step down so the ballot could be cleared of troublesome leftwingers. They're basically prepared to burn the house down and only put the fire out if Corbyn jumps out the window.

As I said above, I think Corbyn probably is unelectable now for a host of reasons. I'm still struggling to decide whether the way he has been treated from the beginning by his supposed colleagues is behaviour I can accept in a party that has my support. I've never seen anything like it. I don't think even the unseating of Thatcher was as brutal.

What it's saying to me is what I've feared for some time - that politics doesn't have a place for the likes of me and my views. I thought for a while that it did, but apparently not.

Im rejoining labour Robert, this is a battle for the soul of the movement now. If we lose I will leave but the way the PLP has behaved is so wrong, so awful with the state of the nation that it has to be challenged. If they had just challenged for the leadership I would have shrugged and though fools, but the behaviour of people like jess phillips last night and the barefaced lies treating the public like idiots made my mind up.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:27 pm

Polling shows corbyn more popular than ever amongst membership.

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&ver ... p&src=tyah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:35 pm

Headline from Prospect Magazine:

This the end - if not for Corbyn, the Labour Party.

I'm afraid that happened in 1996. This was a brief revival under - alas - ultimately the wrong man for the job.

The death of the Labour Party has been a bit like climate change. Despite all the warnings that the direction of travel will end in catastrophic circumstances, just because the build up couldn't be easily observed or comprehended, everything felt like it was going fine. Then, boom.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:37 pm

The problem was that Cameron post-2010 was still in "blame Labour for everything including immigration" and the longer it went on the harder it was to backtrack on that net migration target.

The worst of it was him insisting even in 2015 that it could still be met!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:44 pm

"
Robert.

"What it's saying to me is what I've feared for some time - that politics doesn't have a place for the likes of me and my views. I thought for a while that it did, but apparently not."

FWIW I have felt like that most of my life,at a semi-permanent tangency.I came to the conclusion the best I could hope for was some shared opinion on some matters and probably why I concentrate on those that in my naive way may matter as much to enough people as me and possible movement at least in an incremental way towards the direction I would like,ever aware it will never reach anywhere near what I would like.That it is going backwards in the areas of my concern is buffetted by at least some are equally concerned/working against that retraction.

Excuse waffle.All I am saying is I value your contributions and suggest you do have a place,maybe not in a party but shared endeavour in other ways.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:44 pm

Interesting piece from Steve Topple, with some frightening statistics about Middlesbrough, my home town:

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/26/corb ... -think-us/

The child poverty rate is 37% in the town, with the ward of Thorntree having the highest level, at a shocking 61% – which means 1,288 children are affected. Overall, these figures mean that more than 9,000 children live in poverty in Middlesbrough. Other key statistics are:
One in five children die as infants in Middlesbrough who would not have died elsewhere;
The average lifespan for a boy is two-and-a-half years less than the national average;
More than 10% of babies have a low birth weight compared with just over 7% nationally, which has been linked to the rising incidence of children with complex needs;
The number of Child Protection Plans in place in Middlesbrough is double the national average with the number of looked-after children 88% higher than the national average.

He sums up the local "democratic defecit" (Labour MP elected by 30% of electorate on 52% turn out) and that EU immigration isn't an issue. As I recall 'Boro growing up there, the fact that it was a port meant that there were a lot of different ethnic groups around, and you quickly learnt where not to drink!
The article goes on to quote a local NHS worker speaking about the referendum:

it’s really hard for locals to see that as “not representative” [the levels of refugees] given the fact that we have a media hell bent on reinforcing those fears […] but at the same time, we’re a shipping community, a town built around a port, there’ve been European and other communities in thriving Middlesbrough since its birth in the 19th Century […] it would be really quite disingenuous, I think, to brand the place a nest of deep-running racism.

He goes on to say that people’s attitude is:

we have nothing already, why send more people here? “We can’t get our own kids in to see a doctor” “I worked a zero hours contract in a sandwich factory and most of them there was Czech!” […] and these same people have voted Labour for a century and STILL got nothing. The EU referendum was their chance to actually change the status quo, for better or worse, and for the first time in a long while actually have their votes count for something.

In summing up, Peter said:

Racism? Nah – if governments actually give them a f*cking chance at life – then we’ll see who’s racist.

Channel 4 did a series of "Benefit Street" last year based in Stockton-on-Tees. At the next Boro home match, a group of supporters, had a banner stating "Poverty Is Not Entertainment"

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Jun, 2016 10:45 pm