Wednesday 29th June 2016

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:29 pm

He called on the crowd to mobilise and said supports should “not be afraid of press barons who attack us”.

From Corbyn on Graun Live. I may have to recruit him to me foul seething initiatives.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:30 pm

Is Michael Gove an idiot? His wife seems to think so

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aked-email

Far more intoxicating is the insight it gives into Gove and Vine’s relationship, a sort of careless babying, her mind only half on him, but cooing with maternal sweetness when it is. It starts with the statement of such blinding obviousness it would only really make sense in her column, where she is paid by the word.

It is a completely baffling thing to say to one’s actual spouse. Darling. We need to IDENTIFY problems and then SOLVE them. It slips between addressing Michael Gove in the third person, as if she were instructing a nanny (I really think Michael should take a packed lunch into these crucial meetings, and not just rusks), and addressing him directly. The kindest possible reading is that she is writing the email on one screen and has Net-a-Porter open on another.

It is packed with flattery – he is vital and courageous and stubborn – but the very idea that he would need to be told such rudimentary things is profoundly insulting. The capital letters are an interesting touch, as if she is yelling to make herself heard through a veil of senility.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:31 pm

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess ... l-11543097" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
War veteran went viral with call to remain in EU - now here's his post-Brexit view

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:33 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/business/b ... 40-8313057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Banking giant Lloyds cutting 640 jobs following Brexit vote
The vote to quit the EU has led to other rivals such as HSBC warning that jobs may go to other EU finance hubs such as Paris

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:35 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:One thing that really, really needs to happen is that these politicians of all varieties get out of Westminster for a while and spend some time with real people in their constituencies.

Even Blair made a pretence of going back to Sedgefield for inspiration and critique from his local party. Tom Watson should get up to West Bromwich and do some thinking there IMO.

wow that would be a novelty for West Bromwich - thinking going on!

Spoken as a native of Wolverhampton

Is that wow as in wow factor or wow as in wtf in weary tone (WFTiWT factor)?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:38 pm

that is an exclamation of shock that there is actually some thinking going on in that part of the West Midlands......

I would say most of the brains of the Black Country abide in Wolves but seeing we voted Leave I am not at all sure anymore

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:40 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/684686 ... t-official" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As soon as Article 50 is triggered, the formal process of leaving the EU which will take around two years, English could cease to become one of the designated languages of the institution.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:41 pm

Its less than a week ago (seems much longer) but there was alongside the other thing one local council byelection last Thursday (held as a separate ballot, according to EC rules)

Windsor and Maidenhead - Tory hold, with comfortably over half the vote and a double figure increase since last year. This ward has returned 3 Tory councillors at every election this century (and has always been safe since the LibDems ran them reasonably close back in 2003) but they benefited this time from there being no Independent or Green candidates, after both had polled reasonably on GE day. Second came Labour with a very respectable 24% of the vote, a double figure increase for them on 2015 (when they came fifth - second is their best placing here in recent times) There was a small pro-Tory swing overall since last May, but a modest pro-Labour swing since 2011. LibDems edged them out for second then, but this time dropped to a new low - slightly ahead of UKIP whose 8% was also a bit down from their initial showing a year ago (not much sign of a referendum boost here, at least)

Five contests this week, including a rare Friday contest (so my review may appear at the weekend, assuming the present chaos dies down a little)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:44 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its less than a week ago (seems much longer) but there was alongside the other thing one local council byelection last Thursday (held as a separate ballot, according to EC rules)

Windsor and Maidenhead - Tory hold, with comfortably over half the vote and a double figure increase since last year. This ward has returned 3 Tory councillors at every election this century (and has always been safe since the LibDems ran them reasonably close back in 2003) but they benefited this time from there being no Independent or Green candidates, after both had polled reasonably on GE day. Second came Labour with a very respectable 24% of the vote, a double figure increase for them on 2015 (when they came fifth - second is their best placing here in recent times) There was a small pro-Tory swing overall since last May, but a modest pro-Labour swing since 2011. LibDems edged them out for second then, but this time dropped to a new low - slightly ahead of UKIP whose 8% was also a bit down from their initial showing a year ago (not much sign of a referendum boost here, at least)

Five contests this week, including a rare Friday contest (so my review may appear at the weekend, assuming the present chaos dies down a little)

Thanks Anatoly

Which makes me think, despite my original objections to the idea, I'm now so glad that Batley & Spen will be uncontested in the by-election.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:44 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 09581.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The notion that a return to Blairism would rescue Labour is completely out of touch. If the left does not offer a convincing economic alternative to austerity then the far right will capitalise

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:48 pm

Adam Harrison
‏@AdamDKHarrison
Holborn and St Pancras Labour party rejects motion to support Jeremy Corbyn

Local MP..one Keir Starmer.

Make of that what you will...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:49 pm

I think May is easily the best prospect for the Tories.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:50 pm

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brexit-breakup ... ge-1568158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
"We also discussed the fact that too many people in Europe are unhappy with the current state of affairs and who expect us to do better," said Tusk. "Many recalled that for decades Europe was bringing hope and that we have a responsibility to return to that."

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:58 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its less than a week ago (seems much longer) but there was alongside the other thing one local council byelection last Thursday (held as a separate ballot, according to EC rules)

Windsor and Maidenhead - Tory hold, with comfortably over half the vote and a double figure increase since last year. This ward has returned 3 Tory councillors at every election this century (and has always been safe since the LibDems ran them reasonably close back in 2003) but they benefited this time from there being no Independent or Green candidates, after both had polled reasonably on GE day. Second came Labour with a very respectable 24% of the vote, a double figure increase for them on 2015 (when they came fifth - second is their best placing here in recent times) There was a small pro-Tory swing overall since last May, but a modest pro-Labour swing since 2011. LibDems edged them out for second then, but this time dropped to a new low - slightly ahead of UKIP whose 8% was also a bit down from their initial showing a year ago (not much sign of a referendum boost here, at least)

Five contests this week, including a rare Friday contest (so my review may appear at the weekend, assuming the present chaos dies down a little)
Thanks Anatoly

Which makes me think, despite my original objections to the idea, I'm now so glad that Batley & Spen will be uncontested in the by-election.

Buckby is still standing, isn't he?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:59 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
not just me (or Owen Jones) then

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:02 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its less than a week ago (seems much longer) but there was alongside the other thing one local council byelection last Thursday (held as a separate ballot, according to EC rules)

Windsor and Maidenhead - Tory hold, with comfortably over half the vote and a double figure increase since last year. This ward has returned 3 Tory councillors at every election this century (and has always been safe since the LibDems ran them reasonably close back in 2003) but they benefited this time from there being no Independent or Green candidates, after both had polled reasonably on GE day. Second came Labour with a very respectable 24% of the vote, a double figure increase for them on 2015 (when they came fifth - second is their best placing here in recent times) There was a small pro-Tory swing overall since last May, but a modest pro-Labour swing since 2011. LibDems edged them out for second then, but this time dropped to a new low - slightly ahead of UKIP whose 8% was also a bit down from their initial showing a year ago (not much sign of a referendum boost here, at least)

Five contests this week, including a rare Friday contest (so my review may appear at the weekend, assuming the present chaos dies down a little)
Thanks Anatoly

Which makes me think, despite my original objections to the idea, I'm now so glad that Batley & Spen will be uncontested in the by-election.
Buckby is still standing, isn't he?

Yes as far as I know. But none of the major parties apart from Labour are. At the time, I argued this was undemocratic and that the voters of Batley should be allowed to decide that Labour regain the seat. In the current febrile environment, it's perhaps better for very many reasons that it is as it is.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:04 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think May is easily the best prospect for the Tories.

I thinks she's probably the best prospect for all of us barring a change of government.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:10 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think May is easily the best prospect for the Tories.

I thinks she's probably the best prospect for all of us barring a change of government.

Yes, despite some pretty awful stuff at times, you have to go back a long way to find a Home Secretary who has stayed in post so long.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:11 pm

And with that sobering thought, I'll say night night! Sleep well.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 09516.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Images of Vytenis Andriukaitis, EU Commissioner for Health and Food Safety, with his head in his hand in anguish as Mr Farage spoke, were widely shared on social media, using the hash tag #WeAreSeat123.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:13 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:It is fairly annoying to be snidely attacked for making stuff up about Corbyn. If only that was necessary.

The treasury forecasts were long before Osborne's punishment budget, and easily stand inspection.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7abf7558-28b0 ... z4CztP3swI

If that isn't sabotaging the campaign exactly what is it?

So, I've given you the benefit of the doubt and have spent the past hour plus looking through the Guardian's coverage of the referendum. I managed to get through 4 weeks worth of articles where Corbyn was mentioned. Number of times he 'continuously' undermined the core message of the Remain camp? None. Zero. Nada. Wasn't even mentioned. I didn't make it as far back as 2nd or 3rd of June before I lost the will to live, which is the one time I know for sure he said something about scaremongering and myth-making wrt both Leave and Remain's campaigns, particularly on the economic case of Remain, but for someone who 'continuously' undermined the central tenet of the Remain campaign he was remarkably quiet about it for over 4 weeks afterwards and, from what I recall, the several weeks beforehand as well.

A further observation from an hour plus worth of hundreds of article headlines plus skim reading tens of them is how non-existent virtually anyone from the Labour Party other than Corbyn was. Watson, Benn, Eagle and Kahn get one or two headlines each. There's a smattering of Blair, Mandelson and Brown of course, and Miliband has a brief cameo. But hardly a sustained and aggressive campaign from anyone outside of Corbyn. To be fair, Corbyn also doesn't feature as heavily as perhaps he should have but, hey, it's far more often than anyone else.

Edit: incidentally, I didn't see a single mention of Alan Johnson. Not one. Probably missed the, eh?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:16 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-election
not just me (or Owen Jones) then

We should be so lucky.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:17 pm

Reports that Angela Eagle's own Wallasey party are supporting.......

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:18 pm

....Jeremy Corbyn

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:20 pm

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 15m15 minutes ago
Exc: Times / YouGov poll gives Theresa May 17 point lead in runoff with Boris Johnson

May 55%
Johnson 38%

Oh dear...

I've wondered before whether the whole "Boris is next PM" was a tad premature. It'd be pretty funny if he didn't even get into the final two to go to the members vote.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:23 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684 ... Referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The motion for a 'Nexit' vote was quickly shut down after opposition leader Geert Wilders, of the Party for Freedom (PVV), put it forward.

Ah Geert. With his Indonesian mother and his Hungarian wife.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:24 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 15m15 minutes ago
Exc: Times / YouGov poll gives Theresa May 17 point lead in runoff with Boris Johnson

May 55%
Johnson 38%

Oh dear...

I've wondered before whether the whole "Boris is next PM" was a tad premature. It'd be pretty funny if he didn't even get into the final two to go to the members vote.

Given May 2015 and June 2016 - polls schmolls.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:24 pm

Oh dear me...Alas, poor Boris...

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Conservative Party leader preference:
T. May: 36%
B. Johnson: 27%
A. Leadsom: 7%
S. Crabb: 7%
L. Fox: 4%
(via YouGov / Con members surveyed)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:28 pm

Thoughts from #WeAreSeat123
By Vytenis Andriukaitis

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-20 ... seat123_en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:And with that sobering thought, I'll say night night! Sleep well.

Goodnight, PorFavor

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:33 pm

https://twitter.com/hashtag/WeAreSeat123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Daniel Abson ‏@_omniamutantur_ 5h5 hours ago
Dear Europe+World: we're really sorry about Nigel. We won't give in to hate, fear or anger. #JeSuis123 #WeAreSeat123

Tiz · Post by **Tiz** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:So Eagle is out. Then she's in. That's the kind of determined, decisive leadership we need.

Maybe if she starts reconsidering again she should hold a referendum.

"oh the hokey cokey, oh the hockey cokey................"

Greetings all,

Thanks to those of you who responded to my post last night. Sorry I didn't reply - I was busy catching up on the thread as a whole. Which has also been the case today.

Congratulations @Ephe on your elevation to Royal Status. I was crowned Queen many years ago - of a different Realm [obvs]. So now we are not 'sisters' but Cousins - as is the way of us Royals. I note that you are a connoisseur of the noble game of tennis [unlike that upstart Liz] - quite right too. Djokovic is indeed phenomenal though I can not warm to him.

Be that as it may, all this upset is spoiling my enjoyment of Wimbledon which frankly is unforgivable. The commoners have completely fucked up so now we will have to rely upon The Lords to sort it out in my opinion. The referendum that is, not Wimbledon.

As to the Labour party, well really! What a fuck up. I don't know about you cuz [@ephe] but seems to me that it has to now go to a Leadership vote. Corbyn against whoever. If Corbyn wins, the PLP have to stfu and get behind him. Or split off. If Corbyn loses, the same applies in reverse. Where the Unions decide to take their money is up to them.

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly:

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:43 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:I'm not that bothered by Miliband to be honest. It seems a bit half-hearted and, in some ways, he is right

If you want the easiest option then Corbyn stepping down provides it but it is not the best option now

Sad he said it but doesn't seem that convincing to me

This is going to get interesting.....

Interesting that he didn't say "What Jeremy wants to happen is wrong". Or "Corbyn is a lunatic, his ideas must always be rejected". Nor did he say "please, please, please ask my big brother to come back".

What he did say is that, as is sometimes necessary, a strategic withdrawal now so we can best fight back later might be the best option at the moment.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:53 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:56 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:@TE.

Cobblers. Pure and simple. The core message of the Remain camp was not that it would be economically disastrous, it was that it would be economic Armageddon. It was specious, hyperbolic claptrap. And it was specious, hyperbolic claptrap that was easy to dismiss as being precisely that. If it were an effective message then it would have been the Tory voters (who we are repeatedly told don't pay any attention to Corbyn) that were 60%+ Remain, not the other way around.

It was Cameron, Osborne, Mandelson and Darling who were responsible for that. It was they who were responsible for trying to spook the horses only to find that the horses just stood there blinking at them, thinking, "who are these idiots?"
No that isn't true. It was a core message, it was the core message. From what I can see right now Brexit will be every bit of a disaster as Remain predicted (possibly even worse than they suggested). Even Osborne's budget predictions are likely to prove correct, although his timing of that budget is wrong. There is a risk that faced with a Sterling crisis we may yet end up with a revenue raising budget in the teeth of a recession.

How much impact Corbyn's statements had is debatable, but that they violated the golden rule of campaigning (don't contradict the core message) is not.

Supporting Osborne's statements re the economy would have made it very difficult to impossible to oppose anything in whatever budget he may have tried to put through after Brexit. Because Labour would have publicly agreed with him and campaigned by supporting what he said. Osborne's retort to any questioning from Labour would have been "but you agreed with me! Don't try and pretend you didn't."

One of those horrible times where there's no right answer and all you can do is try and guess which option has the least worse consequences.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:00 pm

http://www.welfareweekly.com/rough-slee ... +Weekly%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rough sleeping in London ‘reaching crisis proportions’, warns homeless charity

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:D.Miliband wouldn't have made Labour win last year.

It was all about the economy, stupid.

When you've lost on economic credibility, it takes more than 5 years to get it back - especially because of that damn note! It really was a master stroke bringing that note out - every time an audience member said "But we had no money left" or "but you overspent", no-one was going to be able to convince people otherwise.

I recall someone (the sort if someone who ought to know and had no horse in the race) saying that the outgoing Treasury minister leaving the note in question or something similar for their successor to find, then one day leave in turn or their successor was, up till then, a kind of long-running parliamentary tradition and far from the only one of its kind.

Cameron cynically used what he knew was basically a Westminster in-joke.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:08 pm

And finally, before bed, twitter humour gets a grip on Johnson

#CurseBorisJohnson

https://twitter.com/hashtag/CurseBorisJohnson?src=hash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:08 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-u ... u-36661425" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit and housing: Radical ideas wanted

I'm told @gregclarkmp and @BrandonLewis to have emergency meeting with housebuilders tomorrow.

Mark Easton

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:10 pm

yahyah wrote:13,000 people said to have joined Labour last week to 'support Corbyn'.

There's going to be all that bitterness about 'I was a member long before you'' again.
Just what we need.

Having been an affiliated member for 33 years I finally decided to take out full membership just before midnight yesterday.

Looks like I may have made it just in time for the wake.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:13 pm

"similar note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:16 pm

I am asking for a refund.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:21 pm

TR'sGhost wrote: I recall someone (the sort if someone who ought to know and had no horse in the race) saying that the outgoing Treasury minister leaving the note in question or something similar for their successor to find, then one day leave in turn or their successor was, up till then, a kind of long-running parliamentary tradition and far from the only one of its kind.

Cameron cynically used what he knew was basically a Westminster in-joke.

It was actually left by Byrne for Philip Hammond who was the Shadow Chief Secretary but Byrne wasn't to know that in the Coalition divide of the spoils Laws was given the job...and the rest is history.

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:23 pm

Good evening.
From the G today at the momentum rally;
By far the biggest cheer is when McDonnell says Corbyn leadership will stop any more "military escapades"
This will be very a popular position with the membership and perhaps even the country after Chilcot. Which will of course be fresh in the mind if an early election is called.
I also wonder how the Trident debate will be influenced by Chilcot shooting down the whole WMD case?
We know that Eagle supports trident.
A pre-emptive strike by McDonnell?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:32 pm

It could be Owen Smith because of Eagle's "Iraq/Syria" problem, source says.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:34 pm

Steve Bell's take on PMQ:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... qs-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:37 pm

He tweeted thanks to me earlier after wishing his brother who is in hospital best wishes and who he was looking after.

O.Smith,not Steve Bell or P.M,that is.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:17 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:On Corbyn and article 50

http://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-ar ... voked-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He said the result of the poll means the exit clause – Article 50, which would give a two year period for Britain to leave – must be observed as soon as possible in an interview with the BBC.

“The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union.
I interpreted this as Corbyn being keen to trigger Article 50 - or do you mean something more specific?

It's a "have you stopped beating your wife yet, yes or no?" situation.

Only two possible "simple" answers, at that stage.

"We should do what the country (barely) voted for and the Prime Minister promised. But we must ensure we get the best we can for the people of this country out of it, rather than the 0.1% who pull Cameron's strings."

or

"Of course we must ignore the referendum. What do the plebs know anyway."

I suppose there's option three, which something along the lines of "Well, we accept the referendum vote of course. As we must if we are to retain any credibility as democrats, to the country any credibility as a democracy. And if we don't Nigel will make hay. So in public we'll tell people we will abide by it. But between you, me and your millions of viewers, we will be covertly working tirelessly to negate the referendum and restore the status quo any way we can think of. But please don't tell anyone that."

But I'm guessing of course. Though I hope it's an educated guess. Jeremy Corbyn has spent his life working in broad-base campaigns, often around things "respectable fit for government" MPs won't touch. Ireland, Palestine, anti-apartheid, CND and the peace movement. Containing people from a huge range of backgrounds and philosophies. He's no stranger to the process of trying to build a cohesive agreed line out of people who agree on some things and profoundly disagree on others.

Of course, to reach agreement all involved must be willing to make an agreement of some sort other than what they say always goes. The usual suspects for destroying broad movements by insane sectarianism are the likes of the SWP and Class War. Who use tactics not unlike the PLP ringleaders, ironically enough.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:23 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tiz wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So Eagle is out. Then she's in. That's the kind of determined, decisive leadership we need.

Maybe if she starts reconsidering again she should hold a referendum.
"oh the hokey cokey, oh the hockey cokey................"

Greetings all,

Thanks to those of you who responded to my post last night. Sorry I didn't reply - I was busy catching up on the thread as a whole. Which has also been the case today.

Congratulations @Ephe on your elevation to Royal Status. I was crowned Queen many years ago - of a different Realm [obvs]. So now we are not 'sisters' but Cousins - as is the way of us Royals. I note that you are a connoisseur of the noble game of tennis [unlike that upstart Liz] - quite right too. Djokovic is indeed phenomenal though I can not warm to him.

Be that as it may, all this upset is spoiling my enjoyment of Wimbledon which frankly is unforgivable. The commoners have completely fucked up so now we will have to rely upon The Lords to sort it out in my opinion. The referendum that is, not Wimbledon.

As to the Labour party, well really! What a fuck up. I don't know about you cuz [@ephe] but seems to me that it has to now go to a Leadership vote. Corbyn against whoever. If Corbyn wins, the PLP have to stfu and get behind him. Or split off. If Corbyn loses, the same applies in reverse. Where the Unions decide to take their money is up to them.

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly:
Speaking of royalty, the author I'm co writing my William the Conqueror book with may be a direct descendant of Edmund Ironside (1016-1016) and I have been pressing her to canvass support for pressing her claim to the throne. Obviously it's necessary for us for Queen Elizabeth to abdicate, as in a straight challenge there's no way we would win, but if we can make life difficult enough for Her Majesty I'm confident we can make her life miserable enough to step aside, leaving the field clear for the House of Ironside to once again take their rightful place at the head of this great country.

Alas, I fear there may be a conflict between us, yet more regrettable factionalism, as I am currently chatting with/teasing a friend in Philadelphia, son of emigrants to Canada, about Paladins, Roncesvalles, the Chanson de Roland and the chivalric tradition on FB. His name? Bolingbroke.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:47 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/684686 ... t-official
As soon as Article 50 is triggered, the formal process of leaving the EU which will take around two years, English could cease to become one of the designated languages of the institution.

MrsTRG says that's unlikely (just like most of what the Express says).

Because everyone already speaks English, it's the "common language" in lower-level negotiations such as drafting the many subordinate Directives and Standards.

She does warn that the "English" isn't quite English English, but "European Standard English" in which the vocabulary and grammar of English as spoken by native English speakers garbled often are. She suspects it's because most European languages the verbs at the end of the sentence put.

Not that important in a meeting, but when the translation and printing people publish the English version of the documents sometimes ensues hilarity and muchness of oddness.

She from experience that is personal speechifies.