Thursday 30th June 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:27 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The civil service is now at its smallest size since the second world war, employing about 392,000 full-time staff, according to the latest figures. It represents an 18% drop since the coalition government came to power in 2010. The government’s spending review has meant that departments have drawn up further staff cuts.

Lord Kerslake, the former head of the civil service, has called on the government to begin a rethink of government cuts to staffing levels because of Brexit.

Not at all ironic in any way at all.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:39 am

Morning

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:46 am

Good to hear about the Green's ideas on an electoral pact.

Maybe if Bennett and Wood hadn't helped Sturgeon attack Ed M and Labour in 2015 we wouldn't be in this Brexit mess now.
Keeping the Tories out then, not splitting the left to gain votes, would have been the sensible option. In my opinion.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:49 am

Ukip Assembly Member seems to have no clue how to respond to constituents.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... y-11544702" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:57 am

Leighton Andrews, Welsh Labour minister who lost his seat to political lightweight Leanne Wood in May, argues for a second referendum:

Leighton Andrews lays out why Labour should promise a second referendum
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... r-11543820" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:06 am

Morning.

My good god, if ever I was wavering about which side I was on, I'm truly sorry.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A LABOUR MP writes:

The Prime Minister demonstrated the moral courage, decency and integrity required of a leader by resigning his position.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:13 am

yahyah wrote:Ukip Assembly Member seems to have no clue ~~how to respond to constituents.~~
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... y-11544702" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ftfy

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:26 am

Labour MP Barry Gardiner made sense on Radio 4 this morning. He wasn't a Corbyn supporter but makes the strong point that the Tories need to be held to account.

Glad that some people are seeing sense. Hopefully there are other Labour MPs who feel the same.
He also said some Labour MPs were reluctant to campaign for Remain for fear of losing their seats.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:27 am

Edit: removed image.

https://t.co/uFVJlsV1zn

Edit: high refitman - still getting the hang of this board... what's the code for resizing images on this board. Following isn't working:

Code: Select all

Including an image
[img]http://www.bbcode.org/images/lubeck_small.jpg[/img]
Resizing the image
[img=100x50]http://www.bbcode.org/images/lubeck_small.jpg[/img]
Making the image clickable (in this case linking to the original image)
[url=http://www.bbcode.org/images/lubeck.jpg][img]http://www.bbcode.org/images/lubeck_small.jpg[/img][/url]
Resizing and adding meta information for the image
[img width="100" height="50" alt="Lubeck city gate" title="This is one of the medieval city gates of Lubeck"]http://www.bbcode.org/images/lubeck_small.jpg[/img]

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:31 am

yahyah wrote: (Image snipped)

Morning

There's a 'Professional alcoholic gambler' label missing from that image. But... face palm indeed.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:32 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

My good god, if ever I was wavering about which side I was on, I'm truly sorry.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A LABOUR MP writes:

The Prime Minister demonstrated the moral courage, decency and integrity required of a leader by resigning his position.

So all this is being (and has been) predicated on an early election? I sometimes wonder (cynical Westmonster-watching head on) whether they decided that, to get rid of Corbyn, the Tories would 'signal' that there 'might be an early election' so the Labour PLP (they'll need a name soon - it's a bit too soon to be insulting though - some of the 172 might decide to jump back onto the good ship 'Hold the Tories Feet to the Fire) can dispose of Corbyn, as he's 'unelectable' and replace with an 'electable' leader (who is the challenger/knight-lady-in-shining-armour going to be again? Heard it would be Eagle, but there seems to be some confusion whether that is the case)...only to get to the point of a new PM/Leader of the Mighty Oppressors to say 'well, actually, we think a snappy lection would add to the instability so no thanks'....at which point, said new Labour leader settles into the accustomed 'slightly odd but acceptable to Murkydochia-Dacreland' role of plucky opposition...whilst trying to convince a small sub-set of the 24% that voted Tory that 'we're the same - vote for us'....instead of trying to motivate 10-15% of the 35-40% that don't vote to vote (my personal belief(TM) is that compulsory voting is the answer - with a none of the above option, natch)...all the time, the very real cries for help from a large proportion of the population go unheard as usual.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:33 am

yahyah wrote:Labour MP Barry Gardiner made sense on Radio 4 this morning. He wasn't a Corbyn supporter but makes the strong point that the Tories need to be held to account.

Glad that some people are seeing sense. Hopefully there are other Labour MPs who feel the same.
He also said some Labour MPs were reluctant to campaign for Remain for fear of losing their seats.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I already thought, it may be the lack of effort at local level that caused some of the Leave vote problems in Northern areas rather than the fault of Corbyn.....we saw on C4 News last night a young activist walking all over Tom Baldwin by saying making 'listening' on immigration rather than focusing on Tory austerity policies played into Leaves hands

Also, can anyone on here justify Jamie Reed's words and explain to me how is helping to represent Labour....I know whose flavour of Labour Party I would like to support

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:51 am

Matt cartoon brilliant as usual

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:53 am

JonnyT1234 wrote: Edit: high refitman - still getting the hang of this board... what's the code for resizing images on this board. Following isn't working:

I use Tinypic which has a Resizing dropdown with a Message Board option so it's the right size when it hits here.

http://tinypic.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:58 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

My good god, if ever I was wavering about which side I was on, I'm truly sorry.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A LABOUR MP writes:

The Prime Minister demonstrated the moral courage, decency and integrity required of a leader by resigning his position.

Jamie Reed is a nasty spiteful little twerp who chose the occasion of Corbyn's leadership acceptance speech to Tweet his resignation from the (as it was then) shadow cabinet.
What he knows about moral courage could be written in triplicate on the head of a pin. Reed's letter to Corbyn has been published everywhere - shame on Reed and the media.

He is also as thick as a brick if he truly believes OGRPPFGTCC resigned for reasons of decency and integrity; as he possesses neither, we can safely assume he did it because he is as craven as he is lazy.

FFS.

What is the actual job of a Member of Parliament? Apart from swearing an oath of allegiance to HMQ and her heirs, what's the job?
I thought it was to represent the constituents who voted for that MP - if a local constituency party demands that their MP does X, is it OK if they do Y? (Yes, I'm thinking of Angela Eagle here).

I saw a reference on Twitter to a Times poll which said that 54% of Labour voters (yes, voters, not members) want Corbyn to stay.
If that's true, the plotters are in for a shock, I think.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:09 am

Oh! Gove running after all.

Jim Pickard
‏@PickardJE
Gove: "I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead....."

Trouble is that everyone's seen the email...

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:14 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Labour MP Barry Gardiner made sense on Radio 4 this morning. He wasn't a Corbyn supporter but makes the strong point that the Tories need to be held to account.

Glad that some people are seeing sense. Hopefully there are other Labour MPs who feel the same.
He also said some Labour MPs were reluctant to campaign for Remain for fear of losing their seats.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I already thought, it may be the lack of effort at local level that caused some of the Leave vote problems in Northern areas rather than the fault of Corbyn.....we saw on C4 News last night a young activist walking all over Tom Baldwin by saying making 'listening' on immigration rather than focusing on Tory austerity policies played into Leaves hands

Also, can anyone on here justify Jamie Reed's words and explain to me how is helping to represent Labour....I know whose flavour of Labour Party I would like to support

I posted this late the other night, so it may have slipped under the radar. I think it raises some very interesting discussions about how many traditional Labour areas feel.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/26/corb ... -think-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:17 am

Morning all

Seems to me the most recent arguments being used by the PLP are an attempt at plausible circularity - we represent the millions of voters who voted Labour not just party members. True at that point but misses the central basis of their existence as MPs. They have to be members of the Labour party to put themselves forward. They have to be chosen by members to stand and they then have the right to expect members of the party to campaign on their behalf. Then, if they win the vote, they represent their constituents. If they want to stand as independents who believe in Labour values that's fine and if they win on that basis they can happily claim their direct accountability to all those who voted for Fred bloggs, the Labour liking candidate until that point their argument is circular.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:20 am

If I look at the letters from Johnson and Reed my first feeling is of nausea followed by utter contempt

I refer them to when Miliband did the same thing yesterday. That is how a decent person expresses themselves

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:20 am

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/cri ... -1-7988476" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still not convinced it's right to leave Buckby as the only other candidate in a place that voted to Leave, personally.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:24 am

NonOxCol wrote:http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/cri ... -1-7988476

Still not convinced it's right to leave Buckby as the only other candidate in a place that voted to Leave, personally.

Me neither.
Choosing your MP can be an emotional decision. Choosing which parties put forward candidates shouldn't be. A dangerous precedent IMHO.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:25 am

Good morfternoon.

As someone else (sorry - I forget who) said last night (I've just had a skim through the posts I missed last night), I have lost the quite considerable respect I used to have for Angela Eagle.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:27 am

Is this unhitching from the Johnson wagon to join up with another later? Dacre and Murdoch behind him things could get interesting, gut says not enough to go deep in the election but sufficient to have some leverage?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:28 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh! Gove running after all.

Jim Pickard
‏@PickardJE
Gove: "I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead....."

Bit slow on the uptake, is Michael Gove.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:29 am

0845
Mr Zahawi says all spouses give their other halves advice.

"Michael has made his decision and you will see him work hand in glove with Boris," he says.

Err...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:33 am

StephenDolan wrote:0845
Mr Zahawi says all spouses give their other halves advice.

"Michael has made his decision and you will see him work hand in glove with Boris," he says.

Err...

I tend to talk to my wife though...not have her order me to do things by email

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:33 am

PorFavor wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh! Gove running after all.

Jim Pickard
‏@PickardJE
Gove: "I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead....."

Bit slow on the uptake, is Michael Gove.

Overnight polls show May ahead of Boris.

Gove and Mrs Gove get in a panic because May and Gove do not get on.

Therefore, chances of Gove getting plum job under May not high.

result...Gove runs.

Chances of Boris even getting in final two?

With Gove being backed by Dacre and Murdoch - pretty slim I'd say.

Oh, and expect immigration to become Theresa May's fault...shitstorm coming her way I'd say...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:37 am

Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:43 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 10591.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I don't even like popcorn either !

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:43 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

This is not a constituency matter though is it...it is the party leadership.....what about Labour voters (a lot of them) with no MP

Do they choose the leader of the party with the thoughts of Tory voters in mind?

Is the Tory leadership battle being done with their constituency non-Tory voters in mind?

If Labour MPS were actually better at representing their constituents perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess......look at turnout in Johnson Hull seat for example.....how come he couldn't even carry his own city for Remain?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:46 am

Philip Collins appears to be backing Gove. That's the end of my Twitter crush then. Gove just as unpalatable as Johnson for me.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:50 am

The MP is Suella Fernandes...chair of governors at Michaela - Birbalsingh's school. No prizes for guessing where her support is now going.

Not sure Labour can take any lectures from Tories about loyalty...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:50 am

RobertSnozers wrote: I think even a Labour Party led by Dianne Abbott would have a fair chance of beating Gove.

Steady on!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:52 am

RobertSnozers wrote:It's also interesting just how little loyalty Johnson has built up within the parliamentary party.

Pretty sure I said a while back that I didn't think that Boris would even make the final two.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:57 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:It's also interesting just how little loyalty Johnson has built up within the parliamentary party.

Pretty sure I said a while back that I didn't think that Boris would even make the final two.

But Norman Smith had said it was inevitable, a coronation.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:58 am

For some light relief I've just been having a chuckle at some of the comments on this Daily Mail article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cover.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: 2016-06-30_095344.jpg (48.9 KiB) Viewed 8518 times

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 9:58 am

This must be like all their Christmases at once for the Lobby journalists.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

Ha! Theresa May pokes fun at Boris Johnson's "nearly new" water cannon, citing them as an example of his negotiating abilities.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

What would you say if a CLP had a vote of no confidence in the MP - would you expect them to stand down?

The history of deselected MPS standing as independents is not one filled with successes. The one I remember was when Blair NEC deselected someone in Wales and he won....I am pretty sure he retained support of local party though

If Eagle wants to stand against wishes of CLP and loses....who knows. It is a shame as I have always liked her and she seems to be being used here. Does she really want to be leader?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:03 am

Apparently Gove didn't even phone Boris about him running - Boris found out from the media.

Such loyal people they are...

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:05 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

Don't disagree and their are mechanisms to ensure that they cannot / should not be held hostage to small number of unrepresentative activists. I am arguing that the free floating circulatory they are claiming is trying to bypass their party accountability by claiming that once they exist they came into being without any basis. An argument I think that only works if they stand as independents and one that denies that any input from whatever party they are elected as.

For instance I have an SNP MP, I expect them to represent my interests as a constituent but I know that they stand for things I do not agree with and accept that is the case because there was a majority SNP vote in my area. That was not a vote (in general terms) for the individual but for the SNP.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:05 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:I tend to talk to my wife though...

Yes, but... Sarah Vine?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:07 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:I tend to talk to my wife though...
Yes, but... Sarah Vine?

Good point

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:07 am

So Corbyn is roundly criticised by his own side for his "reluctant remainer" stance (which I think chimed with a lot of the country) The tories use this to blame anyone who is vaguely of this view for the leave vote yet all of a sudden Theresa May, who did the square root of f..k all during the campaign is riding to the rescue as our nations saviour.

Now Grayling, after telling us last week that politicians should listen to the nations voters, in announcing his support for her, tells us (without any irony given their disreputable actions over the last six years) that they are a one nation party completely ignoring the messages from all around that the referendum result was at least in part a reaction to the us and them, have and have not nature of the country.

If anything brings politics into disrespect (and I will include for balance the recent actions of the PLP) its these kind of hypocritical lies and actions spread or ignored, depending of who said it, by a cowed, biased and corrupt media.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:12 am

danesclose wrote:For some light relief I've just been having a chuckle at some of the comments on this Daily Mail article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... cover.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2016-06-30_095344.jpg

I liked this one.

You know, I think all those that come to the UK do so because they have been horribly misinformed. Like me. I came because I thought I could catch a glimpse of an old culture, spend a bit of time in the great nation that has given so much to the world: Oscar Wilde, William Blake, Dylan Thomas. But I came to the homeland of Nigel Farage and George Osborne. Already during the last election, I felt like being in the class of the "special" kids, but this referendum has educated me beyond any doubt. I'm still European, and thank the gods for it, but my new purpose in life is getting as far as possible from this place, where people are so incredibly stupid that they ruin their own situation and the future of their own children because a xenophobic rag told them it was the way to go. Yes, by all means, Britain, Take A Bow.

And this one:

All you 'Leave' voters now regretting your decision make me sick. You voted for this without even bothering to look into the facts, instead letting this utter rag of a news publication and your own prejudices influence your decision. All the facts were out there for you to look at, had you bothered to try to make an informed, intelligent decision. You should all be utterly ashamed of yourselves.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:14 am

Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 34m34 minutes ago
A text arrives from a senior Team Boris figure: "Gove is a c*** who set this up form start". This is going to be bloody.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:15 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ory-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got to this article from a tweet- think from Gaby Hinsliff. It is an excellent article.

At the bottom I saw the BTL comments. The first proper one was from Temulkar

'Gove is an incompetent minister with delusions about his own capabilities widely despised by everyone he meets as Education Secratary. He is an example of the worst kind of conservatism. No values, no empathy no soul. I hope they do elect him leader after Butch swans off to Bolivia or wherever, as it will be another nail in the coffin of a verminous political party'.

4 years later no need to change a thing. I agree with every word.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:16 am

Are the Tories doing this join up for three quid malarkey thing ? I want to sign up in order to vote for Gove.

#teammichael

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:16 am

I'm sat here (as are many others on the left I suspect) thinking Theresa May as PM might actually be something of a result?

FFS.