Thursday 30th June 2016

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:20 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

OK. I take your point.

If it is the job of the MP to represent all their constituents in matters of government, how can a Labour MP in opposition to a Tory administration be representative of those constituents who did not vote for Labour?
Obviously, if any constituent, whatever their chosen party, needs help with something (eg. a benefit appeal) then their MP is duty bound to help, and they do; but MPs are only really political representatives of those who voted for them, surely?

I think that on issues which are not to do with government generally, and as with what's happening in Labour now, the CLPs certainly do have a say in matters; and in this scenario, it's internal party politics at issue.
As it's the CLPs who campaign to get Labour MPs elected in the first place, surely those CLPs have some say in how their MP acts in matters affecting the party membership, as opposed to all constituents?

I think it would be wrong if CLPs interfered with Parliamentary procedure or tried to bully their MPs into voting in the House in a particular way, for example; but in this situation, I think they have a right to ask their MP to support their wishes on a party basis.

Ho hum. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, A.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

Maeght wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ory-leader

I got to this article from a tweet- think from Gaby Hinsliff. It is an excellent article.

At the bottom I saw the BTL comments. The first proper one was from Temulkar

'Gove is an incompetent minister with delusions about his own capabilities widely despised by everyone he meets as Education Secratary. He is an example of the worst kind of conservatism. No values, no empathy no soul. I hope they do elect him leader after Butch swans off to Bolivia or wherever, as it will be another nail in the coffin of a verminous political party'.

4 years later no need to change a thing. I agree with every word.

So did I. However, after last week I have absolutely zero faith in the ability of the British public to reject him, given the powers that will be on his side and the self-inflicted mess the Labour party finds itself in.

I think Roger has nailed it as regards the likely Mail/Sun attack on May.

Can't see any reason to feel positive about a Gove candidacy.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

PorFavor wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: I think even a Labour Party led by Dianne Abbott would have a fair chance of beating Gove.
Steady on!

......and the beatings will continue until morale improves......

(Akshully, Por, the beating is Natalie Rowe's job. Ask Gidiot)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:36 am

No surprise either about Nick Boles abandoning Boris to run Gove's campaign.

Think Policy Exchange...

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

Question posed from James O'Brien.

When was the last time the nation did not do what Murdoch and Dacre wanted?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:41 am

Apologies in advance, but this is almost as vomit-inducing as Jamie Reed:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:44 am

NonOxCol wrote:Apologies in advance, but this is almost as vomit-inducing as Jamie Reed:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby said it. Must be true.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:49 am

Just 13 months in and it's like a zombie government.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 10:53 am

NonOxCol wrote:Apologies in advance, but this is almost as vomit-inducing as Jamie Reed:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, decent people always abandon the person they promised to back for the leadership without even telling them to let them find out from the media...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:00 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

Yes.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:01 am

Spot the key sentence in this blog. Clue: after the same event, Johnson tried a reverse-ferret on his hopeless Telegraph column from Sunday.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-o ... ble-brutus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is so fucked.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:02 am

Good-morning, everyone.

I've not read all of today's thread yet. I'll do so now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

Elsewhere...Ofsted published their report on inspection results. Including this little gem.

So %age of Good and Outstanding..

LA maintained.............87&
Academy converters....88%

These are equivalent since the sponsor-led were by definition mostly failing schools.

But what's this?

Free schools...........79%

But...but...I thought these were meant to be utterly wonderful and far better than those schools "shackled by local bureaucrats"!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:07 am

Oh look...

Well that didn't take long...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:11 am

I can't find the Michael Gove quote(s) where he painted a self-portrait to demonstrate why he was not a good choice for PM. I think he more or less said he was a bit unstable. Can anyone here help, please?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:13 am

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.
Yes.

I am getting a bit lost here

You are suggesting that the leader of a party should be chosen on what the constituents want.....?

How does that work then?

This is completely nonsensical

The leader of the party should be chosen on the values and vision of that party...

Will Tory MPS give a flying fuck on what their constituents think? Really?

Anyway I think the constituents have spoken by not bloody voting!

This triangulation is getting a bit silly now....just to find another reason to oppose Corbyn

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:18 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... rship-bids" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nadine Dorries ✔ @NadineDorriesMP
Conservative party members will be very very angry if Boris not on final 2. Treachery of Gove won't be forgiven easily
10:55 AM - 30 Jun 2016

You've got to have a bit of a soft spot for Nadine Dorries, her loyalty clearly lies with Tory voters rather than Gove's paymaster Murdoch and the shadowy influence of the Republican Tea Party. If I were a Tory I'd definitely be with her on this and will be curious if it ends up Gove versus May as it will really underline how much the Tory party is under the control of outside interests if it does.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:19 am

Just heard, on the BBC, an archive quote (from not very long ago) from Micheal Gove where he says, "I'm not equipped to be Prime Minister." I am, of course, delighted that he may well have spiked Boris Johnson's cannons, though.

Edited

"Boris" for "Biris" (which he most certainly is - however it's typed)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:20 am

HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.

But they are *Labour* MPs as well, they can't just ignore the wider party as too many of them have done for too long.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:22 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Spot the key sentence in this blog. Clue: after the same event, Johnson tried a reverse-ferret on his hopeless Telegraph column from Sunday.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-o ... ble-brutus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is so fucked.
What was the reverse ferret?

This:

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:23 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... rship-bids
Nadine Dorries ✔ @NadineDorriesMP
Conservative party members will be very very angry if Boris not on final 2. Treachery of Gove won't be forgiven easily
10:55 AM - 30 Jun 2016
You've got to have a bit of a soft spot for Nadine Dorries, her loyalty clearly lies with Tory voters rather than Gove's paymaster Murdoch and the shadowy influence of the Republican Tea Party. If I were a Tory I'd definitely be with her on this and will be curious if it ends up Gove versus May as it will really underline how much the Tory party is under the control of outside interests if it does.

There's a bit of mirroring of the Labour Party situation going on here, isn't there? Although we can rely on the press not to draw the parallel.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:23 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.
But they are *Labour* MPs as well, they can't just ignore the wider party as too many of them have done for too long.

What are your thoughts on how this Corbyn / Eagle / CLP v PLP plays out AK?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:24 am

Sorry folks to bore you with a dream I've just remembered but I'd have still bored you with it had it been a daydream...

The final scene: David steps blinking onto the stage but has every confidence he can put on a show. Rolloing up his sleeves for the task ahead, he calls a member of the audience to join him on stage and asks him to empty his wallet. He obligingly passes them over, cash and bank cards alike and 'poof' in a blinding flash they're gone then David shows us his empty hands to much applause.

"Do you have a watch or a mobile phone?"

David holds out a bag into which both items are dutifully placed, he produces a hammer and smashes the contents and then proceeds to jump on them, picks up the bag and passes it his volunteer who retrieves his damaged goods.

"Ha, ha, Very good. Now can I have my money and property back, please?"

"Sorry? What did you expect?"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:25 am

howsillyofme1 wrote: If Eagle wants to stand against wishes of CLP and loses....who knows. It is a shame as I have always liked her and she seems to be being used here. Does she really want to be leader?

She may do, yes.

She may believe that Corbyn being re-elected will lead to a major split in the party that will give the right free rein for a decade.

(though that is even more certain if he is bureaucratically kept off the ballot paper - thankfully, that now looks unlikely)

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:26 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: What was the reverse ferret?
This:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I see, thanks. My God, was he born without shame or did he have it surgically removed?

It's Boris, he's likeable, who cares what he says, has said in the past or promises for the future. The bubble love him and he makes good copy. Priorities, priorities.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:26 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.
Yes.

I am getting a bit lost here

You are suggesting that the leader of a party should be chosen on what the constituents want.....?

How does that work then?

This is completely nonsensical

The leader of the party should be chosen on the values and vision of that party...

Will Tory MPS give a flying fuck on what their constituents think? Really?

Anyway I think the constituents have spoken by not bloody voting!

This triangulation is getting a bit silly now....just to find another reason to oppose Corbyn

I think the point is an MP has a duty to represent their constituents but, as far as I know, are under no obligation to accept a shadow cabinet role. Surely Angela Eagle is entitled to resign from shadow cabinet if she so wishes? Getting together a petition for Angela Eagle to resign as an MP because she stood down from shadow Corbyn cabinet, as Corbyn fans are currently doing and circling on Twitter is staggeringly undemocratic. She was made an MP by her constituents and she will no longer be an MP when they don't vote for her. At the end of the day, even the CLP can't demand their MP accept a shadow cabinet role, a person is entitled to a certain control over their own career and working life. Other than not wanting to be a shadow cabinet member, what in actual fact ( rather than in gossip and innuendo ) has Angela Eagle actually done?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.
But they are *Labour* MPs as well, they can't just ignore the wider party as too many of them have done for too long.

What are your thoughts on how this Corbyn / Eagle / CLP v PLP plays out AK?

How about following party rules for a starting point.....party members decide on the leader...quite simple

Up to PLP what happens next then....do they all speak with one voice though?

Surely the have a plan....can't be just like the Brexit lot surely?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:30 am

RobertSnozers wrote:You mean...? We have no automatic right to go and live on the Costa del Sol? Those filthy, ungrateful Eurocrats!

It is a misconception that we currently have the automatic right to live in another EU country. Even with Britain as a member of the EU, Britons can be sent packing after three months if we have no job or any other means of supporting ourselves.
'Oh dear, did we not mention all this stuff when we were inciting you to vote leave on behalf of our billionaire non-dom owner?'

(cJA edit & emphasis)

I can't find an emoticon or the words to adequately express thanks, RobertSnozers. Let's all get this straight - the UK voting to leave the EU is wholly disastrous for anyone without independent wealth. Even well-to-do business owners unable to relocate or weather extended times of economic hardship are going to go under. Tenants unable to pay rent due to job losses won't fund any landlords' retirement.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:33 am

HS2. Check.
Heathrow. Check.
Hinkley Point TBD.

Infrastructure. Who needs it?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:34 am

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Yes.

I am getting a bit lost here

You are suggesting that the leader of a party should be chosen on what the constituents want.....?

How does that work then?

This is completely nonsensical

The leader of the party should be chosen on the values and vision of that party...

Will Tory MPS give a flying fuck on what their constituents think? Really?

Anyway I think the constituents have spoken by not bloody voting!

This triangulation is getting a bit silly now....just to find another reason to oppose Corbyn
I think the point is an MP has a duty to represent their constituents but, as far as I know, are under no obligation to accept a shadow cabinet role. Surely Angela Eagle is entitled to resign from shadow cabinet if she so wishes? Getting together a petition for Angela Eagle to resign as an MP because she stood down from shadow Corbyn cabinet, as Corbyn fans are currently doing and circling on Twitter is staggeringly undemocratic. She was made an MP by her constituents and she will no longer be an MP when they don't vote for her. At the end of the day, even the CLP can't demand their MP accept a shadow cabinet role, a person is entitled to a certain control over their own career and working life. Other than not wanting to be a shadow cabinet member, what in actual fact ( rather than in gossip and innuendo ) has Angela Eagle actually done?

She can't be made to resign as an MP but is that any different from having an unconstitutional no confidence vote to force the leader to resign?

What they have a right to say though is that they do not consider her suitable to represent the Labour Party in a GE....she is entitled to stand as an Independent and, as she is still popular, she would win surely?

You cannot avoid the fact that this has been an attempt to force the leader to resign and replace him with a PLP choice. There is a way to challenge the leader properly and this was not it

I am not surprised at the anger of certain CLP

I feel sorry for Angela myself. I get the feeling she has no desire to be leader and is being used by a more malignant part of the party

She is a good shadow minister and personally hope she gets through this

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:36 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Represent ALL their constituents not just those that voted for them and not a hostage to the demands of their CLP,I humbly suggest.
Yes.

I am getting a bit lost here

You are suggesting that the leader of a party should be chosen on what the constituents want.....?

How does that work then?

This is completely nonsensical

The leader of the party should be chosen on the values and vision of that party...

Will Tory MPS give a flying fuck on what their constituents think? Really?

Anyway I think the constituents have spoken by not bloody voting!

This triangulation is getting a bit silly now....just to find another reason to oppose Corbyn

You are confused,most likely because I didn't make clear what I was responding to.What is an M.P. was the question attended to.I am simple,have no axe to grind beyond occasionally answering questions I think I can answer.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:36 am

If Corbyn won again, who's head would explode first. Bryant, Streeting or Reed?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:38 am

Did we see this yesterday?

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"It could ultimately destroy our democracy."

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:48 am

Chakrabarti inquiry: Labour not overrun by anti-Semitism - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36672022" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Inquiry verdict to get as much coverage as the claims got yes?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:48 am

I assume that Boris Johnson has got this speech timed down to the nano-second (deadline-wise) for dramatic effect. But, at the moment, the tone and content of his speech seems to me to be pointing at capitulation. I'm often wrong about these things, though . . . .

Edited to add an "s"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:54 am

Oh, I say - bad luck, old chap!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:57 am

Johnson the chicken.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:57 am

Quo vadis, Boris Johnson?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 11:57 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
I am getting a bit lost here

You are suggesting that the leader of a party should be chosen on what the constituents want.....?

How does that work then?

This is completely nonsensical

The leader of the party should be chosen on the values and vision of that party...

Will Tory MPS give a flying fuck on what their constituents think? Really?

Anyway I think the constituents have spoken by not bloody voting!

This triangulation is getting a bit silly now....just to find another reason to oppose Corbyn
I think the point is an MP has a duty to represent their constituents but, as far as I know, are under no obligation to accept a shadow cabinet role. Surely Angela Eagle is entitled to resign from shadow cabinet if she so wishes? Getting together a petition for Angela Eagle to resign as an MP because she stood down from shadow Corbyn cabinet, as Corbyn fans are currently doing and circling on Twitter is staggeringly undemocratic. She was made an MP by her constituents and she will no longer be an MP when they don't vote for her. At the end of the day, even the CLP can't demand their MP accept a shadow cabinet role, a person is entitled to a certain control over their own career and working life. Other than not wanting to be a shadow cabinet member, what in actual fact ( rather than in gossip and innuendo ) has Angela Eagle actually done?
She has called for Corbyn to step down, against the wishes of her constituency party, and mooted standing against him, against the wishes of her constituency party.

And that's just if you accept her version that she was 100% loyal to Corbyn before stepping down.

I can largely buy that, yes.

Look at the Syria vote, for instance - she voted "against" JC but never made a song and dance about it. Unlike certain others.......

Both she and Owen Smith (also a possible runner, apparently) could make an at least vaguely credible claim that they tried their best to make a Corbyn leadership "work". In some respects Smith is a more attractive candidate than Eagle, a shame he has made "end freedom of movement" noises (AE hasn't)

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:00 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:If Corbyn won again, who's head would explode first. Bryant, Streeting or Reed?
Definitely Reed, followed by Chris Leslie

Jess Phillips will probably have a twitter meltdown.

I think the chances of corbyn losing are diminishing by the minute.

Had they simply challenged and fought a clean campaign with a chosen unity candidate to stand against him, I think they might have won. This way they have painted themselves into a corner, and their behaviour - frankly repugnant - has made him into a hero.

So, I fear a split is coming, but the political climate is very different to the 80s, I think such a split now would be even more unsuccessful.

What surprises me more than anything above all is the complete ineptitude of the plot, its timing, execution, and the misjudgment of the mood off the country at large. If anyone wonders why Labour lost the last two elections you can just look at the plot.

Cambell used to strike fear into people because he was a ruthless arch manipulator, that is a skill he lost long ago. Bullying a bearded old man - however fit and I bet he could outrun me 20 years his junior - a week before chilcot is so monumentally out of touch with reality its frightening.

Maybe AC just hates beardies

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:05 pm

Anyway, looks like Boris has bottled it. Even by his standards, incredible.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:08 pm

PorFavor wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh! Gove running after all.

Jim Pickard
‏@PickardJE
Gove: "I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead....."

Bit slow on the uptake, is Michael Gove.

Isn't he just.

A man who knows all about education and teaching methods because he went to school. Who knows all about how to run a justice system, the courts and tribunals because he's seen Judge John Deed and Rumpole of the Bailey. And all about running a country because he lives in one.

I'm coming to the conclusion that right now no-one with any sense would want to lead the Tories and be Prime Minister. It means picking up the biggest fur cup since no-one can even suggest when, full to the brim with vitriol and poison and swallowing every last drop while wearing the kind of smile usually found on the face of a third-rate confidence trickster or fifth-rate seller of used cars.

Which says a lot about those now fighting like rats in a sack to get the job.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:08 pm

Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:13 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?

You can see the sentiment he actually means - but he will be slaughtered for this, and become "The man who compared Israel to ISIS!! ".... that is the only message the press will hear.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:14 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?

I would like to add to that.

Our British friends (well,most of them) are not responsible for the actions of Nigel Farage.

Other than that,spot on.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:16 pm

...[T]wo elements of the government’s decision-making in relation to withdrawal from the EU seem to be worthy of judicial review.

First, the original motivation for the holding of a referendum seems not to have been the public interest, but the particular interest
of a political party. ...[A]challenge not to the Referendum Act of Parliament – challenging the validity of an act of parliament would
raise formidable problems of general constitutional law – but to the actions of the government in the process leading up to that
legislation.

Secondly,...the very substance of the decision is flawed in some fundamental way that takes it beyond the outer limits of the power.

In the light of the current law, it is possible that a court might take the view that it is arbitrary and unreasonable and disproportionate,
in the legal sense of those words, to base the vastly important decision to withdraw from the EU on the opinion expressed by a bare
majority of people taking part in a referendum provided for in an act of parliament – but an act of parliament that makes no provision
for the legal effect of that referendum – thereby ignoring the opinion expressed by a very large minority. Governments are governments
of the whole nation, not of a favourable constituency.

- Forget the politics – Brexit may be unlawful

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wful-eu-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:17 pm

Are the same people who "love" Boris Johnson the ones who admire Michael Gove? Is he (MG - assuming he makes the final two) also now sunk because of his actions re Boris Johnson?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:17 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?

If those are his exact words the no problem

Surely the message is that co-religionists are not responsible for states or organisations who identify themselves with that religion

There is only one Jewish state, there are multiple Islamic ones

If people are reading it as just Islamic State (although they are included in the collective) then they are being a bit naughty

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:20 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?
You can see the sentiment he actually means - but he will be slaughtered for this, and become "The man who compared Israel to ISIS!! ".... that is the only message the press will hear.

I expect it from the press

If any Labour MP uses it against him though that is unforgiveable

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 12:21 pm

Rebecca wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the [Binyamin] Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

Corbyn.

Anyone care to comment?

I would like to add to that.

Our British friends (well,most of them) are not responsible for the actions of Nigel Farage.

Other than that,spot on.

"Our Irish friends are not responsible for the actions of the IRA or the UVF"