Thursday 30th June 2016

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:12 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting...

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
I'm told 4 shadow cabinet members (Clive Lewis, Cat Smith, Rachel Maskell, Andy McDonald) want Corbyn to go and have been trying to see him.

Could be but Eaton has been spouting an unending stream of nonsense recently, so...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting...

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
I'm told 4 shadow cabinet members (Clive Lewis, Cat Smith, Rachel Maskell, Andy McDonald) want Corbyn to go and have been trying to see him.
Speaking of "Andys" - where is Mr Burnham?

Keeping well out of this shambles

I bet he is ready to pick up the pieces though

If Corbyn goes he is ready to stand and bet he would stand a bloody good chance

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

Yeah I know but...

(((Dan Hodges)))Verified account
‏@DPJHodges
Understand Corbyn on edge of resigning.

If true, now we'll see who really wants to lead and has been keeping quiet so far.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

Boris, another one walking away from the consequences of his actions.
I heard part of May's speech this morning, something about no mandate for free movement. Hope it comes back to haunt her.

Has anyone photoshopped a picture of Sarah Vine with Gove in her pocket yet?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:Andrea Leadsom backs May

Doesn't look like it

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

yahyah wrote:It does feel as if the world is regaining a little more stability doesn't it mbc ?

On the other hand, after a 75 minute team time that has taken up the intervening period, it is once more all askew.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:33 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Andrea Leadsom backs May
Doesn't look like it
She said so when interviewed for WatO about an hour ago.

Don't tell me that's changed in the meantime

I though she is standing ??

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:36 pm

From AS blog
But, although it is only the candidate who comes bottom who has to drop out, it is not unusual for other candidates to drop out if they realise they have no hope of winning. If Theresa May and Michael Gove are far ahead of the other three candidates on Tuesday (which is very possible), it is possible that Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom could all drop out then,

So Leadsom is standing - perhaps to take 1st round votes from Crabb & Fox ?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:39 pm

See at Guardian Emma Reynolds having to get her 5 minutes

Wolverhampton NEC MP......Bloody useless.....and ask her why she wasn't out getting her constituents to vote Remain?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

Willow904 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.

Ask the people trying to get rid of him....they will have prepared for this surely?

How does the party function if the MPs are completed disconnected from their local parties?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

Ruth Smeeth's Statement on today's launch of the Chakrabarti Report

http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_ ... rti_report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:45 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Yeah I know but...

(((Dan Hodges)))Verified account
‏@DPJHodges
Understand Corbyn on edge of resigning.

If true, now we'll see who really wants to lead and has been keeping quiet so far.
I find it surprising that he would hang on for so long, and then just as it finally looks as though someone is going to stand, steps down. Doesn't ring true for me. Didn't we have rumours yesterday or the day before that he was about to resign but was talked into staying by Seumas Milne?

Well quite. The political journalists are in gossip heaven. I don't think any reports that something might happen are worth tuppence. We know Tom Watson isn't going to stand for leader because he said so on telly and his name's not Michael Gove, but beyond that we know nothing of substance.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Ruth Smeeth's Statement on today's launch of the Chakrabarti Report

http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_ ... rti_report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a sense of the boy crying wolf here....I am struggling to discern truth from misdirection

It would help if I hadn't seen so many misquotes from the event this morning

I hope she is okay and if it happened it is completely wrong but I apologise if I am getting a bit cynical with all these 'complaints'

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:48 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:See at Guardian Emma Reynolds having to get her 5 minutes

Wolverhampton NEC MP......Bloody useless.....and ask her why she wasn't out getting her constituents to vote Remain?

She is chair of the PLP health committee, she has a right to object to the Shadow Chancellor setting up a parallel organisation to formulate health policy, in secret, & working with people who stood candidates against Labour in last election.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:49 pm

I see Nick Timothy has taken a leave of absence from New Schools Network to run May's campaign.

How on earth is the NSN allowed to have charitable status when it is so nakedly political in one direction?

If someone did this for the Labour equivalent, the usual suspects would be bleating about it for months.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:52 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:See at Guardian Emma Reynolds having to get her 5 minutes

Wolverhampton NEC MP......Bloody useless.....and ask her why she wasn't out getting her constituents to vote Remain?
She is chair of the PLP health committee, she has a right to object to the Shadow Chancellor setting up a parallel organisation to formulate health policy, in secret, & working with people who stood candidates against Labour in last election.

Frank Field worked for the Tory Government

And she is still a bloody awful MP.....is this so important now......we don't have a functioning PLP at all

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:52 pm

yahyah wrote:How long will the period of reflection be then ? Until Bozo/Gove are off the headlines.

Just desperate to find out just who the wonder candidate that we will be expected to vote for is, the person who will attract voters to Labour and unite the party.

Walkin' among our people
There's someone who's straight and strong
To lead us from desolation
And a broken world gone wrong

Someone walks among us
And I hope he hears the call
And maybe it's a woman
Or a black man after all

From "Lookin For A Leader" by Neil Young

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:53 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.
Ask the people trying to get rid of him....they will have prepared for this surely?

How does the party function if the MPs are completed disconnected from their local parties?

I know, I know. But all these MPs were once connected to their local parties because they were all initially selected over other people. Is it all the MPs fault if the local parties have changed while their views have remained the same?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:54 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:See at Guardian Emma Reynolds having to get her 5 minutes

Wolverhampton NEC MP......Bloody useless.....and ask her why she wasn't out getting her constituents to vote Remain?
She is chair of the PLP health committee, she has a right to object to the Shadow Chancellor setting up a parallel organisation to formulate health policy, in secret, & working with people who stood candidates against Labour in last election.

Yes, but she is also a fairly ghastly person who was (by all accounts) one of those whining and gossiping (off the record, of course) about Ed M throughout his time as leader. I'm not terribly surprised if McDonnell had little confidence in her to do anything useful, frankly.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:55 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:See at Guardian Emma Reynolds having to get her 5 minutes

Wolverhampton NEC MP......Bloody useless.....and ask her why she wasn't out getting her constituents to vote Remain?
She is chair of the PLP health committee, she has a right to object to the Shadow Chancellor setting up a parallel organisation to formulate health policy, in secret, & working with people who stood candidates against Labour in last election.

Frank Field worked for the Tory Government

And she is still a bloody awful MP.....is this so important now......we don't have a functioning PLP at all

Whether you like her or not is not the issue.
The Shadow Chancellor working behind the back of the chair of the PLP health committee is the issue, and perhaps indicative of why so many in the PLP have found current leadership hard to work with.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:56 pm

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.
Ask the people trying to get rid of him....they will have prepared for this surely?

How does the party function if the MPs are completed disconnected from their local parties?
I know, I know. But all these MPs were once connected to their local parties because they were all initially selected over other people. Is it all the MPs fault if the local parties have changed while their views have remained the same?

Are you advocating mandatory reselection?

I would suggest we don't do that as a standard but the MP should be sensitive to changes in the local party and not vote or stand against a leader if that is their overwhelming will

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:58 pm

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.
Ask the people trying to get rid of him....they will have prepared for this surely?

How does the party function if the MPs are completed disconnected from their local parties?
I know, I know. But all these MPs were once connected to their local parties because they were all initially selected over other people. Is it all the MPs fault if the local parties have changed while their views have remained the same?

In many cases IMO, MPs have lost touch with the wider party due to the deeply unhealthy culture of the Westminster "bubble" they inhabit - and they have become almost "institutionalised". Reports that certain of them were "too scared" to go canvassing in the Brexit referendum are all too credible, sadly.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 2:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: She is chair of the PLP health committee, she has a right to object to the Shadow Chancellor setting up a parallel organisation to formulate health policy, in secret, & working with people who stood candidates against Labour in last election.

Frank Field worked for the Tory Government

And she is still a bloody awful MP.....is this so important now......we don't have a functioning PLP at all
Whether you like her or not is not the issue.
The Shadow Chancellor working behind the back of the chair of the PLP health committee is the issue, and perhaps indicative of why so many in the PLP have found current leadership hard to work with.

There are so many of these things getting reported now it is getting difficult to be bothered. There is a concerted push to do anything to get rid of him

Perhaps the leadership found it difficult as well with all the briefing to tame journalists

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:00 pm

It appears that a former Special Adviser for Policy & Comms in early Blair government registered http://angela4leader.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on Sat.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:01 pm

That would be two days before her resignation, that was not pre-planned in anyway, so sir, no organisation at all, completely spontaneous.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:03 pm

The other side

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 11366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:05 pm

Can't we have just one piece of good news in 2016?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you know what I might be saying here.

minch · Post by **minch** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:08 pm

If Corbyn resigns and therefore there is a new election for a leader would the PLP allow a similarly left wing MP to stand (i.e. like last time nominate someone they didn't much care for to create balance)?
If not who will the Corbyn supporters vote for or will they just leave the party?
If they leave is that a good thing?

Perhaps the PLP are more important than the members, in which case should their votes not be worth more than the members (how about every PLP vote being worth 1000 of the members votes).

Perhaps they should do what the Conservatives do and put forward two preferred candidates for the members to vote on? We will see how well that works out on the Conservative side later.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:11 pm

Yes, but Gove also "looks weird". Seriously, no amount of even Murdoch hagiography can alter that.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:16 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dog ... =good-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some good news, however small, that love binds each and every one of us; hate divides us.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:17 pm

Video of when Ruth Smeeth walked out

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/jewis ... ism-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems an exchange focused on lack of ethnic minorities in the Labour ranks. I believe he also mentioned her specifically and her links to the Telegraph. Unpleasant - perhaps, antisemitic doubtful

Is there anything that supports her statement out there? Seems it was on camera

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:23 pm

An actual letter to the Telegraph.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:25 pm

minch wrote:If Corbyn resigns and therefore there is a new election for a leader would the PLP allow a similarly left wing MP to stand (i.e. like last time nominate someone they didn't much care for to create balance)?
If not who will the Corbyn supporters vote for or will they just leave the party?
If they leave is that a good thing?

Perhaps the PLP are more important than the members, in which case should their votes not be worth more than the members (how about every PLP vote being worth 1000 of the members votes).

Perhaps they should do what the Conservatives do and put forward two preferred candidates for the members to vote on? We will see how well that works out on the Conservative side later.

What is important, far more than the members, are the voters. The function of the Labour Party is to put forward a centre left platform on which it can get elected. Once elected it should attempt to move the country to the left rendering right wing politics unelectable (which is where Blair screwed up). This by its nature moves the concept of centre left to the left.

Where the party is currently broken is that the subversion of the membership by the £3 brigade means that many "members" have no interest in the Labour Party and still less interest in getting elected.

This effectively leaves the country with no opposition party capable of challenging the government.

The system of election you describe above is the old electoral college, where MPs, Unions, Members were 3 sections and MPs had more weight. It was a bit rubbish, but should probably be re-instated ASAP.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:26 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Video of when Ruth Smeeth walked out

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/jewis ... ism-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems an exchange focused on lack of ethnic minorities in the Labour ranks. I believe he also mentioned her specifically and her links to the Telegraph. Unpleasant - perhaps, antisemitic doubtful

Is there anything that supports her statement out there? Seems it was on camera

I am happy to take her word for it, you should be as well.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:28 pm

... The reforms introduced into Labour’s constitution by Ed Miliband – allowing individual members of the public to take part in the leadership election on payment of a £3 fee (a move which received overwhelming endorsement by Conference) and decreeing that the Leader would be elected by ‘one member one vote’ – have actually strengthened the influence of affiliated unions over the leadership contest.

Jeremy Corbyn was, under this system, elected Leader of the Labour Party by almost 60 per cent of the party membership. Yesterday the general secretaries of ten of the country’s largest trade unions pledged their continued confidence in Corbyn as Leader. If Labour MPs find this state of affairs uncomfortable, it is always open to them to resign their parliamentary seats and fight by-elections on this issue. That would be an honourable way out. If they recoil from this prospect, a period of silence on their parts would be very welcome.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/je ... ur-leader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01455.jpg (78.86 KiB) Viewed 6152 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:29 pm

Voters are important obviously, but the real point is that Labour cannot reach out to them effectively without strength on the ground.

It cannot thrive, or maybe even survive, as a "zombie" party dependent on rich donors and favourable media coverage. Tories can (at least for the time being)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:33 pm

Post-Brexit alliance building with Caroline Lucas MP (Green Party), Clive Lewis MP (Labour Party, Shadow Defense Secretary), John Harris (Journalist), Amina Gichinga (Take Back the City) & more tbc.
Good to see some collaboration happening.
Clive Lewis is one - from the left (I think?) - to watch perhaps ?

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/post-bre ... 6347951432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

minch · Post by **minch** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:36 pm

I do hope the PLP are very sure that voters will not vote Labour while JC is leader. If he is such a liability why is the Conservative party pulling back from holding a GE when they have a new leader. I would have thought that a new leader would take any chance to increase their overall majority in the house.

minch · Post by **minch** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

I do think that the £3 member was a mistake. All voting members should be fully paid up members.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:39 pm

I suspect than when Michael has sex, he's told whether or not he enjoyed it.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:42 pm

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Can anyone explain to me how it is possible for Jeremy Corbyn to go on another leadership ballot, get elected again as leader and, with 80% of the PLP still having no confidence in him, somehow not preside over the end of the Labour party?

Is the plan to hang on until Corbyn supporters have gained control of the NEC and so can change the rules and deselect all the rebels? And if that's 80% of the PLP is the SNP not right in suggesting they are the official opposition? Or would that be the Recently Labour but now all Independents Party? And isn't this a bit risky if there isn't a snap election, as the Corbyn Labour Party would be a diminished force for up to 4 years before they can put up new candidates?

I know this post is provocative but I'm tying to understand how the Labour Party can survive if Corbyn doesn't resign.
Ask the people trying to get rid of him....they will have prepared for this surely?

How does the party function if the MPs are completed disconnected from their local parties?
I know, I know. But all these MPs were once connected to their local parties because they were all initially selected over other people. Is it all the MPs fault if the local parties have changed while their views have remained the same?

This is an attempt by the Stop The Socialist Class War Coalition to take over the Labour Party. These people don't care about being elected or winning power but after years in the wilderness the fact anybody in the media listens to them, and they get salaried jobs is enough for them.

Corbyn is sadly for him their meal ticket, I almost wonder if his comments today were an attempt to render his own position untenable and thus bring this to an end (without specifically walking away from his friends). If they lose him now they lose it all.

The plan is (as always) to organise and infiltrate. Firstly get 50-60 MPs so they always get on the ballot, and secondly flood the membership with activists and use this to ensure only candidates from the hard left are elected. They will use reselection and flood constituencies to get their candidates on the ballot. See early reports of Momentum just grabbing control of a local party in the NE, and active reselection campaigns already running in some Labour seats.

What they will do when the party is left with only 20-30 MPs in a couple of electoral cycles they don't seem to consider. Many of these people believe if the left loses for long enough violent revolution will propel them to power.

Obviously there were many people who voted Corbyn last time round who fit into the - want to win but want a return to Labour Values(TM). This is a different constituency, which may now be starting to peel away from STSCWC.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:43 pm

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:46 pm

Something else to consider in all this is that Labour "activists" are not a homogeneous group. In both (highly marginal) constituencies where I've helped out, members were from across the Labour spectrum. In fact, in my experience, the most active activists don't spend their time sitting round plotting the rise or fall of anyone. Mostly they'll be worrying how to get the next round of 20,000 election leaflets delivered, fund raising for campaigns and so on.

And let's not forget these activists spend a lot of time with voters in constituencies. They are the eyes and ears of their MP or candidate. In my experience the activists will try to select a candidate who will win. End of.

Of course there are factions and some areas do have entryism problems, but most Labour MPs probably spend less time with their constituents than their most active activists, especially the ones who are councillors.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:47 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Video of when Ruth Smeeth walked out

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/jewis ... ism-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems an exchange focused on lack of ethnic minorities in the Labour ranks. I believe he also mentioned her specifically and her links to the Telegraph. Unpleasant - perhaps, antisemitic doubtful

Is there anything that supports her statement out there? Seems it was on camera
I am happy to take her word for it, you should be as well.

I bet you are

I will explain

The statement starts by demanding the resignation of Corbyn. Suggests this is the main objective

There is a video of the incident that doesn't contain any anti-Semitic comments. The activist is proposing de selections and complains about the 'too white' make up of the audience. He also made some comment about her links to the Telegraph

The activist in a known anti racist campaigner. Not fair on him if it is a false accusation

In light of that surely his word is as important as hers

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Voters are important obviously, but the real point is that Labour cannot reach out to them effectively without strength on the ground.

It cannot thrive, or maybe even survive, as a "zombie" party dependent on rich donors and favourable media coverage. Tories can (at least for the time being)

Here is the kicker though. Most of the Corbyn supporters do not get involved in actual campaigning. This means they live in a facebook bubble and do not hear the feedback from the voters. See Chi's post earlier this week.

If MPs thought Corbyn was popular we would not be where we are today. The blue touch paper seems to have been the recent experience on the ground in their constituencies. If you look at the local election results it is clear Corbyn is far less popular than Miliband.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:52 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Video of when Ruth Smeeth walked out

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/jewis ... ism-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems an exchange focused on lack of ethnic minorities in the Labour ranks. I believe he also mentioned her specifically and her links to the Telegraph. Unpleasant - perhaps, antisemitic doubtful

Is there anything that supports her statement out there? Seems it was on camera
I am happy to take her word for it, you should be as well.
I bet you are

I will explain

The statement starts by demanding the resignation of Corbyn. Suggests this is the main objective

There is a video of the incident that doesn't contain any anti-Semitic comments. The activist is proposing de selections and complains about the 'too white' make up of the audience. He also made some comment about her links to the Telegraph

The activist in a known anti racist campaigner. Not fair on him if it is a false accusation

In light of that surely his word is as important as hers

So you are asking me to take the word of somebody you know nothing about over an MP who claims she suffered abuse from this individual. You justify that on the basis of some sort of conspiracy and then chuck in some random insult in my general direction.

Not a great advert for left wing values.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:53 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Voters are important obviously, but the real point is that Labour cannot reach out to them effectively without strength on the ground.

It cannot thrive, or maybe even survive, as a "zombie" party dependent on rich donors and favourable media coverage. Tories can (at least for the time being)
Here is the kicker though. Most of the Corbyn supporters do not get involved in actual campaigning. This means they live in a facebook bubble and do not hear the feedback from the voters. See Chi's post earlier this week.

If MPs thought Corbyn was popular we would not be where we are today. The blue touch paper seems to have been the recent experience on the ground in their constituencies. If you look at the local election results it is clear Corbyn is far less popular than Miliband.

It looks like not all the MPs were that bothered in campaigning for Remain either!

Perhaps they don't feel any connection to their local MP.....I wouldn't campaign for a lot of this rabble

Even though I live abroad I often come back to campaign.....haven't any inclination to do so for Emma Reynolds though....she has no regard for anyone but herself

Ken Purchase was a different story altogether

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 3:58 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: I am happy to take her word for it, you should be as well.
I bet you are

I will explain

The statement starts by demanding the resignation of Corbyn. Suggests this is the main objective

There is a video of the incident that doesn't contain any anti-Semitic comments. The activist is proposing de selections and complains about the 'too white' make up of the audience. He also made some comment about her links to the Telegraph

The activist in a known anti racist campaigner. Not fair on him if it is a false accusation

In light of that surely his word is as important as hers
So you are asking me to take the word of somebody you know nothing about over an MP who claims she suffered abuse from this individual. You justify that on the basis of some sort of conspiracy and then chuck in some random insult in my general direction.

Not a great advert for left wing values.

I explained above....get over yourself

There is a coordinated attack to get him out....so yes a conspiracy is possible

I have seen the video which backs up his version of events. What was the anti-Semitic insult then ...there were plenty of people there?

Also I have seen Corbyn's comments completely distorted by MPs and journalists. Obviously I was wrong there as well

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Jun, 2016 4:07 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Voters are important obviously, but the real point is that Labour cannot reach out to them effectively without strength on the ground.

It cannot thrive, or maybe even survive, as a "zombie" party dependent on rich donors and favourable media coverage. Tories can (at least for the time being)
Here is the kicker though. Most of the Corbyn supporters do not get involved in actual campaigning. This means they live in a facebook bubble and do not hear the feedback from the voters. See Chi's post earlier this week.

If MPs thought Corbyn was popular we would not be where we are today. The blue touch paper seems to have been the recent experience on the ground in their constituencies. If you look at the local election results it is clear Corbyn is far less popular than Miliband.
So it's not the 'mouth breathing activists' who are the problem now, it's all those keyboard warriors who aren't activists?

Firstly mouth breathing is your statement not mine. These are not stupid people they just have a particular world view.

Secondly I am simply pointing out that real research indicates these activists are not particularly engaged when it comes to campaigning. Therefore the implicit assumption that their loss would destroy the Labour Party on the ground in the OP is not necessarily correct.