sat 2 and sun 3 july in worst year for quite some time

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:05 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:I see that it seems to be that the accusation that I twisted someone's words seems to have been accepted (judging on the likes for the post accusing it)

I do not mind being challenged for my politics or my views but I if people think I twist people's words then I no longer have any credibility

I will no longer post here

Please don't leave.
Your posts mirror my thoughts.
I am voting howsillyofmeRemain.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:16 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:I see that it seems to be that the accusation that I twisted someone's words seems to have been accepted (judging on the likes for the post accusing it)

I do not mind being challenged for my politics or my views but I if people think I twist people's words then I no longer have any credibility

I will no longer post here

Emotions are running very high. The Labour party could very well not survive and this is very upsetting to people who have supported it for so long, so I hope you'll find it in yourself to forgive any angry words and also believe me when I say that your opposite view to my own is important to me, at least. I stayed commenting on this site when I disagreed with the election of Corbyn because I didn't want to become blinkered and partisan in my views and I still try hard to see things from others' points of view, but it's sometimes hard to do. Please don't feel unwelcome because of a few angry words. Many here agree with you and although it's a left wing, rather than a Labour site, I'm pretty certain lots of people appreciate your loyalist Labour views.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:27 pm

Its not as if Trump doesn't have his own negatives re scandal and similar.......

I'm sticking to my long term forecast that Trump 2016 = Goldwater 1964 (though maybe carrying a few more states) But we should remember it was pretty much unremitting misery for LBJ after that - and HRC is similarly likely to spend her time engaged in constant firefighting.

(if there was a credible third party alternative right now a la Perot in 1992, btw, they would stand a fantastic chance)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:28 pm

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:I see that it seems to be that the accusation that I twisted someone's words seems to have been accepted (judging on the likes for the post accusing it)

I do not mind being challenged for my politics or my views but I if people think I twist people's words then I no longer have any credibility

I will no longer post here
Emotions are running very high. The Labour party could very well not survive and this is very upsetting to people who have supported it for so long, so I hope you'll find it in yourself to forgive any angry words and also believe me when I say that your opposite view to my own is important to me, at least. I stayed commenting on this site when I disagreed with the election of Corbyn because I didn't want to become blinkered and partisan in my views and I still try hard to see things from others' points of view, but it's sometimes hard to do. Please don't feel unwelcome because of a few angry words. Many here agree with you and although it's a left wing, rather than a Labour site, I'm pretty certain lots of people appreciate your loyalist Labour views.

It is not any comments from people who I have disagreed with....you are always very pleasant and I understand where you are coming from

I will not, though, be accused of twisting someone's words....repeated twice....which is a conscious act of misrepresentation

There were 'likes' for the post containing the accusation so I cannot remain posting somewhere where I am judged to act like that.....

This is a great board and I wish you all well

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:39 pm

Misrepresentation, misunderstanding ...

In French we have "malentendu" which is literally "mis-hearing" ...

On emotions running high, I was called a "fucking moron" on another site where I'd been posting since 2010 ( I actually quoted something Willow wrote here ) , which pushed me to leave, but it WAS the latest in a number of very personal attacks by the owner of the site .

Not a small spat then .

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:40 pm

I've come bearing baked goods. Maybe a cuppa and scoff together ?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:42 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Temulkar wrote:YOu know in all my days, I don't think I can remember the british getting off their arse to support a politician. Not like this, I don't think it's ever happened before. Rallies accross the country, and then we have the pro eu demo in London.

I hope you're right but we've been here before and these movements have not made much of a dent on the apolitical classes

Poll Tax?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 1:56 pm

frog222 wrote:Misrepresentation, misunderstanding ...

In French we have "malentendu" which is literally "mis-hearing" ...

On emotions running high, I was called a "fucking moron" on another site where I'd been posting since 2010 ( I actually quoted something Willow wrote here ) , which pushed me to leave, but it WAS the latest in a number of very personal attacks by the owner of the site .

Not a small spat then .

Oh dear!
Sounds like a serious divergence of views.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 2:17 pm

Willow904 wrote:
frog222 wrote:Misrepresentation, misunderstanding ...

In French we have "malentendu" which is literally "mis-hearing" ...

On emotions running high, I was called a "fucking moron" on another site where I'd been posting since 2010 ( I actually quoted something Willow wrote here ) , which pushed me to leave, but it WAS the latest in a number of very personal attacks by the owner of the site .

Not a small spat then .
Oh dear!
Sounds like a serious divergence of views.

Willow -- it was just that the most extreme Corbynista could not accept that I reluctantly believed JC to be a definite overall vote-loser in a GE .

I have the youtube link of his post-vote PMQ's at the top of my screen, but can hardly find the courage to check it again .

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 3:40 pm

Please - let's not argue.

We have more similarities than differences.

Please. We've been here before, and lost good people as a result.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:05 pm

Fucking hell, now Caroline Aherne's died.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:08 pm

ephemerid wrote:Please - let's not argue.

We have more similarities than differences.

Please. We've been here before, and lost good people as a result.

I'm sorry for causing discord here I really am, but I cannot sit back and let someone twist my words in such way to make it seem that I called for violence on our streets. As many may recall I'm dyslexic so often struggle to be as articulate as some here. Hence I keep my posts short and to the point without too much padding.
I see now I should not have returned here, it was my sense of loss after the EU Ref that made me look for companionship, but I'm obviously a fish out of water who can't communicate.
I'll retire again and leave you all to it.
With all best wishes I'll say goodbye

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:10 pm

danesclose wrote:Fucking hell, now Caroline Aherne's died.

Aged 52, FFS. 2016 is turning into one hell of a year, emphasis on "hell"

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:12 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Please - let's not argue.

We have more similarities than differences.

Please. We've been here before, and lost good people as a result.
I'm sorry for causing discord here I really am, but I cannot sit back and let someone twist my words in such way to make it seem that I called for violence on our streets. As many may recall I'm dyslexic so often struggle to be as articulate as some here. Hence I keep my posts short and to the point without too much padding.
I see now I should not have returned here, it was my sense of loss after the EU Ref that made me look for companionship, but I'm obviously a fish out of water who can't communicate.
I'll retire again and leave you all to it.
With all best wishes I'll say goodbye

Please don't.

And howsilly - you too.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Please - let's not argue.

We have more similarities than differences.

Please. We've been here before, and lost good people as a result.
I'm sorry for causing discord here I really am, but I cannot sit back and let someone twist my words in such way to make it seem that I called for violence on our streets. As many may recall I'm dyslexic so often struggle to be as articulate as some here. Hence I keep my posts short and to the point without too much padding.
I see now I should not have returned here, it was my sense of loss after the EU Ref that made me look for companionship, but I'm obviously a fish out of water who can't communicate.
I'll retire again and leave you all to it.
With all best wishes I'll say goodbye

Hi AAW there's really no need to leave, nor for howsillyofme to. We've learned here to police ourselves passably and perhaps when Anatoly flagged it, both of you could have just let it go.

We'd all love you both to stay. Please do.

Love to you both, Paul x

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 4:42 pm

I am having problems with my computer. Sorry can't respond to PMs.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:03 pm

Windows 10 upgrade to safer version...Don't be tempted. Cocked up computer completely.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:05 pm

danesclose wrote:Fucking hell, now Caroline Aherne's died.

Aw shit. I'd begun to hope that the worst was over, that the past couple of month's calmness on that front meant that the onslaught was over and we would just have the everyday man-made utter disasters to deal with, but obviously I was too optimistic.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:06 pm

Telling me battery not compatable. And it's working perfectly Wont let me get to repair. Keeps cutting out. Bloody thing!!!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:06 pm

Blimey.

Novak Djokovic knocked out.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:15 pm

I had some ding dongs with Temulkar in the past, some sweary ones at times of high tension. We've learned to co-exist, so I hope others can.

I really appreciate the different views at the moment. When things are so tense and unsettled umbrage will be taken/given. As a psychologist I read said about people who were still married after many years, it wasn't that they didn't argue but that they learnt to work through their disagreements.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:28 pm

SamFreedman@
Apparently whinging about banana regs for 41 years is entirely reasonable but being concerned about the economy tanking makes you a sore loser.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:33 pm

For what it's worth:-
(actually for AngryAsWell & HowSillyOfMe1,
don't think ftn has a ForWhatItsWorth)

AngryAsWell,
Your communication is fine, clear
and greatly valued.
I read your initial post as you intended it.

HowSillyOfMe,
I thanked AngryAsWells post,
for clarifying what he meant, and in agreement that his words had been taken the wrong way.
In hindsight i realise this was taking sides, so wish to apologise.
I don't believe your intention was to 'twist words' on this occasion, or that you'd ever set out to do so.

Both of your contributions would be greatly missed,
and I hope you both reconsider.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:37 pm

We're going through that norming storming performing thing again, we've had a lot more posters and returnees so it isn't unusual to experience some aggro.

I hoping people don't leave permanently.
Am off now to cook. See you all tomorrow.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:55 pm

ephemerid wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Please - let's not argue.

We have more similarities than differences.

Please. We've been here before, and lost good people as a result.
I'm sorry for causing discord here I really am, but I cannot sit back and let someone twist my words in such way to make it seem that I called for violence on our streets. As many may recall I'm dyslexic so often struggle to be as articulate as some here. Hence I keep my posts short and to the point without too much padding.
I see now I should not have returned here, it was my sense of loss after the EU Ref that made me look for companionship, but I'm obviously a fish out of water who can't communicate.
I'll retire again and leave you all to it.
With all best wishes I'll say goodbye
Please don't.

And howsilly - you too.

Hear, hear!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 5:58 pm

yahyah wrote:We're going through that norming storming performing thing again, we've had a lot more posters and returnees so it isn't unusual to experience some aggro.

I hoping people don't leave permanently.
Am off now to cook. See you all tomorrow.

Have a good night, yahyah!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:13 pm

citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:We're going through that norming storming performing thing again, we've had a lot more posters and returnees so it isn't unusual to experience some aggro.

I hoping people don't leave permanently.
Am off now to cook. See you all tomorrow.
Have a good night, yahyah!

I'm not storming I'm sadly recognising I don't have the communication skills required for this type of forum. So in order to avoid any misunderstanding I'll simply not post here again, there is no angry walk out, just an acceptance of fact.
I'll pop in and read and in my heart wish well to those with health problems, difficulties or personal losses.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:We're going through that norming storming performing thing again, we've had a lot more posters and returnees so it isn't unusual to experience some aggro.

I hoping people don't leave permanently.
Am off now to cook. See you all tomorrow.
Have a good night, yahyah!
I'm not storming I'm sadly recognising I don't have the communication skills required for this type of forum. So in order to avoid any misunderstanding I'll simply not post here again, there is no angry walk out, just an acceptance of fact.
I'll pop in and read and in my heart wish well to those with health problems, difficulties or personal losses.

'Storming' isn't a criticism of you AngryAsWell.

I'm showing my age, but it was a management training thing from many years ago.
About how groups come together, experience conflict and then establish norms and then work as a team. The Storming refers to what comes after Forming of the group, then comes Norming, then Performing. We all take part in the stages. It wasn't an insult aimed at you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%2 ... evelopment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:33 pm

Oh dear, what are trying to blame Corbyn for now ?

Victoria McDonald@
My exchange with Corbyn at 5.15pm on @Channel Four News.
He was angry but contrary to reports I did not feel 'lunged at'

Post by **refitman** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:47 pm

yahyah wrote:Oh dear, what are trying to blame Corbyn for now ?

Victoria McDonald@
My exchange with Corbyn at 5.15pm on @Channel Four News.
He was angry but contrary to reports I did not feel 'lunged at'

I think they reported it on the Graun live coverage: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... b1280f3121" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:53 pm

: CmXNvm1XEAQxay9.jpg (63.85 KiB) Viewed 8999 times

voting is compulsory in AU.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 6:53 pm

yahyah wrote:Oh dear, what are trying to blame Corbyn for now ?

Victoria McDonald@
My exchange with Corbyn at 5.15pm on @Channel Four News.
He was angry but contrary to reports I did not feel 'lunged at'

Its in response to claims that he tried to attack her - which led to at least one Blairite on Twitter demanding he should "be sectioned". Classy.

Kudos to her for putting the record straight.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 7:00 pm

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-07- ... xit-march/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
London demo from above

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 7:23 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 15316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Academic: Leave campaign criminally irresponsible

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour Shadow Chancellor: “The people have spoken and their decision must be respected,”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 7:29 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ne ... cy-8334070" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Should the selection of the England football squad be subject to a vote of English fans? Should big decisions by the managing director of a company be put to a democratic vote of the workforce?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 7:39 pm

Seeing as we need some cheering up, I thought it might be a good time to play this game again:

http://games.usvsth3m.com/slap-michael-gove/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 7:54 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ne ... cy-8334070?
Should the selection of the England football squad be subject to a vote of English fans? Should big decisions by the managing director of a company be put to a democratic vote of the workforce?

Only If they're willing to pay £3

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:09 pm

The National Farmers Union (NFU) has called an extraordinary meeting for tomorrow to discuss the changes that will come about from leaving the EU.
http://www.kidderminstershuttle.co.uk/n ... 4593309.-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mr Powles believes food prices in the UK will go up while the consequences of possible farm closures will lead to diminishing food stocks in Britain and a reliance on imports.

Pity they didn't think about any of this a bit sooner

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:13 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ne ... cy-8334070?
Should the selection of the England football squad be subject to a vote of English fans? Should big decisions by the managing director of a company be put to a democratic vote of the workforce?

Answers 'no' and 'no'. Answer to implied question is less clear cut: the democratic vote is still of the uninformed, but the outcome directly affects them and it is far harder in a seemingly democratic organisation like a country (the analogy breaks down over the fact that neither the England football squad nor the company are democratic organisations) to deny people a say in such basic things.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:17 pm

As the Prime Minister – for another 10 weeks anyway – flew back to Britain and reflected on an extraordinary week, I am told that he doesn’t regret his decision to hold the referendum. It was right in democratic principle, he says.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 15816.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:19 pm

1.00 EUR = 0.839441 GBP
Euro ↔ British Pound
1 EUR = 0.839441 GBP

Mid-market rates: 2016-07-02 19:17 UTC

http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/con ... EUR&To=GBP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yikes.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:23 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/ ... nt-you-out" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I sometimes think – and am not alone in thinking – that we are turning the clock back and have been doing so for some time, that everywhere in Europe and the United States, and in Russia, indeed worldwide, people are busily turning clocks back. They think they are returning to a golden age when everything was better. The trouble is the clock says 1931, maybe even 1932.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:31 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:As the Prime Minister – for another 10 weeks anyway – flew back to Britain and reflected on an extraordinary week, I am told that he doesn’t regret his decision to hold the referendum. It was right in democratic principle, he says.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 15816.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course he doesn't regret it. Anything a fat aristocratic tosser does is correct, by virtue of his being a fat aristocratic tosser.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:33 pm

In reply to RS above - yes there have been a few MPs/MEPs who have said parliament should effectively ignore the Brexit vote (David Lammy maybe being the most prominent)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:33 pm

Michael Crick ✔ @MichaelLCrick
If May gets good majority among Tory MPs, but a Brexiter wins party members, Tories could end up in very similar mess to Labour
3:27 PM - 2 Jul 2016

I feel like this should make me happy but somehow it doesn't

And a Polish work colleague of my husband has already put their house on the market.

I don't know how David Cameron can sleep at night with the damage he's done to this country and the needless upheaval he's caused to ordinary people's lives.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:34 pm

This is one of the best pieces I've read this week about the obviously-entirely-coincidental-and-not-at-all-foreseeable rise in racism post-Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/b ... in-racism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:35 pm

I've been listening to US economist, Richard Wolff, with my spouse.
I respect the work of few US political or economic commentators, Wolff is one.
I recommend his recent talk about Brexit linked below.

Global Capitalism: Monthly Economic Update JUNE 2016
by Democracy At Work
Global Capitalism: Monthly Economic Update June 2016
“The Costs of Capitalist Decline in North America and Europe”
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:46 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:In reply to RS above - yes there have been a few MPs/MEPs who have said parliament should effectively ignore the Brexit vote (David Lammy maybe being the most prominent)

On order to do this they would need to analyse all of the various claims and counter-claims made during the campaign...and then conclude that the whole process was so flawed that the result is impossible to rely on to invoke Article 50.

That might also severely embarrass a few politicians which would be an excellent move.

In fact, Leave can't possibly object since their whole point was that parliament is sovereign. Well then here's their chance to prove it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:53 pm

The Canary ‏@TheCanarySays 1h1 hour ago

READERS: We have a major exclusive by @NafeezAhmed landing tomorrow morning which blows the lid off the #LabourCoup.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 02 Jul, 2016 8:56 pm

Erm...this is a bit strange. *tin foil hats on*

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/749255548344885248

WikiLeaksVerified account
‏@wikileaks
Ruth Smeeth, Labour MP that attacked #Corbyn, listed as "strictly protect" US informant https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09LO ... #efmB1ZB_h …