Monday 11th July 2016

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:32 pm

One thought I just had about Teresa May being PM - she doesn't go in for the same type of sneering or bullshit that Cameron does...which may well leave the political journalists who like that kind of thing at PMQs a bit disappointed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:35 pm

Sorry about the double post. It was shock at some of the names being bandied around.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:36 pm

Has anyone any views on Eagle's pink campaign logo ?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:42 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:
HindleA wrote:Queen abdicates.
Step forward ephie x
On second thoughts you can only step forward if your name is on the ballot.

Stuff and nonsense.

Her Glorious Unserene Majesty Queen Ephie, Empress of Nests, hereby decrees that no ballot is required. I'm in charge, end of.

Oiks, plebs, and stock need not form an orderly queue, they are to form a government with immediate effect. (That's you, that is)

We will now have a party. (No, not that sort, you political nerds)

Lady Ohso is in charge of catering, and is expected to use the kitchen knives to devastating effect if Letbin has the gall to turn up.
We want cake. Lots and lots of cake.
HRH Toby is in charge of the invitations. Lots of diadems and stuff, and nothing - NOTHING - that is in any way pink or has a scrawled "ARRGGHHH" masquerading as a signature.
Lord High Whatnot (can't remember, I'm very old you know) Hindle is fashion consultant by appointment. He will design my jewel encrusted bedsocks and shawl.

All politicians are expected to remain silent, as anything they say will taken down and used in evidence by Her Honour super-citizen JA, who will put them in the stocks if they speak.

Right. Let's get on with it.

Will someone please tell the Civil Service to carry on as usual, please?

Thenk you.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:44 pm

I meant extra dirty dirt

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:44 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:One thought I just had about Teresa May being PM - she doesn't go in for the same type of sneering or bullshit that Cameron does...which may well leave the political journalists who like that kind of thing at PMQs a bit disappointed.
You think? I'd lay money on paeans to statesmanlike May, rising above the cheap theatricals of Punch and Judy politics, while Corbyn, well, he just doesn't have any good zingers to put heart in his backbenchers.

Well maybe - but I remember when there's been a few of those with Cameron and the journos have got bored after a couple of weeks of that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:45 pm

TheBirminghamSix ‏@TheBirmingham6 21m21 minutes ago
Incredible #imwithCorbyn

Well done Twitter!
Angela Eagles Facebook right now.

: CnGNpH3WIAA3xuv.jpg (25.85 KiB) Viewed 6524 times

Silly silly woman. Although perhaps she's experiencing just a fraction of what Corbyn's had to go through.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:49 pm

Caroline Lucas ‏@CarolineLucas 2h2 hours ago

Rising pressure in HoC calling for parliamentary vote *before* #Article50 - outrageous that Govt planning to use Royal Prerogative instead

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:49 pm

Can't remember if I mentioned it, but UKIP Welsh Assembly members nominated Neil Hamilton for...wait for it...the Welsh Assembly Standards Committee. You couldn't make it up.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:54 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: Pretty sure that one of our many onlookers said that she was there on merit...

Well that had the desired effect within minutes - bloody hell does he sit there with this place open all day?

What a loser.

Without historic context that might be misconstrued?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 5:59 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: Pretty sure that one of our many onlookers said that she was there on merit...

Well that had the desired effect within minutes - bloody hell does he sit there with this place open all day?

What a loser.
Without historic context that might be misconstrued?

It was less than a week ago when all of the stuff about Leadsom's CV had already come out. And the "Worst treasury minister ever".

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:01 pm

Owen Smith to run as well

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... leadership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good for them. They will lose but the attempt has to be made.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:02 pm

So where is this wonderful candidate Hugo ? The one we should all vote for, who will be competent and the voters will love ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:05 pm

Kevin SchofieldVerified account
‏@PolhomeEditor

EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow

http://polho.me/2a2J7zv

So it looks as if this is the cowardly rat who's been hiding behind Angela's skirts. I knew there had to be one.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:05 pm

Eagle was very poor today, even the most rabid anti-Corbynite has to admit that.

And the pink branding and logo were both incredibly naff - more smug but utterly clueless "consultants" at work, perchance?

Smith has something about him, and may be smart enough to stay away from the most toxic Blairites.

I could see myself voting for him tbh, despite what RS just said and his faux pas over freedom of movement.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: Well that had the desired effect within minutes - bloody hell does he sit there with this place open all day?

What a loser.
Without historic context that might be misconstrued?
It was less than a week ago when all of the stuff about Leadsom's CV had already come out. And the "Worst treasury minister ever".

Sorry, I'm being unclear.
I meant without knowing about specific onlooker,
it might infer that others sitting all day with ftn open were losers.
(wasn't totally serious)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:08 pm

From a design point of view Eagle's jacket had a salmon pink tone, whereas her logo was pink from the blue spectrum. If you are going to try and do that stuff you have to do it properly or it just looks naff.

Smith sounds good in writing, but his debate performance in Wales was poor.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:09 pm

Nice piece in the Welsh press about the eleven refugees that my county has given homes.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... h-11593610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:09 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One her backers, Heather Wheeler, told Sky News: “it has been the most dreadful few days for Andrea and her family. Nobody should have been put through what she has been put through. She is a bigger person than this.”

So much more dreadful than the years of shit that Brown had to put up with - and yet he still had the decency to hang around and sort at that old global banking crisis thing.

IT MAKES ME SEETHE!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:10 pm

I know about that, and have commented on it myself before. This is a chance for him to show that he can indeed do better.

(reply to yahyah about OS)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:10 pm

yahyah wrote:So where is this wonderful candidate Hugo ? The one we should all vote for, who will be competent and the voters will love ?

Oh either Smith or Eagle is better than Corbyn by far. They won't win a general election, the damage to Labour from the last year is far too great by now to be reversed before a General Election, but they would save it as a viable political party.

They won't win of course. They'll lose. Which will mean we will carry on as we now are, with the 172 on the backbenches, and the Campaign Group and Andy Burnham running the shadow cabinet (until the latter goes to Manchester if he is lucky).

Next year it will be the same again: another challenge.

So it is now a race. Will Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne be able to transform the Labour Parliamentary party (through deselections etc) or will the members finally tire of Corbyn and elect someone from the mainstream of the PLP. He won't last forever.

All that is over is the opening period where the bulk of the PLP tried to make it work. We won't be going back to that ever.

of course, by the Spring May may pull the trigger and call an election, and Labour would be completely crushed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Eagle was very poor today, even the most rabid anti-Corbynite has to admit that.

And the pink branding and logo were both incredibly naff - more smug but utterly clueless "consultants" at work, perchance?

Smith has something about him, and may be smart enough to stay away from the most toxic Blairites.

I could see myself voting for him tbh, despite what RS just said and his faux pas over freedom of movement.

Vote for a snivelling coward who's been hiding behind a womans skirts and has let her take the flak even if she is a silly cow? How could you.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:12 pm

The damage to Labour caused by 'moderates' telling the media Labour are unelectable, and Corbyn useless, will take a long time to mend.

If I shoot myself in the foot, who is to blame ? My foot ?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:13 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Eagle was very poor today, even the most rabid anti-Corbynite has to admit that.

And the pink branding and logo were both incredibly naff - more smug but utterly clueless "consultants" at work, perchance?

Smith has something about him, and may be smart enough to stay away from the most toxic Blairites.

I could see myself voting for him tbh, despite what RS just said and his faux pas over freedom of movement.
Vote for a snivelling coward who's been hiding behind a womans skirts and has let her take the flak even if she is a silly cow? How could you.

I hear what you say, and understand how it could be seen that way.

But I will judge the candidates on their merits.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:13 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30841.html
One her backers, Heather Wheeler, told Sky News: “it has been the most dreadful few days for Andrea and her family. Nobody should have been put through what she has been put through. She is a bigger person than this.”
So much more dreadful than the years of shit that Brown had to put up with - and yet he still had the decency to hang around and sort at that old global banking crisis thing.

IT MAKES ME SEETHE!

Have a

They aren't worth the energy it takes to be angry.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:14 pm

SpinningHugo wrote: of course, by the Spring May may pull the trigger and call an election,

You know every well that this can't happen without assistance from the opposition or unless the FTP Act is repealed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:14 pm

The end of the Labour Party is nigh,I suppose as others have said after electing a leader whose main conviction is that the PLP is the enemy of the working class it was somewhat inevitable,but hey the membership went up.No point in pleading for sense,many ironies,a strike action with overwhelming support blamed on a few initial rabble rousers,condemned,to name the most obvious.You cannot lead without your workforce,by which I mean people that actually have to work with him.I notice the explanations as to why,vary in every increasing levels of delusionary conspiracy theories with so many inherent contradictions your head spins around incessently to the question of "democracy".I am a simple soul whilst others may,as of course they are perfectly entitled to do and it is legitimate consider them,I don't possess the intellect nor knowledge to adequately contemplate,beyond MP's have competing interests to consider,representing constituents as a whole which to them is being elected and getting their party elected to implement their best shot to deliver,I see no betrayal in not exercising that according to the view of a few,beyond the thinking seems to be ,actually I am doing it for you I just consider the particularity of the route different from you.The mutual McCarthyite injunctions,the venom,the total loss of sense but above all sensibilities is truly sad to witness.There will be no recovery.

NHS,Open University and the World's first Minister for the Disabled are my particular top three.

Curtain closes.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:15 pm

HindleA wrote:My overwhelming concern is for Larry the cat.

He is o.k.according to my sources he is to be the new Home Secretary.

which reminds me - did we ever find out how tarquin voted?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:18 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Eagle was very poor today, even the most rabid anti-Corbynite has to admit that.

And the pink branding and logo were both incredibly naff - more smug but utterly clueless "consultants" at work, perchance?

Smith has something about him, and may be smart enough to stay away from the most toxic Blairites.

I could see myself voting for him tbh, despite what RS just said and his faux pas over freedom of movement.
Vote for a snivelling coward who's been hiding behind a womans skirts and has let her take the flak even if she is a silly cow? How could you.
I hear what you say, and understand how it could be seen that way.

But I will judge the candidates on their merits.

Do morals count as merits? They do for me.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:19 pm

That's your script Hindle. Can see why you might feel like that, but there are other ways of viewing the situation.

I'm not, and never have been, a hard leftist. I liked Ed who was hardly red in tooth and claw.
But the way Corbyn has been treated, and the way some of the party have made more effort to destroy him than the Tories is sickening.

If the curtain closes, there will be a lot of people to blame, including some who feel themselves the poor victims of the piece.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:20 pm

HindleA wrote:The end of the Labour Party is nigh,I suppose as others have said after electing a leader whose main conviction is that the PLP is the enemy of the working class it was somewhat inevitable,but hey the membership went up.No point in pleading for sense,many ironies,a strike action with overwhelming support blamed on a few initial rabble rousers,condemned,to name the most obvious.You cannot lead without your workforce,by which I mean people that actually have to work with him.I notice the explanations as to why,vary in every increasing levels of delusionary conspiracy theories with so many inherent contradictions your head spins around incessently to the question of "democracy".I am a simple soul whilst others may,as of course they are perfectly entitled to do and it is legitimate consider them,I don't possess the intellect nor knowledge to adequately contemplate,beyond MP's have competing interests to consider,representing constituents as a whole which to them is being elected and getting their party elected to implement their best shot to deliver,I see no betrayal in not exercising that according to the view of a few,beyond the thinking seems to be ,actually I am doing it for you I just consider the particularity of the route different from you.The mutual McCarthyite injunctions,the venom,the total loss of sense but above all sensibilities is truly sad to witness.There will be no recovery.

NHS,Open University and the World's first Minister for the Disabled are my particular top three.

Curtain closes.

The real point is that the present day PLP seems no better at winning elections, and no more "competent", than Corbyn.

The stench of mediocre time servers with no identifiable beliefs or moral core has become overpowering.

And far, far, FAR too many SPADs and "researchers" and consultants and lobbyists. Parasites, basically.

Whoever wins the leadership, major change there is required.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:22 pm

Talking of parasites, we've not heard much from Simon Danczuk lately.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:23 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: of course, by the Spring May may pull the trigger and call an election,
You know every well that this can't happen without assistance from the opposition or unless the FTP Act is repealed.

of course. Either is easily done. Labour won't oppose, but will support.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:24 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:The end of the Labour Party is nigh,I suppose as others have said after electing a leader whose main conviction is that the PLP is the enemy of the working class it was somewhat inevitable,but hey the membership went up.No point in pleading for sense,many ironies,a strike action with overwhelming support blamed on a few initial rabble rousers,condemned,to name the most obvious.You cannot lead without your workforce,by which I mean people that actually have to work with him.I notice the explanations as to why,vary in every increasing levels of delusionary conspiracy theories with so many inherent contradictions your head spins around incessently to the question of "democracy".I am a simple soul whilst others may,as of course they are perfectly entitled to do and it is legitimate consider them,I don't possess the intellect nor knowledge to adequately contemplate,beyond MP's have competing interests to consider,representing constituents as a whole which to them is being elected and getting their party elected to implement their best shot to deliver,I see no betrayal in not exercising that according to the view of a few,beyond the thinking seems to be ,actually I am doing it for you I just consider the particularity of the route different from you.The mutual McCarthyite injunctions,the venom,the total loss of sense but above all sensibilities is truly sad to witness.There will be no recovery.

NHS,Open University and the World's first Minister for the Disabled are my particular top three.

Curtain closes.
The real point is that the present day PLP seems no better at winning elections, and no more "competent", than Corbyn.

The stench of mediocre time servers with no identifiable beliefs or moral core has become overpowering.

And far, far, FAR too many SPADs and "researchers" and consultants and lobbyists. Parasites, basically.

Whoever wins the leadership, major change there is required.

You mean people with backgrounds like the last Labour leader?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:25 pm

HindleA wrote:The end of the Labour Party is nigh,I suppose as others have said after electing a leader whose main conviction is that the PLP is the enemy of the working class it was somewhat inevitable,but hey the membership went up.No point in pleading for sense,many ironies,a strike action with overwhelming support blamed on a few initial rabble rousers,condemned,to name the most obvious.You cannot lead without your workforce,by which I mean people that actually have to work with him.I notice the explanations as to why,vary in every increasing levels of delusionary conspiracy theories with so many inherent contradictions your head spins around incessently to the question of "democracy".I am a simple soul whilst others may,as of course they are perfectly entitled to do and it is legitimate consider them,I don't possess the intellect nor knowledge to adequately contemplate,beyond MP's have competing interests to consider,representing constituents as a whole which to them is being elected and getting their party elected to implement their best shot to deliver,I see no betrayal in not exercising that according to the view of a few,beyond the thinking seems to be ,actually I am doing it for you I just consider the particularity of the route different from you.The mutual McCarthyite injunctions,the venom,the total loss of sense but above all sensibilities is truly sad to witness.There will be no recovery.

NHS,Open University and the World's first Minister for the Disabled are my particular top three.

Curtain closes.

Yes.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:26 pm

Indeed. And he had the self awareness to realise it was a problem and needed to be dealt with.

The people I am referring to fought him every step of the way on that (as they did on everything else)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:28 pm

We likened Dave to a used car salesman. He will say whatever it takes. I can't see that the ring leaders are any better. I wouldn't buy a car off Dave or them.

It's perhaps a simplistic way to look at people, but don't you think moral integrity is sadly lacking in the people that run our lives?
I might not be able to stop them, but I won't sully my hands supporting them.

My right to vote was won by brave women. It, they, deserves better.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:29 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
yahyah wrote:So where is this wonderful candidate Hugo ? The one we should all vote for, who will be competent and the voters will love ?
Oh either Smith or Eagle is better than Corbyn by far. They won't win a general election, the damage to Labour from the last year is far too great by now to be reversed before a General Election, but they would save it as a viable political party.

They won't win of course. They'll lose. Which will mean we will carry on as we now are, with the 172 on the backbenches, and the Campaign Group and Andy Burnham running the shadow cabinet (until the latter goes to Manchester if he is lucky).

Next year it will be the same again: another challenge.

So it is now a race. Will Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne be able to transform the Labour Parliamentary party (through deselections etc) or will the members finally tire of Corbyn and elect someone from the mainstream of the PLP. He won't last forever.

All that is over is the opening period where the bulk of the PLP tried to make it work. We won't be going back to that ever.

of course, by the Spring May may pull the trigger and call an election, and Labour would be completely crushed.

If May wants to crush Labour she calls an October/September election, by next year serious brexit chickens will have come home to roost and a GE win against a unified corbyn party is no dead cert then.

As for Labour, one of the reasons that the plotters launched this week is the NEC ballot papers went out today, and given the membership it is likely that the NEC will be solidly to the left soon. A landslide win for Corbyn in the leadership election will see most of the 172 crack and come online - second mandate, must respect the members etc etc etc - about 25-30 will either take the SDP2 route when faced with reselection or will try and wreak havoc from the backbenches in order to fullfill their own prophecies of doom. To be honest know-nothing gobshites like Jamie Reed have egos so brobdignagian in stature I doubt he will be able to bear being in a left wing labour. There are a few others who will follow, I can only hope Kinnock minor will be one.

Ultimately the only way to unify labour is for one or other of the extreme wings to split, it is not going to be the corbyn left that goes, as thats the members, the CLP's the activists etc. So the New Democrats or whatever they call themselves will stand next May and get mullered in the polls.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed. And he had the self awareness to realise it was a problem and needed to be dealt with.

The people I am referring to fought him every step of the way on that (as they did on everything else)

You do love to refight yesterday's battles. The Blairites lost. Numerically, they are a tiny group, It really isn't relevant to today.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:33 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Vote for a snivelling coward who's been hiding behind a womans skirts and has let her take the flak even if she is a silly cow? How could you.
I hear what you say, and understand how it could be seen that way.

But I will judge the candidates on their merits.

I will judge the candidates on their qualities. Good and bad. Not impressed with Smith today. Tweeting his 'when did you stop beating your wife?' question to Corbyn was not a good look

I suppose that is his "justification" for standing. Let's now see where he goes with it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:34 pm

John Lister
‏@johnlister

@DavidAllenGreen If Article 50 isn't triggered by May 2017, what happens when the May 2019 Euro elections come?

The answer from DAG was "who knows".

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:40 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
HindleA wrote:The end of the Labour Party is nigh,I suppose as others have said after electing a leader whose main conviction is that the PLP is the enemy of the working class
I find that insulting. You lost me right there.

Might I remind you that Corbyn did not declare war on the PLP.

Yes,sorry Hindle,but that is simply untrue.A lie,really.
Corbyn offered them shadow cabinet positions from the beginning.Instead of supporting the new leader they (very publicly)turned their backs on him and have been bitching and plotting to unseat Corbyn ever since.
He has tried to include them all,and ,despite the venom that they have spouted since last September,Corbyn has remained calm and dignified.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:44 pm

Breaking news: David Cameron will not leave Downing Street. I kid you not. He has a cat.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:45 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed. And he had the self awareness to realise it was a problem and needed to be dealt with.

The people I am referring to fought him every step of the way on that (as they did on everything else)
You do love to refight yesterday's battles. The Blairites lost. Numerically, they are a tiny group, It really isn't relevant to today.

They are disproportionately influential, though - and still more in the media of course.

And alas its not "yesterday's battles" as much as we might wish - the utterly appalling behaviour behaviour of some towards Ed is a major reason why we have Corbyn now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:51 pm

David Schneider ‏@davidschneider 5h5 hours ago

Want to congratulate Theresa May? Simply send an email to, well, anyone really. She’ll see it. #SnoopersCharter

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:51 pm

"Rumours that the removal vans are arriving a day late at 10 Downing Street due to a mix up with Theresa's calendar are completely unfounded, claims the cat."

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:52 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
yahyah wrote:So where is this wonderful candidate Hugo ? The one we should all vote for, who will be competent and the voters will love ?
Oh either Smith or Eagle is better than Corbyn by far. They won't win a general election, the damage to Labour from the last year is far too great by now to be reversed before a General Election, but they would save it as a viable political party.

They won't win of course. They'll lose. Which will mean we will carry on as we now are, with the 172 on the backbenches, and the Campaign Group and Andy Burnham running the shadow cabinet (until the latter goes to Manchester if he is lucky).

Next year it will be the same again: another challenge.

So it is now a race. Will Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne be able to transform the Labour Parliamentary party (through deselections etc) or will the members finally tire of Corbyn and elect someone from the mainstream of the PLP. He won't last forever.

All that is over is the opening period where the bulk of the PLP tried to make it work. We won't be going back to that ever.

of course, by the Spring May may pull the trigger and call an election, and Labour would be completely crushed.
If May wants to crush Labour she calls an October/September election, by next year serious brexit chickens will have come home to roost and a GE win against a unified corbyn party is no dead cert then.

As for Labour, one of the reasons that the plotters launched this week is the NEC ballot papers went out today, and given the membership it is likely that the NEC will be solidly to the left soon. A landslide win for Corbyn in the leadership election will see most of the 172 crack and come online - second mandate, must respect the members etc etc etc - about 25-30 will either take the SDP2 route when faced with reselection or will try and wreak havoc from the backbenches in order to fullfill their own prophecies of doom. To be honest know-nothing gobshites like Jamie Reed have egos so brobdignagian in stature I doubt he will be able to bear being in a left wing labour. There are a few others who will follow, I can only hope Kinnock minor will be one.

Ultimately the only way to unify labour is for one or other of the extreme wings to split, it is not going to be the corbyn left that goes, as thats the members, the CLP's the activists etc. So the New Democrats or whatever they call themselves will stand next May and get mullered in the polls.

Have you joined the LP yet Tem?
Come on,just for the leadership elections.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:54 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed. And he had the self awareness to realise it was a problem and needed to be dealt with.

The people I am referring to fought him every step of the way on that (as they did on everything else)
You do love to refight yesterday's battles. The Blairites lost. Numerically, they are a tiny group, It really isn't relevant to today.
They are disproportionately influential, though - and still more in the media of course.

And alas its not "yesterday's battles" as much as we might wish - the utterly appalling behaviour behaviour of some towards Ed is a major reason why we have Corbyn now.

They aren't influential in the party at all. The reason the likes of, say, Kendall or Hunt or Umunna get media attention is because they're competent on tv. Lots aren't.

And arguing about how Corbyn came about is yesterday's battle again. You're looking back not forward all the time.

David Miliband really really is not coming back.

Neither Liz Kendall nor anyone like her is going to lead the Labour party.

Worrying about the trivial past while the party dies in front if you is silly.

Added

And being blunt the reason you do that is it is the easy option.

The current problems the Labour party faces are almost nothing to do with say Tristram Hunt, Attacking the (defeated irrelevant) Blairites means you won't get into any difficult confrontation. Everyone here for example (possibly saving me) agrees. But you think Corbyn needs to go as do I.* That* is the live issue,

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 6:57 pm

yahyah wrote:The damage to Labour caused by 'moderates' telling the media Labour are unelectable, and Corbyn useless, will take a long time to mend.

If I shoot myself in the foot, who is to blame ? My foot ?

It's far worse than that. The person who just shot you in your foot is standing there telling you it's your fault that they pulled the trigger.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 7:02 pm

I would much rather watch Mrs May doing her Thatcher impersonation than Camerons' smug,sneering,born to rule fat face any day.