Monday 18th July 2016

Post by **refitman** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:05 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:16 am

Murph loses patience

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016 ... economics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:21 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Murph loses patience

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016 ... economics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Morning. It's a shame he's not standing for leader!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:32 am

Competence

m.facebook.com/thangam.debbonaire/posts/10157204442320083

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:43 am

Good morning.

1. Thank you to lovely Paul and Refitman for the work they do running this site for us all.
2. I have never reported a post here since the forum was founded, and didn't do so yesterday.
3. I made a comment in response to jonny, have misread nothing, and I'm not "worked up".
4. I am a she, not a he. As most people are aware.

Thank you.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 7:55 am

I'm not sure what the post that was removed said, but I find sweary references to Labour people not helpful and maybe they should be removed too ?

Also, at a time when 'Corbynistas' are being accused of thuggery (without evidence in most cases) and lack of decorum, it may be best not to fuel criticism by Corbyn's critics and give them what they could cite as evidence of lack of proper political debate.
FTN is viewed by non members, and comments mentioned on Twitter by some who are not friends of the site.

Sorry if that sounds humbuggy.
Am just finding the whole thing a nightmare.
I wanted people to back past Labour leaders, and have complained about the way some MPs worked to bring down Brown, Ed and now Corbyn.

But if Smith gets voted leader, with a membership mandate, wouldn't it be wrong to poison social media and voters minds against him ?
That would be hypocritical imho and as counter productive for Labour's electoral success as the attacks on Ed & Corbyn have been.

Corbyn does not support the politics of personal attack.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:04 am

Also, re use of Brexit.
I didn't like it to start with, but it is a quick reference that requires a lot less typing than the full description. British exit, not that childish, just words abbreviated and stuck together.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:09 am

Financial Times ''Brexit worse than 2008 for finance chiefs, study finds''

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f28ba63a-4c0d ... z4Ek33ammS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:17 am

yahyah wrote:Also, re use of Brexit.
I didn't like it to start with, but it is a quick reference that requires a lot less typing than the full description. British exit, not that childish, just words abbreviated and stuck together.

Glad you've relaxed stance since yesterday, how do you feel about 'Bremain'?

(I'd come around to accepting 'Brexit' as a useful term, whilst rejecting it as a concept,
but find myself unable to accept 'Bremain', although in favour of staying in EU.)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:18 am

ephemerid wrote:Good morning.

1. Thank you to lovely Paul and Refitman for the work they do running this site for us all.
2. I have never reported a post here since the forum was founded, and didn't do so yesterday.
3. I made a comment in response to jonny, have misread nothing, and I'm not "worked up".
4. I am a she, not a he. As most people are aware.

Thank you.

Morning ephemerid yes for clarity it was another member, not ephemerid, who flagged a post yesterday. This happens very rarely and so as an untrained, volunteer admin I responded to it.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:21 am

On free votes

http://revolts.co.uk/?p=919" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:25 am

yahyah thanks for making the point about FTN being viewed by non-members. For me this is key. When we discussed all this years ago, we agreed we should be a public forum.

That led to the "crowded room" point in the header atop this page. There maybe somebody standing behind us that may be deeply offended, slandered or ready to sue us for misusing their intellectual property.

The deleted comment had offended someone here. That means it could well have offended other readers. It seemed safest to remove it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:34 am

Changing subject a little, was there any more news on Angela Eagle's office?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:38 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=943&hilit=Refitman& ... 50#p119115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plenty more in same vein of course. See also the thanks.

In the traditional way, I of course regret any distress you may have been caused.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:38 am

I read somewhere that the brick went through a window onto a shared stairwell, possibly facing into a ginnell [think that's the right word, a small alley], not a window of Eagle's office per se, and that the building is shared by more than half a dozen organisations. It is an area where petty vandalism is commonplace.

So, there is still not actually any evidence it was directed at Eagle, her office, or was politically motivated is there ? Also interesting that a lot of the people who said we should not rush to judgement about the motives of Jo Cox's killer have...err...rushed to judgement that it is a Corbynite 'thug' responsible.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:56 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... paign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Boris hits Brussels! New Foreign Secretary urges EU counterparts to respect the 'will of the people' on Brexit as he holds first talks

We have to keep up public demonstrations against [the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union following the refererendum of June 23 2016 on said matter] if only to counter this notion, internationally, that this stupid provincial, isolationist, xenophobic act of self harm actually reflects the people of said "United" Kingdom. It is the will of a mixed set of hedge funds, sociopathic billionaires, racists, bigots and people who thought about the consequences of their vote so hard that they voted thinking a) Cornwall would continue to get as much money as it had b) they could vote to go back in again next year etc etc.

A majority collectively, but not in practice representing any given majority of "Brits".

[understand Northern Irish aren't Brits, but that this is a vernacular term used more broadly than political accuracy allows]

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 8:57 am

yahyah wrote:I read somewhere that the brick went through a window onto a shared stairwell, possibly facing into a ginnell [think that's the right word, a small alley], not a window of Eagle's office per se, and that the building is shared by more than half a dozen organisations. It is an area where petty vandalism is commonplace.

So, there is still not actually any evidence it was directed at Eagle, her office, or was politically motivated is there ? Also interesting that a lot of the people who said we should not rush to judgement about the motives of Jo Cox's killer have...err...rushed to judgement that it is a Corbynite 'thug' responsible.

I read somewhere yesterday that locals complained about a fight or similar fracas in the street in the early hours.
If I can find the reference, I'll post it here.
Also, someone here (I think it was Rebecca, apologies if I'm mistaken) pointed out that there more than 4,000 incidents of vandalism/ASB in that postcode annually according to local police.
I'm inclined to think that this was a random act of vandalism in a place where a dozen such incidents occur daily.

The insistence that Eagle's office was targeted by thugs from Momentum, and the extrapolation by certain media outlets and individuals that bricks (plural) were thrown and this is anti-Eagle, anti-LGBT, anti-whatever, is just adding to the nastiness.
You're quite right to point out the dissonance in the rush to judgement - but it suits the prevailing agenda, doesn't it?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:01 am

Britain will not be 'abandoning' its 'leading role' in Europe, despite leaving the EU, insists Boris Johnson as he arrives in Brussels

Course it won't.

Another Boris special, this time from the Telegraph.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:03 am

SpinningHugo wrote:viewtopic.php?f=4&t=943&hilit=Refitman& ... 50#p119115

Plenty more in same vein of course. See also the thanks.

In the traditional way, I of course regret any distress you may have been caused.

If you wish to report a post please use the red ! button and Refitman and/or myself will respond as best we can. Thanks.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:04 am

If I remember rightly, the first big bust up we had on FTN was when someone flamed in with an anti-Ed Miliband rant, something about ''****ing Miliband'' or ''Miliband's ****ing expensive suit''.

He got short shrift from me, and other Ed supporters, and it all got a bit nasty.
Lots of flouncing followed, and blame levelled at the Ed supporters for complaining and responding.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:04 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning ephemerid yes for clarity it was another member, not ephemerid, who flagged a post yesterday. This happens very rarely and so as an untrained, volunteer admin I responded to it.

Thank you, Paul.

"As an untrained VOLUNTEER admin...."

That's the thing - you and Refitman are running this site on goodwill and on an entirely altruistic basis. I am grateful for it.
(If I've missed anyone out who also volunteers to keep this forum going, I apologise)

That's why this place is so important to me, and one of the reasons why I stay. I don't think I'm alone in that.

So thank you both.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:06 am

Second that Ephie.

It is very much appreciated.

minch · Post by **minch** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:08 am

ephemerid wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning ephemerid yes for clarity it was another member, not ephemerid, who flagged a post yesterday. This happens very rarely and so as an untrained, volunteer admin I responded to it.
Thank you, Paul.

"As an untrained VOLUNTEER admin...."

That's the thing - you and Refitman are running this site on goodwill and on an entirely altruistic basis. I am grateful for it.
(If I've missed anyone out who also volunteers to keep this forum going, I apologise)

That's why this place is so important to me, and one of the reasons why I stay. I don't think I'm alone in that.

So thank you both.

Seconded (again) or is that thirded

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:10 am

Fourthed.

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:20 am

Paul Lewis
"DWP confirms 0905 that it does not know who is to be Pensions Minister. It will be up to Secof State Damian Green who takes which brief."

Mordaunt/Hinds -guess

Also not confirmed

Disabled-Caroline Nokes/Richard Harrington

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 9:31 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:viewtopic.php?f=4&t=943&hilit=Refitman& ... 50#p119115

Plenty more in same vein of course. See also the thanks.

In the traditional way, I of course regret any distress you may have been caused.
If you wish to report a post please use the red ! button and Refitman and/or myself will respond as best we can. Thanks.

No. I am very keen that you don't edit stuff like that in any way.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:16 am

yahyah wrote:I read somewhere that the brick went through a window onto a shared stairwell, possibly facing into a ginnell [think that's the right word, a small alley], not a window of Eagle's office per se, and that the building is shared by more than half a dozen organisations. It is an area where petty vandalism is commonplace.

So, there is still not actually any evidence it was directed at Eagle, her office, or was politically motivated is there ? Also interesting that a lot of the people who said we should not rush to judgement about the motives of Jo Cox's killer have...err...rushed to judgement that it is a Corbynite 'thug' responsible.

Luciana Berger MP was recently subjected to horrific anti-semitic abuse - many jumped to the conclusion that "Corbynistas" were responsible.

Somebody has now been arrested and charged over this - they are a known far-right activist.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:25 am

HindleA wrote:Paul Lewis
"DWP confirms 0905 that it does not know who is to be Pensions Minister. It will be up to Secof State Damian Green who takes which brief."

Mordaunt/Hinds -guess

Also not confirmed

Disabled-Caroline Nokes/Richard Harrington

Scary.

Not knowing anything about Nokes or Harrington, I had a little look on theyworkforyou.

Mordaunt, Hinds, Harrington and Nokes - voted for: bedroom tax; reduction in spending on benefits; against: higher benefits for long-term illness/disability; creating guaranteed jobs for long-term young unemployed people, and raising benefits in line with prices.

Tories. They are all the same.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:34 am

And if we are going to - absolutely rightly - pick up the frequent distortions (if not worse) and misquoting of Corbyn, then it applies to other people too.

Much glee in some quarters yesterday that Owen Smith supposedly said he was "pro austerity". Of course anybody who saw him on the Marr programme will know that he basically said the opposite - the remark being quoted was a simple (and obvious) slip of the tongue.

Fair play on all sides, please

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:36 am

Lord Freud

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... e-and-work" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reforming welfare and work

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:40 am

HindleA wrote:Lord Freud

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... e-and-work" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reforming welfare and work

Does he really believe that pile of crap.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:41 am

"Universal Credit's progress examined"

PAC Wednesday 14.30

Devereux,Couling,Biffo The Bear.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:50 am

Not had a chance to check yet.

Kinnock Jnr. Is reported to be negotiating with Labour backers to fund a new party

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:51 am

bill

#Theresa May sacks Anna Sourarse presumably for being a challenger for the 2017 Most Demonic Smile Award.

@kingbill73 if not already following.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:52 am

Today John McDonnell plans to reveal his plans for a "Bank of the North" as part of a £500bn post-Brexit investment package.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:58 am

IT is more than 30 years since former Labour leader Neil Kinnock began his attack on Militant – as a left wing ‘Party within a Party’ seeking to undermine core Labour values.

https://seagullnic.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... -militant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 10:59 am

ohsocynical wrote:Not had a chance to check yet.

Kinnock Jnr. Is reported to be negotiating with Labour backers to fund a new party

He is a real snake in the grass and make no mistake.

I can't believe that his dad is totally happy with him, however much NK is also anti-Corbyn.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:00 am

ohsocynical wrote:Not had a chance to check yet.

Kinnock Jnr. Is reported to be negotiating with Labour backers to fund a new party

Reported where?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:00 am

‎Jilly Teresa Chapman‎ to Corbyn 50yrs+ Supporters Group
Yesterday at 8:57am ·
Approx a week ago I was listening to Lbc and Paddy Ashdown was being interviewed. He made a rather odd announcement stating that he was coming back and would announce his plans at a later day but suffice it to say that he was looking at changing politics and looking to form a movement! Interesting?
This morning I was listening to labour MP who stated that there were rumours going around that approx 150 Labour Party MP's were talking about a split led by Paddy Ashdown! The plot thickens! They. Even have a name: continuity Labour Party!

Another one I haven't had a chance to check yet. Anyone?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:07 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Not had a chance to check yet.

Kinnock Jnr. Is reported to be negotiating with Labour backers to fund a new party
He is a real snake in the grass and make no mistake.

I can't believe that his dad is totally happy with him, however much NK is also anti-Corbyn.

Ah, I see, it is reported in the Mail

Here is Stephen Kinnock's response.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:08 am

What’s going on in the Labour Party, and what does it mean?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:15 am

My comments stand - he is not to be trusted.

Re the above comment by ohso - starting a "movement" is not the same as setting up another political party. The two shouldn't be conflated as they often are.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:17 am

Continuity Labour is an anagram of 'Unity Out Blair Con'

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:20 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:My comments stand - he is not to be trusted.

Re the above comment by ohso - starting a "movement" is not the same as setting up another political party. The two shouldn't be conflated as they often are.

I did say I hadn't checked or verified it...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:22 am

Party caught up in new round of infighting with war of words between camps of Angela Eagle and Owen Smith

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nti-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:25 am

Good-morning, everyone.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:27 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Continuity Labour is an anagram of 'Unity Out Blair Con'

Boo! I, nutty liar, con.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:46 am

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... tICv2dc.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:51 am

Not much to say other than Bell's depiction of May in today's If... is priceless.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 18 Jul, 2016 11:57 am

SpinningHugo wrote:http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... tICv2dc.99

Third Place Kez should spend some time looking at SLab's own failings first, tbh.