Wednesday 3rd August 2016

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:27 pm

Bit less coin, I presume.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:31 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Pu ... s-spending

DWP trialling use of blockchain to track benefit recipients’ spending
New data sharing technology could be used by the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) to track benefits’ recipients spending, Socitm has said, depending on the outcome of a new pilot.
In a new briefing on blockchain, a data-sharing system first used in the Bitcoin online currency, Socitm, the representative organisation for local authority IT leaders, says that it is already being used by organisations without public access.
It says that the DWP is part of a consortium piloting a system that tracks benefits claimants’ receipts and spending patterns in order to subsequently offer financial management advice to those who would benefit from it, in what Socitm calls “a not uncontroversial move”.

I don't like the sound of that at all.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:34 pm

James O'Brien been on twitter on how much Trump reminds him of the Biff character from Back To The Future.

I've thought it too, for ages, then someone posted this on his timeline.

Back to the Future writer: bad guy Biff was based on Donald Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/o ... nald-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:35 pm

The DWP being involved in financial advice,might not be a bad idea,here is a few billion,just say it will say it will save more sometime in the future.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:36 pm

Ha ha

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:38 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Pu ... s-spending

DWP trialling use of blockchain to track benefit recipients’ spending
New data sharing technology could be used by the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) to track benefits’ recipients spending, Socitm has said, depending on the outcome of a new pilot.
In a new briefing on blockchain, a data-sharing system first used in the Bitcoin online currency, Socitm, the representative organisation for local authority IT leaders, says that it is already being used by organisations without public access.
It says that the DWP is part of a consortium piloting a system that tracks benefits claimants’ receipts and spending patterns in order to subsequently offer financial management advice to those who would benefit from it, in what Socitm calls “a not uncontroversial move”.
I don't like the sound of that at all.

I actually don't understand it. How can anyone check what you spend using cash (for insistence). ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:39 pm

Some of the definitions of cult behaviour are interesting

The leader is always right.
No tolerance for questions or critical enquiry
Unreasonable fear of conspiracies and persecution
Former followers are always ''wrong''
Obsessiveness about the leader
Whenever the leader is criticised it is characterised as persecution
Hyperactivity centred on the leader
A loss of a sense of humour
Increasing detachment from old friends unless they show an interest in the leader

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:41 pm

Here's the Radio 4 programme about blockchain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b066wfp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still don't get it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:45 pm

Proposals by Companies House to delete more than 2.5m public records and destroy the virtual history of defunct business would
damage the fight against corruption, Tom Watson has said in a letter to the prime minister.

The deputy Labour leader has written to Theresa May following reports that the corporate registration agency is planning to erase
vast amounts of public data, claiming the move would make a mockery of her pledge to tackle corporate irresponsibility and hinder
businesses, journalists and the police in their efforts.

The government agency maintains a database on all UK-incorporated firms, listing their accounts and all directors and shareholders.
But proposals are being considered to reduce the amount of time the records of dissolved companies are retained – from 20 years
to six – raising fears it will hamper investigations into white collar criminals and money laundering.

- Labour urges PM to drop plans to delete company records

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... se-records" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory government still working on Tory goals.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:46 pm

Thanks yahyah

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:47 pm

If you can work it out, please let me know and tell me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:51 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Pu ... s-spending

DWP trialling use of blockchain to track benefit recipients’ spending
New data sharing technology could be used by the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) to track benefits’ recipients spending, Socitm has said, depending on the outcome of a new pilot.
In a new briefing on blockchain, a data-sharing system first used in the Bitcoin online currency, Socitm, the representative organisation for local authority IT leaders, says that it is already being used by organisations without public access.
It says that the DWP is part of a consortium piloting a system that tracks benefits claimants’ receipts and spending patterns in order to subsequently offer financial management advice to those who would benefit from it, in what Socitm calls “a not uncontroversial move”.
I don't like the sound of that at all.
I actually don't understand it. How can anyone check what you spend using cash (for insistence). ?

It doesn't sound as though cash is involved.

"Public sector organisations can also now buy blockchain services for the first time through the government’s Digital Marketplace.

The G-Cloud 8 framework, which provides the latest list of companies which can sell their services, includes Credits, a financial
technology start-up which provides a distributed ledger platform on which other organisations can build apps.

A distributed ledger is an asset database that can be shared across several networks, sites or institutions. All participants have
their own copy of the ledger and changes made in one site are reflected across all copies."

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:54 pm

citizenJA wrote:Usually I can sort it out. Just now I'm having trouble keeping up with it all. Thank you for clarifying information for me above.
In another post, you wisely suggested waiting for more information because we may not have access to the facts yet.

No problem, didn't think you were invoking a 'conspiracy'!

However, I just want to flag up that I added a little bit to the post you've quoted. Put it there for completeness. But it does draw attention to the long string text search I did there - drew a blank for Scribd by the way. But it did find a link to someone previously suspended by the Compliance Unit from the Labour Party who supposedly made his own personal submission to Chakrabarti.

I put a link to his 'interesting' submission in that post but see that the timing of our posts might have coincided and you might have missed. If you check his name out you will find all kinds of accusations from all kinds of sources! Circumstantially, but not conclusively, this all tends to suggest that only those who had deliberately been made aware of the Royall Report accessed it (or perhaps were able to access it privately - certainly possible directly on Scribd but I don't know how that would have looked - 'embedded' in the Labour Press published webpage? Very doubtful!).

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:56 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I don't like the sound of that at all.
I actually don't understand it. How can anyone check what you spend using cash (for insistence). ?
It doesn't sound as though cash is involved.
"Public sector organisations can also now buy blockchain services for the first time through the government’s Digital Marketplace.

The G-Cloud 8 framework, which provides the latest list of companies which can sell their services, includes Credits, a financial
technology start-up which provides a distributed ledger platform on which other organisations can build apps.

A distributed ledger is an asset database that can be shared across several networks, sites or institutions. All participants have
their own copy of the ledger and changes made in one site are reflected across all copies."

Yes but if (say) I got paid £54 & took it out from the bank in cash how can what I spend it on it be traced ? More people will use cash as the chosen option for spending.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:01 pm

We're increasingly moving to a cash less society, or so we're told.
So every transaction will be traceable. D'oh, am being thick yet again, presumably that's the point of bitcoin, to hide your trail ?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:02 pm

Cults.

There was an ashram in Liverpool that one of my mates joined. The followers were opening a centre with a wholefood shop, vegetarian restaurant, art and drama studios plus moving their existing print shop, commercial as well as meeting their own needs, into the basement. Another friend and I volunteered our assistance largely because of the vegetarianism.

We were both invited to meet a visiting swami or whatever. The other refused, but I being into yoga agreed. 'And so it was that I went to the ashram, enjoyed a meal then some time later was invited to meet said swami. After a few words he invited me to meditate with him... Twenty minutes or so later we spoke again and I duly left only to be pounced on by Liverpool's top man, "So when are you joining? "

"What do you mean, join? I was only asked if I wanted to meet your guy and I now have thank you."

After that despite our continued assistance we later found they'd labelled the two of us 'black'.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:02 pm

Blockchain for efficiency and identity

There are currently billions of people worldwide who are living without a legal identity,
making it difficult to monitor births, deaths, work, taxation and migration for those individuals.

Spens proposed that blockchain technology could be used as a ledger for keeping track of people
and issuing them with a digital ID. “Blockchain as a technology might help digital legal identity and
help those billions of people into society,” he said.

But, in reality, Spens said the advantage of blockchain for government would be in the efficiency benefits.
“Blockchain is industry agnostic and it just replaces business process. [By using blockchain] governments
could become a lot more efficient across a number of different departments.”

Since distributed ledgers can act as a replacement of some backend processes, it can consolidate some existing
systems, such as similar systems in government departments. As updates to the ledger happen instantaneously,
there is proof of transactions across all systems without the need for a middle man.

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/4503 ... blockchain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good lord, no!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:06 pm

What a co-incidence. UD

I think I was around that place in Liverpool, in 1971. A rather chubby guy dark hair and a moustache worked in the cafe if my memory serves me.
Let's just say his interest in me was not purely spiritual, and he was keen to take me upstairs to 'meditate'.
Also the free school, in the non-Tory sense of the word, in the Scotland Road area was being set up at that time.

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Proposals by Companies House to delete more than 2.5m public records and destroy the virtual history of defunct business would damage the fight against corruption,
...
and hinder businesses, journalists and the police in their efforts.
...
Tory government still working on Tory goals.

Ah, Companies House! The epitome of a <irony>model of transparency</irony>. The bane of any researcher, many of whom would actually be secretly relieved that this had been done as, either by cock-up or conspiracy or some combination, finding stuff is made hard, impossibly hard or just impossible for the biggest companies. They can now just give up on some research before having to start. See Mark Ballard (for a 'lefty' view of tech.) from Sept. 2015:
Companies House investigates large firms' reluctance to provide open financial data
which contains a link to the month before, discussing the use of the iXBRL data format:
Companies registrar reverts electronic documents to photocopies - Collaboration Technology 2.0

In a bizarre reversal of the government’s digital-by-default policy, Companies House has been receiving company accounts as data but turning them into PDFs often containing poor-quality, low resolution images, before releasing them to the general public on its website.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:20 pm

Mmm, '71, not sure it was quite that early, yahyah although the Scotty Road Free School was and the St. George's Project (not the restoration of said building but youth club and suchlike). I can't remember where the ashram was but the place I was referring to was on Hardman Street. I'm furious with myself now because the name of the wine bar that soon opened next door has escaped me for the moment. Two chaps from the East End with money to burn. At least that's how I read it because they never seemed to quibble the price for whatever they wanted doing.

I first met them when they'd come back to a flat I shared and was woken in the middle of the night by two of them. "We've come back with two blokes and don't want anything to happen." I think they were a little upset by how well we got on, the ladies were upset that is.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:31 pm

Sorry to be dense about the Blockchain thingy, but what exactly is being "tracked" by it? At first I thought it was cash spending they were trying to track, now it seems more than that?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:33 pm

It can't be the same place then, am trying to remember the name of the cafe.
Maybe it was an early incarnation of the group, because I knew a fashion designer in that area who was involved with a guru.
It was probably 70, not as late as 71.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:37 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Sorry to be dense about the Blockchain thingy, but what exactly is being "tracked" by it? At first I thought it was cash spending they were trying to track, now it seems more than that?

blockchain technology could be used as a ledger for keeping track of people and issuing them with a digital ID.

Yes. We'll be granted access codes allowing approved existence.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:46 pm

Night all.

If I'm not around in the next few days, I haven't flounced but will be busy.
Also my BP was up over 200 today, despite the doctor upping my meds yesterday, so my husband is insisting I spend some time chilling out. Waiting for the weather to lift so we can have a nice day out too.

Have to make a confession. You may have noticed me seeming cheerier this afternoon.

After a lot of souls searching with my husband, him expressing concern about the effect Labour infighting was having on me, and because I was saddened by the attempts to sabotage an attempt to provide a safe space for people to share about the leadership.

He reprinted my resignation letter with a few words of his own added, added his own membership number and signature, and we walked to the village and posted it. Didn't wait until going to Lampeter tomorrow, wanted to get it in the postbox. I phoned the bank and stopped the direct debit too.

My husband had felt we should stay in the party, and try and put right the mess we'd had a hand in creating
But as he said today, my health is paramount. I don't drink much, smoke or eat a healthy diet, but having a bp reading that high is putting my life at risk.

Sorry to those who will feel I've bailed out.
But if I had voted for Smith, it would be a case of forever being made to feel ashamed, or a traitor, or a Blairite. Yesterday's shenanigans, and Smith being called a 'snivelling, lying sack of shit' by a fellow Labour member made me think, do I want to be in this party ?
If Smith wins, there'll still be war and swearing. Corbyn shows little sign of understanding what is needed, so if he wins it'll be business as usual and war and swearing.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:47 pm

Interview with the two Owens

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:48 pm

yahyah wrote:Night all.

Goodnight, yahyah!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:50 pm

Feel like a weight has been taken off me.
Just wish I had listened to the warnings last year. Maybe that's why I felt so cross with the Brexit/Lexit voters, felt they were following a dream, but had been sold a pup.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:00 pm

@yahyah

The movement I was referring to was called something like Ananda Marga. I did look into their Indian background and was not at all impressed but none of the Liverpool group thanked me for suggesting they were being exploited. The wholefood shop and restaurant were fine though as was the other stuff as long as you didn't get too close.

I'm still annoyed at a name that should roll off the tongue... Ah Kirklands Wine Bar was immediately next door. Btw I do have my reasons but generally keep quiet about my Liverpool days. My second wife didn't believe many of my tales until I took her. The first friend that we bumped into casually invited us to hop on a plane to LA.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:23 pm

I know when I'm not wanted. I'm disagreeable too.

a) I used to be a LibDem,
b) People rarely agree with me.

Postscript: For example people that disagreed with me: Derek Hatton plus a future leader of the Young Conservatives. That's all I'm saying.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:29 pm

sainsbury's cheese (and black pepper) muffins

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:34 pm

utopiandreams wrote:I know when I'm not wanted. I'm disagreeable too.

a) I used to be a LibDem,
b) People rarely agree with me.

Postscript: For example people that disagreed with me: Derek Hatton plus a future leader of the Young Conservatives. That's all I'm saying.

Derek Hatton always reminded me of Billy Corkhill off Brookside (or vice versa)

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:39 pm

Sorry, tinyclanger, I don't think I've ever seen Brookside. Dirty Den and Ena Sharples were around the last time I saw a soap.

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:49 pm

Hi. Someone was asking about equality of outcomes v equality of opportunity so I thought I'd add my two pennorth.
Back in the day when the EHRC had a decent budget and there was a political will to tackle socio-economic inequalities, the Commission designed a set of measurement frameworks to set a baseline for evidence of positive outcomes.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... -framework" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Needless to say, not much has been seen of this piece of work since Labour was in power. There's little point in measuring the percentage of older people whose care needs are being met when that data could be used against Coalition / Tory govt policy. And any qualitative data eg about quality of care & satisfaction with the service and those who do the caring would blow the myth that public services can do more with less money right out of the water.

One thing the last Labour govt did was to legislate for a socio-economic duty on public bodies. This duty was not implemented by the Coalition because it would have impeded their plans to wallop the poorest areas with the severest budget cuts and the poorest citizens with ever diminishing incomes.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:51 pm

Hmm.
Ena left Corrie in 1980; Brookie started 1982 and Eastenders 1985.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:56 pm

Once filmed scenes from Brookside in the RSB Wavertree where my wife worked.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:03 pm

One of the most exciting moments of my life was getting tipped by Brookie cast member while working in bar in Liverpool

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:04 pm

Must admit I watched it for the first few years.As to the Damon and Debbie story & spin off wonderful stuff.
.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:07 pm

From the NS article

On the prospect of a progressive alliance, the latest polls show that the Conservative and Ukip support, added together, reaches over 50 per cent. So anyone wishing for proportional representation is hoping for a Tory-Ukip government. They are also projecting their own wishes on to Jeremy Corbyn. Despite urging from John McDonnell, he has never thrown his weight behind electoral reform.

Extrapolating from current figs excludes any improvement in LP performance, also that the exiting process actually gets anywhere at all (what are the bookies quoting ? ), and the state of the UK and World economies.

Etc.

Anything can happen, it's far too early to be depressed !

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:10 pm

Looks like there were a few of us in the area about the same time.

pala · Post by **pala** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:12 pm

Re posted from CIF under Luke Akehurst's opinion.

I posted this a while back and I'm posting it again. It seems pertinent.

How long before the actual vote? Since I thought that the 'debate' during the build up to the Brexit vote was moronic. This now threatens to surpass that.
This is supposed to be a vote over who would be the best candidate to lead the Labour Party into the forthcoming 2020 General Election. However, we have a few problems right away. Even the most cursory glance at the opposition benches suggest a frightening dearth of talent. A bunch of men and women bereft of vision, dynamism, and creativity. If this is really the best that Labour can produce we really are in trouble.

And this is no defence of Jeremy Corbyn either. He, like the rest of them, is a very mediocre man. However, unlike his colleagues, he is actually aware of this. He is prepared to listen to those around them. To talk to them, to engage with people from the grassroots up. Hence why he has held more than 50% of the vote in his constituency since the late 1980's.

Secondly is his incorruptible decency. In a Westminster chock full of crooks, liars, cheats, slanderers etc. here is a man that has dedicated his entire life to doing the right thing. More than that, he hasn't gone around bragging about it.

Now, the great irony is, that it was the that he seemed such a mundane individual. A poor man's Tony Benn, if you will. It was for this reason that he was 'allowed' to continue by the then ruling party elite. It was that "he had survived in Parliament to middle age with half his wits, while hundreds have lost their seats with all of their wits intact. Quality it seems is better than quantity'.

But sitting here writing about personality is the thing that people like me are trying to avoid. Since it is not about who Jeremy Corbyn is, rather what he represents. Which for me are two things. One is the political method, the other the political ideology. Both of which from Corbyn's (and my) viewpoint run anathema to everything that New Labour stands for.

New Labour, as we all should know by now runs politics in classically corporatist manner. That it is to say. Top down, strictly defined (and enforced) hierarchies, and little in the way of internal democracy. All decisions are made by the party elite and then carried through (via the middle managers) to those beneath. 'Loyalty', which in essence means never questioning your superiors is prized above all. Hence why very average people can rise very highly simply by toeing the official party line.
On top of that there is obsession with appearance and presentation. This is party politics for the TV & Digitial Age. Everything must look and sound perfect. Every word in every speech carefully selected so that nothing may be misinterpreted. The media must be kept onside. Potentially friendly journalists courted, hostile ones threatened. The voters must only see what the party wants them to see. That is,the image of a slick, efficienct, and above all unified party.

Unified on what exactly? That would be of course the official New Labour Party ideology, or whatever that may be. In the crudest sense, it was an unwieldy amalgam of Thatcherism and Fabianism. Seeking to fuse the economic dynamism of the right with the social conscience of the left. Instead what they got was the greed, short-sightedness, and callousness of the right. And the great clunking rigidity and turgidity of the left.

Now on both counts Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters stand as polar opposites. The man is a Social Democrat in the classical sense. Which means he views Thatcherism in all its forms as inherently wrong. As do those around him, which in the post 2008 world has grown significantly.
Then of course he believes in strong internal party democracy and a focus of substance. Which, when you consider that in the past 20 years we have been lead into the abyss by two sharp-suited charlatans. It does suggest a most appealing alternative. Which is the absolute crux of the matter.

A return to Blairism is a return to a politics that has failed and that has been proven to fail. That you do not see them arguing over this point is indicative of their nature. When they see a point that they know they cannot win, they will thus seek to talk about something else. Something irrelevant to be sure, but which they will 'present' completely otherwise.

Which is why the next few weeks are going to be one almighty drain on the soul. Imbecilic points scoring, but who cares so long as we aren't talking about anything that really matters.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:12 pm

It started off -politics,class issues,trade unionism well but became muted and lost its way IMHO.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:14 pm

Byron burgers accused of reducing taxable profits using tax haven loans

Parent company of fast food chain, this week embroiled in immigration row, said to have made payments on loans of £80m
Protesters outside a branch of Byron with placard saying 'migration is not a crime' (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... taxable-pr

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:26 pm

With respect,it is probably the way I am made but I cannot get past the basic position of totally uncorruptible v liars,cheats ie.the unquestioned binary thing.It equally works the other way.I switch off.The basic premise is wrong.Just the fact of recognising people are human.I try as well as I can,actually existing means I fail to maintain purity.Even then that means different things to different people.As ihave said before if a loved ones life is in danger and the only way to ensure safety is be "corrupted"I would willingly do so as I would hope everybody else would do in the same position.At most you could possible argue is subscetibilty to being corrupted and then ask for what end.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:36 pm

Cheers for the info, tinyclanger. Now let me see, 81-85? Three kiddies join the fray, that may explain it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:51 pm

One of my favs when feeling down & depressed is to go to The Darwin Awards on twitter and scroll down the page...
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Oops!
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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 8:53 pm

I've just been across to the other two threads. Welsh Male Face Choirs seems to be the last thing to come up on the Owen Smith thread. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Edited to add an "s"

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 9:01 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've just been across to the other two threads. Welsh Male Face Choirs seems to be the last thing to come up on the Owen Smith thread. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Edited to add an "s"

Not sure, which end have you got?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 9:02 pm

"Degsy" Hatton,Mulhearn,47 expelled Councillors and the Kilfoylean /Jane Kennedy (now PCC Merseyside)clearances of '86.Thirty years ago,good grief.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 9:10 pm

utopiandreams wrote:Cheers for the info, tinyclanger. Now let me see, 81-85? Three kiddies join the fray, that may explain it.

Doreen (Jimmy's wife) was a dab hand at "warming [Jimmy's tea] through".

Brought joy to me life.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 9:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've just been across to the other two threads. Welsh Male Face Choirs seems to be the last thing to come up on the Owen Smith thread. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Edited to add an "s"
Not sure, which end have you got?

That one . . . .