Thursday 8th September 2016

[refitman]

Morning all.

[StephenDolan]

Morning.

May's choice of twitter reference was pretty poor. Haven't seen much reference to it yet by political commentators, or dare I say it Labour figures?

Raining cats and dogs here, what happened to the warm weather all week?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Morning All

May not looking very sure-footed IMHO.

Grammar schools and a refurb of the Houses of Parliament. Does she really think that's going to have 'em flocking to vote Tory?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

[SpinningHugo]

7/10?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/j ... pbbDnRdQ5v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tinybgoat]

Morning All

May not looking very sure-footed IMHO.

Grammar schools and a refurb of the Houses of Parliament. Does she really think that's going to have 'em flocking to vote Tory?

I'm not sure about the motive for allowing more Grammar schools, my initial suspicion was that it was just to placate the right wing, then thought it might be to create a distraction.

(See, Grammar school didn't do me any harm, except instil scepticism, paranoia, a distrust of authority & a sudden confidence crisis in how to spell 'suspicion')

[RogerOThornhill]

Grammar schools

Trying to get UKIP voters back on board with a "See, the real Conservatives are back and those liberal-types have all gone. It's safe to return now now that you've got Brexit out of your system"

[gilsey]

Grammar schools

Trying to get UKIP voters back on board with a "See, the real Conservatives are back and those liberal-types have all gone. It's safe to return now now that you've got Brexit out of your system"

From the G

“She said she didn’t want a situation where parents wanted a selective school only to be told they couldn’t have one,” a source at the meeting said.

Wrong on so many levels.

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

13m ago 10:38
Fox says he would consider hiring foreigner to head international trade department

In the Commons Liam Fox has just said he will have an open, international competition to find a new official to head the new international trade secretary.

Fox says he would consider hiring foreigner to head international trade department.

(Politics Live, Guardian)

I didn't realise Adam Werrity was a foreign national. Unless Liam Fox knows more about the Scottish independence issue than do the rest of us.

[danesclose]

7/10?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/j ... pbbDnRdQ5v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As the CEBR report cited relies on ratification of TTIP, which is against Labour policy, I'd give Corbyn 10/10 for supporting the agreed policy of his party. Wouldn't you?

As the attached link says, the unanswered question is why Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, was working to undermine the party with a briefing that flew in the face of established policy and supported a scheme that would harm people across the UK.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/09/0 ... le-market/

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ember-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



ESA: outcomes of Work Capability Assessments including mandatory reconsiderations and appeals: September 2016

[AnatolyKasparov]

Morning.

May's choice of twitter reference was pretty poor. Haven't seen much reference to it yet by political commentators, or dare I say it Labour figures?

Its had a bit of coverage. Though not as much as if it had been Corbyn misstepping in such a way, obviously.

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ar-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finn was a couple of marks short in each of the tests. “It was the first time he actually referred to himself as a failure,” said Haylett, who has two younger children who will not be sitting the Kent test. “Not a chance,” she said.

“I found it very divisive. I found it very demoralising. He is still holding the negativity and sense of failure with him.”

If grammar schools were so great, they would never have got rid of them in the first place. They probably did aid social mobility back in the days when many children left school at 14 to follow in their father's footsteps, as they allowed brighter working class children a route to A levels and university which would have been closed to them at other schools but in these days of comprehensives with all children given the same opportunities to take GCSE's and A levels, I'm not sure what opportunity grammar schools provide to children from working class families that they are denied elsewhere.

[PorFavor]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ar-schools

Finn was a couple of marks short in each of the tests. “It was the first time he actually referred to himself as a failure,” said Haylett, who has two younger children who will not be sitting the Kent test. “Not a chance,” she said.

“I found it very divisive. I found it very demoralising. He is still holding the negativity and sense of failure with him.”

If grammar schools were so great, they would never have got rid of them in the first place. They probably did aid social mobility back in the days when many children left school at 14 to follow in their father's footsteps, as they allowed brighter working class children a route to A levels and university which would have been closed to them at other schools but in these days of comprehensives with all children given the same opportunities to take GCSE's and A levels, I'm not sure what opportunity grammar schools provide to children from working class families that they are denied elsewhere.

But families had to be financially comfortable enough to forgo another "breadwinner", though. So, even then, it wasn't such a guaranteed gateway to opportunity.

[danesclose]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ar-schools

Finn was a couple of marks short in each of the tests. “It was the first time he actually referred to himself as a failure,” said Haylett, who has two younger children who will not be sitting the Kent test. “Not a chance,” she said.

“I found it very divisive. I found it very demoralising. He is still holding the negativity and sense of failure with him.”

If grammar schools were so great, they would never have got rid of them in the first place. They probably did aid social mobility back in the days when many children left school at 14 to follow in their father's footsteps, as they allowed brighter working class children a route to A levels and university which would have been closed to them at other schools but in these days of comprehensives with all children given the same opportunities to take GCSE's and A levels, I'm not sure what opportunity grammar schools provide to children from working class families that they are denied elsewhere.

But families had to be financially comfortable enough to forgo another "breadwinner", though. So, even then, it wasn't such a guaranteed gateway to opportunity.

True, my grandad passed his 11+ & went to grammar school in 1920's. He had to leave after passing his school certificate to serve his time as a boilermaker, as his father had died & he had to support his diabetic mother & younger siblings

[AnatolyKasparov]

Its about what grammar schools are seen to represent, rather than whatever actual intrinsic merit they ever possessed.

I've even heard some quite left wing people use the "social mobility" argument in their favour - when it can in fact to be argued the fact that was better in the immediate post war period than now was actually due much more to other factors. A classic case of correlation not equalling causation

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ar-schools

Finn was a couple of marks short in each of the tests. “It was the first time he actually referred to himself as a failure,” said Haylett, who has two younger children who will not be sitting the Kent test. “Not a chance,” she said.

“I found it very divisive. I found it very demoralising. He is still holding the negativity and sense of failure with him.”

If grammar schools were so great, they would never have got rid of them in the first place. They probably did aid social mobility back in the days when many children left school at 14 to follow in their father's footsteps, as they allowed brighter working class children a route to A levels and university which would have been closed to them at other schools but in these days of comprehensives with all children given the same opportunities to take GCSE's and A levels, I'm not sure what opportunity grammar schools provide to children from working class families that they are denied elsewhere.

But families had to be financially comfortable enough to forgo another "breadwinner", though. So, even then, it wasn't such a guaranteed gateway to opportunity.

Good point.

[Willow904]

Its about what grammar schools are seen to represent, rather than whatever actual intrinsic merit they ever possessed.

I've even heard some quite left wing people use the "social mobility" argument in their favour - when it can in fact to be argued the fact that was better in the immediate post war period than now was actually due much more to other factors. A classic case of correlation not equalling causation

Again a very good point. An increase in available middle class jobs would lead to some working class upward mobility to fill them, regardless of the existence of grammar schools which, if they didn't already exist, would have been invented to fulfil the need.

[Willow904]

Modern Tory Britain - applying populist solutions to problems that don't exist, because nostalgia is more important than facts.

[gilsey]

My parents both won scholarships to grammar school, would have been mid-1930s, that's where they met. Dad was very bright indeed and wanted to go to university but it wasn't on, he joined the LA treasurer's dept as a trainee accountant instead. He came top in the country in one of his IMTA exams and it went completely over his parents heads, sad.

So I'd say yes, social mobility but in another age, not relevant now.

[Willow904]

From the G live blog:

Labour is remarkably united in strongly opposing grammar schools. By my count only one Labour MP expressed some support for the government’s idea (Kate Hoey) and otherwise it was striking how MPs from all wings of the party spoke out very strongly against the idea. Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, was particularly effective

Is Kate Hoey sure she's in the right party?

Puts other divisions within Labour into perspective, though. On education at least the instincts of Labour MPs is very firmly to the left of the Tories.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Universal credit is undeliverable: but who'll tell ministers the truth?
David Walker

The Tories’ flagship welfare reform has been bedevilled by their determination to make the poor suffer

[HindleA]

Labour Press
The scale of the crisis of insecure work under the Tories is getting worse with every passing year - Abrahams

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1501181 ... -under-the" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AnatolyKasparov]

From the G live blog:

Labour is remarkably united in strongly opposing grammar schools. By my count only one Labour MP expressed some support for the government’s idea (Kate Hoey) and otherwise it was striking how MPs from all wings of the party spoke out very strongly against the idea. Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, was particularly effective

Is Kate Hoey sure she's in the right party?

Puts other divisions within Labour into perspective, though. On education at least the instincts of Labour MPs is very firmly to the left of the Tories.

Though you would never have guessed that when Tristram Hunt was shadowing (very appropriate term here, perhaps) Gove

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ts-slashed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Rhiannon, 14, cares for her dad. Now cuts have made life even harder
Frances Ryan

[HindleA]

(Not the )Autumn statement on 23rd November

[AnatolyKasparov]

From the G live blog:

Labour is remarkably united in strongly opposing grammar schools. By my count only one Labour MP expressed some support for the government’s idea (Kate Hoey) and otherwise it was striking how MPs from all wings of the party spoke out very strongly against the idea. Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, was particularly effective

Is Kate Hoey sure she's in the right party?

Puts other divisions within Labour into perspective, though. On education at least the instincts of Labour MPs is very firmly to the left of the Tories.

Hoey is actually quite left wing on *some* subjects - the term "maverick" is over-used, but I think she genuinely has a claim to it.

(far more pro-Corbyn than much of the party in Lambeth, as well)

[Willow904]

From the G live blog:

Labour is remarkably united in strongly opposing grammar schools. By my count only one Labour MP expressed some support for the government’s idea (Kate Hoey) and otherwise it was striking how MPs from all wings of the party spoke out very strongly against the idea. Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, was particularly effective

Is Kate Hoey sure she's in the right party?

Puts other divisions within Labour into perspective, though. On education at least the instincts of Labour MPs is very firmly to the left of the Tories.

Hoey is actually quite left wing on *some* subjects - the term "maverick" is over-used, but I think she genuinely has a claim to it.

(far more pro-Corbyn than much of the party in Lambeth, as well)

No doubt the media only talk to her about the things she veers to the right on, then, because I've never noticed her to be radically left wing. I find myself agreeing with Tristram Hunt more often than Hoey, so maybe I'm in the wrong party.

[AnatolyKasparov]

You may jest in your initial comment, but I suspect it is not too far from the actual truth.

[Willow904]

You may jest in your initial comment, but I suspect it is not too far from the actual truth.

Well I wasn't entirely jesting, I can see it would be likely, the problem is she doesn't help Labour very much when she's on one of her right wing rants. She really winds my husband up. Just don't let her near education.

[JonnyT1234]

Flyby visit after impromptu break from the Internet/politics/LabourLeadershipTedium.

Interesting perspective from a former Lib Dem/Clegg fan:

Jeremy Corbyn didn’t radicalise me – Nick Clegg did - The Independent
https://apple.news/AKy_CS0CdQfesddBTm-CweA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit:

PS. Hope folks are well and a ceasefire is in place.

[JonnyT1234]

You may jest in your initial comment, but I suspect it is not too far from the actual truth.

Well I wasn't entirely jesting, I can see it would be likely, the problem is she doesn't help Labour very much when she's on one of her right wing rants. She really winds my husband up. Just don't let her near education.

Just don't let her near anything. Like Field, one of those MPs that perpetually leaves me wondering how on Earth they ever became Labour ones.

[Willow904]

Flyby visit after impromptu break from the Internet/politics/LabourLeadershipTedium.

Interesting perspective from a former Lib Dem/Clegg fan:

Jeremy Corbyn didn’t radicalise me – Nick Clegg did - The Independent
https://apple.news/AKy_CS0CdQfesddBTm-CweA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit:

PS. Hope folks are well and a ceasefire is in place.

I can understand the disillusionment. I can't agree, however, that Ed Miliband is a similar class of politician to Nick Clegg. I think Ed would have made a very good PM, much better than the one we have now, and he would have kept his promises.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Flyby visit after impromptu break from the Internet/politics/LabourLeadershipTedium.

Interesting perspective from a former Lib Dem/Clegg fan:

Jeremy Corbyn didn’t radicalise me – Nick Clegg did - The Independent
https://apple.news/AKy_CS0CdQfesddBTm-CweA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit:

PS. Hope folks are well and a ceasefire is in place.

As you can see from the post counts, it has been quiet here the last few days. We could do with some more input - old posters or new

[HindleA]

https://www.inclusionlondon.org.uk/camp ... e-year-on/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


One year on: Evaluating the impact of the closure of the Independent Living Fund

This report seeks to evidence the impact of the closure with a focus on the situation in London.


In four local authority areas, more than half of former ILF recipients have had their care packages cut since it closed.

In all, at least 185 former ILF recipients have so far seen their support cut, out of a total of about 1,300 across London.

[PorFavor]

Flyby visit after impromptu break from the Internet/politics/LabourLeadershipTedium.

Interesting perspective from a former Lib Dem/Clegg fan:

Jeremy Corbyn didn’t radicalise me – Nick Clegg did - The Independent
https://apple.news/AKy_CS0CdQfesddBTm-CweA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit:

PS. Hope folks are well and a ceasefire is in place.

Some of us are rumoured to have been playing football . . . .

Hope all's well with you.

[tinyclanger2]

Clanger ahoy

[tinyclanger2]

Being an airhead, I find this sort of thing uplifting:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/ ... -the-proms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Volunteers will be handing out the flags after a successful Crowdfunder campaign raised £1,175 in order to fund the protest.

[tinyclanger2]

A Clanger's Brexit Business update - oh yes we're biased!

Lush confirms staff relocation to Germany following Brexit
http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.com/B ... ing-Brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Brighton shopkeeper blames Brexit as she closes after 22 years
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2016 ... -22-years/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Apple Prices More Expensive In The UK After Brexit
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-much-does-ip ... it-2413214" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Former WTO boss attacks ‘total confusion’ over Brexit
http://www.politico.eu/article/former-w ... eresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Ryanair to cut back on UK flights in favour of EU routes after Brexit vote
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 54366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tinyclanger2]

Brexiteers put out that EU looking out for EU:

http://www.politico.eu/article/two-belg ... to-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

The Sun’s political editor, Tom Newton Dunn, tweeted “hard to think of a more anti-British figure, declaration of war.”

The Daily Express leaned on the caps-lock button as it wrote about the “Most DANGEROUS man in EU” and bemoaned that Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker had hired a “French FEDERALIST to negotiate on Brexit.”

Has Gove's Mrs moved to the Express?

[tinyclanger2]

Hellooo...ooo...oooo...oooo...ooo...oooo...ooo...ooo...ooo...oooo...ooo...oooo...ooo

[tinyclanger2]

British workers ‘feel they have been shafted’ by Brexit, says TUC leader
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 30906.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unless, presumably, they live in Boston where 76% voted Leave

[tinyclanger2]

Meanwhile in the beautiful country:

Italian football fans give Nazi salute and boo Israel national anthem at World Cup qualifier

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 32341.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What kicked off in Austria in the early 2000s doesn't look like stopping any time soon.

[tinyclanger2]

Mark Steel:

If Labour members are being banned for supporting other parties, then Labour MPs should be banned for supporting Tory Party policies

Most Labour MPs supported Tory Party policies on welfare, immigration and war, so when the General Secretary gets round to banning them, there will end up being a minus figure of members, meaning any candidate who wins nought votes will be the clear winner

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/if- ... 32551.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And holding that there referendum.

[tinyclanger2]

So you hear of reasons for being banned such as “tweeting a preference for cucumbers over spring onions”

[tinyclanger2]

Long-standing members are banned because “you boiled an egg in a manner that could support terrorism”

[tinyclanger2]

"More than that, we will be seizing the opportunities that leaving the European Union now gives us to forge a new role for the United Kingdom in the world.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30511.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JonnyT1234]

Long-standing members are banned because “you boiled an egg in a manner that could support terrorism”

"to death"
Presumably.

[JonnyT1234]

Hellooo...ooo...oooo...oooo...ooo...oooo...ooo...ooo...ooo...oooo...ooo...oooo...ooo

... Is there anyone th...

OK. Enough of that.

[tinyclanger2]

Jesus. You made me jump.