Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd October 2016

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:40 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/716744 ... -reporting
BBC veteran blasts Brexit vote: 'Outcome would have been different if they knew the facts'

Yes John - if only you'd had a massive global platform from which you could have done something about it in advance.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:47 pm

Bean Bunny is a character you either love or hate. But the truth is, he was created for just that purpose: for you to “love to hate” him, or “hate to love” him. He’s sort of an anti-Muppet, reslishing his cuteness even as the other Muppets distance themselves from that quality. Bean Bunny is cuteness incarnate. In The Muppets at Walt Disney World, Scooter explains Bean’s role in the Muppets by saying, “That’s his job. You see, the rest of us got sick of being cute, so we hired him to do it.”

bean bunny.jpg (5.53 KiB) Viewed 10571 times

http://muppetcast.com/muppet-fans-sound ... ean-bunny/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:50 pm

As compared to:

Wikipedia wrote: Statler and Waldorf are a pair of Muppet characters known for their cantankerous opinions and mutual penchant for heckling. The two elderly men first appeared in The Muppet Show, where they consistently jeered the entirety of the cast and their performances from their balcony seats.

Statler_and_Waldorf.jpg (10.84 KiB) Viewed 10570 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:51 pm

@ tinyclanger2
Special thanks for your links today. Currently, private industry may turn UK nature reserves into DisneyWorld2
yet another article informs readers Brexit is necessary in order for private industry to protect nature reserves.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:54 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Bean Bunny is a character you either love or hate. But the truth is, he was created for just that purpose: for you to “love to hate” him, or “hate to love” him. He’s sort of an anti-Muppet, reslishing his cuteness even as the other Muppets distance themselves from that quality. Bean Bunny is cuteness incarnate. In The Muppets at Walt Disney World, Scooter explains Bean’s role in the Muppets by saying, “That’s his job. You see, the rest of us got sick of being cute, so we hired him to do it.”
http://muppetcast.com/muppet-fans-sound ... ean-bunny/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA edit)

like hell
I'm not cute at all

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 2:56 pm

Yet I am!
Though it's fair to say I'm also a cantankerous heckler.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 3:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/716744 ... -reporting
BBC veteran blasts Brexit vote: 'Outcome would have been different if they knew the facts'
Yes John - if only you'd had a massive global platform from which you could have done something about it in advance.

I'm not sure if he had a great deal of output into most of the BBCs reporting, tbf.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 3:22 pm

Apparently I'm a bit of an animal......muppet style, obviously

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 3:41 pm

Just can't see that in you Willow.

I'm boring old Dr Bunsen Honeydew. Sounds like an explosion of melon in a laboratory.

Having read his profile though there is a thread of truth in it.
He invents daft things. I ponder inventions like...this is true...a small tray to put one cup of tea on.
My husband pointed out someone had got to it before me and called it a saucer.
Or when we wanted to dig a pond....no I am not going to admit what I suggested we did with the soil that came out of the hole.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/716744 ... -reporting
BBC veteran blasts Brexit vote: 'Outcome would have been different if they knew the facts'
Yes John - if only you'd had a massive global platform from which you could have done something about it in advance.
I'm not sure if he had a great deal of output into most of the BBCs reporting, tbf.

He was in the right place at the right time. Having influence or not is fundamentally a matter of will.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:15 pm

glad you enjoyed the quiz.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:21 pm

Theresa May Prioritises Immigration Controls Over Single Market Post-Brexit
The prime minister said there was “no such thing as ~~society~~ a choice between ‘soft Brexit’ and ‘hard Brexit’.”
https://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewchampio ... .hl0eKRNBJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said the speech was confirmation of “hard Brexit”.
“No single market,” he tweeted, “which means disaster for British jobs.”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:22 pm

albeit rubbish

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:29 pm

Poor deluded Britain.
We're ****ed.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:45 pm

As predicted:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Soft Brexit preferred choice of Britons as poll shows willingness to compromise on immigration

And thus:
The most popular politician in the UK
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/th ... ong-tradi/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

widely perceived as the champion of the British people:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 27726.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Theresa May prioritises immigration curbs over single market
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-movement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:51 pm

“We are going to be a fully-independent, sovereign country, a country that is no longer part of a political union with supranational institutions that can override national parliaments and courts. And that means we are going, once more, to have the freedom to make our own decisions on a whole host of different matters, from how we label our food to the way in which we choose to control immigration.”
http://leftfootforward.org/2016/10/ther ... we-feared/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Of course we are. Not only that, but globalization will stop so that such a thing is even possible. And supernational companies will all want to come here rather than poxy Europe. And British workers employment rights will at some point equal those on the continent. And our green and pleasant land won't be trashed by the removal of environmental legislation. And farmers and Wales and science and the NHS will get loads and loads of dosh. And the English will be welcomed everywhere. And English will remain the world's most-used language. Oh - and climate change won't happen.

Deluded.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:55 pm

yahyah wrote:Just can't see that in you Willow.

I'm boring old Dr Bunsen Honeydew. Sounds like an explosion of melon in a laboratory.

Having read his profile though there is a thread of truth in it.
He invents daft things. I ponder inventions like...this is true...a small tray to put one cup of tea on.
My husband pointed out someone had got to it before me and called it a saucer.
Or when we wanted to dig a pond....no I am not going to admit what I suggested we did with the soil that came out of the hole.

It must be the preference for the Red Hot Chilli Peppers for choice of song and my love of lie-ins I guess

.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 4:59 pm

Our Worcester Bosch combi boiler's gone on the blink.
Trying to contact a plumber on a Sunday is not an easy task.
We think the hot water's still working. Suspect the pump's gone.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:08 pm

May's speech making it crystal clear we are leaving the single market and heading for hard Brexit.

And the only opposition I have seen comes from Nicola Sturgeon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:10 pm

And the Lib Dem bloke.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:12 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:May's speech making it crystal clear we are leaving the single market and heading for hard Brexit.

And the only opposition I have seen comes from Nicola Sturgeon.

I think a lot of people still can't quite believe she means it yet, tbh. It could certainly explain her insistence (repeated yesterday) on ruling out an early election, mind.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:19 pm

Labour's press release on the decision to go for hard Brexit is a bad joke

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1512388 ... icle-50-is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:19 pm

And Martin McGuinness
http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2016-10-02/ ... cguinness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:21 pm

labour party press release wrote:we will have to conclude she is only interested in achieving headlines not providing solutions.

Labour Press
A commitment on the timing of Article 50 is meaningless unless Theresa May can answer all the prior and more fundamental questions - Thornberry

Yes, that's the sort of snappy headline that will get the "story" out.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:25 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour's press release on the decision to go for hard Brexit is a bad joke

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1512388 ... icle-50-is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems reasonable enough as far as it goes. This is headline chasing from our PM every bit as much as Dave ever indulged in.

Interesting that polls don't show a majority for "hard" Brexit, so why is so much of the Tory party so gaga for it?

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:29 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 41256.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brits to replace foreign doctors post Brexit.
Of course they'll all be people who can afford to pay 5 years of increased tuition fees.
And they'll have to do something about the doctors that are retiring early.
And that ones that don't want to be GPs.
Because the pay and conditions aren't what they could get doing something else.

Good luck with this. Universities are admitting students to study medicine through clearing this year, so a lot of talent is looking elsewhere. And the GP training schemes are struggling for entrants. And that's up here, where according to my medical mates, things are pretty good compared with the rest of the country.
And a good afternoon to all. A cold, but bright and sunny afternoon here.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:32 pm

That is seriously mistaken.

First Labour's press release says nothing at all on the substance. What is Labour's position on these questions.

Second by stating that the decision to invoke art 50 now and thereby make hard Brexit inevitable is no big deal, Labour's position abandons people like me who want us to stay in the Single Market.

Why is this statement so empty of content?

Because Labour has no agreed policy?

Why?

Because Corbyn and McDonnell clearly favour leaving the Single Market, and are joining Liam Fix et all in favouring our having "access" to it (along with North Korea).

I think this decision is an economic disaster. There is no effective opposition to it (save in Scotland).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:51 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:That is seriously mistaken.

First Labour's press release says nothing at all on the substance. What is Labour's position on these questions.

Second by stating that the decision to invoke art 50 now and thereby make hard Brexit inevitable is no big deal, Labour's position abandons people like me who want us to stay in the Single Market.

Why is this statement so empty of content?

Because Labour has no agreed policy?

Why?

Because Corbyn and McDonnell clearly favour leaving the Single Market, and are joining Liam Fix et all in favouring our having "access" to it (along with North Korea).

I think this decision is an economic disaster. There is no effective opposition to it (save in Scotland).

Emily Thorbgerry's job is not to make Spinning Hugo happy it's to oppose the Government.

She's trying to point out the flaws in their approach. I agree the headline isn't the snappiest, but as with everything around EU membership it's hard to reduce the issues to a few words, which is why having a binary referendum was such a bad idea in the first place.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:53 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Labour's press release on the decision to go for hard Brexit is a bad joke

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1512388 ... icle-50-is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Seems reasonable enough as far as it goes. This is headline chasing from our PM every bit as much as Dave ever indulged in.

Interesting that polls don't show a majority for "hard" Brexit, so why is so much of the Tory party so gaga for it?

Because there's a majority for hard Brexit among Tory voters, I imagine.

Meanwhile remain voters are looking for a party to represent their views. In England that party currently looks like the Libdems, possibly Greens.

Labour may well end up losing votes from both sides of the debate because neither leave nor remain voters are being given any sense that the Labour position represents them.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:55 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:That is seriously mistaken.

First Labour's press release says nothing at all on the substance. What is Labour's position on these questions.

Second by stating that the decision to invoke art 50 now and thereby make hard Brexit inevitable is no big deal, Labour's position abandons people like me who want us to stay in the Single Market.

Why is this statement so empty of content?

Because Labour has no agreed policy?

Why?

Because Corbyn and McDonnell clearly favour leaving the Single Market, and are joining Liam Fix et all in favouring our having "access" to it (along with North Korea).

I think this decision is an economic disaster. There is no effective opposition to it (save in Scotland).
Emily Thorbgerry's job is not to make Spinning Hugo happy it's to oppose the Government.

She's trying to point out the flaws in their approach. I agree the headline isn't the snappiest, but as with everything around EU membership it's hard to reduce the issues to a few words, which is why having a binary referendum was such a bad idea in the first place.

What is Labour's position on the questions she asks?

Why does she think this decision is a "distraction"?

Does Labour want us in the si glearket? Or not.

My objection is not that it makes me unhappy. But rather that the main opposition party is awol on the biggest issue of our era.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:56 pm

Furthermore, your deduction SH that because they state no policy they don't have one is probably incorrect and is based entirely on your anti-Corbyn stance.

I am far from being alone here in thinking that the right thing to do is to wait until the mood changes and then push the pro-EU line when everyone has had time to see how unwieldy and probably undesirable Brexit is.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 5:59 pm

It's seriously much easier for the Lib Dems to espouse pro-EU isn't it?

Labour can't just ignore the vote. Opinion will shift in due course when the gloss wears off Brexit. In the mean time oppose oppose oppose and evidence the myriad flaws in the Tory arguments.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:00 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Labour's press release on the decision to go for hard Brexit is a bad joke

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1512388 ... icle-50-is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Seems reasonable enough as far as it goes. This is headline chasing from our PM every bit as much as Dave ever indulged in.

Interesting that polls don't show a majority for "hard" Brexit, so why is so much of the Tory party so gaga for it?
Because there's a majority for hard Brexit among Tory voters, I imagine.

Meanwhile remain voters are looking for a party to represent their views. In England that party currently looks like the Libdems, possibly Greens.

Labour may well end up losing votes from both sides of the debate because neither leave nor remain voters are being given any sense that the Labour position represents them.

I was polled for Opinium [presumably for today's Observer] this week.
I was asked how likely I'd be to vote for all the various parties in the future.
I dithered about it but eventually scored the Greens, Lib Dems and even Plaid [much as I dislike nationalism] a notch or two closer to considering voting for them in the future.
That's purely because of Brexit. Feels odd not to feel one can automatically trust Labour over it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:07 pm

Sorry Paul, but that's just the way I feel. It was during the referendum campaign that my opinion about Corbyn shifted. I watched him on stage at one event and he needed a crib sheet to say some very basic lines about why we should remain. This is the man who can talk without breath and at length on his favourite topics. Remain obviously wasn't one of them. He showed all the enthusiasm of someone who was telling us to vote for a dose of thrush.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:10 pm

PfY - again am hoping you're right.
Might have to make a special trip to Woodhouse Lane at some point.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:16 pm

My problem with the Labour press release is that it is basically an intellectual press release that no-one will pick up. I'm not anti-intellectual in any shape or form, but I worry about our failure to tell the right stories to the right people in the right ways. I share (I think it's Robert Snozers') hatred of the need for "narrative" but reluctantly accept that this is how it is. Labour is going to need to be a lot snappier if we're to make any kind of inroads.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:50 pm

yahyah wrote:Sorry Paul, but that's just the way I feel. It was during the referendum campaign that my opinion about Corbyn shifted. I watched him on stage at one event and he needed a crib sheet to say some very basic lines about why we should remain. This is the man who can talk without breath and at length on his favourite topics. Remain obviously wasn't one of them. He showed all the enthusiasm of someone who was telling us to vote for a dose of thrush.

I do understand your view yahyah and respect it very much.

It's well known that Corbyn has reservations about the EU. He has a valid view IMO though I don't share it in full. But it's Thornberry that is leading on this and I don't see her as at all anti-EU. Am I wrong?

I don't want you to agree with me, but I do think Thornberry's approach is a defensible, pragmatic one that makes the best of a bad situation. I'm glad the Lib Dems are in a position to make a strong pro-EU case. Lord knows it's time someone did. But I think Labour are quite right to wait before doing so themselves.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:51 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:PfY - again am hoping you're right.
Might have to make a special trip to Woodhouse Lane at some point.

You will be very welcome

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 6:53 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:My problem with the Labour press release is that it is basically an intellectual press release that no-one will pick up. I'm not anti-intellectual in any shape or form, but I worry about our failure to tell the right stories to the right people in the right ways. I share (I think it's Robert Snozers') hatred of the need for "narrative" but reluctantly accept that this is how it is. Labour is going to need to be a lot snappier if we're to make any kind of inroads.

It remains the case that narrative around EU politics is so difficult precisely because it's so complex. Which is one of the reasons Remain floundered so badly in the end.

But yes it would be good to have something more catchy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:06 pm

: Baby T-shirts displayed for sale at 2016 Conservative party conference Carl Court Getty Images.jpg (25.87 KiB) Viewed 10245 times

"Renewal’s goal is to broaden the appeal of the Conservative Party, so they are able to win sustainable majorities in the future and
govern alone for lengthy periods of time. The narrowing of Conservative appeal over recent decades has made the task of winning
majorities much more difficult, hence the critical importance of broadening appeal to groups of voters who do not feel that the
Conservative Party is on their side and to parts of the country where voting Conservative has become counter-cultural. Without
broadening their appeal, Conservatives will struggle to remain a party of government."

http://www.renewalgroup.org.uk/about-renewal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:15 pm

And so the Brexit fog gets thicker.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... s-11967722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:21 pm

'Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be Tories...'

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:26 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:And so the Brexit fog gets thicker.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... s-11967722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes there are already folk out there on Twitter saying May has made a massive mistake with her "hard Brexit" stance.

It just allows Corbyn to slot in like this and say "we want a trade agreement that the Tories are jeopardising" without saying whether he's Remain or soft Brexit.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:33 pm

Are we, or are we not "better together"?
It's not perfect here but I (for one) like it. A bit like being alive.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:34 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:And so the Brexit fog gets thicker.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... s-11967722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes there are already folk out there on Twitter saying May has made a massive mistake with her "hard Brexit" stance.

It just allows Corbyn to slot in like this and say "we want a trade agreement that the Tories are jeopardising" without saying whether he's Remain or soft Brexit.

Now would be a good time for Labour to buy as much mainstream media as possible and shout this and other straightforward
messages to the population. Tory party conference selling baby onesies 'future pm' in Tory blue is unprecedented dumb.
Tories have nothing for most people.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:34 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... trade-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Dreams of quick trade deals with far-flung nations are staggeringly naive. Britain’s continuing success depends on the terms we reach with Europe

Indeed they are.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:35 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Are we, or are we not "better together"?
It's not perfect here but I (for one) like it. A bit like being alive.

Hell, yes.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:42 pm

However Mrs May came under attack from Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon after she said there is "no opt out from Brexit" and we will "never allow divisive nationalists to undermine the precious union between the four nations of our United Kingdom".
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-10- ... t-process/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Oh my lord.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:44 pm

One of the top grammar schools in the country is passing the begging bowl around its parents, as Latymers is feeling the pinch. If you want a master class in bollocks, read the DfE quote at the end of the article. I reckon there's a 21year old Spad with one of those Jargon Generators churning out this shite.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ion-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edited to eliminate autocorrect. New update to OS10 is a pain.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 02 Oct, 2016 7:53 pm

Oops.

NUT ‏@NUTonline 7m7 minutes ago

The Chair of the Conservative Education Society Steve Mastin says he is 'totally opposed' to new grammar schools #edfuture

Is there anyone in favour of this outside of the evidence-resistent right wingers?

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