Monday 10th October 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 4:53 pm

Iain Duncan Smith's called Starmer a 'second rate lawyer' ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:05 pm

Apparently so...I didn't know what Angela Rayner was talking about until I saw Chris Cook's tweet one down to it.

Not sure how anyone who is a QC can be called "second-rate"!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:06 pm

Excuse for a human being opines.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:08 pm

And then...

Mark Elliott ‏@ProfMarkElliott 13m13 minutes ago

Another constitutional nugget from the #Brexit Secretary: "Crown prerogative rests on the will of the people." Making it up as he goes along
35 retweets 27 likes

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:15 pm

Ana Navarro

Dear GOP: Congrats! We nominated a misogynist, racist, vulgar, lying, ignorant, mad man as our nominee. Oh, and he breaths like Darth Vader.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:16 pm

Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP, says he and other Vote Leave campaigners always made it clear that voting to leave the EU would mean giving up single market membership.

The sheer gall is quite staggering. I'm almost lost for words

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:23 pm

Greetings all,

Haven't had time to read the thread - I'll do so later. Just wanted to reply to yahyah.

*waves* @ yahyah

Sorry yahyah, I didn't read the weekend thread until last night by which time you'd already gallivanted off to be a champagne socialist [hope you had a great evening]. I figured I'd wait until today to reply. Was just about to do so when I got a 'distress call' from a friend so I've been with her all afternoon. And I'm now about to dash off out again.........

In answer to your question, I can't think of any 'Green Blogs' as I tend to speak to people at Regional level and get info from them. There was an article in one of the newspapers recently about Green Party policy on a second referendum. I'll try and find it later tonight or tomorrow. Meanwhile below is a link to the Green Party website news page. Mostly just snippets. It might give you some info though. As well as Caroline Lucas, Natalie Bennett or Jonathan Bartley, you might find something relevant by Molly Scott Cato.

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 5:26 pm

Ta muchly Tizme.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:09 pm

So.......the charlatan that is Ian Smith calls Sir Keir Starmer "a second rate lawyer"

Would I would want to be (even if it was true) a "second rate lawyer" or a failed soldier (despite his protestations, listen to his colleagues) a liar (his CV amongst many other examples) or (to use a word with which he is familiar, a scrounger (living off his wifes family)

The guy no self awareness.

David Davis currently trashing his reputation (whether deserved or not) as one of the fair,sensible right wingers. Actually just blamed Labour for the crashing of the pound!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... be-reduced" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Keir Starmer calls for immigration to be reduced

Apologies for being tedious, but is it too much to ask that the opposition ever actually adopt an alternative position to the Tories?
The point is to convince people of an alternative, not just do what the Tories do to "get in".

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:17 pm

Read the article. The title is misleading as is now par for the course at the Graun.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:23 pm

I don't think it's fair blaming Blair's government not imposing advertising bans, centralised regulatory control of food content, labelling and preventing fast food getting consumed. I doubt Blair and the Labour government(s) could've done more than was accomplished given the myriad interests it would've pissed off. I wouldn't mind being wrong. I wouldn't mind a government benefiting the population by preventing harm through greater regulation. Anyway, I'm grateful for the work accomplished by Labour governments when Blair and Brown were PMs.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:26 pm

Yahyah, we're just going to have to disagree on this. What use was anything you listed when New Labour stood by and let the junk food industry walk all over them and stop anything other than the 'light touch' regulation that we all know and love from the banking industry? What use was it when Blair gave academies the green light to let the likes of Coke sponsor schools and sports activities just so that they could advertise and sell their sugary shit to schoolchildren within their schools? The evidence is right here before our very eyes, with obesity a national crisis and type 2 diabetes at epidemic levels. Whatever New Labour did - and it was very, very little - was worthless window dressing.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:41 pm

Theresa May says the ‘liberal elite’ is sneering at those who voted for Brexit. Well, I reserve the right to sneer - The Independent
https://apple.news/ABqbQNghLTHeK9ZIXCRNbpA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 6:52 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Yahyah, we're just going to have to disagree on this. What use was anything you listed when New Labour stood by and let the junk food industry walk all over them and stop anything other than the 'light touch' regulation that we all know and love from the banking industry? What use was it when Blair gave academies the green light to let the likes of Coke sponsor schools and sports activities just so that they could advertise and sell their sugary shit to schoolchildren within their schools? The evidence is right here before our very eyes, with obesity a national crisis and type 2 diabetes at epidemic levels. Whatever New Labour did - and it was very, very little - was worthless window dressing.

At least Labour responded to Jamie Oliver's initiative to improve nutrition in schools. They were willing to try, which is a darn sight more than the Coalition, which rebuffed Oliver completely, refusing to talk to him at all as they merrily skirted the Labour nutrition rules by allowing all their new academies to bypass them.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 7:11 pm

Davis was predictably dreadful, but I am afraid I think Starmer was poor.

So it has become clear that Labour will not be seeking to keep us in the single market(it probably the customs union). The terrible meaningless phrase is"access"to the single market, which is utterly devoid of content. North Korea has access to the single market.

Coupled with Starmer's calls to end freedom of movement, that will give us a terrible deal. Labour's position is just as much a hard Brexit one as the Tories.

It didn't have to be like this. We could, unlike the Lib Dems, have accepted the vote and gone for the EEA option. Labour has rejected that, and instead decided to concentrate on procedure and asking what there government's position is.

Dreadful.

The only part talking sense is there SNP. But I'm English, and they see everything through the lens of independence.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 7:17 pm

Oh yes, the coalition were far, far worse. That doesn't absolve New Labour from being terrible though. Sorry, but this inertia annoys me intensely. The cost to the NHS because of it is and will be astronomical. Type 2 diabetes and the obesity that is so strongly linked to it, leads to a plethora of extremely expensive secondary conditions. And it could all have been prevented. All of it. It's not like we weren't forewarned by what was happening in the USA.

I personally find it tragic that when I look at my school class photo that the only (moderately at that) obese child in it was my friend who was a paraplegic. Look at school photos or visit a beach today and it's the healthy sized kids who are the exception.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 7:34 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37609965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Battle of Orgreave': Police 'had been relishing' clashes

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 7:47 pm

Cutting edge reportage from the Mirror (nb. it really isn't):

Jeremy Corbyn might have picked a new top team but his wardrobe hasn't changed - Mirror Online
https://apple.news/Aer4ehmGcSk6yTOt7iIESxQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fwiw, Iain Duncan Smith is a second rate human being. And that's being extremely generous to him.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 7:51 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Oh yes, the coalition were far, far worse. That doesn't absolve New Labour from being terrible though. Sorry, but this inertia annoys me intensely. The cost to the NHS because of it is and will be astronomical. Type 2 diabetes and the obesity that is so strongly linked to it, leads to a plethora of extremely expensive secondary conditions. And it could all have been prevented. All of it. It's not like we weren't forewarned by what was happening in the USA.

I personally find it tragic that when I look at my school class photo that the only (moderately at that) obese child in it was my friend who was a paraplegic. Look at school photos or visit a beach today and it's the healthy sized kids who are the exception.

I share your dismay at the current state of affairs. I live in an intensely urban West Midlands city. Walking, riding a bike and using
public transportation are literally discouraged by design. The speed limit is ignored by motorists, public transportation is prohibitively
expensive in comparison to the current fiscal costs individual motor vehicle ownership, irrational hatred of people on bikes is expressed
without shame in casual conversation. A child ran into an expanse of green grass and a few trees within the pavement section pedestrians
and everyone not in a motor vehicle use - he left the pavement to run in circles on the grass. The green space was outrageously infinitesimal
in comparison to the space given over to cement, asphalt. We all have to get off the grass and back onto pavement if we wanted to make it to
wherever it is pedestrians and people on bikes go. No wonder everyone is overweight.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 8:06 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37609965

'Battle of Orgreave': Police 'had been relishing' clashes

"...a brutal example of legalised state violence."
- Tristram Hunt
2006

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 8:19 pm

International comparisons of UK productivity (ICP), first estimates: 2015
Office for National Statistics (ONS)
6 October 2016

First estimates for 2015 indicate that output per hour worked in the UK was 18 percentage points below the average for the rest of the
G7 advanced economies; this gap is unchanged compared with last year.

In terms of the output per worker gap, UK productivity remained 19 percentage points below the average for the rest of the G7 in 2015.

Output per hour was lower in all G7 countries in 2015 than would have been the case if pre-downturn trends had continued since 2007.
The UK’s productivity gap of nearly 18 percentage points is the largest in the G7 and is double the average of 9 percentage points across
the rest of the G7.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economic ... mates/2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 8:50 pm

I believe I made this point several times over at CiF before I gave up on that cesspit:

In what world did people voting to leave the EU think that a Tory government guaranteed to be in power for the next 5 years by law would let the people "take back control"?

Do you think it's dawned on any of them yet that they've handed the Tories a dictatorship via the back door? When, do you think, will any of them wake the fuck up and realise what it is that they've done?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 9:19 pm

Shadow Minister for Justice – Christina Rees

Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs (also in Defence team) – Fabian Hamilton

Shadow Minister for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office –Liz McInnes

Shadow Minister for Schools – Mike Kane

Shadow Minister for Flooding and Coastal Communities – Sue Hayman

Shadow Minister for Energy and Climate Change – Alan Whitehead

Shadow Minister for Farming and Rural Communities – Mary Glindon

Shadow Minister for Wales – Gerald Jones

Shadow Minister for Housing – Ruth Cadbury

PPS to Rachael Maskell MP Chris Matheson

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 9:35 pm

UTC will switch to become secondary school at cost of £13m
http://schoolsweek.co.uk/utc-will-switc ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 9:40 pm

Tomlinson suspended for two days.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 9:48 pm

Starmer challenged the language used by the home secretary, Amber Rudd, when she proposed that companies should list the numbers of foreign workers they employ, but said the proposals themselves were neither xenophobic nor silly.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 9:50 pm

Damian Green/Lord Fraud

I would like to update hon. Members on the main item of business undertaken by my Department since the House rose for conference recess.
When people claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) and/or Universal Credit (UC) due to a health condition or disability they are required to take part in Work Capability Assessments (WCA) on an ongoing basis to confirm their eligibility. This includes people with the most severe health conditions or disabilities, even though we already know from their initial WCA, and from healthcare professionals, that, short of medical advances, their condition is unlikely to improve.
On 1 October, I announced that that we will stop reassessing people with the most severe health conditions and disabilities. This change will apply to people who have already been placed in the ESA Support Group or UC Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity categories following a WCA and who have the most severe health conditions and disabilities (defined as claimants with severe, lifelong, often progressive and incurable conditions, with minimally fluctuating care needs, who are unlikely to ever be able to move closer to the labour market and into work). The IT changes needed are expected to be completed by the end of 2017. In the meantime, we will be working to ensure these people are not reassessed unnecessarily.
Over the coming months we will work with key stakeholders, including disabled people, disability charities, our health assessment provider, the Centre for Health and Disability Assessments, medical professionals and others to develop a set of criteria, set out in guidance, to switch off reassessments for those that are eligible.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 10:34 pm

Egads, this headline is a real turn off:

Ministers sense 'strength of passion' aroused for new yacht Britannia ahead of Commons debate - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ah6eWGL0sTnu-iLXIByrt1Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 10:39 pm

In competition with the Daily Sport.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 10:43 pm

There is probably a word for sexual arousement due to yachts.

Post by **adam** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:01 pm

yahyah wrote:Iain Duncan Smith's called Starmer a 'second rate lawyer' ?

He then tried to deny it on C4 News, saying no, he'd said the legal advice he'd provided was second rate. Jon Snow didn't let him get away with that - “Well the record will show you called him a ‘second rate lawyer’.”

IDS looked like a smug stupid grinning shit.

Sorry, was. Not looked like, was.

Post by **adam** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:02 pm

HindleA wrote:There is probably a word for sexual arousement due to yachts.

There's also probably a real word for 'arousement'.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:03 pm

I absolutely give up. No words left.

Pregnant women could be forced to show their passports at hospital before giving birth

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10 ... t-hospita/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:05 pm

John Healey MP ‏@JohnHealey_MP 4h4 hours ago

Sec of State Sajid Javid just told Commons that Land Registry sell-off 'not part of this new Bill, nor will it be part of this Bill'

Only extreme free market loons ever thought this was a good idea.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:08 pm

HindleA wrote:There is probably a word for sexual arousement due to yachts.

The Sex Pistols wrote a little ditty about it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Oct, 2016 11:15 pm

This is worth reading - Dan "wrong about everything" Hannan does it again. Chilean wine this time.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 11 Oct, 2016 12:32 am

Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)

May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement, and urge him to resist the temptation of advice from a second-rate lawyer who does not even understand the parliamentary process?

Mr Davis

With the mild exception of the rudeness about the legal qualifications of the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 11 Oct, 2016 12:44 am

Hannan actually corrects error on Chilean Wine.

Turns out the EU applies a 32% tariff to all New World wine except Chile's. Mea culpa.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 11 Oct, 2016 3:28 am

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... health-day" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Council cuts push specialist housing for vulnerable people into the cold
Charities say 14% fall in spending by councils on supported housing for people with mental health issues is short-sighted and will cost more in the long run

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 11 Oct, 2016 4:21 am

http://europe.newsweek.com/vladimir-put ... 8635?rm=eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DEAR DONALD TRUMP AND VLADIMIR PUTIN, I AM NOT SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL
How the Republican nominee for president pushed Russian propaganda about Benghazi to American voters.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 11 Oct, 2016 6:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... gle-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hard Brexit will cost Treasury up to £66bn a year, ministers are told
Leaked papers suggest leaving EU single market will cause between 5.4% and 9.5% slump in GDP, with massive loss of tax revenue