Friday 28th October 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 3:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Tribunal ruling says that "Uber" workers are entitled to minimum wage, holiday pay and rest breaks.

"Uber" are expected to appeal the decision. (BBC)

Well, that is interesting - and heartening.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 3:25 pm

Bad news if you like Marmite with your Apple.

Apple has increased the prices of its laptop and desktop computers in the UK by hundreds of pounds.

On Thursday, the company unveiled new Macbook Pro laptops, with prices similar to the US after currency conversion and addition of UK VAT.

But the company also increased the prices of its older computer products, including the three-year-old Mac Pro, by hundreds of pounds.

One analyst said consumers should expect further price increases.

"Apple has to recalibrate prices after significant currency fluctuations, and since the EU referendum, UK prices are out of sync with the dollar," said Patrick O'Brien, analyst at the Verdict Retail consultancy.(BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37799235

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 3:28 pm

Keith Vaz has been given a couple of new sub-committee jobs (BBC News). Sorry missed the details and can't find them at the mo. Still, goes to show that you can't keep a good man down.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 3:43 pm

The Labour rebels who didn't back the Yemen vote have blood on their hands.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 3:51 pm

Labour MPs face backlash over failure to vote on Yemen campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"One Labour MP, who is not supportive of the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, but voted for the motion, said he was frustrated and upset that a number of his colleagues were using the issue as a way of trying to beat Jeremy."

Saving Labour Moderates, cos it's moderate to murder children and revolutionary to talk of peace.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 4:22 pm

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Tribunal ruling says that "Uber" workers are entitled to minimum wage, holiday pay and rest breaks.

"Uber" are expected to appeal the decision. (BBC)
I believe the basic test of whether someone is being employed to fulfill a job contract on a self-employed basis is whether that person can supply someone else to actually do the work necessary to fulfill the contract in their place. If this is not allowed by the job contract, they are an employee. At least that is my understanding. User's an interesting test case. I hope we get more detail about the ruling as it could set an important precedent.

My understanding is that it is centrally about control.

So, if Radiohead are contracted to appear at Glastonbury, they aren't employees, even though they cannot substitute another to do the work.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 4:48 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Tribunal ruling says that "Uber" workers are entitled to minimum wage, holiday pay and rest breaks.

"Uber" are expected to appeal the decision. (BBC)
I believe the basic test of whether someone is being employed to fulfill a job contract on a self-employed basis is whether that person can supply someone else to actually do the work necessary to fulfill the contract in their place. If this is not allowed by the job contract, they are an employee. At least that is my understanding. User's an interesting test case. I hope we get more detail about the ruling as it could set an important precedent.

My understanding is that it is centrally about control.

So, if Radiohead are contracted to appear at Glastonbury, they aren't employees, even though they cannot substitute another to do the work.

I'm not sure a rock band is a good comparison. A landscape gardener with a contract to mow school fields would be a better example. A self-employed contractor tenders for the work and is fulfilling the contract regardless of who does the mowing - himself or an employee of his. If the contract is for that specific person to do the mowing, they're an employee not self-employed. It's more complex than that, of course, but substitution is a key difference between self-employed and employee. Whether it's a factor in the Uber case or whether that ruling hinges on something else, I don't know, which is why I'd be interested to hear more details.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 5:09 pm

http://ilegal.org.uk/thread/9265/youngs ... llTo=23316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby Young trashes Ken Loach's film and
gets all his facts wrong

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 5:21 pm

'X-rated' council error sends voters to hardcore porn site

A letter sent to residents urging them to check their eligibility to vote directed them to a hardcore porn website.

The reminder was supposed to direct recipients to a Mid Suffolk District Council website, but the address provided sends users to explicit content.

A resident uncovered the error when he typed the address into his web browser.

The authority said the mistake was "embarrassing". (BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-37797056

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 5:24 pm

Yeah but how did he explain spending half an hour making sure it was wrong?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 5:42 pm

Womble44 wrote:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/re ... -128790447

Oborne's take on the Saudi vote

This bears repeating in case anyone missed it.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:18 pm

gilsey wrote:
Womble44 wrote:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/re ... -128790447

Oborne's take on the Saudi vote
This bears repeating in case anyone missed it.

I was going to share the link to this news when it first broke on Wednesday evening but my comment was 90% swearing so didn't.

From Oborne:

For the past 20 years, the so-called "modernisers", whether Blair’s Labour or Cameron’s Conservatives, have been in charge at Westminster. As has been well-documented (not least by Labour’s Jon Cruddas), they have hollowed out British politics through techniques of spin and electoral manipulation.

It is these same modernisers who have caused havoc in the Middle East, condemning the region to bloodshed and war. They were at it again on Wednesday by sending a signal to the Saudi dictatorship that it was acceptable to carry out its murderous policies in the Yemen. Thirteen years after Iraq, neoconservatism still rules.

You know the worst swear word in the English language? Well, that's what these people are and they're making Labour completely unelectable. If the widely predicted electoral meltdown that they're doing they're damndest to cause does actually happen, I sincerely hope that it is they that all lose their seats at the next election. Every sodding single one of them.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:27 pm

HindleA wrote:http://ilegal.org.uk/thread/9265/youngs ... llTo=23316

Toby Young trashes Ken Loach's film and
gets all his facts wrong

Toby Young doesn't give a fig. Water off a ducks back. He's preaching to his niche market, right wing self-serving gits.

Evening all btw. I've been laid up most of the day, the joys of my first ever migraine. Hopefully the last.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:30 pm

@StephenDolan

I hope that your appearance here signals that you're feeling better now. Assuming that that's the case, long may it continue.

Edited

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:30 pm

Hillary Clinton's private email server under investigation by FBI again

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11 days before the election.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:30 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Toby Young doesn't give a fig. Water off a ducks back. He's preaching to his niche market, right wing self-serving gits.

True. But he also writes for people who aren't Toby Young.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:@StephenDolan

I hope that your appearance here signals that you're feeling better now. Assuming that that's the case, long may it continue.

Edited

Thanks PF, yes it's fading. Hurrah for codeine.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:32 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Hillary Clinton's private email server under investigation by FBI again

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11 days before the election.

Yes, I'm just listening to it. Timing.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:33 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Womble44 wrote:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/re ... -128790447

Oborne's take on the Saudi vote
This bears repeating in case anyone missed it.
I was going to share the link to this news when it first broke on Wednesday evening but my comment was 90% swearing so didn't.

From Oborne:
For the past 20 years, the so-called "modernisers", whether Blair’s Labour or Cameron’s Conservatives, have been in charge at Westminster. As has been well-documented (not least by Labour’s Jon Cruddas), they have hollowed out British politics through techniques of spin and electoral manipulation.
It is these same modernisers who have caused havoc in the Middle East, condemning the region to bloodshed and war. They were at it again on Wednesday by sending a signal to the Saudi dictatorship that it was acceptable to carry out its murderous policies in the Yemen. Thirteen years after Iraq, neoconservatism still rules.
You know the worst swear word in the English language? Well, that's what these people are and they're making Labour completely unelectable. If the widely predicted electoral meltdown that they're doing they're damndest to cause does actually happen, I sincerely hope that it is they that all lose their seats at the next election. Every sodding single one of them.

Evening folks,
Thanks for the link, Johnny. Just read that article and agreed with it completely. It's odd that an unpredictable, libertarian right winger is more often right than half the PLP and certain concern trolls.

Edit: Oops -Thanks to Womble (what happened to the previous 43?)

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:37 pm

Donald Trump informs his wife Melania live on air that she will be doing ‘two or three’ more important speeches - The Independent
https://apple.news/ADKiIw4r3TmueQAI18LZHgA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Michele Obama has been providing some good material recently (the next President we should have had) so I'm sure Melania will be fine despite the surprise.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 6:39 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Edit: Oops -Thanks to Womble (what happened to the previous 43?)

They're wombling along, singing their song?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:12 pm

Just as I was starting to think that we were safe from Donald Trump, at least.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:18 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ken ... 83461.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mark Steel on Toby Young:

This is a story of a man who had a heart attack but is denied disability benefit, and was made following studies of hundreds of cases. But Young isn’t intimidated by that. He derides it as inaccurate liberal nonsense, because “the two protagonists are a far cry from the scroungers on Channel 4’s Benefits Street.”

Exactly. It’s the same reason we shouldn’t take any notice of David Attenborough, with his misleading films about orangutans; the ones he shows are a far cry from the ones in The Jungle Book that want to kidnap a child and learn to make fire.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:19 pm

There should be a programme called “Toby Young Rings True”, in which, to get to the truth, he ignores people who’ve done things. “Tonight I’ll be talking about sailing round the world while telling Ellen MacArthur she’s full of shit, as she’s only done it a couple of times, whereas I thought about it once while having a shave. Next week I’ll be telling Dizzee Rascal and Raheem Sterling what it’s like to be black in modern Britain.”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:31 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 83101.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: brexit-infographic.png (137.26 KiB) Viewed 6814 times

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:33 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 83446.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit and far-right populism across Europe ‘extremely worrying’, says Hitler biographer
'Democracy has deteriorated on every level across the continent since 2014'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 7:52 pm

Three local council byelections yesterday:

Rother DC - two contests here, and with differing outcomes; the first was a Tory hold with a modest increase since last year after polling almost exactly 40 per cent then. Despite returning two Tory councillors in 2011 as well as GE day with fairly comfortable margins, this has never been as safe as several divisions in the area - and Independents shared the spoils with the Tories in both 2007 and 2003. LibDems were the big winners here, increasing by some 15 points to over 30 per cent - a swing of 5-6 points since a year ago and a double figure movement since both a previous 2014 byelection and 2011. Labour third with little change on the previous few elections (though that was enough to get them third as opposed to 5th last year) then the Greens (significantly down) and finally UKIP who came second here in both 2014 and last May, but more than halved and fell to 5th and last now. The other vacancy saw an Independent hold with exactly 60 per cent, up by close to 20 points since last year. Back in 2003 and 2007 this ward had safely returned two Tories, but Independents came from nowhere to snatch both seats in 2011 and reinforced that in an earlier 2014 byelection and held off the Tories on GE day. Tories seem stuck on about 30 per cent here now - Indies gained this time from Greens not standing and squeezing Labour and (especially) UKIP, who got less than 5% which was barely a third of their showing last year (and roughly a quarter of what they managed in 2014)

Denbighshire - Labour hold with close to half the vote, a small dip on 2012 when they got almost exactly 50%. Normally this ward returns two Labour councillors, but Independents were fairly competitive in a straight fight back in 2004 and both Indies and Tories pressed Labour quite hard in 2008 (the leading Independent then was a former Labour councillor) This time round, Tories move from 4th four years ago to runners up with a healthy increase - though they were still outpolled by Labour by over 2 to 1. They were still just outpolled by the votes for both the Independents combined - the first of them was Plaid Cymru candidate here last time (they did not stand in this election) and was slightly down on what he had managed in his different colours then. LibDems last with 6% - over 10% down on when they last stood here in 2008.

A busy week again to begin November - ten contests.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 8:08 pm

Labour rebellion on Saudi bill defied 3-line Party whip to intentionally undermine Corbyn’s leadership

http://evolvepolitics.com/labour-rebell ... eadership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 8:12 pm

Temulkar wrote:Labour rebellion on Saudi bill defied 3-line Party whip to intentionally undermine Corbyn’s leadership

http://evolvepolitics.com/labour-rebell ... eadership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How grown up and principled. I'd be quite happy to see the back of Jeremy Corbyn but not at the expense of other people's lives.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 8:36 pm

You know how governments routinely say they will never do deals with terrorists/kidnappers/etc because it means that more terrorists/kidnappers/etc will start demanding the same and they'll then never be able to stop doing deals... Guess which party has just done the deal. Guess what's happening.

May's Nissan deal opens floodgates as rivals seek Brexit reassurance - Reuters
https://apple.news/Adq3-Zvv9SKOEq8dQ4PurwA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 8:39 pm

If you can stomach him, Simon Jenkins on the same theme:

Nissan got a sweetheart deal. Under hard Brexit, everyone will want one - the guardian
https://apple.news/A6QfJGnLPRm2VGz5RmkyYpA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 9:00 pm

Facebook. Still a completely appalling company.

Facebook Lets Advertisers Exclude Users by Race - Daring Fireball
https://apple.news/AjlKrXdWGNuymORR1AHmkpA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 9:28 pm

http://www.cambstimes.co.uk/news/disabl ... cial_icons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disabled councillor loses seat on Wisbech Town Council for non attendance but she felt ‘degraded and embarrassed’ trying to access council chamber

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 9:56 pm

Oborne's piece is stunning. And spot on. The war industry has through my lifetime been England's greatest shame.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 10:00 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Oborne's piece is stunning. And spot on. The war industry has through my lifetime been England's greatest shame.

Despite a very significant challenge from the financial services sector!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 10:00 pm

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/busi ... 1028116147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 10:53 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Hillary Clinton's private email server under investigation by FBI again

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11 days before the election.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:03 pm

Re that Opposition day debate on Yemen

Looks like its the whips office that needs whipping into shape.

Dozens of Labour MPs were given authorisation from the whips to miss the vote, while many others say they were given indications that attendance on Wednesday afternoon was not paramount, and now feel unfairly targeted. As well as online pressure, several MPs have faced questions from local party members and constituents over the issue because they did not take part in the vote.

http://labourlist.org/2016/10/labour-mp ... emen-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:18 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pe ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pensioners forced to live in shocking conditions with no heating or even toilets, shock report reveals

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:46 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/ ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Draft of John Lennon's protest letter to Queen Elizabeth found in record sleeve

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:51 pm

pk1 wrote:Re that Opposition day debate on Yemen

Looks like its the whips office that needs whipping into shape.

Dozens of Labour MPs were given authorisation from the whips to miss the vote, while many others say they were given indications that attendance on Wednesday afternoon was not paramount, and now feel unfairly targeted. As well as online pressure, several MPs have faced questions from local party members and constituents over the issue because they did not take part in the vote.
http://labourlist.org/2016/10/labour-mp ... emen-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, of course, because when you have to decide whether or not to participate in a vote against a murderous regime you need someone else to tell you whether or not you should be there.

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:57 pm

OK, let's take that article at face value. What these MPs are saying is that the man (and the team around him) they accuse of being so incompetent he's going to cost the Labour Party the next election has just outsmarted them. Again. Again. Again.

And they want us to entrust the running of the Labour Party to them. The people who are constantly outsmarted by a dimwit? Seriously? Ffs.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 28 Oct, 2016 11:59 pm

pk1 wrote:Re that Opposition day debate on Yemen

Looks like its the whips office that needs whipping into shape.

Dozens of Labour MPs were given authorisation from the whips to miss the vote, while many others say they were given indications that attendance on Wednesday afternoon was not paramount, and now feel unfairly targeted. As well as online pressure, several MPs have faced questions from local party members and constituents over the issue because they did not take part in the vote.
http://labourlist.org/2016/10/labour-mp ... emen-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post event justification after the understandable backlash they have faced. It was a three line whip, not a half arsed whipping operation, a three line whip. No source for that quote because it is nonsense that any MP would be given indications that a 3 line whip is 'not paramount'.

It isnt the whips at fault, it is the moral repugnance of the MPs.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:04 am

And may I point out that there is no pairing on a three line whip.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:10 am

What the actual fuck?

Toby Young is named director of government-backed free schools charity

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... ls-charity

Author, journalist and campaigner calls for government to raise its free school target to 750 by 2020

Toby Young, the author, journalist and original poster boy for the free schools movement has been named as the new director of the government-backed charity, New Schools Network (NSN).

Mr Young, who will assume the role in January, said he will use his position at the organisation to call on the government to go further in its ambitions for the free-school programme and demand they open 750 of the schools by 2020.

He's well-known as a fucking liar so he'll fit right in...

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:11 am

"A vote on whether or not we should do something about the Saudis killing civilians with the bombs we're selling them? Yeah, not sure whether or not I should go to that one"

I mean. FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:11 am

Jon Favreau ‏@jonfavs 4h4 hours ago
After a DEFCON 1 freakout, we now know the emails in question were:
1) Not from Hillary
2) Not from her sever
3) Not from her investigation

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:18 am

Yes,,if you read the link I gave above re. Loach film,he asked for advice/info and still wrote lie after lie,total charlatan imho.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:23 am

NonOxCol wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Hillary Clinton's private email server under investigation by FBI again

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11 days before the election.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you know what the worst thing about that Jon Favreau tweet is? The second person to reply to it is Louise Mensch. Why? Can anyone give any rationale for that. At all?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Oct, 2016 12:26 am

Rationale-ha,ha,ha,ha,ha-

Hanging upside down only rational thing I can think of.