Saturday 26th & Sunday 27th November 2016

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 8:30 pm

Might have to watch some Firefly when the rugby's finished.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 8:38 pm

gilsey wrote:Firefly was a pilot series which wasn't taken further, you're unlikely to see it on freeview.
Afterwards the director and cast made a film called Serenity which you may get the opportunity to see, highly recommend it. Bit gruesome mind.

It's all on Netflix, if you have that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 8:57 pm

Care for elderly ‘close to collapse’ across UK as council funding runs out
Theresa May under pressure as doctors urge funding U-turn and cross-party alliance warns millions of people are at risk

Theresa May is under intense pressure from senior doctors and a powerful cross-party alliance of politicians to avert a collapse in care for the elderly, as shocking new figures show the system close to meltdown (Observer)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... o-collapse

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 9:02 pm

See above

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 9:08 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 13a314e332
In assessing Donald Trump’s presidential victory, Americans continue to look away from this election’s most alarming story: the successful effort by a hostile foreign power to manipulate public opinion before the vote.
Just to say - I've never seen (or know anything about) "Firefly". (I assume that's what your strap-line refers to - ie the programme\film (?)). Do you recommend it?

Yes, the quote is from the series Firefly, created by Joss Whedon of Buffy the Vampire fame. It's a sci-fi show, sort of cowboys in space, but much more than that and as others have said, it is very, very good, sadly cut short halfway through the first series. By popular demand Whedon was later able to bring the over-arching plot line of the show to its conclusion in the film Serenity, which is easily the best sci-fi film of recent years as it does what all good sci-fi should do, which is to use the future as an allegory for the present. Some of the themes are pretty political, especially relating to the ways in which governments manipulate and control information. Hence the quote on my Twitter profile from the character Mr Universe, a computer whiz who monitors tv broadcasts:

There is no news. There is only the truth of the signal. What I see. And...there's the puppet theater the Parliament jesters foist on the somnambulant public.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 9:13 pm

"We, being Labour members, Labour voters, and/or your constituents, request that you, as our representatives, commit to to preventing the UK leaving the European Union, and vote in Parliament against triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, on the grounds that: "

https://www.change.org/p/keir-starmer-m ... pean-union" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 10:10 pm

Firefly's great. It might not be as good as Buffy but, frankly, what is?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 10:41 pm

'The idea that parents should pay £500 for state education is nonsense. Teachers will know where to file it'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... chers-will" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 10:47 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:'The idea that parents should pay £500 for state education is nonsense. Teachers will know where to file it'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... chers-will" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The author is someone I follow - seems like a decent bloke and very knowledgeable.

The HT he's talking about...one of our teachers told me that he'd met him on a visit to his school...and the HT is really unpleasant. But he has the government's ear which is all that matters.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 10:58 pm

The New York Times ‏@nytimes 2h2 hours ago
A closer look at Trump's global reach: His companies have operations in at least 20 countries http://nyti.ms/2ghouSX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ocial-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shamefully, the autumn statement said nothing about social care

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 8:41 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Most of Labour's "coalition" would respond positively to some sort of economic populist message IMO.

The problem is the "continuity" Blairites, who are deeply wedded to neoliberalism - and have shown they are prepared to fight such an approach all the way.

Why on earth would anyone rational, as you are, think that the Blairite are in charge of anything the Labour party now does?

The 4.5% lost. Lots of us left. Blair left office in 2008. And yet the soft left still blames the Blairites for what Labour is now doing!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 8:43 am

Some lovely tributes to the gay murdering dictator from the Labour leadership.

"For all his faults..." Indeed.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 9:08 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Some lovely tributes to the gay murdering dictator from the Labour leadership.

"For all his faults..." Indeed.

That unfortunately unhanged south african terrorist was extolling his gratitude and the virtues of Castro too. Disgraceful.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 9:12 am

Morning all. Apologies if posted already but the Telegraph had a nhs/private provision story I couldn't tell if it was a kite flying intended leak?

Drip, drip, the move to a hollowed out NHS continues.

Aside from the tipping point in social care, the subsequent bed blocking, the funding crisis, there is one silver lining. The lack of 'black alerts' indicating that a hospital is in serious trouble Resource wise.

'Health officials have also instructed hospitals to discharge thousands of patients in a bid to reduce record levels of crowding, while managers have been *banned* from declaring “black alerts”.'

Ah.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegr ... risis/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 9:14 am

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Some lovely tributes to the gay murdering dictator from the Labour leadership.

"For all his faults..." Indeed.

That unfortunately unhanged south african terrorist was extolling his gratitude and the virtues of Castro too. Disgraceful.

"For all his faults..."

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 9:20 am

Headline in the Express:

"Farage: I fear for my life"

Aw, poor thing hadn't seen his name in the papers for at least a day...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:33 am

Of course the forecasts are bad: no one has a plan for Brexit

William Keegan (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ad-no-plan

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:34 am

Good morfternoon.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:40 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Some lovely tributes to the gay murdering dictator from the Labour leadership.

"For all his faults..." Indeed.

That unfortunately unhanged south african terrorist was extolling his gratitude and the virtues of Castro too. Disgraceful.

"For all his faults..."

Ah, OK. Just repeat the start of a sentence. That's the plan.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:42 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Headline in the Express:

"Farage: I fear for my life"

He's packing in the booze and fags and becoming a vegan?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:42 am

I will just recall all the right wingers who slobbered over Pinochet rather more than Jez did over Castro yesterday.

The fact is that, unlike Chile in 1973, FC did not start out as a (Stalinist) dictator. To a significant degree, the actions of the US made him that way.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 11:05 am

AngryAsWell wrote:The New York Times ‏@nytimes 2h2 hours ago
A closer look at Trump's global reach: His companies have operations in at least 20 countries http://nyti.ms/2ghouSX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very long article, it took me a while to get through it. He's not just bordering on megalomania, he's the full dictionary definition of the word. Very concerning.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 11:12 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I will just recall all the right wingers who slobbered over Pinochet rather more than Jez did over Castro yesterday.

The fact is that, unlike Chile in 1973, FC did not start out as a (Stalinist) dictator. To a significant degree, the actions of the US made him that way.

Look over there at all those other bad people.

The US made him kill gay people? Really?

"For all his faults..."

People like Corbyn and Livingstone have lost their moral compass.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 11:49 am

I have no interest in apologising for the bad things Castro did, my point is that plenty of those shouting the loudest about his perfidy are in their own way just as blind as Jez - or worse.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:03 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... mp/480771/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DONALD TRUMP : Narcissism, disagreeableness, grandiosity—a psychologist investigates how Trump’s extraordinary personality might shape his possible presidency.

Another long read, but very interesting, using basic personality traits to compare various presidents and to try to interpret what kind of president Trump might be, although clearly there are a lot of unknowns (both known unknowns and unknown unknowns, presumably

). Worth a look if you have some time on your hands, especially some of the historical stuff, which I was unfamiliar with and some insights into American voters which was a handy reminder that Republicans in general, especially the fundamental Christian ones, have always been a bit nutty from a European perspective.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:26 pm

Willow904 wrote:There is no news. There is only the truth of the signal.

(cJA edit)

Good-afternoon, everyone.

Brilliant quote

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:51 pm

Rees-Mogg’s ancestral home benefits from £7.6m state rescue
Stern critic of chancellor welcomes Wentworth Woodhouse ‘gimmick’

https://www.ft.com/content/d5efd3a0-b32 ... a01f1b0fa1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Not strictly true, it's his wife's connection, not his - but still.... )

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:56 pm

Reasons2Remain
‏@Reasons2Remain
PM @Theresa_May was outfoxed when a constituent challenged her on #Brexit. Must-read account, please share: http://goo.gl/iXyd1z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:57 pm

Well, I'm shocked that this has happened...

Adam Bienkov Verified account
‏@AdamBienkov

Nigel Farage says he's cancelled his Supreme Court rally because: "I don't think this is the right time to have marches and protests" #LBC

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:01 pm

Second EU Referendum Still An Option For Labour, Labour’s Emily Thornberry Hints
Door left open to new vote

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... 3ager0be29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can Labour send out any more mixed messages in one week ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:12 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well, I'm shocked that this has happened...

Adam Bienkov Verified account
‏@AdamBienkov

Nigel Farage says he's cancelled his Supreme Court rally because: "I don't think this is the right time to have marches and protests" #LBC

I suspect he's been advised that there will be trouble and he wishes to appear to distance himself from it. Then, having stirred up aforementioned trouble, he will come forward with some "pacific" and "statesmanlike" speech or another which will, in itself, contain veiled threats, and say how he "understands" the feelings of any trouble makers (although I don't expect that there will be all that many of them) although he deplores etc etc.

Am I turning into a conspiricacy theorist, d'you reckon?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Second EU Referendum Still An Option For Labour, Labour’s Emily Thornberry Hints
Door left open to new vote

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... 3ager0be29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can Labour send out any more mixed messages in one week ?

A good thing surely?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:21 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Second EU Referendum Still An Option For Labour, Labour’s Emily Thornberry Hints
Door left open to new vote

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... 3ager0be29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can Labour send out any more mixed messages in one week ?
A good thing surely?

A very good thing, but considering Tom Watson ramble earlier in the week about "Brexit deniers" that made me (almost) leave Labour, I can honestly say I still have no idea at all what the official Labour position is.
Do I stay or do I go.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:26 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Headline in the Express:

"Farage: I fear for my life"
He's packing in the booze and fags and becoming a vegan?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:27 pm

Gary Lineker
‏@CaryLineker
Those criticising Castro need to remember we've lived under a capitalist dictatorship in the UK for the past 40 years. #Peston

(Can't delete but its not The Gary..Sorry about that should have checked properly )

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:36 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Gary Lineker
‏@CaryLineker
Those criticising Castro need to remember we've lived under a capitalist dictatorship in the UK for the past 40 years. #Peston

Cary Lineker?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:40 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Gary Lineker
‏@CaryLineker
Those criticising Castro need to remember we've lived under a capitalist dictatorship in the UK for the past 40 years. #Peston
Cary Lineker?

I've just seen that and was on way back to delete - thanks

Post by **refitman** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:51 pm

AngryAsWell wrote: I've just seen that and was on way back to delete - thanks

I won't delete it, as there are now nested replies, but I have 'crossed out' the original post.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 1:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I will just recall all the right wingers who slobbered over Pinochet rather more than Jez did over Castro yesterday.

The fact is that, unlike Chile in 1973, FC did not start out as a (Stalinist) dictator. To a significant degree, the actions of the US made him that way.

He wasn't even a Marxist when he started his campaign against Batista.

An old friend of my husband has spent most of the last year working and living in Cuba.
Yes he's a left winger, and involved in the arts so is open minded, but he has really positive things to tell us in his emails.

He's had experience of living in other South American countries and has found that in comparison Cuba takes care of its people. Take things like hurricane safety alerts. Everyone is well organised, people drilled and co-operative and that helps reduce loss of life.
There's an emphasis on the arts and books for all, which is why he's been working there. Same with medical care. He's heard a lot of stories from old people who remember life before Castro and it wasn't exactly a haven of freedom then. He's been living with and working with Cuban people so has experienced much more than the tourist side of things.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 2:09 pm

Thanks refitman

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 2:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... cup-of-tea" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The psychology behind a nice cup of tea

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 2:45 pm

The challenge of how to make Britain “a country that works for everyone” after Brexit is keeping Theresa May awake at night...

The prime minister said: “It is a moment of change. It is a hugely challenging time. And we need to get on with the deal in terms of
Brexit. And I’m very conscious of that. I want to make sure that everything we do ensures Britain is a country that works for everyone.
And that we really get out there and forge a new role in the world post-Brexit. We can make a success of it, we will make a success of it.
But these are really complex issues.”

- Brexit keeps me awake at night, says Theresa May

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd risk the disapprobation of pro-Brexit Tory MPs and pro-Brexit voters. The negatives of the UK going forward with 'Brexit' outweigh any
domestic or international benefit by 'Brexiting', in my opinion. There may be things I don't know about the legality and legitimacy of the
EU referendum and the pressures its result have produced. I don't understand this precipice.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 2:54 pm

I bet there's nothing that would keep Donald Trump awake at night.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:07 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Second EU Referendum Still An Option For Labour, Labour’s Emily Thornberry Hints
Door left open to new vote

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... 3ager0be29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can Labour send out any more mixed messages in one week ?
A good thing surely?
A very good thing, but considering Tom Watson ramble earlier in the week about "Brexit deniers" that made me (almost) leave Labour, I can honestly say I still have no idea at all what the official Labour position is.
Do I stay or do I go.

That's because the party *is* split, and there's not much point pretending otherwise.

I remain optimistic that there will be a reasonably sensible position most of the party can get behind in the end, so for that reason alone you (and others) should stay.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:10 pm

Chance of an 'orderly' Brexit within two years is less than 50% – peer

UK’s most experienced EU negotiator Lord Kerr warns of a decade of uncertainty should cliff-edge scenario materialise (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -lord-kerr

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:15 pm

Poor old Nigel Farage struggles to take back control in LBC phone-in
John Crace

Ukip boss obligingly does his country a favour by standing in for Katie Hopkins but callers spoil his fun with inconvenient facts

It would be funny were it not true.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ics-sketch

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:A good thing surely?
A very good thing, but considering Tom Watson ramble earlier in the week about "Brexit deniers" that made me (almost) leave Labour, I can honestly say I still have no idea at all what the official Labour position is.
Do I stay or do I go.
That's because the party *is* split, and there's not much point pretending otherwise.

I remain optimistic that there will be a reasonably sensible position most of the party can get behind in the end, so for that reason alone you (and others) should stay.

hear hear

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 3:59 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: A good thing surely?
A very good thing, but considering Tom Watson ramble earlier in the week about "Brexit deniers" that made me (almost) leave Labour, I can honestly say I still have no idea at all what the official Labour position is.
Do I stay or do I go.
That's because the party *is* split, and there's not much point pretending otherwise.

I remain optimistic that there will be a reasonably sensible position most of the party can get behind in the end, so for that reason alone you (and others) should stay.

"In the end"

Unfortunately, the end is now.

And Corbyn won the leadership election.

So I'll have to vote elsewhere (Green).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 4:02 pm

Although the conflict-of-interest clauses do have a loophole for presidents, there is no such loophole for the “emoluments clause”,
Article 1, Section 9 of the constitution, which prohibits public officials from taking payments "of any kind whatever from any king,
prince or foreign state."

Norman Eisen, a former ethics counsellor to the Obama administration [now a fellow at the Brookings Institution]...“The most
fundamental conflict clause in the US constitution is the prohibition on emoluments on payments, presents or other things of
value being given to American political officials including the president. Because of [Trump’s] international investments he
gets these payments, presents and things of value and he’ll be in violation of the constitution by the moment he takes the
oath of office.”

Richard Painter, George W Bush’s chief ethics counsel, agrees that without a major reconfiguration of the Trump Organisation,
the president-elect is heading for a constitutional collision with the electoral college. “The important thing for the electoral
college is to ensure that he technically complies with the constitution,” Painter told the Observer.

Under the constitution, on 8 November Americans chose electors, usually party officials, to represent their states in
the electoral college. It is now up to those 538 electors to choose the president, when the college votes on 19 December.

Eisen and Painter urged the Trump transition team to take urgent steps to address the problem, before it triggers a constitutional
crisis. They recommended he sells all his business holdings and put the proceeds in a blind trust, the composition of which would
remain unknown to him, as his predecessors have done for the past four decades. Painter offered his advice to the Trump circle as
a fellow Republican, but has not received any response.

- ‘A recipe for scandal’: Trump conflicts of interest point to constitutional crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nal-crisis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;