Wednesday 30th November 2016

Post by **refitman** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 7:21 am

Good morfternoon.

Further to HindleA's posts from last night -

No evidence welfare sanctions work, says National Audit Office

Government has failed to measure whether sanctions represent value for money, while application varies widely, find auditors (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... onal-audit

Edited to add an "s"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 7:57 am

Morning all.

Good of Webb on Today to have an advert for Phillip Morris and the consumption of tobacco in general.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:02 am

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two-wheel takeover: bikes outnumber cars for the first time in Copenhagen
Denmark’s capital has reached a milestone in its journey to become a cycling city – there are now more bikes than cars on the streets. Can other cities follow?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:15 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apprentice nurses could treat hospital patients in bid to tackle shortages
Health secretary Jeremy Hunt to announce plan to allow student nurses to train on the job rather than having to complete a university degree

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... om-balcony" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Airbnb denies liability after guests plunge two storeys from balcony
Four friends who had to undergo extensive hospital treatment threatening legal action after incident at Brighton flat

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:47 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No country for old men and women, nor for children – shortcomings in UK care

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:59 am

Link to Parliament Live coverage,plenty going on eg..Education Select Committee,referred by Roger,Green in front of DWP Select,Homeless Reduction Bill.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:20 am

Morning all.

Flippin' cold here - in fact the frost started so early I had to scrape the windows before I went to do locking up at the church last night.

Yes, I will be seated in front of the screen at 9:45 - big bucket of popcorn at my side.

As I said last night, bit of a coincidence that the academies report for 2014/5 was published late yesterday afternoon.

I;m sure Suella will ask some awkward questions like this:

"I think everything's going really well. Don't you agree Lord Nash?"
"Yes Suella, I agree."
"So we're all agreed then? Good. Are we done here?"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:30 am

Good-morning, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:52 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tress-test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RBS fails Bank of England stress test
Taxpayer-backed bank unveils plan to bolster its capital by £2bn after faltering in annual health check of UK banking system

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:29 am

http://paullewismoney.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... ck-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GOVERNMENT LEAVES CARERS STUCK IN BENEFITS TRAP

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:55 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Further to HindleA's posts from last night -

No evidence welfare sanctions work, says National Audit Office

Government has failed to measure whether sanctions represent value for money, while application varies widely, find auditors (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... onal-audit
Edited to add an "s"

It depends what you mean by 'work'. I'd say sanctions do work up to a point, because many, many people will take any job at all to avoid having to sign on, hence the continuing rise in employment. The intention is to make it harder to claim, to create 'ordeals' in the system.
There are still people who can't get work because of their personal circumstances or location, for them it's brutal and the govt don't care.
I'd say they've succeeded in moving the point at which taking a job, any job, is worthwhile. Good news for Sports Direct and Amazon, to name but two.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:06 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Further to HindleA's posts from last night -

No evidence welfare sanctions work, says National Audit Office

Government has failed to measure whether sanctions represent value for money, while application varies widely, find auditors (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... onal-audit

Evidence? That's just so 20th century.

Post by **adam** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:09 am

It’s an old trick: the powerful encourage the less powerful to vent their rage against those who might have been their allies, and to delude themselves into thinking that they have been liberated. It costs the powerful nothing; it pays frightful dividends.

From the very good long read at the Graun - Political correctness: how the right invented a phantom enemy

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:21 am

adam wrote:
It’s an old trick: the powerful encourage the less powerful to vent their rage against those who might have been their allies, and to delude themselves into thinking that they have been liberated. It costs the powerful nothing; it pays frightful dividends.
From the very good long read at the Graun - Political correctness: how the right invented a phantom enemy

A sign of the times that comments have not been enabled on this piece.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:46 am

So-so session of the edu select committee re academies. Nash tried to give local authorities a good kicking and called their audit of schools "light touch" when in fact it's just not as extensive since we don't hold full accounts - just deal with income and expenditure.

The one on area reviews of FE though - the DfE got a right kicking on those. The three panellists didn't seem to think the government had really any idea what they were for when they set them up and were entirely the wrong focus. Oh, and the area reviews were about 8 months late and appeared (surprise!) just the other day.

Funny that - select committee on Wednesday and two long awaited documents suddenly get published.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 12:33 pm

Ah, that explains it...

Tim Coulson congratulated three grammar schools in his are for being in the Sunday Times top 250 schools. None of them are academies though.

And surprise! A question on grammars at PMQs!

Well...civil servants get told what to do I guess...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 12:47 pm

Anything of interest at PMQs today?

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 1:05 pm

Yeah, Corbyn brought up the economic failures of this Government and May talked about some squirrels

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 1:22 pm

Corbyn got his acronyms a bit mixed up, apparently.

Needless to say, some VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE think that this is TERRIBLY IMPORTANT.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 1:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn got his acronyms a bit mixed up, apparently.

Needless to say, some VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE think that this is TERRIBLY IMPORTANT.

Is that what's happening on the Facebook?

I noticed that Labour are still questioning the future triple lock pension plans. It's a good line to take.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 3:17 pm

Oil prices rising today, that'll play havoc on the forecourts when it (rapidly) filters through.

It's a good time to have an electric car, avoid this stress.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 4:03 pm

Eight local council byelections last week:

Pendle DC - Tory gain from Labour in a ward where they had also took from Labour this May - since then there was actually a tiny pro-Labour swing as both parties gained significantly, the Tories surely being aided by the absence of a UKIP candidate this time round. This council has many electoral quirks (including the last BNP councillor elected anywhere at principal level) and this ward is no exception - a safe Tory division from when it elected three Tory councillors in the 2002 all-outs until the 2010 GE, it then swung markedly to Labour and they won it at all elections between 2011 and 2015 though never by big margins as the Tories remained competitive (reportedly this is due to Labour mobilising a previously apathetic non-white vote, and the recent Tory successes are through increasing their support there) LibDems came second here in 2006, but dropped to just 2 per cent now; actually still a bit higher than 2014 when they had the indignity of finishing behind perennial wooden spoonists TUSC.

Mansfield DC - Labour hold, but they were run fairly close by an Independent in a ward where they polled over 70 per cent in a straight fight with the Mansfield Independents last year (also very safe in 2011, when this council had all out elections with new boundaries comprising solely of single member divisions) the present Independent (not connected with the previously mentioned group) is apparently a well known local figure for their organ donation campaigning and took 35% of the vote to reduce Labour's share to under half. UKIP and Tories stood here for the first time under the present arrangements, the former getting the lion's share of the "also-ran" vote with 12%.

Tandridge DC - LibDem hold with a double figure increase and over half the vote, consolidating their hold here after they took both the councillors here after gaining the Tory seat in May. This has a more interesting electoral history than many Surrey true blue divisions - Labour were once competitive here but last won in 2004, four years later the winner then stood as an Independent (narrowly losing to the Tories) and their vote collapsed and has never really recovered. LibDem first won here in 2003, and alternated victories with the Tories until the pattern was finally broken earlier this year. Tories actually held their vote from then, and UKIP slightly increased in third place; Labour were the main losers from the LibDem advance, their share halved to less than 7 per cent.

Basingstoke and Deane DC - Tory hold in this normally very safe ward which returned two members for them in 2008 all-out elections and has not troubled them since, this time however a swing of some 15% to the LibDems at least made things competitive and reduced the Tory share to a shade under half as they polled some 35%. Labour managed to come second here (very distantly) in 2011 but dropped by 7 per cent compared with this May, UKIP last with 4%, down on their only previous showing here in 2011.

Eastbourne DC - Tory hold, and even if not a gain maybe their best result of this bunch as they increased by fully 23 per cent since last year to close to two thirds of the vote - a significant part of this is the (surprising) absence of UKIP, who came second here then and ran the Tories close in the identical E Sussex CC division in 2013, but it is impressive nonetheless. LibDems won all three seats here in 2007 (when this council moved to all-out elections having previously elected by thirds) and came close in the 2009 CC poll but have been in retreat ever since, and were only able to manage a small increase on 2015 despite the UKIP absence. Labour last with some 8%, little changed.

South Somerset DC - Tory hold with just over half the vote, withstanding a 6% swing to the LibDems since last year in a keenly fought contest (a LibDem gain would have given them an overall majority again on this council, which was a stronghold at local as well as parliamentary level before the trauma that was GE day) Had the LibDems won it would have been a first here - an Independent won in 2003 and 2007 (unopposed on the former occasion) before their retirement in 2011, when Tories triumphed over LibDems in a straight fight and strengthened their grip come 2015. Labour the also rans with slightly over 8%, a touch higher than a year ago.

Carlisle DC - Labour hold in a ward that voted in a by-election only this September; this follows previous by-elections here in (wait for it) 2014, 2012 (at Cumbria CC level, where the division was identical) 2009, 2007 (again for the CC) 2005 and 2001!! Given this council also elects by thirds, there is a possibility at least some voters here have had more opportunities this millennium to exercise their democratic rights than any other part of the UK - though elections are a thoroughly good thing of course, it is maybe not surprising that voter fatigue meant a notably low turnout this time around. All these votes also make out a clear electoral history - LibDem in every election between 1999 and 2010 (a Labour win in the first by-election excluded) Labour since they made their fateful decision to go into coalition. This time was no different, Labour taking close to half the vote (up on ten weeks ago, little changed since this May) a clear swing to them since 2015 and 2014 but a modest move against since May 2012. Second placed Tories little changed since September but slightly up since May, third placed UKIP slightly down on both, LibDems dropping to a new low of 7% not far ahead of the Greens who slightly advanced.

Newcastle upon Tyne - Labour hold in, remarkably, another ward which last had a by-election this September. The electoral history is not totally dissimilar, either - a long time strong area for the LibDems which has since gone Labour (though the switch-over came slightly earlier in this case - on GE day in 2010 rather than afterwards) By 2015 and May this year this ward had gone safely Labour with the LibDems languishing in third behind UKIP, but a young "local campaigner" very much in the pavement politics tradition both locally and nationally got a big swing to the LibDems this autumn and went even closer now - their 39% was enough to move within 5 per cent of Labour despite the latter actually slightly increasing their share on ten weeks ago. This is explainable by UKIP vacating the field now, though the gap was partly filled by the localist Newcastle First group who polled third with 8% - narrowly ahead of the Tories who were little changed on recent contests but 4% down on 2015 and 2014.

Six contests this week - one of which has already happened, the rest tomorrow.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 6:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anything of interest at PMQs today?

May is getting some grief from the Sikh community (and probably others) for comments about people not being able to discuss Christmas at work.

Anyone got more depth on this one? It sounds like a barely inaudible dog whistle.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 6:36 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anything of interest at PMQs today?
May is getting some grief from the Sikh community (and probably others) for comments about people not being able to discuss Christmas at work.

Anyone got more depth on this one? It sounds like a barely inaudible dog whistle.

Sounds like a load of old cobblers. And I'm not making this up.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 6:40 pm

I thought (wrongly, as it now transpires) that at least Theresa May would be fairly sensible and thus the best of a very bad bunch of leadership "likelies".

Edited - typo

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 6:42 pm

It's this:

Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)

Q5. Comments this week by the equalities commissioners about not being worried about talking about Christmas at work were important, because many Christians are now worried, even fearful, about mentioning their faith in public. Will the Prime Minister therefore join me in welcoming the recent Lawyers’ Christian Fellowship publication “Speak Up!”, which confirms that in our country the legal rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech to speak about one’s faith responsibly, respectfully and without fear are as strong today as ever? [907568]

The Prime Minister

My hon. Friend raises an important issue which matters both to her and me. I think the phrase that was used by the Lawyers’ Christian Fellowship was “the jealously guarded principle” of that ability to speak freely, as she says, respectfully and responsibly about one’s religion. I am happy to welcome the publication of this report and its findings. Of course, we are now into the season of Advent. We have a very strong tradition in this country of religious tolerance and freedom of speech, and our Christian heritage is something we can all be proud of. I am sure we would all want to ensure that people at work do feel able to speak about their faith, and also feel able to speak quite freely about Christmas.

Usual unsubstantiated hearsay.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 7:05 pm

The playoffs for the World Chess Championship have just started. Anybody else here keeping an eye on them?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 7:48 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/ ... eaker-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:01 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:04 pm

Will it reach Armageddon?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:07 pm

The religious beliefs things seems to link back to this

http://www.respublica.org.uk/press-cent ... s-release/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

haven't read it yet.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:18 pm

The start of the press release doesn't give much confidence:

Religious freedoms in everyday life such as bans on crosses and headscarves are being eroded in modern Britain and need to be enshrined in law to help create a better society, a report by the independent think tank ResPublica has found.

Doesn't make sense does it?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:21 pm

Note 1.

In October 2006 Nadia Eweida was told to cover up a Christian cross by her employer British Airways and was suspended when she refused. Eventually, after interventions by then Prime Minister Tony Blair and others, the company said it would allow religious symbols on a chain. Ms Eweida was also awarded damages by the European Court of Human Rights.

No irony here then....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:29 pm

Drew first of four rapid rounds(25 m),Karjakin playing slower than Carlsen.Possible five blitz rounds (5m)if still level,then naked arm wrestle decider.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:39 pm

More than 150 Labour defy Jeremy Corbyn and vote against new Iraq inquiry into Tony Blair 'misleading' parliament

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11 ... e-towards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lucy Powell MPVerified account
‏@LucyMPowell
Get facts right @Telegraph - Jeremy & the Shadow Cabinet decided that we should vote against & imposed a 3-line whip

Jess Phillips MP ‏@jessphillips 5m5 minutes ago

This article is full of lies, Jeremy whipped us to vote against

Fake news or post truth...?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:44 pm

James Melville ‏@JamesMelville 6h6 hours ago
It's time to replace false phrases with correct meanings:

Post-truth = lying
Alt-right = white supremacists
Brexit means Brexit = no idea

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:49 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:More than 150 Labour defy Jeremy Corbyn and vote against new Iraq inquiry into Tony Blair 'misleading' parliament

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11 ... e-towards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lucy Powell MPVerified account
‏@LucyMPowell
Get facts right @Telegraph - Jeremy & the Shadow Cabinet decided that we should vote against & imposed a 3-line whip

Jess Phillips MP ‏@jessphillips 5m5 minutes ago

This article is full of lies, Jeremy whipped us to vote against

Fake news or post truth...?

Great that JC followed his own whip and voted against.

It would have been laughable if instead he'd just bunked off and abstained.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:52 pm

Carlsen looking strong in second.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 8:58 pm

Very Brexit Problems ‏@SoVeryBrexit 6h6 hours ago
But "mean's" does not mean means.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol!:

...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:03 pm

Sky News
Boris Johnson told at least 4 ambassadors that he supports free movement of people.

*face palm....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:10 pm

Sky News
"Is this post reality politics?"
(To Clegg about Boris FoM comments)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:22 pm

But drawn.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:37 pm

SpinningHugo wrote: Great that JC followed his own whip and voted against.

It would have been laughable if instead he'd just bunked off and abstained.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:40 pm

Carlsen should have won that one,has the initiative swung the other way,will Putin enter on horseback.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 9:57 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... -long-game" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

remainers-aim-beat-brexit-playing-long-game

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:31 pm

Carlsen wins third,K ran out of time.only needs a draw in next.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:36 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... o-continue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cold weather in England and Wales set to continue

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:27 pm

K took six minutes on his last move,Carlsen nearly there.